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https://twitter.com/bbcweather/status/1557445940876820483?t=oIAyta7gPE0Hg7TmoujnTQ&s=19 https://twitter.com/soyunfalton/status/1557666306958266368?t=dWAaVsSqF3KGRveJMnzdWA&s=19
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Aug 11, 2022 23:41
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so what youre saying is that beavers are the key to solving climate change
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Aug 11, 2022 23:43
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thanks for reminding me that the cspam shooter guy immediately went home afterwards and started posting about some beaver sim city game
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Aug 12, 2022 00:14
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Sherbert Hoover posted:thanks for reminding me that the cspam shooter guy immediately went home afterwards and started posting about some beaver sim city game Oh yeah, been meaning to check that one out.
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Aug 12, 2022 00:55
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Real hurthling! posted:we were talking about tacitus' writing ,i usually only say principate for augustus' rule tho some consider the term to mean the first 250 years of empire apparently Oh that's interesting, I've only seen it used to refer to the Augustus - Diocletian period. Wasn't it the primary title used to distinguish who was emperor? Why just for Augustus? Archduke Frantz Fanon posted:i've hear people in c-spam call some odd things lib-brained but claiming that referring to the prinicpate onward as the imperial era is such is one of the wilder ones It's because liberals think a republic (probably their favourite state structure) can't be an empire. Shakespeare for instance had no such illusions. Antony & Cleopatra "Let Rome in Tiber melt, and the wide arch Of the ranged empire fall!" Admittedly this is set right at the end of the republican period so I guess you could argue he just starts the imperial era earlier.
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Aug 12, 2022 01:13
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sulla was basically the nail in the coffin but stuff can take a generation or so to really play out ya know, like right now probably doesn't feel like the terminal decline of the united states, but it'll be more obvious when the zoomers are old
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Aug 12, 2022 01:21
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i always figured it officially became an empire after the senate ceased to be able to check whoever was in power (whatever their title), not just affect contenders vying for power themselves or effecting power in areas the person in charge didn't control. that is, governing parts of the empire is a big deal and is actual power but if they couldn't stop the guy in charge from doing something they really, really, really didn't want to happen, well that's when it's officially an empire
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Aug 12, 2022 01:46
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Sherbert Hoover posted:thanks for reminding me that the cspam shooter guy immediately went home afterwards and started posting about some beaver sim city game lol
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Aug 12, 2022 01:49
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Azathoth posted:i always figured it officially became an empire after the senate ceased to be able to check whoever was in power (whatever their title), not just affect contenders vying for power themselves or effecting power in areas the person in charge didn't control. that is, governing parts of the empire is a big deal and is actual power but if they couldn't stop the guy in charge from doing something they really, really, really didn't want to happen, well that's when it's officially an empire the extent to which the senate could stop an emperor from doing things was pretty fuzzy and depended immensely on the emperor. roman historians were in general not privy to the moments where the senate might have said "no, gently caress you" to an emperor in private, only when they did it in public for folks like nero and maximinus thrax. i think it's pretty safe to say augustus had them tamed as he essentially picked an entire new senatorial class himself after the civil wars completely destroyed the old aristocracy, but there are really a lot of emperors who faced significant public pushback from the senate, which implies to me that almost all of them pre-crisis faced private challenges from it. this is admittedly a revisionist view of things compared to the traditional great man narratives that we received from imperial historians but there are just too many weird moments in the history of the principate where the senate "suddenly" is really important for me to be very content with viewing them as a rubber stamp for the emperor
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Aug 12, 2022 02:01
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Jazerus posted:the extent to which the senate could stop an emperor from doing things was pretty fuzzy and depended immensely on the emperor. roman historians were in general not privy to the moments where the senate might have said "no, gently caress you" to an emperor in private, only when they did it in public for folks like nero and maximinus thrax. i think it's pretty safe to say augustus had them tamed as he essentially picked an entire new senatorial class himself after the civil wars completely destroyed the old aristocracy, but there are really a lot of emperors who faced significant public pushback from the senate, which implies to me that almost all of them pre-crisis faced private challenges from it. that makes sense to me as a layman, and it's naturally gonna be fuzzy does as well. like, the day after the last time the senate exercised said blocking power will not be the moment the senate lost said power, nor was the power lost the day before the first time we see the senate try to gently caress with an emperor and get shut down.
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Aug 12, 2022 02:28
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Riot Bimbo posted:sulla was basically the nail in the coffin but stuff can take a generation or so to really play out ya know, like right now probably doesn't feel like the terminal decline of the united states, but it'll be more obvious when the zoomers are old the mike duncan book makes the case that most roman law was just norms so it became a giant game of political brinkmanship between the patricians and reformers all using One Weird Procedural Trick against their enemies so nobody really knew how hosed the republic was until marius and sulla started promulgating dueling death lists
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Aug 12, 2022 02:41
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Y'all are missing the point and thinking an empire needs to be a monarchy. Consider the phrase "the American empire". Whether or not you think it is an empire, it's a coherent concept. An empire is a collection of polities ruled by a central government, maybe with an element of unwillingness. I do agree with people's claims that senate continued to exercise significant power under the emperors, which is the general historical rule for monarchies. I'm not overly familiar with the history of the french absolute monarchy but I'd put money on the nobility exercising significant power then and absolute monarchies are exceedingly rare.
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Aug 12, 2022 05:27
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Bro Dad posted:the mike duncan book makes the case that most roman law was just norms so it became a giant game of political brinkmanship between the patricians and reformers all using One Weird Procedural Trick against their enemies when the senator paid a pleb family for an adoption and then bought the tribunate election to allow optimate laws to pass unblocked it must have felt a lot like being a modern cspamer to the politics addicts of the time
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Aug 12, 2022 05:37
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Weka posted:Y'all are missing the point and thinking an empire needs to be a monarchy. Consider the phrase "the American empire". Whether or not you think it is an empire, it's a coherent concept. An empire is a collection of polities ruled by a central government, maybe with an element of unwillingness. your original point was that terming the period of time after augustus's creation of the permanent imperator office "imperial" was "terminally lib-brained" and all i have to tell you is that for centuries people have viewed this as the point when the "republic" ended and the "empire" began because there is a perception that augustus and his successors were monarchs, thus making it an empire rather than a republic that does imperialism the traditional nomenclature doesn't jive with the modern, more considered definition of empire that you laid out in this post, nor with the idea that "emperor" was really just a chief executive title stapled onto the republican government which didn't fundamentally change for two centuries afterward apart from having this title stapled onto it, but it is extremely common and predates anyone on the planet being "lib-brained". in truth the roman empire in the modern sense of empire begins in earnest after the second punic war, and depending on how you view the italian city-states it could be said to pre-date any reliable history about rome as roman conquest of surrounding polities began during the kingdom
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Aug 12, 2022 05:43
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the era after this convo is known as the dumbinate
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Aug 12, 2022 05:55
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Does anyone but the argument that Byzantine had vestigial organs of a Republic?
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Aug 12, 2022 06:00
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Weka posted:Y'all are missing the point and thinking an empire needs to be a monarchy. Consider the phrase "the American empire". Whether or not you think it is an empire, it's a coherent concept. An empire is a collection of polities ruled by a central government, maybe with an element of unwillingness. when discussing ancient rome, "empire" in this sense literally means "had an emperor"
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Aug 12, 2022 06:03
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War and Pieces posted:Does anyone but the argument that Byzantine had vestigial organs of a Republic?
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Aug 12, 2022 06:04
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Sherbert Hoover posted:when discussing ancient rome, "empire" in this sense literally means "had an emperor" 
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Aug 12, 2022 06:06
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Weka posted:Y'all are missing the point and thinking an empire needs to be a monarchy. Consider the phrase "the American empire". Whether or not you think it is an empire, it's a coherent concept. An empire is a collection of polities ruled by a central government, maybe with an element of unwillingness.
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Aug 12, 2022 06:40
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Weka posted:It's not gay to gently caress another man. It's only "gay" to be hosed by another guy. You never want to be in the subordinate position, but being in the superordinate position you could gently caress whatever you wanted. Where you fell between those positions was very dependent on your social standing.
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Aug 12, 2022 07:19
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Real hurthling! posted:when the senator paid a pleb family for an adoption and then bought the tribunate election to allow optimate laws to pass unblocked it must have felt a lot like being a modern cspamer to the politics addicts of the time that guy (p clodius pulcher) had massive cspam energy
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Aug 12, 2022 07:29
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Real hurthling! posted:when the senator paid a pleb family for an adoption and then bought the tribunate election to allow optimate laws to pass unblocked it must have felt a lot like being a modern cspamer to the politics addicts of the time he was a populare and his signature policies were the grain dole and preventing judges from dismissing popular assemblies (and loving caesar's wife) Jazerus has issued a correction as of 08:01 on Aug 12, 2022 |
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Aug 12, 2022 07:58
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pulcher means prettyboy
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Aug 12, 2022 08:33
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Jazerus posted:your original point was that terming the period of time after augustus's creation of the permanent imperator office "imperial" was "terminally lib-brained" and all i have to tell you is that for centuries people have viewed this as the point when the "republic" ended and the "empire" began because there is a perception that augustus and his successors were monarchs, thus making it an empire rather than a republic that does imperialism You know what else has been around for centuries? Liberalism.  I've provided one example from before liberalism of the republic being referred to as an empire, here's another from Ben Jonson's 'Catiline, His Conspiracy '. "Since they haue sought to blot the name of Rome, Out of the world; and raze this glorious Empire" A republic that does imperialism is not necessarily an empire. Real hurthling! posted:the era after this convo is known as the dumbinate Named after me, I feel so privileged. Azathoth posted:i always figured it officially became an empire after the senate ceased to be able to check whoever was in power (whatever their title), not just affect contenders vying for power themselves or effecting power in areas the person in charge didn't control. that is, governing parts of the empire is a big deal and is actual power but if they couldn't stop the guy in charge from doing something they really, really, really didn't want to happen, well that's when it's officially an empire Consider the British Empire. At no point was the monarch even in charge, and there was never anyone in this position afaik. Sherbert Hoover posted:when discussing ancient rome, "empire" in this sense literally means "had an emperor" Do you mean in the modern sense? Because that's probably Sulla or Caeser. Actually this is probably the start date by Azathoth's test. If you mean an imperator, they had them all the way back to the monarchy.
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Aug 12, 2022 09:14
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Anyway I'll drop it, I just wondered if there was a good reason. Have a 4000 year old Armenian wagon. 
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Aug 12, 2022 09:14
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Weka posted:Anyway I'll drop it, I just wondered if there was a good reason. hell yeah add that to the pile with the shoe and the wineskin
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Aug 12, 2022 09:28
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Weka posted:Do you mean in the modern sense? Because that's probably Sulla or Caeser. Actually this is probably the start date by Azathoth's test. If you mean an imperator, they had them all the way back to the monarchy. I suppose you could define it as the collection of powers that was, from Augustus onward, deemed necessary to succeed its previous holder uninterrupted. Although iirc Tiberius didn't instantly claim all powers Augustus had held, it quickly became the norm
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Aug 12, 2022 13:41
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War and Pieces posted:Does anyone but the argument that Byzantine had vestigial organs of a Republic? Theres a whole book making that case (The Byzantine Republic: People and Power in New Rome) which ive wanted to read for a while.
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Aug 12, 2022 14:29
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War and Pieces posted:Does anyone but the argument that Byzantine had vestigial organs of a Republic? the patriarch of Constantinople acted as the representative of the people and not the head of the church when they crowned the emperors
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Aug 15, 2022 18:22
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It had a senate up until the 14th century.
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Aug 15, 2022 22:58
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Bro Dad posted:the mike duncan book makes the case that most roman law was just norms so it became a giant game of political brinkmanship between the patricians and reformers all using One Weird Procedural Trick against their enemies huh, almost like reducing the law (Recht) to laws (Gesetz) is both a cornerstone to all ideologies aimed at the preservation of the status-quo and simultaneously theoretically useless and practically unable to respond to a sufficiently powerful 'revolutionary' actor. (the reduction of Roman law to norm could be nuanced a bit tho, especially when you look at what we would now call 'private' or 'civil law', but also incorporated legal fields we would more traditionally call public law, nowadays. but that discussion is probably a bit too niche even for this subforum)
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Aug 16, 2022 01:27
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https://mobile.twitter.com/NatGeo/status/1559968300473503744
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Aug 17, 2022 23:20
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stealing gulf of mexico valor
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Aug 17, 2022 23:26
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Communist Thoughts posted:The Mongols also used grenades and pike formations when they invaded Japan, woulda made Ghosts of Tsushima a lot more interesting imo why do people say it was the mongols when it was the Yuan dynasty and the generals were multi ethnic
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Aug 18, 2022 00:13
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Antonymous posted:why do people say it was the mongols when it was the Yuan dynasty and the generals were multi ethnic the Mongols employed plenty of non-Mongolian commanders, didn’t they? their very first united army was a combo of Mongolian and Turkic warriors and commanders iirc
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Aug 18, 2022 00:57
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Antonymous posted:why do people say it was the mongols when it was the Yuan dynasty and the generals were multi ethnic
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Aug 18, 2022 01:31
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okay yeah I'm reading the wikipedia
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Aug 18, 2022 01:37
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Antonymous posted:why do people say it was the mongols when it was the Yuan dynasty and the generals were multi ethnic its honestly similar to how people refer to the USSR as "the Russians" or the UK as "the English." It's dumb and reifies bad ethnopurist stuff, but also as mentioned for the period between Temujin's great kurultai and the Toluid Civil War its also probably the only term that "works" and of course there were elements of the Mongol conquests that had nothing to do with the Yuan. It'd be weird to talk about the Yuan conquest of Kiev for example Aside you inadvertently triggered my memory that people, not just like guys but people who get published, have argued that the Roman Empire's success was because they were ethnically pure and did not incorporate minority peoples into their military or civic structure, and the crisis of the 3rd century and eventual collapse was because they let too many non-Romans breed into the Roman population
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Aug 18, 2022 01:43
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dinosaur 9/11
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Aug 18, 2022 08:18
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