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Big Mean Jerk posted:It’s more or less the same uniform with a few key changes. It wasn't horrible, and honestly the only thing that got up and slapped me was the pleather sides. The rest I wouldn't have noticed and if someone had pointed out just a different strap or pants, even I would have said they were being pedantic. I do give them recognition for the turtlenecks. Those collars are notorious in cosplay circles for being difficult and I believe that's why the never used them in TNG flashbacks.
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Aug 15, 2022 05:45
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Just got the "First 10 movies" box set (stardate collection, remastered non-director's cuts), and a couple of random notes popped to my head from watching through 1 to 6 during one weekend: -The first one really is the worst one; Five has several issues which makes it a mess of a movie but with first one they had all the time and money to make ...that. -Reading background materials Roddenberry really was a lunatic; he was obsessed with a script where they travel back in time and Spock has to shoot JFK to preserve timeline to a degree where he got kicked upstairs to a consultant role where he couldn't decide on anything. In ST 2 he leaked the script to object Spock dying. In ST 3 he leaked the script to object Enterprise going down. In ST 5 he objected the ending being changed to some random alien faking being god instead of being literally devil dragging the crew to hell, and in ST 6 he generally hated the entire premise of the movie (Klingons surrender, conspiracy within starfleet ranks). None of his objections would have made any sense, or made the movie better had it been kept. -In ST1 that wormhole thing is really stupid and unneccessary thing, that never happened before and never happens again in the series. -Why are these theatrical releases, most of the director's cuts existed when this collection was released. This also makes some things to not make any sense; in ST2 Scotty decides to carry a random corpse to the bridge, and in ST6 the klingon assassin doesn't bleed pepto-bismol. -The SFX rework and upscaling looks really nice. -ST1 and ST4 really are the same plot with different solutions. They also are only 7 years apart, so I guess everyone was actively trying to memoryhole ST1 back then? -ST5 would have been better movie if it had focused only on Nimbus 3 or that "telepathic alien masquerades as God in the remote colonies in the edge of the federation and tries to get his followers to release him". -Its really jarring what they did to Saavik. They had to recast that role twice, and then cut the last appearance by rewriting it to a completely different Vulcan woman from Starfleet. Not being pregnant for Spock's child was understandable rewrite because of the circumstances it would have happened, but the ST6 would have worked better if it were his wife/partner who betrays him, not some random "protege". -DeForest and Nimoy really were getting too old for their roles, both looked like pensioners even in the 1st movie, Doohan passed that horizon somewhere in ST3/4. -ST4 is one of the only movies made by Hollywood where Finns are the bad guys. Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 08:51
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Der Kyhe posted:-In ST1 that wormhole thing is really stupid and unneccessary thing, that never happened before and never happens again in the series. It was intended to show how dangerously out-of-practice and unknowledgeable about the new Enterprise Kirk was. He forced warp before they were ready and then nearly blew up the ship trying to save them before Deckard intervened.
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Aug 15, 2022 09:04
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He did warn us during the only part of the movie worth watching that he's not untested but he might be out of practice, at least Thank God for the score there I can't even imagine how awkward that conversation in the shuttle would be without it.
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Aug 15, 2022 10:08
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Der Kyhe posted:this also makes some things to not make any sense; in ST2 Scotty decides to carry a random corpse to the bridge, and in ST6 the klingon assassin doesn't bleed pepto-bismol. Wasn't that a human assassin disguised as a klingon? I could have sworn that was the point of that bit, to demonstrate that there were elements inside the Federation willing to kill their own, just as the movie already demonstrated that there were identical elements inside the klingon empire. A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 12:30
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A.o.D. posted:Wasn't that a human assassin disguised as a klingon? I could have sworn that was the point of that bit, to demonstrate that there were elements inside the Federation willing to kill their own, just as the movie already demonstrated that there were identical elements inside the klingon empire. Yes, this is what I meant with theatrical vs. director's cut. In director's cut we learn that the corpse Scotty is carrying around is his niece, an ensign fresh out of academy, and yes that assassin was disguised human from the starfleet marine corps (played by Odo himself). In the shorter theatrical cuts there are no establishing scenes involving either, and most if not all references to both are cut or re-recorded out whenever possible. Obviously there are also other stuff between theater vs. director's cuts, but Scotty's niece and Colonel West I believe are the biggest changes that were originally completely cut from ST1-6, but are on some versions of the films. Its not large change, but having seen both I think the director's cuts are better because they do more thorough work on patching up the loose ends you see here and there. Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 12:56 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 12:44
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MikeJF posted:It was intended to show how dangerously out-of-practice and unknowledgeable about the new Enterprise Kirk was. He forced warp before they were ready and then nearly blew up the ship trying to save them before Deckard intervened. I think one of the (many) weaknesses of TMP is that there's no real resolution to this arc. Kirk takes control, boots Decker out of the captain's chair, shows himself to be out of touch and unprepared and then... there's no actual payoff, no moment of him really acknowledging that he was out of his depth or that he screwed over Decker. It just goes nowhere. I assume it's a left-over plot point from Phase II, where the tension between Kirk and Decker's approaches could have been more of a running theme, but it's one if a lot of things that either should have been reworked or cut entirely when the pilot was converted into a movie script.
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Aug 15, 2022 13:11
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The payoff is that Decker decides this job is for idiots and unalives himself
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Aug 15, 2022 14:20
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Der Kyhe posted:Just got the "First 10 movies" box set (stardate collection, remastered non-director's cuts), and a couple of random notes popped to my head from watching through 1 to 6 during one weekend: I think the first Star Trek movie was really just them trying to make something like 2001: A Space Odyssey.
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Aug 15, 2022 14:52
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Well they got the iconic music part down
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Aug 15, 2022 15:10
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Its really interesting scifi with some really cool visuals but in no way is TMP entertaining Weird how much of phase 2 bled into other trek shows, Decker and Aliya are the proto Riker and Troi
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Aug 15, 2022 16:10
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To me, TMP is worth it for Nimoy's performance and Spock's character arc that doesn't resolve until the end of ST:IV. Also, it's one of the few Star Trek movies (with IV being the other exception) that has an antagonist but not a villain and that's sorely lacking across the board.
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Aug 15, 2022 16:23
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I love TMP because I love esoteric weird bullshit with trippy visuals
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Aug 15, 2022 16:45
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I love TUC, but yes Valeris doesn't really work that well. If she had actually been Saavik as planned that plotline would have been so much better when she turned out to be part of the murder conspiracy. Instead it's a new character that is only in this movie.
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Aug 15, 2022 17:00
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FlamingLiberal posted:I love TUC, but yes Valeris doesn't really work that well. If she had actually been Saavik as planned that plotline would have been so much better when she turned out to be part of the murder conspiracy. Instead it's a new character that is only in this movie. I didn't even know Scotty had a niece? Like I've seen this movie plenty of times and that was new to me today lol. It's also like the least interesting thing I could think of putting into that movie
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Aug 15, 2022 17:27
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The novelization goes into it a bit more. In the book he's only 14 years old (because I guess 14 year olds can be cadets in Starfleet?) He was also being tutored by and had a crush on Saavik.
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Aug 15, 2022 17:37
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Angry Salami posted:I think one of the (many) weaknesses of TMP is that there's no real resolution to this arc. Kirk takes control, boots Decker out of the captain's chair, shows himself to be out of touch and unprepared and then... there's no actual payoff, no moment of him really acknowledging that he was out of his depth or that he screwed over Decker. It just goes nowhere. I'm pretty sure that the scene in 6 that establishes the assassin as being human was in both the original theatrical release and the slightly later HBO version. The butchered cut for commercial television versions must be the ones that omit it. skasion posted:The payoff is that Decker decides this job is for idiots and unalives himself He's not dead, he's just wondering why the Celestial Koala is smiling. "WHAT DOES HE KNOW?!?"
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Aug 15, 2022 17:41
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Worf posted:I didn't even know Scotty had a niece?
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Aug 15, 2022 18:08
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A.o.D. posted:I'm pretty sure that the scene in 6 that establishes the assassin as being human was in both the original theatrical release and the slightly later HBO version. The butchered cut for commercial television versions must be the ones that omit it. You can see that the assassin bleeds normal human blood but the "meddling kids" mask pulling scene is cut because the earlier scenes with Colonel West and the president Boot-up-yourass were also cut, so the audience has no idea who that guy is. You have to figure out the conspiracy yourself from the 3-4 seconds the blood is visible on screen. ^^^^ ...And whose body Scotty drags from engineering to the bridge instead of sickbay so that he can yell at Kirk for being an idiot.
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Aug 15, 2022 18:15
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I'm not sure what to say here. I've never seen a director's cut and yet I understood from the very first viewing that the sniper was a human disguised as a Klingon. Like, there wasn't even a doubt in my mind. It's as if the movie hammered home over and over during it's run time that things weren't as they seemed and that there was a grand conspiracy at play and hey, you should pay attention to the color of blood.
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Aug 15, 2022 19:19
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoKSgctYzjM
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Aug 15, 2022 22:52
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Is there an exact episode where you can pinpoint where the fake Bashir shows up? In Body Parts, Quark tells Rom he's got diagnosed with a terminal illness on Feregenar and Rom suggests that he should get a second opinion from Bashir when he returns from the Gamma Quadrant. It's gotta happen sometime before they get the new pajamas. Edit: Probably not this episode since it's the one where the baby swap happens. There probably had to be a span of episodes where no major medical emergencies happen before the discovery is made. I'm guessing the changeling probably learned some medical basics and skirted by on a lot of stealth malpractice for the more complicated stuff. Detective No. 27 fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 00:24
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Detective No. 27 posted:Edit: Probably not this episode since it's the one where the baby swap happens. There probably had to be a span of episodes where no major medical emergencies happen before the discovery is made. I'm guessing the changeling probably learned some medical basics and skirted by on a lot of stealth malpractice for the more complicated stuff. That theory is spoilt by Rapture, the first episode where they get the new uniforms, in which Bashir performs brain surgery on Sisko!
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Aug 16, 2022 00:42
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I forgot about that episode. Then I conclude the Federation only won the Dominion War because of Section 31’s little virus war crime. Edit: Alternatively, the Dominion lost because they wanted to flex their brain surgery skills and totally missed an opportunity to oopsy daisy slip a scalpel Sisko’s brain when they had the chance. Detective No. 27 fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 00:45
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Der Kyhe posted:-Why are these theatrical releases, most of the director's cuts existed when this collection was released. This also makes some things to not make any sense; in ST2 Scotty decides to carry a random corpse to the bridge, and in ST6 the klingon assassin doesn't bleed pepto-bismol. , ST2 has always felt like the most superflous Directors Cut because the thing with Scotty's nephew is the only memorable thing added and... it's really unneeded and was an understandable cut? Having only known the theatrical version for many years before seeing the DC the bridge scene never felt out of place, it made it clear Scotty was distraught over this one brave cadet who didn't panic and run paying the price for it, there wasn't any additional context needed. Both versions have the "why did he haul the kid all the way up to the bridge?" aspect but it's a dramatic conceit The cut scenes about some of Starfleets machinations and the conspiracy in ST6 are welcome returns but that awful edit of the already lamentable Valeris interrogation scene really makes for a bitter pill (and I'm an unrepentant member of the TMP theatrical cut is better than the TMP directors edition club)
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Aug 16, 2022 02:40
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The short version of ST:TMP https://vimeo.com/217336882
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Aug 16, 2022 03:18
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mllaneza posted:The short version of ST:TMP The soundtrack is in every conceivable way worse than the original and makes the whole thing basically unwatchable.
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Aug 16, 2022 03:29
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A.o.D. posted:The soundtrack is in every conceivable way worse than the original and makes the whole thing basically unwatchable. What an absolutely bizarre way to describe one of the best movie scores of the past 20 years.
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Aug 16, 2022 03:32
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Big Mean Jerk posted:What an absolutely bizarre way to describe one of the best movie scores of the past 20 years. okay, so maybe the first 45 seconds were a hard listen, but the TMP soundtrack does not under any circumstances need to be replaced.
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Aug 16, 2022 03:37
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I really like how loving weird TMP is and I recently watched the Directors cut or remaster and its loving great. I dunno I just really love it.
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Aug 16, 2022 04:08
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I like the original TMP score (esp dat Klingon track) and I like Daft Punk’s Tron score. It’s okay to like both and mix and match. They’re both top of their game scores so any film could benefit by having either mashed in. The key take away is that TMP loving really benefits from a huge bunch of editing down. God that movie is far too long for its own good.
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Aug 16, 2022 04:21
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Speaking of scores, the best part of Picard S2 was easily right at the end where we got a little quote of the theme from First Contact Edit: Nevermind what was happening on-screen at the time CPColin fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 04:24
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New theory: Fake Bashir first shows up in Broken Link. He was originally sent to DS9 to gently caress up Odo so Odo would return to the Link to face judgement for killing the Changeling. It also coincides with Gowron ramping up agressions, no doubt influenced by the Fake Martok.
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Aug 16, 2022 04:41
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Detective No. 27 posted:I forgot about that episode. Then I conclude the Federation only won the Dominion War because of Section 31’s little virus war crime. the changelings killed and replaced sisko in that episode, the end of DS9 is the final part of an elaborate Trojan Horse to neutralize the wormhole aliens once and for all
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Aug 16, 2022 05:08
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Holy moly I made it five minutes into the (bad) Enterprise "finale" before I turned it off. Terra Prime is as good a place to end that series as any. I guess I'll never know what happened to Shran's kid.
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Aug 16, 2022 11:21
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some kinda jackal posted:Holy moly I made it five minutes into the (bad) Enterprise "finale" before I turned it off. Terra Prime is as good a place to end that series as any. I guess I'll never know what happened to Shran's kid. Experience Bij
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Aug 16, 2022 13:18
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some kinda jackal posted:Holy moly I made it five minutes into the (bad) Enterprise "finale" before I turned it off. Terra Prime is as good a place to end that series as any. I guess I'll never know what happened to Shran's kid. You were warned.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:43
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A.o.D. posted:I'm not sure what to say here. I've never seen a director's cut and yet I understood from the very first viewing that the sniper was a human disguised as a Klingon. Like, there wasn't even a doubt in my mind. It's as if the movie hammered home over and over during it's run time that things weren't as they seemed and that there was a grand conspiracy at play and hey, you should pay attention to the color of blood. Yeah it is obvious when you know what we know; in the original release its left ambiguous if the assassin actually was someone from Starfleet or someone set up by Chang. Unless you notice the blood but that could also be a effects failure or oversight. Since there are no establishing scenes where Colonel West is present, the unmasking just would have shown some unremarkable guy most likely to be human-looking. So was it Betazoid, Orion, surgically altered other species, someone from starfleet, someone paid by Chang from human colonies etc... Just some random assassin and that is all there is to it.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:15
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some kinda jackal posted:Holy moly I made it five minutes into the (bad) Enterprise "finale" before I turned it off. Terra Prime is as good a place to end that series as any. I guess I'll never know what happened to Shran's kid. tl;dr for These Are The Voyages if you really want to know: They save Shran's kid, she's in the same place they went to in the first episode in order to make the show circular. Trip electrocutes himself and dies for... reasons, and then the bring him back in the novel continuations of the show by literally going "that was dumb and pissed everyone off, it didn't happen." And it turns out that the episode is actually happening during the middle of The Pegasus from TNG, and Riker watching Trip kill himself on the holodeck inspires him to stand up to Pressman and reveal the illegal cloaking device to Picard. The final scene is Archer going to sign the Federation Charter, as glimpsed in Azati Prime, though Riker goes "End program" before Archer even signs it. The end. They also make a joke that Riker was Chef. These truly ARE the voyages...
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Aug 16, 2022 20:27
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nine-gear crow posted:And it turns out that the episode is actually happening during the middle of The Pegasus from TNG, and Riker watching Trip kill himself on the holodeck inspires him to stand up to Pressman and reveal the illegal cloaking device to Picard.. Which, of course, doesn't fit the original episode because he doesn't make up his mind to that until they find the cloak in the Pegasus engineering. It's got a nice shot of the Enterprise-D, at least
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Aug 16, 2022 20:30
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