(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
|
Mr. Lobe posted:There's no excuse for not at least trying to organize in some capacity, not even lack of talent or probable personal impact. Why even bother being a Marxist if all you're going to do with it is be alone and "correct" in your room, if you're that much of a nihilist you might as well just be apolitical. It'd probably be personally healthier
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 16:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 00:06 |
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:fine if you all think the dsa is salvageable I’ll go annoy local meetings good. the dc dsa is from my understanding dominated by NGO and democratic staffers, like people that work for center for american progress  so if you believe in class independence you will be in for a fight but thats what marxism is is fighting, and also on the bright side those same individuals also hate SA/the perfidious trots so youll have some common ground from which to work to convince them of breaking with the dems 
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 16:36
|
|
|
Mr. Lobe posted:There's no excuse for not at least trying to organize in some capacity, not even lack of talent or probable personal impact. Why even bother being a Marxist if all you're going to do with it is be alone and "correct" in your room, if you're that much of a nihilist you might as well just be apolitical. It'd probably be personally healthier without a theory that can correctly anticipate Capital’s behavior, one may as well just focus on mutual aid and other harm mitigation, and ignore theory entirely.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 16:53
|
|
|
Zodium posted:without a theory that can correctly anticipate Capital’s behavior, one may as well just focus on mutual aid and other harm mitigation, and ignore theory entirely. If all you're interested in is palliative care, sure Some of us want more than that, however much the odds may be against us
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 16:57
|
|
|
Mr. Lobe posted:If all you're interested in is palliative care, sure it was what, fifty years between Higgs predicting the existence of the Higgs boson and its observation. running out to do experiments would not have changed that, because we could not have built the large hadron collider before we did. Higgs would famously assert in interviews that he would never have developed the theory at all in the publish or perish environment later scientists are forced to work in. developing theory sometimes involves being alone and correct in your room, as you put it, and a great deal of patience.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 17:12
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:fine if you all think the dsa is salvageable I’ll go annoy local meetings i don't think the dsa itself will do much useful but like with any organizing it's possible to make connections that are invaluable despite that
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 17:14
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 17:17
|
|
|
Zodium posted:it was what, fifty years between Higgs predicting the existence of the Higgs boson and its observation. running out to do experiments would not have changed that, because we could not have built the large hadron collider before we did. Higgs would famously assert in interviews that he would never have developed the theory at all in the publish or perish environment later scientists are forced to work in. developing theory sometimes involves being alone and correct in your room, as you put it, and a great deal of patience. Even Marx did not work alone
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 17:21
|
|
|
in the us the most fertile orgs are unions rn, although they have a lot of anti-communist historical baggage built into their bureaucracy & leadership that will take a long time to overcome. But in any conversation I have w/ socialist minded people, it's about labor organizing. if you want to engage with organizing in an immediate way that doesn't feel like "wasting your time" at reading groups or w/e, try organizing your workplace. The harder problem happening in a lot of industries tho is how to encourage people to care about rank & file organizing against their corrupt and lovely union boss. Its kind of a less obviously engaging campaign/demand, especially if you're talking about regional and national leadership 50+ year entrenched.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 17:28
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/people/status/1557779891633913857?t=9PWXUyVXCBkcTJ6UxodAHA&s=19
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 17:42
|
|
|
Atrocious Joe posted:https://twitter.com/people/status/1557779891633913857?t=9PWXUyVXCBkcTJ6UxodAHA&s=19 Slava DeSanta!
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 18:38
|
|
|
Slava Flo-rida
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 18:41
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:the dsa is so big that it's actually pretty easy to find like-minded people doing good work no matter how you define those two terms. of course that work will often include struggling against other parts of the dsa but that's just how things go in the early stages of party formation roughly how many decades are the early stages of party formation expected to last?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 18:47
|
|
|
Atrocious Joe posted:https://twitter.com/people/status/1557779891633913857?t=9PWXUyVXCBkcTJ6UxodAHA&s=19 As long as it's a picture of Hitler I'm ok with this.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 19:17
|
|
|
The Voice of Labor posted:roughly how many decades are the early stages of party formation expected to last? tho considering the heightening contradictions, im guessing it doesn't necessarily have to take that long for future parties
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 19:28
|
|
|
alright dc metro has some reading groups lets look at those oh no
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 20:54
|
|
|
What would a Marxist line on indigenous rights movements and things like land back be? Its important to recognize the destruction wrought by colonialism and stop the continuing immiseration of indigenous peoples. The parts where it turns into 'returning land' by declaring a tribe as the original owners feels at odds with a project that would ultimately want land to be returned to the common ownership of everyone.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 20:54
|
|
|
Caliban and the Witch is good
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 20:55
|
|
|
https://mobile.twitter.com/chiquilin2k/status/1558537868816949248 https://twitter.com/chiquilin2k/status/1558270965041115137 
BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 20:58 on Aug 14, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 20:55
|
|
|
Shiroc posted:Caliban and the Witch is good okay googling it and it was not the witch bullshit that infected cspam last year that i assumed thank christ
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 20:59
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:okay googling it and it was not the witch bullshit that infected cspam last year that i assumed thank christ
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 20:59
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:okay googling it and it was not the witch bullshit that infected cspam last year that i assumed thank christ Brother you are too online lmfao.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 21:11
|
|
|
lmao. Yeah Caliban and the Witch was a great read, the transition from pre-capital to capitalist societies is a pretty fascinating one as it helps tackle the idea that this is the only possible world we can live in.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 21:12
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:okay googling it and it was not the witch bullshit that infected cspam last year that i assumed thank christ It does talk about how accusations of witchcraft were weaponized against surplus (primarily older) women and to push them into a subordinate role to men for the needs of capitalism. As well as stuff about how medical knowledge that was originally held by women got discarded and the women forced out of the healer roles as men decided to reclaim everything and start over WITH SCIENCE. Sylvia Federici was one of the big Wages For Housework movement people. The biggest thing I got from reading it was how modern capitalism was formed by waves of primitive accumulation and how it broke more equal social relations in order to create the unwaged relations and care work the system needed to function.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 21:13
|
|
|
AnimeIsTrash posted:Brother you are too online lmfao. i mean i had never even heard of the book so dont blame me for that being the first association between socialism and witches my brain formed
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 21:18
|
|
|
So whats the deal with Juche and why is it so different from lets say "socialism with chinese characteristics"?
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 21:21
|
|
|
Shiroc posted:What would a Marxist line on indigenous rights movements and things like land back be? Its important to recognize the destruction wrought by colonialism and stop the continuing immiseration of indigenous peoples. The parts where it turns into 'returning land' by declaring a tribe as the original owners feels at odds with a project that would ultimately want land to be returned to the common ownership of everyone. My limited understanding of land back in the USA is that it does involve returning land to common ownership, although not in a socialist way and in a more idealist way since I tend to hear about it more from anarchists than Marxists.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 21:24
|
|
|
Shiroc posted:What would a Marxist line on indigenous rights movements and things like land back be? Its important to recognize the destruction wrought by colonialism and stop the continuing immiseration of indigenous peoples. The parts where it turns into 'returning land' by declaring a tribe as the original owners feels at odds with a project that would ultimately want land to be returned to the common ownership of everyone. when its owned by the tribe its owned by everyone in the tribe. a big issue is what do you about checkerboarding and the white people that live on the reservations as a result. they are generally incredibly racist and want no oversight of them by any tribal government e: also if you need a justification for returning land, any land to be returned would be lands that were specifically promised tribes by treaty that the government welched on
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 21:26
|
|
|
More like Calibanibal and the Witch
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 21:27
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 21:31
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:i mean i had never even heard of the book so dont blame me for that being the first association between socialism and witches my brain formed Women providing support to other women in a way that might make them realize the men around them sucked was also a way to get yourself called a witch really fast. Most of the medicine and ritual was ways of providing support to each other in a system that desperately needed women to be broken apart. Obviously literal magic isn't real and the space is full of manipulative grifters like everything under capitalism. But that's why people thinking of 'witchcraft' in terms of the above will react incredibly poorly to people busting in with 'lol lol you dumb bitches think you're magical???? READ MARX lol lol'
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 21:39
|
|
|
Shiroc posted:What would a Marxist line on indigenous rights movements and things like land back be? Its important to recognize the destruction wrought by colonialism and stop the continuing immiseration of indigenous peoples. The parts where it turns into 'returning land' by declaring a tribe as the original owners feels at odds with a project that would ultimately want land to be returned to the common ownership of everyone. Speaking of Stalin: https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1913/03.htm A rough tl;dr of the writing and the writer's eventual policy is that federalization based on nationality contributes to atomization and the ability of outside forces to pick a state apart, but local-policy autonomies based on identifying viable minority regions on all levels that have a plurality (in some cases, a historical plurality or a planned plurality after accepted resettlement, or limitation of resettlement by the majority) of a particular heritage must be recognized with rights to in particular local language and education policy, proportionality or better in party and government selection, and encouragement of local culture, with an eye to producing populaces that are satisfied enough in their immediate demands and needs that they don't feel they are being oppressed and thus are willing to begin to consider themselves as internationalist Soviet proletarians who happen to be from (whatever). It's hard to analogize to America, because of our weird-rear end "middle points both ways" organization as opposed to bottom-up, but presumably you'd be talking reservation lines redrawn to not just be "wasteland surrounding the useful stuff", tribal leadership chosen from members who are also party members but also party membership in these lands more intensively chosen from tribal membership, and that merged government taking over the role of state or county for national or state representation rather forming an overlapping restricted authority. Mandoric has issued a correction as of 21:56 on Aug 14, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 21:50
|
|
|
anyone know Native American socialist writers? if not and if there’s any interest there is a professor I could ask at the end of the month
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 22:00
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:anyone know Native American socialist writers? if not and if there’s any interest there is a professor I could ask at the end of the month Nick Estes and Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz would be my 2 recommendations.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 22:02
|
|
|
Tankbuster posted:So whats the deal with Juche and why is it so different from lets say "socialism with chinese characteristics"? It’s the perfect application of communism. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 22:10
|
|
|
AnimeIsTrash posted:Nick Estes and Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz would be my 2 recommendations. Nick Estes’s organization red nation has a reading list iirc. You might find more there as well.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 22:15
|
|
|
AnimeIsTrash posted:Nick Estes’s organization red nation has a reading list iirc. You might find more there as well. My DSA chapter read through Our History is the Future and it was a valuable read although appropriately grim.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 22:22
|
|
|
i really liked caliban and the witch when i read it but i've heard some of its history is sketchy and also federici has kind of been drifting into terf territory
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 22:46
|
|
|
Federici was solidly in the period of second wave feminism so it wouldn't be surprising if she ended up being a terf, if unfortunate.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 22:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 00:06 |
|
|
Still reading this ep Thompson book and jesus, it's interesting but depressing. Given how recent a lot of these enormous changes to society are it actually making me realise its a loving wonder we are as normal as we are Also given that my family roots are methodist its pretty eye opening how theyr basically on the front lines of making everything awful and teaching people that child labour is ok, we're all sinners and if you abase yourself to authority and work your life away you might get to go to heaven if you're lucky
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2022 23:04
|
|
