[Marx] I put on my anti-coat and wizard hat

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Morbus: May 18, 2004

Raskolnikov38 posted:

how often are you people getting into arguments about stalin that aren't also on this forum?

just lol if u aren't lecturing your wife's friends & co-workers about the Black Legend every time she introduces you to them and the smalltalk drifts to anything politically adjacent.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:04

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 02:24

Shiroc: May 16, 2009; Sorry I'm late

Most successful communist state is able to keep its people mostly covid free by maintaining masking, vaccination, and increasingly tight distancing requirements during outbreaks caused by the capitalist countries� failures

Covid thread: �we should also be doing that. I�ll do the steps I am able to for myself and try to get the people around me to do the same in the hopes to protect each other�
Some �Marxists�: lol loving individualist libs

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:06

Lumpy: Apr 26, 2002; La! La! La! Laaaa!; College Slice

Raskolnikov38 posted:

how often are you people getting into arguments about stalin that aren't also on this forum?

Every time I leave the house.

Well, I imagine I would if I ever left the house.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:16

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Halloween Jack posted:

This feels relevant to me for a lot of reasons, but one is that last night, my spouse asked me if any US president, even Lincoln, could be considered good. My reply was that history isn't about sorting the good guys from the bad guys, it's a process of cause and effect where social conflicts come to a head and resolve themselves. (It seems like this way of looking at history has become very common, as an outcome of a social media culture that makes people feel like they have to have The Correct Take on everything for the sake of their own personal moral standing.)

yeah like one thing dubois makes really clear in his writing is that lincoln extremely did not want to free the slaves, he just had to because the internal contradictions of the usa made it the only way out of the civil war. if you can't train yourself to think in this mode you just end up in the universe of "if hillary had won, we'd all be at brunch right now" but hot-swapping different names in as needed

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:25

Lasting Damage: Feb 26, 2006; Fallen Rib

Raskolnikov38 posted:

how often are you people getting into arguments about stalin that aren't also on this forum?

starting to think they don't because everyone is just making up a tankie in their heads to get mad at. apropos insists its real and they also insist they do real organizing, which i do not, so i'm inclined to believe the claim, but i've never found myself in the bizarre situation of having to defend stalin's decisions when politics comes up talking to my co-workers. lol at the very concept.

this whole thing started when brace belden said on his podcast you should "be normal" if you're going to be a self described theory-reading marxist. that doesn't mean going down the list of stalin's decisions and saying "good" or "bad" when talking with people about this stuff, but just being a good ambassador for socialism. present your values earnestly and honestly and people will respect you. just don't make it your loving personality.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:35

Lasting Damage: Feb 26, 2006; Fallen Rib

also, while i respect people's desire for safety from covid in organizing, i'm also a little disturbed that is what prevents them from organizing rather than the hundred ways the powers that be can retaliate against you for being a troublemaker. it doesn't seem like a safe thing to do in general!

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:38

dxt: Mar 27, 2004; METAL DISCHARGE

Ferrinus posted:

yeah like one thing dubois makes really clear in his writing is that lincoln extremely did not want to free the slaves, he just had to because the internal contradictions of the usa made it the only way out of the civil war. if you can't train yourself to think in this mode you just end up in the universe of "if hillary had won, we'd all be at brunch right now" but hot-swapping different names in as needed

Lincoln also ordered the largest mass execution in US history.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:41

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

Raskolnikov38 posted:

how often are you people getting into arguments about stalin that aren't also on this forum?

100% of complaining about stalin is projection from knowing the most annoying ppl alive irl.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:43

dxt: Mar 27, 2004; METAL DISCHARGE

Lasting Damage posted:

also, while i respect people's desire for safety from covid in organizing, i'm also a little disturbed that is what prevents them from organizing rather than the hundred ways the powers that be can retaliate against you for being a troublemaker. it doesn't seem like a safe thing to do in general!

Adding an extra danger to what is already a dangerous thing doesn't seem like a smart move, especially when all you need to stop covid is n95s for all the participants and maybe a corsi cube or two in the room.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:45

CoolCab: Apr 17, 2005; glem

he's not, he's absolutely right that people react to anything even slightly positive of Stalin in any way like you just praised hitler. particularly left people honestly, partially because of the most annoying people problem.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:45

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

in my experience it's trots who are likely to either bog you down by pushing rightist messages and organizing decisions (guess who's in favor of in-person only for the dsa convention, for instance, or of arming ukraine) or pull condescending or outright sneaky poo poo like poaching members or bait-and-switching organizing events. i've ALSO had the experience of defending stalin in in person conversation, since it's actually quite easy to end up discussing communist history at a social following an organizing event. it's just one of many perfectly friendly discussions you might end up having on the left and people are usually pretty happy to be recommended losurdo or martens or whomever if they're curious in the first place

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:46

The Voice of Labor: Apr 8, 2020

Lasting Damage posted:

also, while i respect people's desire for safety from covid in organizing, i'm also a little disturbed that is what prevents them from organizing rather than the hundred ways the powers that be can retaliate against you for being a troublemaker. it doesn't seem like a safe thing to do in general!

getting sick also makes you a vector to get other people sick. the emphasis on personal responsibility for masking the gently caress up is immediately materially different than management hunting you down

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:50

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

its simple, when it comes to covid: goons love to do the classic goon thing where they say something every1 in the roomy knows about like they're flippin the world on its head. how about i cough where i want

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:51

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

another thing about stalin is that discussions of the leadership of the soviet union are often if not arguably always proxies for discussion about china, vietnam, venezuela, palestine, etc. and if you're not able to look at history as a process rather than as a succession of bad guys tragically betraying and defeating good guys you're going to go the way of chris hitchens sooner or later

# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:54

Shiroc: May 16, 2009; Sorry I'm late

Guys, all of the workers I'm trying to organize keep getting really tired and say they can't focus after getting covid repeatedly. What Lenin do I recommend to make them stop being lazy?

# ? Aug 12, 2022 20:03

unwantedplatypus: Sep 6, 2012

Have you tried enforcing labor discipline by execution?

# ? Aug 12, 2022 20:05

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

very nice of the trot posters to disrupt the reading capital posting for 6 pages of stalin bitching

# ? Aug 12, 2022 20:18

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

the Stakhanov movement had some unique ideas about productivity.

quote:

Further, the Stakhanov movement is a movement of working men and women which sets itself the aim of surpassing the present technical standards, surpassing the existing designed capacities, surpassing the existing production plans and estimates. Surpassing them - because these standards have already become antiquated for our day, for our new people.
This movement is breaking down the old views on technique, it is shattering the old technical standards, the old designed capacities, and the old production plans, and demands the creation of new and higher technical standards, designed capacities, and production plans. It is destined to produce a revolution in our industry. That is why the Stakhanov movement is at bottom a profoundly revolutionary movement.
It has already been said here that the Stakhanov movement, as an expression of new and higher technical standards, is a model of that high productivity of labour which only Socialism can give, and which capitalism cannot give. That is absolutely true. Why was it that capitalism smashed and defeated feudalism?

Because it created higher standards of productivity of labour, it enabled society to procure an incomparably greater quantity of products than could be procured under the feudal system; because it made society richer. Why is it that Socialism can, should and certainly will defeat the capitalist system of economy? Because it can furnish higher models of labour, a higher productivity of labour, than the capitalist system of economy; because it can provide society with more products and can make society richer than the capitalist system of economy.

Some people think that Socialism can be consolidated by a certain equalisation of people's material conditions, based on a poor man's standard of living.

That is not true. That is a petty-bourgeois conception of Socialism. In point of fact, Socialism can succeed only on the basis of a high productivity of labour, higher than under capitalism, on the basis of an abundance of products and of articles of consumption of all kinds, on the basis of a prosperous and cultured life for all members of society. But if Socialism is to achieve this aim and make our Soviet society the most prosperous of all societies, our country, must have a productivity of labour which surpasses that of the foremost capitalist countries. Without this we cannot even think of securing an abundance of products and of articles of consumption of all kinds. The significance of the Stakhanov movement lies in the fact that it is a movement which is smashing the old technical standards, because they are inadequate, which in a number of cases is surpassing the productivity of labour of the foremost capitalist countries, and is thus creating the practical possibility of further consolidating Socialism in our country, the possibility of converting our country into the most prosperous of all countries.

But the significance of the Stakhanov movement does not end there. Its significance lies also in the fact that it is preparing the conditions for the transition from Socialism to Communism.

The principle of Socialism is that in a Socialist society each works according to his abilities and receives articles of consumption, not according to his needs, but according to the work he performs for society. This means that the cultural and technical level of the working class is as yet not a high one, that the distinction between mental and manual labour still exists, that the productivity of labour is still not high enough to ensure an abundance of articles of consumption, and, as a result, society is obliged to distribute articles of consumption not in accordance with the needs of its members, but in accordance with the work they perform for society.
Communism represents a higher stage of development.
The principle of Communism, is that in a Communist society each works according to his abilities and receives articles of consumption, not according to the work he performs, but according to his needs as a culturally developed individual. This means that the cultural and technical level of the working class has become high enough to undermine the basis of the distinction between mental labour and manual labour, that the distinction between mental labour and manual labour has already disappeared, and that productivity of labour has reached such a high level that it can provide an absolute abundance of articles of consumption, and as a result society is able to distribute these articles in accordance with the needs of its members.

Some people think that the elimination of the distinction between mental labour and manual labour can be achieved by means of a certain cultural and technical equalisation of mental and manual workers by lowering the cultural and technical level of engineers and technicians, of mental workers, to the level of average skilled workers. That is absolutely incorrect. Only petty-bourgeois windbags can conceive Communism in this way. In reality the elimination of the distinction between mental labour and manual labour can be brought about only by raising the cultural and technical level of the working class to the level of engineers and technical workers. It would be absurd to think that this is unfeasible. It is entirely feasible under the Soviet system, where the productive forces of the country have been freed from the fetters of capitalism, where labour has been freed from the yoke of exploitation, where the working class is in power, and where the younger generation of the working class has every opportunity of obtaining an adequate technical education. There is no reason to doubt that only such a rise in the cultural and technical level of the working class can undermine the basis of the distinction between mental labour and manual labour, that only this can ensure the high level of productivity of labour and the abundance of articles of consumption which are necessary in order to begin the transition from Socialism to Communism.

In this connection, the Stakhanov movement is significant for the fact that it contains the first beginnings - still feeble, it is true, but nevertheless the beginnings - of precisely such a rise in the cultural and technical level of the working class of our country.

And, indeed, look at our comrades, the Stakhanovites, more closely. What type of people are they?

They are mostly young or middle-aged working men and women, people with culture and technical knowledge, who show examples of precision and accuracy in work, who are able to appreciate the time factor in work, and who have learned to count not only the minutes, but also the seconds. The majority of them have taken the technical minimum courses and are continuing their technical education. They are free of the conservatism and stagnation of certain engineers, technicians and business executives; they are marching boldly forward, smashing the antiquated technical standards and creating new and higher standards; they are introducing amendments into the designed capacities and economic plans drawn up by the leaders of our industry; they often supplement and correct what the engineers and technicians have to say, they often teach them and impel them forward, for they are people who have completely mastered the technique of their job, and who are able to squeeze out of technique the maximum that can be squeezed out of it. Today the Stakhanovites are still few in number, but who can doubt that tomorrow there will be ten times more of them? Is it not clear that the Stakhanovites are innovators in our industry, that the Stakhanov movement represents the future of our industry, that it contains the seed of the future rise in the culture and technical level of the working class, that it opens to us the path by which alone can be achieved those high indices of productivity of labour which are essential for the transition from Socialism to Communism and for the elimination of the distinction between mental labour and manual labour.
Such, comrades, is the significance of the Stakhanov movement for our Socialist construction.

quote:

As to the other aspect of the matter - the curbing of the obstinate conservatives among the business managers, engineers and technical workers - things will be a little more complicated. We shall have in the first place, to persuade these conservative elements in industry, persuade them in a patient and comradely manner, of the progressive nature of the Stakhanov movement, and of the necessity of readjusting themselves to the Stakhanov way. And if persuasion does not help, more vigorous measures will have to be adopted. Take, for instance, the People's Commissariat of Railways. In the central apparatus of that Commissariat, there was, until recently, a group of professors, engineers, and other experts - among them Communists - who assured everybody that a commercial speed of 13 or 14 kilometres per hour was a limit that could not be exceeded without contradicting "the science of railway operation." This was a fairly authoritative group, who preached their views in verbal and printed form, issued instructions to the various departments of the People's Commissariat of Railways, and, in general, were the "dictators of opinion" in the traffic departments. We, who are not experts in this sphere, basing ourselves on the suggestions of a number of practical workers on the railway, on our part assured these authoritative professors that 13 or 14 kilometres could not be the limit, and that if matters were organised in a certain way, this limit could be extended. In reply, this group, instead of heeding the voice of experience and practice, and revising their attitude to the matter, launched into a fight against the progressive elements on the railways and still further intensified the propaganda of their conservative views. Of course, we had to give these esteemed individuals a light tap on the jaw and very politely remove them from the central apparatus of the People's Commissariat of Railways. (Applause.)
And what is the result? We now have a commercial speed of 18 and 19 kilometres per hour. (Applause.)
It seems to me, comrades, that at the worst, we shall have to resort to this method in other branches of our national economy as well - that is, of course, if the stubborn conservatives do not cease interfering and putting spokes in the wheels of the Stakhanov movement.
Second. In the case of those business executives, engineers and technicians who do not want to hinder the Stakhanov movement, who sympathise with this movement, but have not yet been able to readjust themselves and assume the lead of the Stakhanov movement, the task is to help them readjust themselves and take the lead of the Stakhanov movement.
I must say, comrades, that we have quite a few such business executives, engineers and technicians.
And if we help these comrades, there will undoubtedly be still more of them.
I think that if we fulfil these tasks, the Stakhanov movement will develop to its full scope, will embrace every region and district of our country, and will show us miracles of new achievements.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1935/11/17.htm

# ? Aug 12, 2022 20:18

unwantedplatypus: Sep 6, 2012

�Some people think that the elimination of the distinction between mental labour and manual labour can be achieved by means of a certain cultural and technical equalisation of mental and manual workers by lowering the cultural and technical level of engineers and technicians, of mental workers, to the level of average skilled workers. That is absolutely incorrect. Only petty-bourgeois windbags can conceive Communism in this way. In reality the elimination of the distinction between mental labour and manual labour can be brought about only by raising the cultural and technical level of the working class to the level of engineers and technical workers. It would be absurd to think that this is unfeasible.�

I like this part in particular, the anti-education beliefs of some of those on the left have never sat right with me. Education has been one of the most universally liberatory processes in humanity. Maybe education should look different under socialism, but we should want people to become more culturally and intellectually enriched, not less.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 20:27

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Shiroc posted:

Guys, all of the workers I'm trying to organize keep getting really tired and say they can't focus after getting covid repeatedly. What Lenin do I recommend to make them stop being lazy?

You gotta read Juche Thought and eliminate this dogmatism in your praxis.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 20:34

Cpt_Obvious: Jun 18, 2007

So much of education is either worthless or actively harmful that IMO a natural response to realizing that you've been taught garbage is to reject not only the lesson but the entire framework of classes. It is very much like an anarchist seeing the evils of the state and concluding that no state could possibly be helpful instead of asking how and why the state behaves the way it does.

People are throwing around the word stalinist a lot and I was under the impression he didn't directly contribute a whole lot to theory? Do people just mean MLs?

# ? Aug 12, 2022 20:43

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

mawarannahr posted:

the Stakhanov movement had some unique ideas about productivity.

https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1935/11/17.htm

this fits well with this essay on red sails:

https://redsails.org/the-negation-of-abnegation/

and also a post that "uncop" made either here or in d&d, i forget which, which i still quote every so often because i think it's really well said (emphasis mine):

Socialism is simple and boring. It's downright anti-excitement, mainly alleviating stressful uncertainties and providing people that bit more control over their lives. Things are going to stay the same much more so than they are going to change, people themselves would still be greedy and shortsighted assholes and so on.

The thing is, under capitalism the greed of 80-90% of the people counts for next to nothing. They can't accumulate much, no matter how greedy and self-serving they are as people. They don't become captains of industry, they work menial jobs for little pay until their health fails like everyone else does, both the saints and the sinners. People's individual vices or "human nature" have never ever decided what society looks like.

The question that decides everything is: how do people have to be organized in order to outproduce and militarily defeat the dominant mode of production and social organization? A successful socialist society can only be organized along those lines: it has to take what works in capitalist society and replace what doesn't with something more effective. It cannot start out as a nice society of nice people at all, it's necessarily going to be a rather harsh society marked by a generational trauma about the preceding violent and chaotic times.

Ultimately, the ability to force others to do as you do is all that really matters. Marxism just predicts that at this point in history, no one could materially defeat a society where industrial workers are the ones forcing their will on everyone else. It doesn't imagine those workers' better nature to be in charge at all, it predicts their naked self-interest and hatred and vices and fears to lead them to force everyone to build and join classless societies.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 20:44

barge: Jun 12, 2006

Maybe im misunderstanding the chat from a few pages back but do people really not have good introductory stuff handy to point people to beyond "read capital"? I think I'd have been really receptive to marxism when I was younger and had shittier jobs bosses but it's only now that I am working from home and am more comfortable that I feel like I have the free time to read a bunch of books. There's just no way you'd have gotten 20 year old me to come home and crack a big old tome open after work and dig into doing some homework. I mean like super basic stuff you'd recommend to a guy at work, not the kind of thing you use to impress other marxists with

Also I'm glad there was a guy who is gonna read through capital and post about it, I wanna follow along

# ? Aug 12, 2022 20:48

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

Lasting Damage posted:

also, while i respect people's desire for safety from covid in organizing, i'm also a little disturbed that is what prevents them from organizing rather than the hundred ways the powers that be can retaliate against you for being a troublemaker. it doesn't seem like a safe thing to do in general!

It doesn't prevent anything, people are still organizing regardless of what the people asking questions in obvious bad faith are saying. Most of the Seattle DSA events are on zoom, and people seem to be wearing masks and stuff for the in person ones.

I don't know what more people want.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:00

Shiroc: May 16, 2009; Sorry I'm late

AnimeIsTrash posted:

It doesn't prevent anything, people are still organizing regardless of what the people asking questions in obvious bad faith are saying. Most of the Seattle DSA events are on zoom, and people seem to be wearing masks and stuff for the in person ones.

I don't know what more people want.

Not everyone is in Seattle op

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:05

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

Shiroc posted:

Not everyone is in Seattle op

Yeah but I would assume that other socialist or leftist organizations take similar precautions. Maybe that is being too generous though.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:07

Not So Fast: Dec 27, 2007

barge posted:

Maybe im misunderstanding the chat from a few pages back but do people really not have good introductory stuff handy to point people to beyond "read capital"? I think I'd have been really receptive to marxism when I was younger and had shittier jobs bosses but it's only now that I am working from home and am more comfortable that I feel like I have the free time to read a bunch of books. There's just no way you'd have gotten 20 year old me to come home and crack a big old tome open after work and dig into doing some homework. I mean like super basic stuff you'd recommend to a guy at work, not the kind of thing you use to impress other marxists with

Also I'm glad there was a guy who is gonna read through capital and post about it, I wanna follow along

I know it is probably unpopular in this thread but I found watching video essays a lot easier to follow along and better to share with other people who were getting curious about socialism and Marxism - Richard Wolff, Second Thought, Hakim, and Luna Oi all do great videos covering key concepts of socialism and Marxism

once I realised I was actually interested in Marx and dialectics that was when I decided to read theory and started picking up the books recommended in this thread though

(I am still completly lost trying to tell the difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism though)

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:09

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

barge posted:

Maybe im misunderstanding the chat from a few pages back but do people really not have good introductory stuff handy to point people to beyond "read capital"? I think I'd have been really receptive to marxism when I was younger and had shittier jobs bosses but it's only now that I am working from home and am more comfortable that I feel like I have the free time to read a bunch of books. There's just no way you'd have gotten 20 year old me to come home and crack a big old tome open after work and dig into doing some homework. I mean like super basic stuff you'd recommend to a guy at work, not the kind of thing you use to impress other marxists with

Also I'm glad there was a guy who is gonna read through capital and post about it, I wanna follow along

i read imperialism in the 21st century way back and never read a single other thing. I�ll leave the books to the nerds

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:16

apropos to nothing: Sep 5, 2003

Raskolnikov38 posted:

how often are you people getting into arguments about stalin that aren't also on this forum?

if youre regularly tabling or doing any kind of public political work and youre also open about being a socialist, then its pretty common to be approached by people from all kinds of different political perspectives who use the ussr under stalin or many other examples as to why socialism is bad. same if youre open politically with coworkers and neighbors. if you dont have a satisfactory answer then youre immediately alienating to them. in many cases theyre cranks and you can ignore em, in many other cases they are normal people. I'd say if you are in the US and havent had conversations like this youre either not putting your politics forward openly, or youre in a bubble politically and arent engaging enough politically with people who have conservative or liberal ideas.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:20

mila kunis: Jun 10, 2011

Ferrinus posted:

or of arming ukraine

wait is SAlt in favour of this??

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:21

barge: Jun 12, 2006

Oh that's good, thanks I'll check those out. I just want some stuff I can easily point people to and videos seem perfect for that

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:21

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

mila kunis posted:

wait is SAlt in favour of this??

different flavor, i'm thinking of like jacobin-aligned people

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:22

apropos to nothing: Sep 5, 2003

mila kunis posted:

wait is SAlt in favour of this??

no lol, trot is just a term for people you dont like. eric blanc and others in the dsa jacobin clique are all trots even though the stuff they write is all anti-lenin and they complain about trots all the time. theyre social democrats but again, just call them trots because its a slur.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:29

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

Not So Fast posted:

(I am still completly lost trying to tell the difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism though)

its the Civ strat of building tall v building wide

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:32

Cuttlefush: Jan 15, 2014; gotta have my purp

so trot is the tanky's tanky?

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:33

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

You know what text I wish someone had shown me when I was working construction for $6 an hour? Engels' Principles of Communism. It's like 3 pages and explains socialism succinctly and it's not harder to read than anything I was assigned in my high school freshman English class. There's a few bits that respond to contemporary questions that aren't relevant today, but that's not a big deal.

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:33

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

China in this metaphor is the city state that gives you super sick bonuses except they�re continuously growing stronger so you have to wipe em out at some point

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:34

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

apropos to nothing posted:

if youre regularly tabling or doing any kind of public political work and youre also open about being a socialist, then its pretty common to be approached by people from all kinds of different political perspectives who use the ussr under stalin or many other examples as to why socialism is bad. same if youre open politically with coworkers and neighbors. if you dont have a satisfactory answer then youre immediately alienating to them. in many cases theyre cranks and you can ignore em, in many other cases they are normal people. I'd say if you are in the US and havent had conversations like this youre either not putting your politics forward openly, or youre in a bubble politically and arent engaging enough politically with people who have conservative or liberal ideas.

i live in dc currently i aint telling anyone poo poo

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:38

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

apropos to nothing posted:

no lol, trot is just a term for people you dont like. eric blanc and others in the dsa jacobin clique are all trots even though the stuff they write is all anti-lenin and they complain about trots all the time. theyre social democrats but again, just call them trots because its a slur.

i mean they actually are, they organize in a trotskyist caucus. it's like that old saying - "we are both atheists; i just go one god farther"

# ? Aug 12, 2022 21:45

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# ? Jun 3, 2024 02:24

the unabonger: Jun 21, 2009

Not So Fast posted:

I know it is probably unpopular in this thread but I found watching video essays a lot easier to follow along and better to share with other people who were getting curious about socialism and Marxism - Richard Wolff, Second Thought, Hakim, and Luna Oi all do great videos covering key concepts of socialism and Marxism

don't forget the best video essay: Yellow Parenti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8CzlFhc14

# ? Aug 12, 2022 23:24

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