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Carter is extremely loving bad and the director should be ashamed of wasting such a very skilled stunt team. Whenever the camera stops moving for long enough, you realise there's some fantastic choregraphy in there, but every shot is undermined by the director's need to move the camera constantly. I'm not going to bother talking about the plot since the film isn't interested in it. I'm judging it purely on the action. For me, the best part of a long take fight scene is the sense of continuity and structure it can create. You appreciate the character wearing down a massive group of enemies (like in Oldboy) or see them moving through a defined space (like Hard Boiled) or appreciate how tired and desperate they're getting (like in Daredevil, albeit a flawed version) but Carter's camera movement is so random that it actively undermines this. We can barely follow the current beat of the action, never mind how that fits in with the larger flow of a scene. The first major fight, in the sauna, is a perfect example. He's fighting against this huge crowd and whenver we glimpse it, there seem to be plenty left until, suddenly, there isn't, which was exactly the problem with the Villainess's hallway fight too. There's also the way you can see goons waiting for their turn, but that's not a unique problem and it's far from the worst offender there. It's disappointing since the Villainess was promising. That's the word I would use. There's some good ideas that are a bit out of the reach, either through budget or talent I'm not sure, but there's inventiveness. Carter just replicates all that film's mistakes on a much larger, longer and more exhausting scale. Lastly, the camera never moving slowly or even just at a normal speed, even when it is moving between physical points that are a long way apart, was extremely loving annoying. Just let the scene breathe for a moment, dude.
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Aug 8, 2022 01:27
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I thought The Princess was fun enough. Solid schlocky action. Gave me a chuckle and put a smile on my face a couple times. Sure, it's videogame-y as gently caress, and the evil minions in it are about as useful as Putty people in Power Rangers (she sends them flying down stairs with Home Alone level antics) but if you go into it accepting that then you'll have fun. It's funny how Lin's uncle leaves the final battle presumably to take a severely-wounded Lin to immediate medical attention, cuz like, otherwise he could have just helped the main character kill the villain in 2 minutes, but then Lin just shows up a couple minutes later just like I'M OK
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Aug 8, 2022 06:19
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Someone in this thread recently recommended Killing (2018) by Shinya Tsukamoto and I want thank you for that, big fan of films about how being a samurai is actually completely inhuman and insane and you will lose everything.
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Aug 8, 2022 06:41
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Majkol posted:Someone in this thread recently recommended Killing (2018) by Shinya Tsukamoto and I want thank you for that, big fan of films about how being a samurai is actually completely inhuman and insane and you will lose everything.
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Aug 8, 2022 06:54
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Someone needs to introduce Tsukamoto to a tripod though.
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Aug 8, 2022 07:47
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Steen71 posted:Someone needs to introduce Tsukamoto to a tripod though. He would probably make a movie about someone wanting to gently caress it and failing, then killing themselves because of it and coming back to life as some human-tripod demonic mutant.
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Aug 8, 2022 07:58
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Ok, that does sound pretty good.
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Aug 8, 2022 08:16
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Snowman_McK posted:Carter is extremely loving bad Yeah, it's nearly unwatchable anytime the camera decides to move. During the car chase related scenes, watching it go from Drone, to go-pro to handheld to google street maps zoom was just so exhausting. And while I want to applaud the ambition, it suffers the exact same issue as Villainess, where everything is always moving yet nothing has a real sense of speed or impact or movement. When Carter dives onto our out of something, his body just kind of awkwardly floats as the "camera" does all the moving. The few actual fight scenes (the opening one in the spa for example) are where the film does a little better, and the camera tricks make everything a little more fun and add some tension to the situation (though, watching a room full of gang members kind of just swing at empty air was funny)
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Aug 8, 2022 12:43
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I had the opposite reaction, the camera movement was exhilarating to me. There was one shot during one of the many cases chases where the camera swoops under the chase car and stayed there for a few seconds and I thought, this is something we've never seen before, this shot is totally gonna be ripped off by a dozen shittier less ambitious films in the future. There were a bunch of shots like that. This movie has had such a divisive reaction among action movie buffs, and I seriously could not understand the negative reactions until I read the explanations above, which I think can be summed up by being put off by the range and amount of camera movement. That's totally fair, I just reacted differently to that movement. To me, the movement completely immersed me in the film, it's basically a POV movie without the limitations of being the protagonist's POV.
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Aug 8, 2022 12:56
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Oh yeah that was me. Really good movie, with an appropriate depiction of the absolute dehumanizing effect and horrific carnage of being a samurai. I feel ridiculous for only starting to watch Shinya Tsukamoto's poo poo in the last year or so. Such a wild loving director. I think Arrow Player has like, all of his poo poo streaming rn. This is worth a look if you like Tsukamoto's work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS4ubxASgu8 also if you google a bit you can find a pdf of the out-of-print Iron Man by Tom Mes (or you can buy a copy for several hundred dollars  )https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/1034630.Iron_Man Which is a good read and introduction to the director's work.
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Aug 8, 2022 13:05
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Goddam the Iron Man. What an ending
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Aug 8, 2022 13:10
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Carter just sounds like what Crank did back in 2006
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Aug 8, 2022 15:08
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CelticPredator posted:Carter just sounds like what Crank did back in 2006 It's got some bigger problems because it's more audacious and plays it straighter. I have some "thoughts" on Carter but I'm still chewing on them. The thing to know is that it doesn't work, the ambition is there but the executional barriers totally stymied it. I'm also not sure that the concept of "it's 90% action and all a oner" is even worth it. I'm thinking of "Crazy Samurai Musashi" here as well. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Aug 8, 2022 |
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Aug 8, 2022 17:35
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Watched Tale of Zatoichi, that's the first one. It was a drat good movie but not much action in it. It's been a while since I watched such a old movie but maybe its just me but the older movies seem to have a completely different pacing. It felt super slow in a good way especially early on when Zatoichi is just meeting the characters in the village but then picked up. I don't know how to describe it but you could tell that nothing was going to happen in the first hour but it wasn't boring either. The audio is one of the best parts in Japanese action movies, I feel like they really make the best sounds to make the action feel more impactful but this definitely wasn't the era where that was happening yet. Gonna check out the sequel next.
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Aug 8, 2022 21:03
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dokmo posted:I had the opposite reaction, the camera movement was exhilarating to me. There was one shot during one of the many cases chases where the camera swoops under the chase car and stayed there for a few seconds and I thought, this is something we've never seen before, this shot is totally gonna be ripped off by a dozen shittier less ambitious films in the future. There were a bunch of shots like that. I know the shot you mean. It was actually really cool and had a clear purpose and loving held still. I think that's what makes it doubly frustrating: we see these little glimpses of something better but everything (with a tiny number of very specific exceptions) is through that hyper kinetic lens where it moves constantly whether or not that's appropriate or effective.
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Aug 8, 2022 21:47
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Ulio posted:Watched Tale of Zatoichi, that's the first one. It was a drat good movie but not much action in it. It's been a while since I watched such a old movie but maybe its just me but the older movies seem to have a completely different pacing. It felt super slow in a good way especially early on when Zatoichi is just meeting the characters in the village but then picked up. I don't know how to describe it but you could tell that nothing was going to happen in the first hour but it wasn't boring either. The audio is one of the best parts in Japanese action movies, I feel like they really make the best sounds to make the action feel more impactful but this definitely wasn't the era where that was happening yet. Gonna check out the sequel next. Yeah the movies are generally character based dramas, with one large swordfight scene at the end. Historical swordfight movies didn't really become more action oriented until the 70s I think. I believe the 2nd movie (Tale of Zatoichi Continues) is one of the few stinkers in this long series, having been shot very cheaply and quickly after the surprise hit of the first one. But it's been a while since I've seen it, I could be misremembering.
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Aug 9, 2022 00:50
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Ulio posted:Oh drat didn't know it had a manga, I do hope we get more movies and as you said the cast was perfect. Satou is really meh in the first movie but he has a bit more personality in the sequel. That's good to hear. I just finished Fable and gotta say he was an absolute dud and none of the comedy worked for me. I get that his lack of emotion and personality is part of the story but it was downright painful to watch at times. Especially with the odd pacing. The movie could've cut 20 minutes easily. Despite all that, thanks for the recommendation! Never heard of this one. It was bloody. It was over the top in a good way. Lots of fun energetic cartoony yakuzas. A very good unique spin on the hitman action subgenre.
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Aug 10, 2022 02:11
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Wrong thread
mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Aug 10, 2022 |
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Aug 10, 2022 02:24
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https://twitter.com/MaulerMMA/status/1557198876251041792 RIP to a real one. He won't be able to choke out Steven Seagal any longer.
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Aug 10, 2022 06:14
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Watched Dave Bautista's C-tier Die Hard in a soccer stadium, Final Score. I say C-tier, but it's still probably better than A Good Day to Die Hard. I'll never know for sure cuz I'll never see that movie. Bautista is definitely more fun and charismatic than a checked out Bruce Willis, and they did manage to get an evil goon that makes Bautista look small...but you're fine just watching that 2 minute kitchen fight which is pretty much anything anyone talks about of value when it comes to the film. And even then it's just like, okay. You do get to see Pierce Brosnan and Ray Stevenson do bad Russian accents, I guess. Like a lot of schlocky films, it has some weird messaging if you think about it too hard (DO NOT DARE TO RESIST THE RUSSIAN STATE!! IF YOUR SEPARATIST REVOLUTION IS TOO VIOLENT BECAUSE OF THEIR BRUTALITY, YOU SHOULD GIVE IT UP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!!!).
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Aug 10, 2022 07:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYqLMrrlAtk Well this is the one I've been waiting for.
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Aug 10, 2022 16:25
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Put Scott Adkins into the Mission Impossible franchise. Also give Florentine some drat money!!!
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Aug 10, 2022 16:55
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CelticPredator posted:Carter just sounds like what Crank did back in 2006 Do not malign the amazing Crank franchise
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Aug 10, 2022 17:08
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I was saying Carter sounds like it’s diminishing returns But maybe I might like it because all the bad stuff sounds like my jam. I love hyper kinetic camera work
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Aug 11, 2022 01:42
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CelticPredator posted:I was saying Carter sounds like it’s diminishing returns Give it a go. If you like the first 30 minutes (or if you don't) you'll have a very clear idea of whether you'll like the rest.I'd also like to know what you consider a good example of hyper kinetic camera work (not that there's anything wrong with it, I just can't think of a good example)
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Aug 11, 2022 04:47
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Anything by Sam Raimi of course. But Crank is absolutely another one. Pretty much anything by N/T honestly, including Happy. Michael Bay stuff when it’s done well. I still really like the way Star Trek 2009 flows. James Wan does a lot of really fun camera movements, as does Leigh Whannell with Upgrade specifically. That stuff is really cool and exciting to me Edit: pretty much most of Matthew Vaughn’s flicks. I love the way he does his fight scenes. Everything is clear but the camera is flying around and always in motion. CelticPredator fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Aug 11, 2022 |
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Aug 11, 2022 05:48
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Demtor posted:That's good to hear. I just finished Fable and gotta say he was an absolute dud and none of the comedy worked for me. I get that his lack of emotion and personality is part of the story but it was downright painful to watch at times. Especially with the odd pacing. The movie could've cut 20 minutes easily. Glad you liked it. The 2nd one is very similar in structure. First half of the movie has few action scenes or almost none but it sets up the plot. Then people find out Satou is the Fable and things get crazy again. The big action set piece at the end is very very good and I do think Satou's deadpan personality improves slightly here but it is still that just done bit better. dokmo posted:Yeah the movies are generally character based dramas, with one large swordfight scene at the end. Historical swordfight movies didn't really become more action oriented until the 70s I think. Ya Tale of Zatoichi Continues just felt super rushed so I agree with your statement. It kinda reuses and goes back to a lot of the stuff from the first movie. The same yakuza boss, the same love interest but now with new baddies chasing him. The whole plot with his brother and their backstory was just so random. Like Zatoichi's wife left him for his brother then she also leaves the brother for another man. I then found out the brother actor is actually Zatoichi's real life brother so thats a nice touch, I believe Zatoichi's bro is the actor for Lone Wolf and Cub. The 2nd movie definitely improved on the action and there is more of it. But honestly I rather take the set up of the first movie. It's set up this struggle between two Yakuza groups in this small village, even side characters like the Yakuza boss's henchmen have motives, the emotional relationship between Zatoichi and his rival ronin is done well then they have their climactic fight. The fight between Zato and his brother in 2nd was so freaking random. His brother is just hiding behind some bushes and is like oh hey bro I want to take my revenge now. Zato doesn't even this guy is there and there is 0 set up. Also I found out the character in Guilty Gear, Zato-1 is named after Zatoichi, 1 is ichi in Japanese. Took me a while to realize that. I watched the Gray Man as well, it's fine, it has some nice acting from Chris Evans who is so good at playing a villain, Ryan Gosling playing the same character he plays in every movie, Ana da Armas looking gorgeous as usual. It has some good action bits but I don't know it's just shot in the modern hollywood way where they overproduce/overedit all the action scenes so you literally can't tell what's going on. It's not Jason Borne type camera shake but just too much edit. This is what I love about smaller budget Asian movies they dodge the overproduction poison pill by not having the money for it. So you just get nice action choreography that you can actually follow with your eyes. Ulio fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Aug 11, 2022 |
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Aug 11, 2022 22:46
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CelticPredator posted:Anything by Sam Raimi of course. But Crank is absolutely another one. Pretty much anything by N/T honestly, including Happy. Cool, fair enough. Hyper kinetic camera work is one of those terms that has a quite varied meaning. It's not really like most of those. If there was a comparison I'd make, it would be the last 30 minutes of Hot Fuzz, the parody of Michael Bay which is really just doing Michael Bay's editing and camera work style less skillfully. Carter plays out like a parody of action films someone made for College Humour, except it's two hours long and it isn't funny.
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Aug 11, 2022 22:56
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Hot Fuzz has some of the best editing I've ever seen.
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Aug 11, 2022 23:24
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Carter may not be good. It’s just the knocks against it kind of appeal to me. But that doesn’t mean I’ll automatically dig it. I may or not even watch it idk. Don’t hold your breath on that
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Aug 11, 2022 23:34
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Shageletic posted:Hot Fuzz has some of the best editing I've ever seen. In the first two thirds/three quarters, absolutely. It's clockwork precise in its editing, just as it is blocking, framing, music cues, dialogue and so on. It's amazing. Once the gun fight starts, it goes to poo poo since it's imitating a style of editing that was kind of bad to begin with and it's doing it poorly.
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Aug 12, 2022 06:02
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Snowman_McK posted:
Doesn't that mean it becomes good?
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Aug 12, 2022 09:38
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See I guess I think the not on that Bay’s style is bad is what I object too. Hot Fuzz is great even though it’s doing a parody. But regardless Wright’s action scenes are awesome and kinetic too. Every fight in The Worlds End gets better
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Aug 12, 2022 09:50
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Anyone check out Day Shift? I think I'll watch it later, the action I saw in the trailer gave me Upgrade vibes, if Upgrade had more than I think 4 minutes of action in the entire movie and was based around vampires instead of NANOMACHINES
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Aug 12, 2022 19:17
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forest spirit posted:Anyone check out Day Shift? I saw it, action scenes are ... fine I guess but everything else is dire. Best bit involves Scott Adkins saying "bro" a lot and killing vampires but then he vanishes for the rest of the film. Jamie Foxx still has charm for days but overall, a bit meh.
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Aug 12, 2022 21:47
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Watching Carter now and the one cut style being faked is just distracting. Especially with how noticeable the actual cuts are.
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Aug 13, 2022 00:37
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I feel like I'm being overly defensive by sticking up for the movie itt, but I didn't see the style as fake one take, but continuous viewpoint. The barely hidden cuts (or not at all hidden cuts) didn't affect the camera's perspective, so I didn't find them distracting. Obviously I'm in the minority, which is probably not to the movie's credit, but it worked for me.
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Aug 13, 2022 00:47
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CelticPredator posted:See I guess I think the not on that Bay’s style is bad is what I object too. Hot Fuzz is great even though it’s doing a parody. But regardless Wright’s action scenes are awesome and kinetic too. Every fight in The Worlds End gets better They're awesome now. He developed his own way of doing action. He's phenomenal at it now. Hot Fuzz just dragged for me in the third act despite having lots of good bits. Grendels Dad posted:Doesn't that mean it becomes good? No muscles like this! posted:Watching Carter now and the one cut style being faked is just distracting. Especially with how noticeable the actual cuts are. Yeah, a lot of the time there isn't even an attempt to conceal, just a very blatant cut between two takes. It picked an extremely stupid gimmick and then didn't even stick to it.
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Aug 13, 2022 05:03
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I watched Day Shift https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN_IwBptKi4 And I was thinking "why on earth does this Netflix vampire comedy have incredible stunt work" and then Scott Adkins turns up as a vampire hunter with shoe knives to do deadly flips with and I realised stunt people made it for fun
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Aug 13, 2022 15:05
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The Peccadillo posted:I watched Day Shift The HK action glory days output will never happen again at that rate, but it'd be cool if one of these streaming services put together like a stunt/action movie stable of folks and made stuff like this regularly.
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Aug 13, 2022 18:40
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