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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001

Well, I stabbed my way through most of DS2 with the rapier, so I can see the attraction to the spear. Being able to switch to a sweepy moveset on transformation looks really useful too.

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Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
There's nothing wrong with it, don't take my personal "eh" feelings as gospel. Hell, properly gem'd and with your stats distributed to the soft caps, this might be a secret monster!

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.


Finally using a different weapon

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
New weapon seems to be too short for your playstyle. Might I suggest a longer one that also closes distance, like the Threaded Cane?

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Simply Simon posted:

New weapon seems to be too short for your playstyle. Might I suggest a longer one that also closes distance, like the Threaded Cane?

:hmmyes:

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Realtalk tho: the door that just randomly opens is loving stupid. The trigger for it to happen is killing BSB, and it makes no sense whatsoever. I kept running past it on my first playthrough, and when I looked up stuff I had missed way late in the game, the wiki was like "oh you reach [x] through the workshop" and I was like what. where

As Nat will probably know by now (spoilering just in case), this is what makes Cleric Beast optional, sure didn't feel like it at first though.

Added bonus? Him saying "I don't know where to go now" was also me for quite a while, another thing I had to look up. Spoilering everything about that as well, though I will remain vague within: actual game progress is also not obvious at all, or rather that Nat already got a key of sorts

I almost figured it out, but then I got lost trying to find the place to confirm my suspicion, so I caved. Not the funnest or most well-made part of the game imo

SerSpook
Feb 13, 2012




Simply Simon posted:

Realtalk tho: the door that just randomly opens is loving stupid. The trigger for it to happen is killing BSB, and it makes no sense whatsoever. I kept running past it on my first playthrough, and when I looked up stuff I had missed way late in the game, the wiki was like "oh you reach [x] through the workshop" and I was like what. where

As Nat will probably know by now (spoilering just in case), this is what makes Cleric Beast optional, sure didn't feel like it at first though.

Added bonus? Him saying "I don't know where to go now" was also me for quite a while, another thing I had to look up. Spoilering everything about that as well, though I will remain vague within: actual game progress is also not obvious at all, or rather that Nat already got a key of sorts

I almost figured it out, but then I got lost trying to find the place to confirm my suspicion, so I caved. Not the funnest or most well-made part of the game imo

Agreed. Bloodborne is probably my favorite game, the only game I have platinum on, but it can be, uh, obtuse at times.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Aug 6, 2022

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
I think what's happened there is that you managed to hit Eileen right before the other guy finished her, because that sounded like a you-pissed-me-off-prepare-to-die speech you'd normally get by attacking her. Maybe you nailed her with the anti-healing item?

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
The enemies didn't actually change because the world changed - there's another reason...

Navigating around Cathedral Ward is kinda heavy, yeah. As you discovered, going straight up the stairs is just not the best idea, enemies having eye lanterns now (look closely) notwithstanding - the "change" didn't add any more dudes, or give them guns, or whatever. They have always been there.

Anyway, if you do go through old areas with open eyes and mind instead of insisting that it's old and therefore bad and you just want to move on, you learn more about them and maybe discover paths you missed and also it makes navigating a lot smoother. I realize that this is an LP and you do want to see and deliver new content; however, I do think it's worth pointing out.


By the way, I have no idea what brick wall Tea is talking about. But everyone has different things they just cannot deal with. Mine was BSB as said, and not many things afterwards came close to that level of "gently caress this so hard, I'll never get through this".


EDIT: Tea is just giving you horrible advice this video, lol. You do not have to "book it" into Henryk's arena - you can in fact casually drop down to the right (where the bauble was), sneak up on him, and backstab his rear end. Eileen takes forever to show up, as you discovered yourself. Also, rip

anilEhilated posted:

I think what's happened there is that you managed to hit Eileen right before the other guy finished her, because that sounded like a you-pissed-me-off-prepare-to-die speech you'd normally get by attacking her. Maybe you nailed her with the anti-healing item?
I'm pretty sure Nat's last swing both aggro'd and killed her, and the "you hosed up now" dialogue overrode the death one

Simply Simon fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Aug 5, 2022

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


I am so happy they eventually made quests and such far less finicky, with summoning and specters and whatever, to let the player iterate until they don't gently caress up, oh sure the style at the time heightens the tension and furthermore: I'm glad it's over.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Wanted to point out btw that this is the actual ideal outcome for people looking to get Eileen's drop here (is it a spoiler that it allows you to buy her weapon?) mostly hassle-free. You can of course try and fight her for it when you first encounter her, but, uh, good luck.

Blessing in disguise?!

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."
I literally said this at the beginning of the thread, you can continue rallying off of dead enemies for a couple swings, so those enemies at zero health Nat's been whacking? They were dead, just in the middle of their death animations, and Nat got health back because that's just how rallying works.

Additionally, York is just plain wrong about falling deaths. If you fall to your death, one of two things happens. If the pit is bottomless or the fall is long enough that it's instant death from any height, your Blood Echoes will be placed near the edge you fell from. If the surface was close enough that you could fall safely with just minor damage, but your health was low so the lesser fall damage finished you off, the Blood Echoes will be placed where you died. In both cases, it's possible for an enemy in the area to absorb the Blood Echoes, as usual.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.
That specific instance is true and I promise I intentionally stab corpses to rally.

But I've seen a bunch of dudes survive at pixel health and even saw one survive and then eat a gunshot at pixel.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


Gunshots also do pixel health damage so that tracks.

Slaan
Mar 16, 2009



ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH
I can't figure out what brick wall Tea is talking about. I never hit one until Moon and lake, and that's far off

Slaan fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Aug 9, 2022

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Slaan posted:

I can't figure out what brick wall Tea is talking about. I never hit one until Moon and lake, and that's far off
Shadows is a boss that's super easy for some and insanely hard for others, and for many players also navigation is a hard boss :v: - maybe it's that.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."
You're a little mixed up about your churches. The church you seemed to be thinking of is Oedon Chapel, while the Great Cathedral is where you fought Vicar Amelia. So, "to the right" in that context is a little easier to parse, because it obviously means to the right when approaching the cathedral, because the interior is a dead end.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

EclecticTastes posted:

You're a little mixed up about your churches. The church you seemed to be thinking of is Oedon Chapel, while the Great Cathedral is where you fought Vicar Amelia. So, "to the right" in that context is a little easier to parse, because it obviously means to the right when approaching the cathedral, because the interior is a dead end.
He's still right about being confused, the directions could easily mean "go out the cathedral, then to the right" as well as "approach the cathedral, then turn right". It's a videogame-rear end problem, if this game had a map you could say "to the east" and then it'd be clear.

I disagree with it being a useless hint, and I don't know why Nat is so dismissive of it? There's two possible directions no matter how you read it. Just try it?! If you dead-end at some point or go to far, that probably wasn't it, if you find it, it was it.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.
It comes from a place where I haven't correctly identified the difference between the Cathedral and the Chapel. (This comes up later) And at this point I've got a picture of the Chapel in my head, realise that it's a circle and have decided that I'm not going to try my hand at navigating there.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Natural 20 posted:

It comes from a place where I haven't correctly identified the difference between the Cathedral and the Chapel. (This comes up later) And at this point I've got a picture of the Chapel in my head, realise that it's a circle and have decided that I'm not going to try my hand at navigating there.
alright, that makes a lot of sense actually

"how can the LPer be so down on a navigational challenge while rear end-deep in the Woods", the watcher without empathy asks

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

I am just glad Nat seems to be settling into the game and enjoying it more as he goes throughout the woods.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.


Apologies for the late release everyone! I was out longer than expected.

Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Aug 13, 2022

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

Natural 20 posted:



Apologies for the late release everyone! I was out longer than expected.

The old multiboss routine, I wonder how long it will take Nat to get used to it and just crush them like the mantis lords.

Slaan
Mar 16, 2009



ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH
No idea how this boss could be hard. I beat it so fast with Ludwig's blade on my first attempt that i never even knew that the guys transform!

I guess everyone has a boss that doesn't gel with their play style.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


We've gotten a good way in but we should say it is very important in souls games to make sure you exhaust the dialogue of everyone you talk to.

Simply Simon
Nov 6, 2010

📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔
Are you just not going to explore the vast, vast woods?! I don't quite understand Tea just pulling you through the shortest route to the boss tbh. Half the fun is getting lost!


In other news, hell yeah Blades of Mercy. I haven't actually used them myself yet, but a buddy who played on my PS4 used them all the way through, so I know a lot about them by observation.

First of all, they are a siderite weapon, which means they have innate arcane damage, you can see that on the status screen. This means you cannot actually convert them into an elemental weapon, no fire gems for you! Also, I think, no fire or bolt paper. It's absolutely not worth investing in arcane to get more damage; it will stay just a small bonus. In fact, the arcane damage only applies for certain attacks: all of them that have a schwing and a gleam attached. That's the L2 double-blade backstep, and most notably, the sidestep attack. The sidestep R1 is actually among the highest damaging single attacks the BoM can do. However, this doesn't mean you should only use those ofc; in fact, this is the weapon I alluded to that keep increasing its damage as you go up the attack chain. Every hit of the combo does more damage, so turning into a blender on an enemy's rear end IS the best way to play BoM. It rules.

Slaan posted:

No idea how this boss could be hard. I beat it so fast with Ludwig's blade on my first attempt that i never even knew that the guys transform!

I guess everyone has a boss that doesn't gel with their play style.
I struggled quite a bit the first time around. I relied a lot on charged R2s with my Axe, and didn't yet realize that using it one-handed actually makes it do MORE damage. The two-handed swings are p slow, so it was hard to find good attack opportunities.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


You really nicely handled the shadows but keep in mind that summons and co-op and useables and such are in the game for a reason, it says "PREY SLAUGHTERED" all the same.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
Don't listen to them, friendship is for the weak.

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

Nat, you should pvp Tea, no cooperation, only stabbing

Guillermus
Dec 28, 2009



anilEhilated posted:

Don't listen to them, friendship is for the weak.

Having a madness problem and not sharing it with friends may make things more difficult. Seek help good hunter.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

SIGSEGV posted:

You really nicely handled the shadows but keep in mind that summons and co-op and useables and such are in the game for a reason, it says "PREY SLAUGHTERED" all the same.

This is going to get debated further.

But I just don't think winning with help is winning. I don't begrudge anyone who does that, but I would feel like I hadn't really won anything if Tea just murdered a boss while I watched or whatever. Or I just didn't have to deal with boss attacks because they were taunted by a summon.

After I've killed a boss I'm absolutely fine grabbing a party and stabbing it to death on a refight.

EclecticTastes
Sep 17, 2012

"Most plans are critically flawed by their own logic. A failure at any step will ruin everything after it. That's just basic cause and effect. It's easy for a good plan to fall apart. Therefore, a plan that has no attachment to logic cannot be stopped."

Natural 20 posted:

This is going to get debated further.

But I just don't think winning with help is winning. I don't begrudge anyone who does that, but I would feel like I hadn't really won anything if Tea just murdered a boss while I watched or whatever. Or I just didn't have to deal with boss attacks because they were taunted by a summon.

After I've killed a boss I'm absolutely fine grabbing a party and stabbing it to death on a refight.

There are four other Bloodborne LPs in the archive, and while the only one I've watched in full is CJacobs', I'm reasonably certain they all killed at least the vast majority of the bosses solo. It's completely achievable.

SIGSEGV
Nov 4, 2010


The one fight in which co-op is mandatory for full experience is the Old Monk fight in Demons' Souls, and that's not even needed to finish it or get extra items or anything.

Slaan
Mar 16, 2009



ASHERAH DEMANDS I FEAST, I VOTE FOR A FEAST OF FLESH
I'm glad you like the blades so much. From games are difficult and annoying... until you find the weapon you love. Once you do? :discourse:

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Guillermus
Dec 28, 2009



Slaan posted:

I'm glad you like the blades so much. From games are difficult and annoying... until you find the weapon you love. Once you do? :discourse:

I have a soft spot for Amy's Arm. It's Lovecraft meets Castlevania.

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