|
I don't think it's controversial to say that the prevalence, and not just the diagnosis, of allergies has increased, for reasons we don't fully understand. Ymmv but I don't see any reason both couldn't be true for autism.
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 03:32
|
|
i like nice words
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 14:05 |
|
|
Anne Whateley posted:I don't think it's controversial to say that the prevalence, and not just the diagnosis, of allergies has increased, for reasons we don't fully understand. Ymmv but I don't see any reason both couldn't be true for autism. Is there data on that? I could see more people surviving to adulthood with allergies than before, for certain.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 03:35
|
|
|
There's tons of data. Overview but feel free to google; the fact that it's happening really isn't controversial, the investigation and debate are just about the reasons for the rise. The increase is definitely not driven by "kid who had an epipen on hand so lived to adulthood." If a kid ate a peanut butter sandwich or got stung by a bee and stopped breathing in 1970, that wouldn't have been a medical mystery to them, it would have been documented -- it just hardly ever happened. Anne Whateley fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Aug 16, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 03:52
|
|
|
The theory I’ve seen for the increase in diagnoses that I give the most credence (aside from increased awareness) is the cultural changes and technological advancements that make certain conditions and behavior patterns more obvious. That is to say, there’s not dramatically more autistic people than there were before, percentage-wise, but the percentage of ‘invisible’ autistic people has declined.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 04:07
|
|
|
It's difficult to say for sure. Anecdotally, I'm 99% sure my dad and my grandmother/his mom were/are autistic, too. I know my grandmother wouldn't have been diagnosed back in the day, and it's not going to happen now. My dad was assigned dozens of possible diagnoses in his life that may have been avoided if his problems were re-framed a little. I feel like I was invisible, and now I've become visible. I'm AFAB. I exhibited a ton of autistic traits as a kid, and it was treated as some combination of eccentric, smart, and tomboy-ish. As I've grown older, the more people I've known that have been diagnosed, the more I started to see myself. That's just me, of course, but it makes me skeptical of claims that there's been an increase in actual prevalence as opposed to recognition. Autism isn't a fixed set of traits, and people like me live in different parts of the spectrum as we know it. Edited for clarity
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 04:18
|
|
|
Thanks for the book recommendations, everybody! I got most of them and will read through them to see if there is anything my mother could use.RPATDO_LAMD posted:Here's a question: Do y'all ever have trouble picking out human voices in areas with a ton of background noise, especially background chatter from other people speaking like a cafeteria or something? I got hearing aids briefly in high school but never really used them cus they just made everything louder, and the inability to pick out voices from a big cloud of background voices isn't really a relative frequency thing. I feel like I read online at some point that this could be an autism thing, like the language/hearing center of the brain is worse at prioritizing speech from background noise or something, but IDK how many other people have this experience Yes. So much. They'll be standing right next to me and I can't make out what they're saying because so many other people are talking. Watching the speaker's face helps, as in I can make out some things and fill in the rest, but it's really difficult. Or when I'm in the backseat of a driving car and the people in front are talking. If the radio is also playing, I might as well give up, I won't hear a thing. People talking will just mix into a giant blob of sound, along with the background noises. One of the reasons I love music so much is probably because it's the only thing that doesn't blob for me. I'm able to follow the music and focus on it in a way that I can't do with other sounds. Of course that does lead to the obvious issue with any social situation where music is playing, but it's not like that's make a difference at a party. organburner posted:And quite often someone says something to me, I go "what?" then my brain interprets the words they said and now my what is redundant and it makes me feel like an rear end. It's so loving embarassing whenever that happens!
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 05:35
|
|
|
Am I too grimdark if I suggest that a lot of the autistic kids from generations past just didn't make it to public school education? Infanticide of the disabled is as old as dirt.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 06:07
|
|
|
That, and they would frequently be institutionalised, meaning they would never grow up to be higher functioning adults.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 09:47
|
|
|
Papa Was A Video Toaster posted:Am I too grimdark if I suggest that a lot of the autistic kids from generations past just didn't make it to public school education? Infanticide of the disabled is as old as dirt. Some of the "treatments" for autism have historically been pretty grimdark.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 11:00
|
|
|
Anne Whateley posted:I don't think it's controversial to say that the prevalence, and not just the diagnosis, of allergies has increased, for reasons we don't fully understand. Ymmv but I don't see any reason both couldn't be true for autism. Two things worth noting: Firstly that there are very strong hereditary links with autism and neurodiversity in families, and that it's incredibly common for a younger person to get diagnosed, and then for all of their older relatives 'quirks' to suddenly get contextualised in light of a medical professional saying "this trait / problem is absolutely an autism thing." There are a ton of people with autism walking around who have adapted well enough that they think it's not a problem until they see something on TV that clicks, or have a breakdown from trying to hold it together. For me this was the Chris Packham documentary on the BBC, but the point is that there are now more people diagnosed with autism, people talk about it more, people understand it more, and there's way more visibility. In the same way that trans visibility and trans acceptance have given people more common access to language to understand what's going on and realise that it's ok to feel/be this way (and they don't have to exhaust themselves pretending to to be), autism being more visible has led more people to look at their own behaviour and that's a good thing. Like there's very, very clear hereditary links, and almost no evidence that it's environmental except that it feels like it might be to older people. Statistically, it's leaning incredibly strongly toward hereditary causes (logically as well), to the point that it's really hard to make the environmental argument without relying entirely on uncle vibes. But even taking those vibes at face value, there's less coal in the air and lead in the water supply now - maybe autism is how humans are 'supposed' to think and boomers all have coal / lead poisoning? That might sound harsh, but it's no worse than OP's uncle accusing us of being brain poisoned. Also they can't accuse environmental factors of causing behavioural changes, and then ignore the environmental factors behind their upbringing. Especially since their IS evidence of coal / lead being harmful, but uncle says something 'might' be affecting behaviour. Anyway, secondly; there currently is no 'blood test' or genetic screening for autism. Currently it's diagnosed via behavioural tests,* and as we understand the condition more, those behaviours get spotted more in schools, colleges, workplaces and the legal / medical system. This is not a condition that has suddenly emerged, it's a condition that's always been here and we were just ignoring it because past generations were a lot more mean spirited and lovely toward strughling kids. And the second we reach the point where there is a genetic screen or blood test, or a 'cause' for it, we reach a point that is incredibly worrying for autistic people - the point at which we stop existing because allistic people can choose for us to not be born. That's straight up eugenics. That's why it is controversial to say, because putting it down to an environmental factor means GSK releasing an autism pill, or kids being aborted before they have a chance to exist. It denies us an existence and authenticity a lot of us are only just coming to terms with accepting, and pathologises us as a condition to be cured or prevented. Which is absolutely how groups like Autism Speaks already discuss us. * Which is why I have a huge problem with Sheldon from Big Bang, especially as an adult. He has autistic behaviour. He is mocked for the behaviours associated with autism. But the showrunners get around their ableism by saying 'he was tested.' It's a behavioural diagnosis. In the same way autistic visibility is good, Sheldon sets back autism representation by giving a very visible figurehead for autism denial. organburner posted:Some of the "treatments" for autism have historically been pretty grimdark. Again, this is why viewing autism as something to be 'cured' is such a huge problem.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 12:12
|
|
|
excellent post, Bobby, and I fully agree. you were able to phrase my objections with the possible environmental causes statement much more eloquently.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 12:24
|
|
|
There's also that the more 'milder' forms of autism would have been contextualized a lot differently in the days where kids were mostly educated at home, and worked with their family, and outside socialization was when you rolled up into town for church or whatever. This is not to romanticize the past. It absolutely was a loving poo poo show for people with many forms of disabilities, but a kid who would probably absolutely get pegged for autism now in public schools, was often in smaller settings more along the lines of "Well, Jebidiah doesn't talk too much at town gatherings, but he watches the sheep real good."
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 16:42
|
|
|
broken pixel posted:I'm AFAB. I exhibited a ton of autistic traits as a kid, and it was treated as some combination of eccentric, smart, and tomboy-ish. As I've grown older, the more people I've known that have been diagnosed, the more I started to see myself. As a cis woman, that was also me growing up. I've always known I wasn't Neurotypical but it took AFAB people posting autism memes on Youtube to finally fully admit that to myself. FWIW, I was diagnosed with NVLD as a kid because I looked my mom in the eyes when I spoke.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 19:37
|
|
|
Watching Big Bang Theory sans laugh track is wildly funny precisely because of how unfunny it is. It's a group of absolutely miserable people leading miserable lives, and tbh, it is probably the most existentially terrifying thing to ever air on TV.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2022 23:54
|
|
|
A Festivus Miracle posted:Watching Big Bang Theory sans laugh track is wildly funny precisely because of how unfunny it is. It's a group of absolutely miserable people leading miserable lives, and tbh, it is probably the most existentially terrifying thing to ever air on TV. So are you saying its actually accurate in its portrayal of nerds? 
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 04:48
|
|
|
Bobby Deluxe posted:. That wasn't him, nor was it anything him and I talked about. We didn't discuss causes, just the increased incidence he observed. The causes thing was something me, an autistic person, has been thinking about on my own. And no one said anything about cure.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 08:28
|
|
|
SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:And no one said anything about cure.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 10:41
|
|
|
If you told me you had a cure for my various brainworms that may or may not be autism or ADD I'd be skeptical but also I'd probably want it. Then again I only recently started figuring this out so I've not come to terms with it yet exactly. My opinion may change over time. One thing I always wonder about is, what about the people on the very extreme end of the spectrum who aren't really "functional"? Some people don't want a "cure" for autism and I don't know that there will ever be a "cure" for autism and I'm far from an expert on this stuff, only glanced at it in passing really. But how much do the current methods help those who can't take care of themselves?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 12:31
|
|
|
I'm probably in the minority here in that I view my autism as a disability, not being different. If there's a sensible 'cure' for it, I'll probably take it. I'd also not want for my children to be autistic, not that I ever plan on having any.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 17:23
|
|
|
I should emphasize that this is my opinion about myself, not anyone else. I don't doubt that others can lead happy, fulfilling lives while also being autistic, and not see it as a disability at all, I see them do it, and I don't mean to belittle that.
Dance Officer fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Aug 17, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 17:29
|
|
|
Autism is a disability, in that society is not set up to accommodate it, and an impairment, in that it presents neurological difficulties that neurotypical people don't have to experience whether or not accommodations for said difficulties exist. I experience it as both a disability and an impairment. But I don't want to be "cured" of autism any more than I'd want to be "cured" of being a cis woman in a cis man-dominated world. Would my life be easier in a lot of ways if I were neurotypical, or a man? Absolutely. But my autism and my womanhood are intrinsic parts of my identity and I can only speculate about who I'd be without them. I like the way I am, and I don't want to change.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 17:41
|
|
|
Pththya-lyi posted:I like the way I am, and I don't want to change. Yeah this is where we differ because I don't like the way I am
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 18:04
|
|
|
The only times I don't like being me is in contrast to the expectations of others, or the accommodations that society is willing to make. I used to feel sad that I "couldn't do things." Now mostly I get sad that allistic people not only refuse to make space to accommodate my way of being, but they seem to get really angry and defensive about people wanting to do things differently, let alone needing to. If there was universal basic income and I could just eke out my own little existence, I would be perfectly happy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 18:34
|
|
|
It'd be pretty cool if there was medication to support your ways of coping with things. If I could take a pill before a get-together that would help me filter all those noises, actually follow the conversation and not get tired after a short while from the effort, that would be a huge help and significantly improve my social life and overall stress levels. Thinking about it, this is actually a really bad example. It should be acceptable for me to just take a bit of time off during a social event if I need it, without people questioning or complaining. Or the encounter I had this week, when I called a senior colleague and asked him two questions related to a task he had previously handled. Both of my questions were pretty much "I think I should do X here, but would like to confirm with you that this is how you've handled it before.". Instead of giving me a clear answer, he kept talking around the subject and asking me a ton of questions back, and I had no idea where he was even going with this, except for a vague impression that he was waiting for a specific answer and I had no idea what it was. Better social awareness would probably have helped me here, but in the same vein, it should have been very obvious to him that I was nervous and confused and his way of handling this wasn't working. I don't think this is entirely on me here. As it is, the only thing I've learned is that I will ask someone else in the future.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 06:32
|
|
|
Cloacamazing! posted:It'd be pretty cool if there was medication to support your ways of coping with things. If I could take a pill before a get-together that would help me filter all those noises, actually follow the conversation and not get tired after a short while from the effort, that would be a huge help and significantly improve my social life and overall stress levels. I mean, nowadays it is acceptable a lot of the time. The thing is, I don't WANT to get massively overwhelmed because I hear a kid scream once or twice. I would like to be able to function normally in public without being a wreck later.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 07:16
|
|
|
Cloacamazing! posted:It'd be pretty cool if there was medication to support your ways of coping with things. If I could take a pill before a get-together that would help me filter all those noises, actually follow the conversation and not get tired after a short while from the effort, that would be a huge help and significantly improve my social life and overall stress levels. Just look at how the world views antidepressants. A lot of people taking quick-acting anti-anxiety meds to get through an episode or a bad day. But once it's there as an option, it means you are seen as having a 'cure' and so the rest of the world will expect you to take it all the time, even if the side effects are terrible or prolonged use is bad for you. I'm thinking particularly of older ADHD medication, which would let the person focus and motivate themselves for a few hours, but caused heart problems if used long-term. And it was never used just when the person needed it, it was expected to be taken regularly, even after the science started to show that doing so caused real damage. I know a lot of modern options don't have side effects that bad, but it's horrifying to me that so many peoples lives were cut short so that they would be better behaved in school or be able to hold down a job. Hell, look at how many allistic people get through their day using over-the-counter painkillers and end up with liver damage. A lot of jobs are not healthy for anyone, moreso for autistic and neurodivergent people. But the point is not that only autistic people shouldn't have to put up with it - the point is nobody should have to put up with it, and it hits autistic people hardest. I don't want to bring my own politics into it, but to me it comes down to is so many people out there being abusive and exploitative, and wilfully ignoring the science when someone has legitimate problems dealing with things, because the exploiter thinks that everyone should have to deal with hardship, even if it makes no goddamn sense.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 12:31
|
|
|
I would love to be working right now. I like having money. But I don’t like being treated like poo poo, having my stuff messed with, being expected to do extra stuff with no training, being left to work poo poo out myself in situations where getting it wrong is dangerous or costly. I don’t like having to be in the same room as, let alone work with, bullies, thieves, assholes, racists, abusers, even if they’ve never aimed those particular talents at me. I can’t handle workmates crying at their desks. I can’t handle wage theft or other inequity. I’m still trying to relearn how to look after myself and my home after escaping my previous toxic job, and knowing how much doing that job took from me, I have a great deal of trouble trusting that I can find a job that I can balance with everything else. I don’t feel like being autistic made me a bad worker or bad at my job, it just took everything I had to function in that environment and left nothing for me. No one should have to feel like that at work or because of work. Am I disabled? I don’t know. Right now it feels more like I’m recovering from an injury, although it’s to my psyche, not my body. I might have felt bad about it (burning out and quitting working) apart from a comment my mother made to me - she said, I don’t know how you stuck at it for so long, I couldn’t handle it either. We both had professional industrial careers, burned out in our 20s, worked at a school for a bit then burned out from that too. It feels like being chewed up and spat out by systems that don’t care about individuals. If the world wasn’t like that, I think I wouldn’t be like this.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 21:17
|
|
|
Anyone know of good potty training visual aids? Everything I've found glosses over the actual going part, which is coincidentally what my boy has been struggling with. He likes going through the motions, but will rarely actually relieve himself there, preferring to hold it until he can go in a pullup, or until he explodes. This has been going on for two years now and I don't know how to change his mind.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 01:34
|
|
|
bees x1000 posted:Anyone know of good potty training visual aids? Everything I've found glosses over the actual going part, which is coincidentally what my boy has been struggling with. He likes going through the motions, but will rarely actually relieve himself there, preferring to hold it until he can go in a pullup, or until he explodes. This has been going on for two years now and I don't know how to change his mind. I'm in a similar situation and if anything ever works for us I'll definitely let you know. I have no idea how to get my son to be willing to do it, he used to happily sit on the toilet but wouldn't go, like you said. Now-a-days he absolutely refuses to get on the toilet so a bit of a back step. It's something we are about to start working on in therapy, so we'll see.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 02:04
|
|
|
We’re the opposite situation. Our 4yo PDA kid does all the steps of potty time perfectly if you can get him to start the process, but refuses to go if you suggest it, won’t initiate on his own, and will instead just have an accident. So we’re back on pull-ups 100% of the time at least until his pre-school starts since for some reason he would let his class aid take him there last school year. At least sleep is also going terribly 
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 02:10
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure I have some degree of autism. I'm 39 now and all my life I've picked up hints that I put off a bit of a weird vibe. To the degree that I've had a girl ask me 'Are you autistic I work with autistic people'. It's also the only explanation I can come up with as to why I get passed over by girls I like for guys that are much less attractive, wealthy, etc. I must just communicate extra caution or extra work. After someone gets to know me I can often make friends for life as loyalty comes across clearly. I feel sometimes that a lot of people have this social stuff come easy. In the moment I feel normal, but I have been able to tell by the expression on people's faces that I'm coming across differently or am doing something weird. Sometimes I don't know what it is. Other times I get the impression that I'm being very charming but can't tell what I've done differently. Ideally I come across the way I intend all the time. It's the kind of thing most people won't talk to you about. It's rarely affected my profession, or ability to hold most conversations. It's just an impressions and mood thing. It might not help that I like to be fairly transparent and straight forward.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 20:06
|
|
|
Some of the things that made me realize I am somewhere on the spectrum were difficulty recognizing faces, to the point where I'm not sure I could give an accurate description of my wife's face if asked by like, a sketch artist. Also I lose track of actors in movies if they have an outfit change, especially if they change their hair. The biggest thing though was when I said "I copy people's emotions when they are talking to me" and I got looked at like I was crazy. Oops I guess people aren't doing that in every interaction? I also never notice when people take an interest in me, like ever, happened all through school and into adulthood. My wife has commented on it too, I'm completely oblivious. I also get exhausted from interacting with people too long, especially at events, it's miserable. I know it's caused issues in my professional life, like I've been passed up for promotions and stuff that I thought I had on lock because I'm just not good at fitting in with the bosses.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 21:41
|
|
|
Nolgthorn posted:. It's also the only explanation I can come up with as to why I get passed over by girls I like for guys that are much less attractive, wealthy, etc. I must just communicate extra caution or extra work. Be a bit careful thinking this way. People don't select partners in a logical way like that and going too far down that rabbithole ends in unfortunate places.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 21:59
|
|
|
HopperUK posted:Be a bit careful thinking this way. People don't select partners in a logical way like that and going too far down that rabbithole ends in unfortunate places. Always, I try to be cool with anything. The only reason I said that is there are cases where my interpretation must have been way off. Where I thought there was a connection of some minor way that was overridden. That of which I don't understand. There's something going on that I'm not in tune with, which makes me feel like I'm disabled.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 23:24
|
|
|
Nolgthorn posted:In the moment I feel normal, but I have been able to tell by the expression on people's faces that I'm coming across differently or am doing something weird. Sometimes I don't know what it is. Other times I get the impression that I'm being very charming but can't tell what I've done differently.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 23:25
|
|
|
Nolgthorn posted:It's also the only explanation I can come up with as to why I get passed over by girls I like for guys that are much less attractive, wealthy, etc. I must just communicate extra caution or extra work. Women have their own desires and goals, and are generally not weighing suitors against each other like they're choosing a PC or a new phone. It's almost never a logical decision in terms of looks and especially not money; it's usually down to who they vibe with. You can have all the bone structure and money in the world, but if it doesn't click, it's not happening. Let me put it this way - there are girls you like. Which implies there are girls you do not like, girls you wouldn't date. Would you consider yourself 'passing them over,' or would you think more that they were never an option in the first place? I don't want that to come across as harsh but there is something very freeing, psychologically speaking, about realising that it's ok for someone to just not be into you. It means you can move on to someone who is. What's more likely is that you're so hung up on impressing girls and acting like the kind of guy a girl would want to be with that you're not relaxing and being yourself. Or that you're going for the wrong kinds of girls where you need to put on an act and pretend to be someone else. You need to learn to be yourself, be confident about who you are and what you like. Then socialise based around those things. You're far more likely to find someone you vibe with doing that than chasing the wrong kinds of people. I mean look at it this way - what's the endgame there? Just keep pretending forever? Turn yourself into someone you're not? Nah. Be yourself.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2022 04:07
|
|
|
Nolgthorn posted:I'm 39 now and all my life I've picked up hints that I put off a bit of a weird vibe. To the degree that I've had a girl ask me 'Are you autistic I work with autistic people'. It's also the only explanation I can come up with as to why I get passed over by girls I like for guys that are much less attractive, wealthy, etc. I must just communicate extra caution or extra work. Yeah, as others have said, dating and attraction are anything but logical and I'm going to assume most of us here have been exposed in one way or another to people who felt that they could logic their way into a relationship (and I really regret being too polite to say "Well, originally I just generally wasn't looking for a relationship, but after you've demanded explanations for why I wasn't for an hour, I now hate you personally."), not to mention their terminal stages of MRAs and incels, which is why we're getting hung up on this part. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here that you just, well, didn't come across the way you intended. I will point out that it's more likely that you communicate something like a lack of interest, not extra caution or extra work. That seems to be the most common interpretation of autistic people's body language. Mine is usually read as me being uncomfortable or upset. There's an entire additional conversation going on in body language, and if you send out and receive different signals than most people, misunderstandings are bound to happen.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2022 05:45
|
|
|
Bobby Deluxe posted:What's more likely is that you're so hung up on impressing girls and acting like the kind of guy a girl would want to be with that you're not relaxing and being yourself. Or that you're going for the wrong kinds of girls where you need to put on an act and pretend to be someone else. You're right I'm not relaxed enough, some people just get along, I'll work on this. Thanks for the advice that might be the ticket. Cloacamazing! posted:I will point out that it's more likely that you communicate something like a lack of interest, not extra caution or extra work. That seems to be the most common interpretation of autistic people's body language. Mine is usually read as me being uncomfortable or upset. I've had someone tell me my face had no expression. I don't think that happens often but maybe when I drink. If I started focusing on it I'm sure that wouldn't help me very much, seems like the kind of thing that should be natural. It makes me wonder maybe I'm not really interested.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2022 08:15
|
|
|
"flat affect" in that way is quite common among individuals with autism
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2022 10:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 14:05 |
|
|
I have a friend who didn't manage a serious relationship until he was in his mid 40s. Sometimes you just don't gel with the right person until you find them and it's ok if that takes a while. Don't try to compare your life to the "normal" progression because everyone is different and it doesn't really matter. I think you'll know when you find the right person, I'm pretty bad socially but I knew when I had to make a move and it did work out in the end.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2022 10:28
|
|