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One of these days I'll pick up Nier rerelease but, I confess, I'm still partial to Father Nier and still kinda bummed he's not available, not even as DLC. I know Brother Nier was the original and a lot of the plot threads make more sense with a younger protagonist and Father Nier was basically invented by the marketing department to appeal to Americans, but dang it, it worked, I love the big lug, and Jamieson Price did a great job voicing him.
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Aug 15, 2022 10:47
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Bad Seafood posted:One of these days I'll pick up Nier rerelease but, I confess, I'm still partial to Father Nier and still kinda bummed he's not available, not even as DLC. I was in the same boat as you and I ended up loving the rerelease. the english VO is superb and the big glow up halfway through has a lot more payoff for a kid turning into an adult than an old man turning into an olderer man. Tho both options would have been ideal. I think someone patched papa nier in on PC though?
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Aug 15, 2022 12:30
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BisbyWorl posted:Keep in mind that the weapon stories were added to the remaster and were originally exclusive to a lorebook. OG Nier had nothing for upgrading weapons other than number go up, so you were grinding for the sake of grinding if you went for the all upgrades achievement Ah that makes sense considering all the other QoL additions and stuff added from the lorebook. I think part of the reason I've chosen to be so thorough finding things in this game is that I hadn't played it since the Xbox 360 release, so I imagine it will be a long time before I play it again once I'm done. I loved the original but this version did a great job weaving in tweaks and additions into whatever I remembered the game being like in my head.
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Aug 15, 2022 13:20
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I might be misremembering but I’m pretty sure you play as old man nier in the DLC areas
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Aug 15, 2022 14:27
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You do play as old Nier in the built in DLC. Not quite the same thing as being able to play him the full game, but it's cool to see the model and the music remixes kick rear end. edit: I'm playing with the Japanese voice acting so I don't now what he sounds like in English, but they definitely got a seperate voice actor for Japanese old Nier so I'd assume they did the same for the English version. Redezga fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 14:32
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Papa nier shows up in the DLC combat arenas, but that's it--he doesn't really get to do anything substantial or do anything at all in the main game. I agree with the sentiment that brother nier technically probably makes more sense for the themes of the game, and makes the act break more meaningful, but also that I'm nostalgic for the ugly old man and I miss him. in other words Bad Seafood posted:Father Nier was basically invented by the marketing department to appeal to Americans, but dang it, it worked
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Aug 15, 2022 15:00
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Did Japan ever get the Old Nier version out of curiosity? Also, why did they decide to change him to an adult in the west to begin with (though it still works either way)?
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Aug 15, 2022 15:26
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Larryb posted:Did Japan ever get the Old Nier version out of curiosity? They believed the father/daughter relationship would resonate more with the western playerbase than the older brother/younger sister one as a narrative impetus/hook.
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Aug 15, 2022 15:40
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Japan got both NieR Gestalt (Dad Nier) and NieR Replicant (Brother Nier). Until the remaster, the West only got Gestalt.
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Aug 15, 2022 15:43
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Is there anything particularly different between the two storywise aside from one being about a father and daughter and the other being about a pair of orphaned siblings?
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Aug 15, 2022 15:47
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This is just something from the development section of the Nier fandom page, but it seems like it there was a lot of reason but mostly they were told by the people doing the western localisation that considering the tone of the game it didn't work with a skinny teen swinging a big sword and the Japanese end of things just decided to trust them on that with mixed results.Nier fandom posted:About three years before the game's release, when the project began to take shape, Saito took pains to include the North American and UK localizers and marketing department members in the development process. His goals were to guarantee a profit with appeal to Western audiences since Drakengard had poor sales in the West. He, Taro, and key members of the design team had a meeting with the Western staff in Los Angeles. Western staff members expressed immediate concerns with making NieR multiplatform for the changing next generation market, and told the Japanese staff that they didn't want the same experience on both consoles. Therefore, Taro had the idea to make the experience unique for each platform. This began the earliest start of the father and daughter concept. Redezga fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Aug 15, 2022 |
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Aug 15, 2022 15:50
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Redezga posted:You do play as old Nier in the built in DLC. Not quite the same thing as being able to play him the full game, but it's cool to see the model and the music remixes kick rear end. they brought Jamieson Price back to record lines for the DLC area
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Aug 15, 2022 16:12
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Larryb posted:Is there anything particularly different between the two storywise aside from one being about a father and daughter and the other being about a pair of orphaned siblings? It just makes more sense with them as siblings. The whole setup of the townsfolk giving him busywork chores so that he can earn money for himself and his sister is much more natural if he's a kid that they're taking pity on, and it means there's a cool parallel with the junkyard brothers. It also makes the timeskip more dramatic. I thought I'd miss dad Nier but I just spent the whole game noticing how much better the story works if he's the brother instead.
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Aug 15, 2022 16:20
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Yeah, Brother Nier hits pretty much every single story beat better, and in a vacuum where I never knew otherwise, I'd have no issues with Replicant. I'm sure I'll play it eventually and go "Wow, yeah, this really fits better," but something about Father Nier just works for me. I'm not the kinda guy who shies away from cute games or pretty boy protagonists either, but I miss my ugly papa. When the returning English VAs did a video where they all signed a copy of Grimoire Weiss and Price was the only one missing, I felt let down.
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Aug 15, 2022 16:30
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I'm curious- what's your consensus on the redone OST? I remember literally shaking n crying n throwing up when I first heard about it thinking they'd ruin it but I honestly think almost every track is an impossible improvement over the incredible originals other than the Ashes of Dreams ending themes (specifically the vocals sound significantly better to me in the originals). But some friends who never played these games I showed it to over the last year, every single one of them said they enjoyed the originals more. My fav part is the little extra coda or whatever you may call it that's completely brand new inserted between each full loop of the song. The first time I heard many of these new additions were pure magic.
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Aug 15, 2022 21:38
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beep by grandpa posted:I'm curious- what's your consensus on the redone OST? I can't say much about the OST comparison since I didn't play the original version beyond hearing the soundtrack out of context, but it hit me less than Automata's. This is anecdotal, of course, but going to a wider scale it's interesting that an import place nearby has gotten orders for Automata and original Nier stuff, but the Automata merch vanishes in a hurry, while the Replicant stuff tends to sit. I'm not sure how to best say this without coming off as an rear end in a top hat, but playing Replicant, I respected it, but I couldn't say I liked it nearly as much as Automata... and I also couldn't see anything that would make it better than Automata, beyond nostalgia, personal connection (like some theme hitting home in Replicant that Automata doesn't do much with), or snobbery. It kind of feels like Chainsaw Man and Fire Punch, where you have a talented creator make something weird and kind of brilliant and very flawed, then follow up with a refined work that does better, both artistically and financially... so a bunch of people start insisting the first work is better because it acts as a shibboleth. You, the real fans, like the inferior work better. But again, maybe that's just me being an rear end in a top hat
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Aug 16, 2022 00:12
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I played Automata first, then og nier. Automata is easily the better game overall and I wouldn't have finished Nier without being curious about the details of the backstory. I like both stories about the same but Nier's music is mournful and foreboding i feel like it did a better job of fitting the game than Automata's and I get a much more emotional reaction just from hearing them. I'm kinda mixed on the new OST, overall I like the originals more but some were at least as good. The really good Nier remixes were the orchestral arrangements.
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Aug 16, 2022 00:51
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Automata is the better game. Replicant exists because I don't know how many people had the stomach to play OG Nier again. You don't have to love Replicant, but if you didn't mind the ride I'd say the remake was worth it.
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Aug 16, 2022 01:02
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Lord_Magmar posted:They believed the father/daughter relationship would resonate more with the western playerbase than the older brother/younger sister one as a narrative impetus/hook. Also while I like both of them, i find papa nier's version more compelling due to a couple of minor changes. Like, for example: -Starting the story as child nier running errands for money is very much "standard plucky JRPG protagonist". Thats just what you do, as a 14 year old. It's monumentally funnier and more relateable when the person doing everyone's odd jobs to scrounge up cash is like. Fourty. I love papa nier because he is, at heart, kind of a loser. -See also Nier going "we're your FRIENDS, kaine!!" immediately after the Hook bossfight. Plucky JRPG protagonist doing power of friendship is one thing, but it hits different when it's coming out of a gary busey-lookalike. -Kaine telling Emil that of course she could tell it was him after the timeskip, don't be ridiculous (because he's currently EXTREMELY self concious about being a skeleton boy) and immediately turning to Nier who looks almost identical but with an eyepatch and going "you look like poo poo" (but in a good natured way) is objectively funny as hell. It sums up their dynamic perfectly. edit: this isnt to say that i dislike bro nier, he has his own charms. I just kinda wish they'd port the original version of the game to steam or something, because both games have their own unique appeal. The only change they need to make to the original is to patch in Weiss floating alongside Papa Nier's head, because it's dumb that he only comes out when doing magic. Blaziken386 fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 01:08
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I’m not familiar with any of it outside of Automata. Are Replicant and Gestalt remixes of Nier?
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Aug 16, 2022 01:11
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that was literally just explained Redezga posted:This is just something from the development section of the Nier fandom page, but it seems like it there was a lot of reason but mostly they were told by the people doing the western localisation that considering the tone of the game it didn't work with a skinny teen swinging a big sword and the Japanese end of things just decided to trust them on that with mixed results.
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Aug 16, 2022 01:14
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There's just something about playing as an older man in a dystopia, where your best days are behind you and you're just desperately clinging to keeping your kid healthy. I think the change fit in pretty well with the setting. Bro Nier is fine, no issues with that. Just a different vibe--the younger guy has a life ahead of him to explore.
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Aug 16, 2022 01:17
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I like the Nier replicant soundtrack better than Automata's (but Automata's is still one of the best video game soundtracks i've ever heard). I'm not fluent enough in music talk to explain why, but there just weren't any tracks on Automata that hit me quite as hard as some of the original ones (Shadowlord theme and Gods Bound by Rules are probably my standouts, and I instinctively tear up a little at Emil's theme). I also got more attached to the characters than any of the ones in Automata; maybe it's because I had a harder time immediately caring about androids (ok, I know, but you can only react to the information in the order that the game gives it to you, and for most of Replicant/Gestalt, you're supposed to think you're human), I dunno. I also think that the Big Twist in Nier 1 hits harder than anything in the sequel, not that Automata was lacking at all on the nihilism front either. Automata's a much stronger video game and is more fun to play for sure, even after the Replicant remake, but the original has a spot in my heart. Maybe it is just because I played it first, and there's nothing like being Yoko Taro'd for your first time, and everything after that is just chasing the dragon (into a portal, finding yourself in modern day tokyo, where you promptly explode into mysterious dust) As for the original vs. the remake soundtrack, I'm embarrassed to say that generally speaking, I don't really hear the difference unless I'm hearing the tracks side by side; it's been so long since I played the original release that the new arrangements weren't so noticeably different to me when I was playing, with the exception of Gods Bound by Rules, which needed much more drum Organza Quiz posted:It just makes more sense with them as siblings. The whole setup of the townsfolk giving him busywork chores so that he can earn money for himself and his sister is much more natural if he's a kid that they're taking pity on, tbh this still works with papa nier, and if anything makes it even more crushing. Desperate middle-aged man needs help for his daughter but is too proud to accept charity, so the townsfolk keep up a little charade to help salvage his pride. on some level he probably knows, but he can't think of a better solution
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Aug 16, 2022 01:19
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He also has more life left to be ruined, perfect for Taro
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Aug 16, 2022 01:19
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hatty posted:He also has more life left to be ruined, perfect for Taro This is true!
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Aug 16, 2022 01:21
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hatty posted:He also has more life left to be ruined, perfect for Taro Yeah I'm team papa nier, but I have to begrudgingly admit that that works better, thematically, for the timeskip. Papa nier just gets a little older, uglier, and angrier, but brother nier loses his entire childlike innocence e: also, I can't believe they thought that a generation who grew up playing FF7 would have difficulty getting behind a "twink with a giant sword" protagonist Ainsley McTree fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 01:22
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While I do like papa nier and he was the one I started with, I think his relationship with Yona is a just little more relatable/resonant with us filthy westerners than brother nier's with yona, but by the end of the game with brother nier I did feel it. However, I do think papa nier's relationship with kaine falls completely flat and weird compared to brother nier. I also have a hard time buying Emil has a crush on papa nier haha
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Aug 16, 2022 01:50
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I listen to the original soundtrack a lot and I liked most of the new remixes except I absolutely hated what they did to the music from the Hansel & Gretel fight, which was one of my favourites before. Otherwise they were fun!
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Aug 16, 2022 01:51
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Also the relationship between Old Nier and Devola and Popala isn’t as interesting as with Young Nier. Everything just fits so much better
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Aug 16, 2022 01:55
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I really liked dad Nier when I played on the 360 version, but the remake with brother Nier hit me way harder overall, I really loved the remake in a way I didn't the original. The extra ending was maybe a little bit of fan service in the end but I really loved that too. The extra sidequest with the ferryman was nice. I'd like to play Automata again if the PC version ever goes on sale to a price I'd be fine rebuying a game at.
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Aug 16, 2022 02:02
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Mr E posted:I really liked dad Nier when I played on the 360 version, but the remake with brother Nier hit me way harder overall, I really loved the remake in a way I didn't the original. The extra ending was maybe a little bit of fan service in the end but I really loved that too. The extra sidequest with the ferryman was nice. I'd like to play Automata again if the PC version ever goes on sale to a price I'd be fine rebuying a game at. The current lowest price for the PC port is 20 bucks, which seems reasonable for a repurchase, depending on finances. Worth looking for a steam sale and that, but considering the game is still moving units, I think it's not likely to get much cheaper soon.
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Aug 16, 2022 02:39
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The biggest thing about Dad Nier, and I haven't played Replicant so maybe it's similar, is that his entire life was devoted to helping his sick daughter, and he honestly didn't really care about anything else besides getting her healthy. Back when I played it on the x360 me and my roommate would constantly quote him because he's voiced to say tons of things like "I don't have time for this, MY DAUGHTER IS SICK!" and complain about wasting his time while he needs to get back to his daughter. I don't need it spelled out, but I've noticed from reading a bit here and there that Bro Nier has a significantly different personality and motivation.
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Aug 16, 2022 02:40
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Ainsley McTree posted:Yeah I'm team papa nier, but I have to begrudgingly admit that that works better, thematically, for the timeskip. Papa nier just gets a little older, uglier, and angrier, but brother nier loses his entire childlike innocence FFVII was over ten years before NieR. This is just my experience online talking about JRPGs back in the 2000s but the late 2000s and early 2010s was not a friendly place for JRPG fans. Everything was "too anime" and "emo." So many JRPGs that came out around this time had a pretty extreme backlash. I think one of the most consistent praises for NieR after TDI popularized it around here was all about how it featured an older protagonist and not some whiny teenager. And finally, Cloud was at least 21. That still beats the common 16/17/18-year-old MC.
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Aug 16, 2022 02:51
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chiasaur11 posted:But again, maybe that's just me being an rear end in a top hat Nah, Replicant is the Earthbound to Automata’s Mother 3, the latter is unambiguously a way better video game but whether or not Replicant or Automata resonates more with someone is down to personal preference. Honestly purely on story terms I think I prefer Replicant to Automata since it’s the story of a kid becoming more and more unhinged as the idea of a kid trying to help his sister gets subverted and perverse more and more, dragging his friends along the way, but even then Replicant loses out in a sense since the side quests are mostly just tedious fetch quests you’re doing for incidental banter and virtually all of Automata’s are glimpses into the world on top of often being pretty good black comedy. As for music, I never played Nier PS3 but the new OST seems more energetic from where I can tell, so get people preferring the old one, but at the same time goddamn is “Shadowlord’s Castle (Roar)” not nearly energetic enough in its original form. I appreciate Automata’s OST more cause even besides the stuff they tell you are remixes Dispossession gets used a bit and it’s nice to hear Starry Night after playing Replicant.
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Aug 16, 2022 03:04
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pentyne posted:The biggest thing about Dad Nier, and I haven't played Replicant so maybe it's similar, is that his entire life was devoted to helping his sick daughter, and he honestly didn't really care about anything else besides getting her healthy. Back when I played it on the x360 me and my roommate would constantly quote him because he's voiced to say tons of things like "I don't have time for this, MY DAUGHTER IS SICK!" and complain about wasting his time while he needs to get back to his daughter. Dad Nier has devoted his life to Yonah and that made him happy, Bro Nier has devoted his life to Yonah and is kind of miserable for it. Is at least my basic understanding.
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Aug 16, 2022 03:11
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I think the difference between the two is that in order to appreciate Automata, you pretty much need to suffer from existential dread and possibly other mental illnesses IRL. Replicant is much more universally relatable/understandable because it's essentially a sympathetic villain story, which is actually becoming quite cliche nowadays.beep by grandpa posted:I remember literally shaking n crying n throwing up when I first heard about it thinking they'd ruin it but I honestly think almost every track is an impossible improvement over the incredible originals other than the Ashes of Dreams ending themes (specifically the vocals sound significantly better to me in the originals). I agree, I don't know what it is but the original ending songs are way better vocally to me. Everything else is pretty good. Hikaki fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 03:17
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start here -- https://lparchive.org/NIER/
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Aug 16, 2022 03:19
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Hikaki posted:I think the difference between the two is that in order to appreciate Automata, you pretty much need to suffer from existential dread and possibly other mental illnesses IRL. Replicant is much more universally relatable/understandable because it's essentially a sympathetic villain story, which is actually becoming quite cliche nowadays. Maybe I should play Nier A then since existential dread is a pretty big thing for me and a huge reason I read the philosophy and stuff that I do. But as for Nier being about a "sympathetic villain"...I guess but only if we say everyone is a villain because obviously the horrible monsters trying to steal the bodies of innocent people are bad, too. Whatever they were a long time ago, the Shades are nothing but parasites now and Yonah's brief time being possessed by her Shade counterpart is clearly horrific. So horrific that Shade Yonah chooses to die rather than continue to inflict this suffering on her. The only good and innocent person I can remember is the robot and his little buddy.
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Aug 16, 2022 03:27
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Hikaki posted:I think the difference between the two is that in order to appreciate Automata, you pretty much need to suffer from existential dread and possibly other mental illnesses IRL. Replicant is much more universally relatable/understandable because it's essentially a sympathetic villain story, which is actually becoming quite cliche nowadays. What do you need in order to appreciate Drakengard?
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Aug 16, 2022 03:29
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pentyne posted:What do you need in order to appreciate Drakengard? To hate children.
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Aug 16, 2022 03:31
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