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Mirello posted:well, to use a better example, I myself am Jewish. An extremely common topic for jokes (even today, although probably more common in the past). If I got upset every time I heard a jewish joke, rather than trying to see the humor, I would be much worse off. Xaris posted:I think Mirello's point is that it must be tiring getting offended by offensive-by-today's-standard media of the past. and there is certainly a big host of twitter libs who trawl and do that and they can be indeed very tiring. like netflix removed the Community episode that featured Drow Elf Face even though it was very specifically mocking Drow Elf Face as a concept because context is a step too far for most people to figure out. It must be really tiring to be like this. Imagine sitting there being offended at someone else being offended instead of just laughing or moving on.
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Aug 15, 2022 09:16
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Mirello posted:well, to use a better example, I myself am Jewish. An extremely common topic for jokes (even today, although probably more common in the past). If I got upset every time I heard a jewish joke, rather than trying to see the humor, I would be much worse off. That makes a lot of sense. I'm not really on the same page as you, and I'm sorry if I came at you over this, but I do sort of understand where you're coming from. Trans stuff is really near and dear to me, so I misconstrued your post as being defensive of the specific use of the slur and not a statement on how you feel about things overall. I apologize for misunderstanding what you were trying to say! It's hard to pull back from stuff like this for me, but I still shouldn't have assumed you were being malicious or put words in your mouth.
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Aug 15, 2022 09:18
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its normal to feel bad when an otherwise funny or enjoyable thing goes out of its way to disparage you. it feels like suddenly this object you were enjoying has made a subjective stance against you. you suddenly are made aware it is not and was never "on your side". its the original meaning of gaze/objectification. The object 'gazes' at you from a male/hetero/white/christian lens and makes you feel like you've lost your own subjectivity. Objectifies you as a thing without the ability to define itself. You can't defend yourself to a TV episode from 2011. its bad and finding it tiring is extremely normal
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Aug 15, 2022 09:22
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NeatHeteroDude posted:When I watch TV, I don't like to think "this kind of poo poo is would make them feel bad for existing because their identity is a cheap joke to people who write television. Other people love, laugh at, and defend them because they see every critique of the media they consume as a personal attack on their honor." Mirello posted:Not to go too much into it, but I think it stems from a lib idea of entertainment as real life or education, rather than entertainment. if they could just purge it of all evil influences, than maybe man would be less evil. I think this is pretty laughable myself, but not in an entertaining way. (Excuse this super rough argument) I think Education in culture comes first, and what then follows is entertainment. It's just that everybody is so well education in the culture that seeing it under the entertainment is hard. *Dutch angle* And It's harder now because we've been on this cultural kick of trying to find universal reactions. A movie shows a person getting kick between the legs and there is a wince from the audience. It's more biological wired than a baptism routine where the differences range from sprinkling water on a baby to fully dunking an adult in a river. (In the eyes of the practitioners doing different actives could get you killed or worse your soul damned to hell.) And it goes much deeper than defending their media. They are defending their culture, probably because they themselves are on the boarder of acceptable culture and one weird twist could shove them out. Also they are defending their reality. It's a more symbolic form a reality. Nobody sees themselves as a superhero with powers, but that underlying story of some nobody farm kids becoming the most powerful person in the world is a common story structure especially in Post World War II America.
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Aug 15, 2022 10:32
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I don't know that there was any real backlash to the Community episode. Seems more like the media was scrambling to performatively respond to blm without actually doing anything
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Aug 15, 2022 11:58
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They definitely didn't scale back the copaganda though lol
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Aug 15, 2022 11:59
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Eric Cantonese posted:On the other hand, Scarry explaining how money flows due to purchasing goods and services in that very chapter is pretty pro-capitalist. I don't think this is the point of that segment. Like, it's not about high finance or whatever. The farmer grows crops and sells them to the grocer, who sells them to the pig family and buys new clothes for his kids, etc etc etc. That sounds to me like an example of the message I was talking about, that society works because all the workers are interdependent. Money is just the medium by which they interact because we still live in a capitalist society. Now, you could call it overly naive and outdated to the point of being misleading in that all of these workers are independent and own their means of production rather than being helpless worker drones for unassailable faceless corporations, but the solidarity message seems important enough to me that I'm okay with that. quote:And the dude loves coal power. The book in question was written in 1968 I do wish there were a modern version with solar or nuclear power and men and women working side by side, which also didn't have, like, rotary phones everywhere (or that one really uncomfortable racial stereotype)
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Aug 15, 2022 12:09
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:I don't know that there was any real backlash to the Community episode. Seems more like the media was scrambling to performatively respond to blm without actually doing anything it's funny because I don't think anyone has ever actually articulated why the Community episode got pulled, it just got pulled and they never acknowledged it beyond a note that not all episodes of Season 2 are available.
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Aug 15, 2022 12:44
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Mirello posted:well, to use a better example, I myself am Jewish. An extremely common topic for jokes (even today, although probably more common in the past). If I got upset every time I heard a jewish joke, rather than trying to see the humor, I would be much worse off. I mean, as a Jew myself a lot of the 'Jewish jokes' I see in media suck poo poo so I'd very unironically love to know your favorite. The only one that really comes to mind as a genuinely well constructed 'Jew joke' is ages ago when South Park was doing some episode about a disaster hitting Cartman keeps trying to get Kyle to give him his 'Jew gold' in exchange for help, Kyle keeps getting offended and telling him to gently caress off and it's set up well as a pretty obvious 'Cartman's an antisemite' joke, until the last time when Kyle genuinely needs help, Cartman pulls that, and he just angrily takes a pouch from around his neck and throws it at him. Like, that was a solid joke based on the established characters and having Kyle actually validate a crazy anti-Jewish assumption for once as a subversion on the usual dynamic.
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Aug 15, 2022 12:59
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sexpig by night posted:I mean, as a Jew myself a lot of the 'Jewish jokes' I see in media suck poo poo so I'd very unironically love to know your favorite. The only one that really comes to mind as a genuinely well constructed 'Jew joke' is ages ago when South Park was doing some episode about a disaster hitting Cartman keeps trying to get Kyle to give him his 'Jew gold' in exchange for help, Kyle keeps getting offended and telling him to gently caress off and it's set up well as a pretty obvious 'Cartman's an antisemite' joke, until the last time when Kyle genuinely needs help, Cartman pulls that, and he just angrily takes a pouch from around his neck and throws it at him. Like, that was a solid joke based on the established characters and having Kyle actually validate a crazy anti-Jewish assumption for once as a subversion on the usual dynamic. I got this one from cum town: what's the jewish pedophile say? "Hey kid, you wanna buy some candy?" for something not from a podcast about having sex with your dad, all of arrested developments jewish jokes were very funny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EAX437L3sA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGfn22oqs74 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5dQnJldgzA Mirello has issued a correction as of 14:25 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 14:22
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I think the Discworld book I'm reading (Feet of Clay) has the 1996-culture equivalent of a trans coming-out narrative like, Discworld dwarves (at least in this book, he's retconning stuff all the time which makes sense for such a long-standing series) have two sexes and one gender. There are male and female dwarves and they all have beards and wear armor and swing axes and love mining etc etc etc. Dwarves don't actually reveal to each other what sex they are unless they are literally about to start loving. This book has a female dwarven character (Cheery) who has something like gender dysmorphia from this and is, with the support of the only other female main character, slowly adopting more feminine characteristics like wearing jewelry and makeup and short skirts and picking a more feminine name for herself (Cheri). This isn't presented like a joke or punchline, and the other characters reacting to it with confusion and unease are presented as old-fashioned and closed-minded. It is, in other words, a trans narrative in every sense except that the character in question isn't actually trans, which is why it's the 1996-culture equivalent. I find this interesting because I wasn't expecting it out of Terry Pratchett, who appears to have, accidentally or otherwise, exposed the biggest ideological discrepancy between second- and third-wave feminism, and come out on the side of the third wave, as a straight cis British dude in his late forties in 1996. Like, the dwarven model where gender is irrelevant to the point of nonexistence kind of reads to me like the second-wave ideal, but it has had the ironic consequence of stigmatizing femininity. One of the main characters (Carrot) has an argument with his girlfriend (Angua) about this which he loses because the end result of his viewpoint is that he thinks femininity is wrong somehow and should be kept to oneself. Anyway I haven't finished reading this book, and it's very possible that he fumbles the ending of it by making it into a big joke where Cheri decides she's happier the way she was or whatever, but I'm pleasantly surprised so far. This book's main narrative is exploring the idea of golems, constructs created to work, and whether they have personhood and rights, and between that and this side narrative I think it's a pretty shining example of the use of fantasy tropes to explore complicated real-world societal questions.
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Aug 15, 2022 14:22
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lol the last scene of the most recent The Rehearsal
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Aug 15, 2022 15:29
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LIVE AMMO COSPLAY posted:I don't know that there was any real backlash to the Community episode. Seems more like the media was scrambling to performatively respond to blm without actually doing anything Yeah I remember when Netflix killed the D&D episode a lot of people were asking if anyone asked for this. There was never even a astroturfed demand for it to be nuked, it was just arbitrarily decided that it should be removed. Which is horseshit, it's one of the best episodes of that show and deals with the subject of suicide and being suicidal in a pretty nuanced way (or at least I thought). The characters even point out that Drowface is pretty racist in the show! Augh!
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Aug 15, 2022 16:20
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Terry Pratchett rules, I wouldn't be surprised if it was an intentional trans story just filled through what was acceptable in 1996. Here deserves to be a beloved author in every way that JK Rowling doesn't. Sure its a meme but the Vimes Boots Theory on economic inequality is literally basic principals of Marxism aimed at kids. The man did not deserve to suffer through dementia
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Aug 15, 2022 16:23
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Dreylad posted:Yeah I remember when Netflix killed the D&D episode a lot of people were asking if anyone asked for this. There was never even a astroturfed demand for it to be nuked, it was just arbitrarily decided that it should be removed. It was blatantly virtue signaling. Even more blatanly so when they defended Dave Chapelle attacking trans people in God's comedy specials they were all for "Free Speech" than
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Aug 15, 2022 16:26
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Dreylad posted:Yeah I remember when Netflix killed the D&D episode a lot of people were asking if anyone asked for this. There was never even a astroturfed demand for it to be nuked, it was just arbitrarily decided that it should be removed. same thing happened to always sunny
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Aug 15, 2022 16:29
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mastershakeman posted:same thing happened to always sunny Which episode? The musical one with Scott Bakula?
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Aug 15, 2022 16:34
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brugroffil posted:lol the last scene of the most recent The Rehearsal it was incredible lol. the whole series we've been given all these red flags and led to be suspicious of Angela's political views, and then we get kindly but sassy Jewish grandma to give us the cathartic moment and let us confirm those suspicions. so the reveal that she is by far the most monstrous person Nathan has ever had on his shows was perfect.
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Aug 15, 2022 16:34
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Dreylad posted:Which episode? The musical one with Scott Bakula? Probably the lethal weapon episodes where mac puts on blackface
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Aug 15, 2022 16:35
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Dreylad posted:Which episode? The musical one with Scott Bakula? they pulled 5 episodes. 2 lethal weapons with blackface , two with dee's brownface, then the frank brownface and mac's , i dont even know what it is. offensive chinese woman costume https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vMoKc8D60Y mastershakeman has issued a correction as of 16:47 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 16:44
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Not to spoil but Pratchett definitely doesn't go back on the whole dwarven femininity thing and it becomes an ongoing plot current throughout the series from then on. Getting a bit blatant at points especially towards the end where he's unfortunately basically trying to get as much out as he can before he dies, but still. Complete with some bits mildly exploring the implications for genderqueer dwarves and humans involved in the culture. And a lot targeting sexism and gender roles with an extremely critical eye, even outside of Monstrous Regiment.
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Aug 15, 2022 16:46
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:it was incredible lol. the whole series we've been given all these red flags and led to be suspicious of Angela's political views, and then we get kindly but sassy Jewish grandma to give us the cathartic moment and let us confirm those suspicions. so the reveal that she is by far the most monstrous person Nathan has ever had on his shows was perfect. The last scene was with Nathan's mom. e: the stuff with Angela was good too, of course
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Aug 15, 2022 17:30
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brugroffil posted:The last scene was with Nathan's mom. the hardcore zionist at the end was Miriam, the tutor.
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Aug 15, 2022 17:47
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brugroffil posted:The last scene was with Nathan's mom. that wasn't Nathan's mom it was the rabbi he invited over to teach his "son" about Hanukkah edit: gently caress You Stop Fitzgerald
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Aug 15, 2022 17:48
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https://twitter.com/jackguerre1/status/1558557427754213377
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Aug 15, 2022 17:52
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:the hardcore zionist at the end was Miriam, the tutor. F Stop Fitzgerald posted:the hardcore zionist at the end was Miriam, the tutor. oh right my mistake! still, funny
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Aug 15, 2022 17:55
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yelling "careful nathan!!! careful nathan!!!" at the end of the episode where they talk about israel vs palestine
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Aug 15, 2022 17:59
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I need to watch The Wind that Shakes the Barley (socialist movie) again soon because the cast has been popping up on the timeline recently with some good poo poo https://twitter.com/lildickbrah/status/1558854938649923590?s=20&t=jvYRkR5GbfStPfHjalKHMg https://twitter.com/liamcunningham1/status/1556630033254465538?s=20&t=jvYRkR5GbfStPfHjalKHMg
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Aug 15, 2022 18:54
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I like when jokes are funny even if they're a bit naughty. the main problem is that jokes like that aren't often funny, they're just a way to shovel the writer's prejudice into the audience while getting to claim plausible deniability. cause it's a joke!!
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Aug 15, 2022 21:55
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first season of community was in 2009. im willing to give a show from more than 10 years ago some leeway on issues that werent really at the forefront back then. as long as its not a pattern i dont see the problem
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Aug 15, 2022 22:03
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KomradeX posted:Terry Pratchett rules, I wouldn't be surprised if it was an intentional trans story just filled through what was acceptable in 1996. Here deserves to be a beloved author in every way that JK Rowling doesn't. Sure its a meme but the Vimes Boots Theory on economic inequality is literally basic principals of Marxism aimed at kids. Ghost Leviathan posted:Not to spoil but Pratchett definitely doesn't go back on the whole dwarven femininity thing and it becomes an ongoing plot current throughout the series from then on. Getting a bit blatant at points especially towards the end where he's unfortunately basically trying to get as much out as he can before he dies, but still. Complete with some bits mildly exploring the implications for genderqueer dwarves and humans involved in the culture. And a lot targeting sexism and gender roles with an extremely critical eye, even outside of Monstrous Regiment. Man part of me thinks it's too bad he's not around to be a counterbalance to the whole Rowling thing, but part of me is glad he never had to see a discourse where people call him an MRA and whatnot for being an outspoken anti-TERF Can't imagine Pratchett on Twitter anyway really
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Aug 15, 2022 22:37
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Dreylad posted:Yeah I remember when Netflix killed the D&D episode a lot of people were asking if anyone asked for this. There was never even a astroturfed demand for it to be nuked, it was just arbitrarily decided that it should be removed. Yeah iirc it was a pretty good handling of it for being part of a dumb comedy series, and sets of a bit of nice continuity in the rest of the season of Neil becoming more confident in his brief appearances in other episodes, including becoming DJ for the school radio.
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Aug 15, 2022 22:46
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We all just need to accept that comedy ages like milk.
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Aug 15, 2022 22:54
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Into delicious cheese??
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Aug 15, 2022 23:00
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Atrocious Joe posted:I need to watch The Wind that Shakes the Barley (socialist movie) again soon because the cast has been popping up on the timeline recently with some good poo poo uncritical support for true comrade ken loach. pretty much all of his movies are uncompromisingly socialist and his discussion/debate/book with Edouard Louis is also definitely pretty interesting.
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Aug 15, 2022 23:06
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but honestly. more people in cspam should read Louis and it’s a shame he isn’t particularly well known.
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Aug 15, 2022 23:07
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loquacius posted:Man part of me thinks it's too bad he's not around to be a counterbalance to the whole Rowling thing, but part of me is glad he never had to see a discourse where people call him an MRA and whatnot for being an outspoken anti-TERF the recent discussion made me go look at his wiki page and i found this gem: "In a 1995 interview with Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates, Pratchett expressed concern about the potential spread of misinformation online. He felt that there was a "kind of parity of esteem of information" on the internet, and gave the example of holocaust denial being presented on the same terms as peer-reviewed research, with no easy way to gauge reliability. Gates disagreed, saying that online authorities would index and check facts and sources in a much more sophisticated way than in print. The interview was rediscovered in 2019, and seen by Pratchett's biographer as prescient of fake news" sadly, no one is perfect: "He described The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (2006) as his favorite video game in a 2009 interview and stated that he used many of its non-combat-oriented fan-made mods.[80] Pratchett wrote dialogue for an Oblivion mod which added a Nord companion named Vilja. He also worked on a similar mod for its sequel The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (2011) which featured Vilja's great-great-granddaughter."
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Aug 15, 2022 23:07
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Remulak posted:We all just need to accept that comedy ages like milk. a lot of Raw is still funny idc
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Aug 15, 2022 23:10
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babypolis posted:sadly, no one is perfect: lmao
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Aug 15, 2022 23:10
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Somehow 'dumb' humor ages the best. Beavis and Butt-head, old slapstick comedies, stuff like that.
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Aug 15, 2022 23:14
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