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The movies keep blowing poo poo up in cataclysmic ways in a universe where poo poo is meant to be all tense and political and diplomatic. The gravitational force of those movie events is shifting the Trek setting inexorably towards one where things are constantly exploding in dramatic fashion.
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Aug 16, 2022 16:18
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Brawnfire posted:The movies keep blowing poo poo up in cataclysmic ways in a universe where poo poo is meant to be all tense and political and diplomatic. The gravitational force of those movie events is shifting the Trek setting inexorably towards one where things are constantly exploding in dramatic fashion. And that lies squarely on the TNG movies shoulders too for setting that direction. I guess you have JJ's fetish for blowing up planets to blame for escalating it, but that was the trajectory of all the movies but Insurrection. Which still had it's own dumb action movie beats it wanted to ape.
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Aug 16, 2022 16:23
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I think what is most frustrating about Picard in either Seasons is that they have some interesting set ups and the crew is acting their heart out and it all leads to...nothing. Nothing new about the borg, or the federation, or whatever. I don't think Picard is as bad as everyone here thinks it is but it is probably the biggest disappointment because there is something that that could be done with like some focus.
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Aug 16, 2022 16:25
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I think two enemies being put in a situation where they have to work together is very TNG, so the whole premise they started with, with the super nova happening, but there being time to organise an evacuation was interesting. Then they just tossed it all away for secret robot apocalypse prophesy cults and threw in the borg that didn't end up going anywhere
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Aug 16, 2022 16:55
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I mean it’s pretty well documented they just made it up as they went along. So much so that they had to do pretty substantial reshoots for the first two episodes because the season ended up making even less sense than what we got, IIRC.
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Aug 16, 2022 17:06
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Eimi posted:And that lies squarely on the TNG movies shoulders too for setting that direction. I guess you have JJ's fetish for blowing up planets to blame for escalating it, but that was the trajectory of all the movies but Insurrection. Which still had it's own dumb action movie beats it wanted to ape. While I agree that TNG movies skewed the direction of what was expected from the new shows (and B5, BSG, later Expanse did their fair share) towards stupid melodramatic action stuff where everyone has dark past and are broken as a person, the first four Star Trek movies all have planet-killer weapon involved in the main plot. TNG movies make a mess of many things, but "making stories about blowing up planets" isn't on them or JJ.
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Aug 16, 2022 17:24
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Boxturret posted:I think two enemies being put in a situation where they have to work together is very TNG, There's The Enemy, of course. And Sisko and Ducat get stranded together on a planet, and Sisko and his crew crash on the same planet as some Jem Hadar. Didn't Kira get stranded with Dukat somewhere and had to help him pull a splinter out of his rear end, or is that the Sisko one?
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Aug 16, 2022 18:23
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Der Kyhe posted:the first four Star Trek movies all have planet-killer weapon involved in the main plot. TMP: A nigh-godlike alien who only destroys ships that fire directly on it, and only threatens the Earth because it honestly doesn't believe that carbon units are worth considering, the same way you're not really concerned about the bacterial apocalypse you commit every time you brush your teeth or run your dishwasher. TWOK: naïve scientists are too busy thinking about if they could to wonder if they should. It's never really explained why Khan wants the genesis device, other than that he knows Kirk is involved; he never threatens anybody with it. He seems to take it specifically to piss off Kirk, and maybe in the back of his mind, he's thinking he can go make himself a better colony planet. At no point does he ever express any interest in attacking anybody other than Kirk. He only tortures Terrell and Chekov to get information on Kirk. He maroons the rest of the Reliant crew rather than beaming them into space or stuffing them out the airlocks. He tortures the Regula-1 staff, again, to get information on Kirk. TSFS: Klingons, on the other hand, are well aware that the Federation, were they so inclined, could simply genesis-nuke their planets, then build condos and ski resorts. Kruuge seems to want it for glory and bragging rights, and in the back of his mind, probably balance of power issues. TVH: See TMP, only instead of looking for Jackson Roykirk, excuse me, The Creator, they're looking for whales. Again, not a planet killing weapon, just a byproduct of being life, Jim, but not as we know it. The same way digging up your lawn to put in a new septic system is very unpleasant for the things already living there.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:44
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Mooseontheloose posted:I think what is most frustrating about Picard in either Seasons is that they have some interesting set ups and the crew is acting their heart out and it all leads to...nothing. Nothing new about the borg, or the federation, or whatever. I don't think Picard is as bad as everyone here thinks it is but it is probably the biggest disappointment because there is something that that could be done with like some focus. Picard has big "anime filler arc" energy.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:47
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Eimi posted:I think you could do good stuff with the destruction of Romulus plot if you had really good writers who were into the Romulans and exploring and expanding their culture beyond "sneaky bad guys". I don't trust any of modern Trek's writers to do that properly, especially not after Picard. That's something I'll at least give Michael Chabon credit for, he was that person on paper. He really wanted to explore the aftermath of what the loss of Romulus did to the Romulan people and the politics of the Alpha Quadrant, and expand the culture of the Romulans beyond being the sneaky bad guys. The problem was that he sucked at it, AND he kept getting railroaded by Patrick Stewart and the 80,000 executive producers into doing whatever weird bullshit they wanted to do and he had no game to push back with because he'd never helmed a television show before. Dude was the wrong man in the wrong place with the right idea.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:48
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Now they're the sneaky bad guys who are also into woo woo Gwyneth Paltrow poo poo
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Aug 16, 2022 18:55
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This space candle smells like my forehead vagina
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Aug 16, 2022 19:09
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After the death of Senator Vreenak, the Romulans lost the ability to tell what was real and what wasn't.
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Aug 16, 2022 19:11
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Ignoring the actual content of the show, Picard would probably make a fascinating behind the scenes production documentary showing exactly how we ended up with the show we got.
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Aug 16, 2022 19:14
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Arrinien posted:Ignoring the actual content of the show, Picard would probably make a fascinating behind the scenes production documentary showing exactly how we ended up with the show we got. Especially Season 2. I really want to know the inside scoop on a season that basically was showrunner-less and being quarterbacked by the MFA grad program interns in the writers room for school credit.
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Aug 16, 2022 19:20
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Arrinien posted:Ignoring the actual content of the show, Picard would probably make a fascinating behind the scenes production documentary showing exactly how we ended up with the show we got.
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Aug 16, 2022 19:21
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nine-gear crow posted:Especially Season 2. I really want to know the inside scoop on a season that basically was showrunner-less and being quarterbacked by the MFA grad program interns in the writers room for school credit. Whenever a show is set in and around Los Angeles I assume the issue is budget. "We've been transported back to 2022, directly onto what appears to be some sort of soundstage belonging to a kind of 'television company' known as Paramount"
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Aug 16, 2022 20:06
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zoux posted:Whenever a show is set in and around Los Angeles I assume the issue is budget. "We've been transported back to 2022, directly onto what appears to be some sort of soundstage belonging to a kind of 'television company' known as Paramount" They were attempting Voyage Home, the series. PIC S2 is few good ideas done adequate to badly.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:10
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zoux posted:Whenever a show is set in and around Los Angeles I assume the issue is budget. "We've been transported back to 2022, directly onto what appears to be some sort of soundstage belonging to a kind of 'television company' known as Paramount" Yeah, I assume all the budget was being saved for
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Aug 16, 2022 20:16
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Der Kyhe posted:They were attempting Voyage Home, the series. PIC S2 is few good ideas done adequate to badly. I still can't believe the entire crux of the season shook out to be Q's insanely convoluted and frequently off-script plan to get Picard to go back to his old house in order to find a key, and then put the key back exactly where he found it. Jesus.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:20
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Whoever was behind the incest twins/siblings needs to answer for their crimes.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:27
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Eimi posted:Whoever was behind the incest twins/siblings needs to answer for their crimes. The best thing about those two characters was when they both died. Or in the case of Narek, when he just disappears halfway through episode 10 because they just forgot he existed, so he basically died for all intents and purposes 
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Aug 16, 2022 20:30
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The Bloop posted:This space candle smells like my FTFY, Dr. Crusher
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Aug 16, 2022 20:31
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Eimi posted:Whoever was behind the incest twins/siblings needs to answer for their crimes. Written for the screen by....Mark Millar!!
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Aug 16, 2022 20:32
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Eimi posted:Whoever was behind the incest twins/siblings needs to answer for their crimes. At least they were interesting characters who had an agenda and resources to be actual antagonists. The S2 has ICE agents and another Soong as the enemy. Soong was kneecapped by being completely under the thumb of Q who didn't ever want him to win, and the Borg Queen (which was one of the better acting works, all kudos to the actor) who was doomed by history to fail.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:37
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nine-gear crow posted:I still can't believe the entire crux of the season shook out to be Q's insanely convoluted and frequently off-script plan to get Picard to go back to his old house in order to find a key, and then put the key back exactly where he found it. Picard proving he has learned his lesson that he shouldn't try to change things. 5 minutes after he gives a Borg Queen from 300 years in evil-timeline future a starship and sets in motion an evil-genius's plan to create atomic supermen to take over the world.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:38
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Picard never left the Nexus. Everything that happens from around Nemesis onward is the illusion struggling to adjust on the fly so he won't notice he's still inside
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Aug 16, 2022 20:45
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Delsaber posted:Picard never left the Nexus. Everything that happens from around Nemesis onward is the illusion struggling to adjust on the fly so he won't notice he's still inside Picard had a debilitating stroke from his condition after All God Things and is in Talos IV next to Pike having a good one.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:48
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How early was Kirk in the Generation's script? From the jump or is it something they added in later in the process? Because imo he should not have been.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:52
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Der Kyhe posted:Picard had a debilitating stroke from his condition after All God Things and is in Talos IV next to Pike having a good one. Everything from the last ten minutes of Et In Arcadia, Ego Part 2 onward has just been Picard's consciousness unravelling as he lies dying on the floor of Soong's courtyard in Raffi's arms.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:55
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zoux posted:How early was Kirk in the Generation's script? From the jump or is it something they added in later in the process? Because imo he should not have been. The two big things they were told the movie had to do before they even started writing was a) bring together Kirk and Picard and b) destroy the Enterprise-D so they could replace it with something cooler.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:56
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zoux posted:How early was Kirk in the Generation's script? From the jump or is it something they added in later in the process? Because imo he should not have been. It was always going to be TOS with/against TNG movie; the original plans were in fact much stupider that what we got.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:57
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Der Kyhe posted:It was always going to be TOS with/against TNG movie; the original plans were in fact much stupider that what we got. Wasn’t it literally going to be Kirk vs Picard at some point
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Aug 16, 2022 21:47
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nine-gear crow posted:I still can't believe the entire crux of the season shook out to be Q's insanely convoluted and frequently off-script plan to get Picard to go back to his old house in order to find a key, and then put the key back exactly where he found it. Q's plan was to get Picard to confront his own past and move past his deep childhood trauma that was causing him to push others away. Presenting him with the key at the end allowed him to make a choice: does he accept what happened and who he has become as a result, or does he surrender to his trauma and try to change the future? Was Q's plan good? No. Was it presented well? Also no. But to boil it down to getting Picard to put a key behind a brick completely misses the theme of the entire season, which is about dealing with your trauma.
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Aug 16, 2022 22:35
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HD DAD posted:Wasn’t it literally going to be Kirk vs Picard at some point Moore and Braga knew the best image they could have for a crossover movie's poster was to have the two Enterprises battling each other, but they couldn't crack a story that didn't make one or both of the crews look like the villains.
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Aug 16, 2022 22:45
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Timby posted:Moore and Braga knew the best image they could have for a crossover movie's poster was to have the two Enterprises battling each other, but they couldn't crack a story that didn't make one or both of the crews look like the villains. "Crew is brainwashed/mindwiped/deceived" has got to be one of the most common TNG plots around. If the events of "Conundrum" didn't make the TNG crew look villainous, a non-lethal encounter with the TOS crew (or the reverse scenario) shouldn't be too bad, right?
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Aug 16, 2022 22:54
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“Both crews are under alien manipulation to think the other Enterprise is a Klingon and/or Romulan ship” would have been a cool solution. It even gives each captain a chance to remark on the other’s brilliant tactical abilities without knowing the other is Kirk or Picard.
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Aug 16, 2022 23:06
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HD DAD posted:Wasn’t it literally going to be Kirk vs Picard at some point The 50 year mission does not go into too many details about it but yes, the initial idea was something akin to "Kirk and TOS crew wants something to be saved, which Picard and TNG crew wants destroyed. And we get a space fight between costitution class Ent-A and Galaxy-class Ent-D".
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Aug 16, 2022 23:09
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I'm playing Ultimate Admiral: Dreadnought and feeling deep in my bones how bad I want a star trek game like this. Yeah I want to snap together hull, engine, command and weapon parts as my tech tree unlocks them, fiddle with details like speed, steering and various protection systems, and then play a campaign with a battle mode featuring my ships. But I want them to have glowing blue engines.
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Aug 16, 2022 23:18
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I want a PVP game much like War Thunder, with tech trees for each major galactic power, starting with the Enterprise era and ending with the TNG movie era.
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Aug 16, 2022 23:55
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