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Yeah. Super rich people barely even use their passports because the screenings that TSA and their counterparts in other countries apply to private jet fliers are basically non-existent
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Aug 16, 2022 15:44
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mdemone posted:The easiest example here is Israel because they have outstanding SIGINT and would possibly find out if Trump passed info to the Saudis, either by direct or indirect means. Yeah, the Trump/Saudi relationship gives them a lot of incentive to be proactive. That said, I don't know much about the big split in Israeli government and how that translates to Trump friendliness.
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Aug 16, 2022 16:05
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Rand Paul has a stopped clock moment https://mobile.twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1558579480171614209 Now that Trump may have violated the Espionage Act, Rand "drone strike liquor store thieves" Paul suddenly remembered he wants small government
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Aug 16, 2022 16:09
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VitalSigns posted:Rand Paul has a stopped clock moment I am sure this is a legitimate turnaround on his previous belief that in no way is effected by the fascists him and his dad enabled.
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Aug 16, 2022 16:16
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Aug 16, 2022 16:22
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The espionage act clearly applies here and this is exactly the sort of incident it was intended to be used for. Anyway, this is just empty posturing as he’s well aware that there is no way in hell it (the laws coded into US regulations based on it) gets repealed in the next few years. Even if you were to repeal the main provisions they would be replaced with something equally damaging to Trump because he is so evidently in the wrong.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:00
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Murgos posted:The espionage act clearly applies here and this is exactly the sort of incident it was intended to be used for. I'm not sure you could get a co-sponsor at this moment. Just more chaff to distract the flak cannons.
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Aug 16, 2022 18:16
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Mooseontheloose posted:I am sure this is a legitimate turnaround on his previous belief that in no way is effected by the fascists him and his dad enabled. The part he is talking about was a seperate bill that attached itself to the espionage act. And then was repealed.
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Aug 16, 2022 19:17
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mdemone posted:The easiest example here is Israel because they have outstanding SIGINT and would possibly find out if Trump passed info to the Saudis, either by direct or indirect means. The only real conjecture you need to make, as far as I know, is that there's some sort of reciprocal programme. And since the alternative is that the NSA is providing this all to GCHQ out of the presumed goodness of its institutional heart and lol to that.
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Aug 16, 2022 19:34
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Repealing the act now wouldn't make Trump's conduct retroactively legal then anyway. Not unless it was repealed retroactively. Which would mean exonerating assange, manning, winner, etc.
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Aug 16, 2022 20:28
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Hypothetically, at this point in the investigation, if Donald Trump announces publicly that he remains president and that Biden is a usurper with no legal authority... How would such statements play in court, and would such statements put him at greater legal risk?
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Aug 16, 2022 21:03
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Uglycat posted:Hypothetically, at this point in the investigation, if Donald Trump announces publicly that he remains president and that Biden is a usurper with no legal authority... I would assume that this would be part of some kind of profound stupidity/insanity defense. I don't think it would work. You would basically be admitting guilt while hoping to get off light.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:07
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Uglycat posted:Hypothetically, at this point in the investigation, if Donald Trump announces publicly that he remains president and that Biden is a usurper with no legal authority... Depends on what he's in court for, what he's being charged with, and so on.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:12
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Uglycat posted:Hypothetically, at this point in the investigation, if Donald Trump announces publicly that he remains president and that Biden is a usurper with no legal authority... If they do that, that means they don’t care how it plays out in court. That’s the attempting to start a violent revolution option.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:19
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Mental defect defense isn't what you guys saw on TV. It don't work like that.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:36
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Uglycat posted:Hypothetically, at this point in the investigation, if Donald Trump announces publicly that he remains president and that Biden is a usurper with no legal authority... You're throwing a lot of wild "if" statements at the wall and forgetting a lot of the context up to this point. Trump knows he's not the president, the inauguration happened and Biden was sworn in. His argument is that the election was stolen from him through fraud. He believes the presidency belongs to him, not that he's the current president. And while trump lives in some fantasy land of his own imagination, the court system is far more based in evidence and legal theory. Trump was already laughed out of court on fraud claims 60+ times, by judges he appointed. There's no magic button that lets judges declare whatever they feel like.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:46
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Judge Schnoopy posted:You're throwing a lot of wild "if" statements at the wall and forgetting a lot of the context up to this point. I'm not asking how the courts would handle a legal argument that he remains president; I'm asking what prosecutors might do with an active campaign outside of court where he openly claims to still be president, coupled with a social media campaign designed to reinforce and exploit the belief among the qanon-j6-chud-maga camp that donny is still commander in chief. Y'know, the extra-legal campaign of stochastic terrorism. If he pursues that course (and everything indicates it, and the passport discrepancy confirms) - it's to be treason, yeah? Whereas if he backs off and pleads the 5th from here, it's 'just' espionage. Promoting the myth that he retains the power of the office - could be an 'overt act' at this point. Uglycat fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 21:56
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Uglycat posted:I'm not asking how the courts would handle a legal argument that he remains president; Nothing? Unless he's inciting violence, just being a crackpot is not illegal.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:57
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Deteriorata posted:Nothing? Unless he's inciting violence, just being a crackpot is not illegal. Eh, there’s armed people assaulting FBI offices. At some point it crosses over from crackpot to sedition.
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Aug 16, 2022 22:05
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Murgos posted:Eh, there’s armed people assaulting FBI offices. Yeah, but unless you have proof that Trump is telling them to do it, there's nothing to prosecute (at least with regards to Trump). Obviously, whoever actually is organizing and inciting them is liable.
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Aug 16, 2022 22:07
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Judge Schnoopy posted:You're throwing a lot of wild "if" statements at the wall and forgetting a lot of the context up to this point. Ah I see you have not yet been introduced to our Uglycat.
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Aug 16, 2022 22:10
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VitalSigns posted:Rand Paul has a stopped clock moment Lol the Supreme Court are going to do it aren’t they?
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Aug 16, 2022 22:23
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Uglycat posted:Y'know, the extra-legal campaign of stochastic terrorism. If he pursues that course (and everything indicates it, and the passport discrepancy confirms) - it's to be treason, yeah? Whereas if he backs off and pleads the 5th from here, it's 'just' espionage. No. As we've discussed with you before, the Constitutional definition of "treason" has purposely been drawn to be unreasonably tight and restrictive, and courts have consistently followed the clearly expressed will of the writers by interpreting the Treason Clause extremely strictly. If you're asking if something could be treason, the answer is almost definitely no. When it comes to treason, there is no "could", there is no "maybe", there is no "well if you look at it this way". It was deliberately designed to make it as difficult as possible to stretch or expand it, which is most of the reason it was written into the Constitution to begin with. I know you desperately want to see Trump convicted of treason and executed, but give up on that dream.
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Aug 16, 2022 22:23
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Main Paineframe posted:No. As we've discussed with you before, the Constitutional definition of "treason" has purposely been drawn to be unreasonably tight and restrictive, and courts have consistently followed the clearly expressed will of the writers by interpreting the Treason Clause extremely strictly. At best, we'll have to settle for heart disease in a federal prison someplace. Even that may be too optimistic, but I still have hope!
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Aug 16, 2022 22:32
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Bear in mind that Teump is such a privileged Narcissus that even the most mildest of inconvenience is a personal afront to him. Even if Trump went to the cushiest, white collar prison, it would be the equivalent of a dangerous, run down state prison to him.
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Aug 16, 2022 22:50
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mdemone posted:Ah I see you have not yet been introduced to our Uglycat. It’s an action he could take if one thinks he is a foreign intelligence asset of a state we are at “economic war” with.
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Aug 16, 2022 23:08
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Murgos posted:Eh, there’s armed people assaulting FBI offices. At some point it crosses over from crackpot to sedition. Not to mention Trump’s “Nice country you have here Merrick, would be a real shame if something happend to it.” https://twitter.com/RobertMaguire_/status/1558631176184778752 Sadly no consequences.
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Aug 16, 2022 23:19
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That article Rand Paul tweeted sure is somethingJacob G. Hornberger posted:
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Aug 16, 2022 23:56
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Lol, loving Rand Paul. 1. Wilson didn't enact conscription because people refused to volunteer; he did so because he wanted to avoid what had happened to the British Pals and, in an earlier war, the horde of volunteers north and south during the civil war. In both instances, uncontrolled local enlistment led to all the young men from localities ending up in the same regiments, and thus after a particularly nasty battle (say, Passchendaele or Antietam, respectively) entire towns would find themselves having lost a generation of their youth. Conscription allowed for federal control over recruiting, which avoided this problem and streamlined the entire process (at least in principle). 2. If reincarnated today, the White Rose would stand against everything the GOP champions, and Paul would be among the loudest voices calling for them to be labelled domestic terrorists.
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Aug 17, 2022 00:03
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VitalSigns posted:Rand Paul has a stopped clock moment James Garfield posted:That article Rand Paul tweeted sure is something What's even stupider is that he's not even talking about the original 1917 Espionage Act. He's referring to the Sedition Act of 1918, which was an amendment to the Espionage Act. It was a serious curtailment of the 1st amendment in order to arrest those who dissented against our involvement in WWI. It was also repealed in 1920. So Rand Paul is railing against the law being used against Trump because, over 100 years ago, it had a bullshit amendment tacked on to it for two years.
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Aug 17, 2022 00:05
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Uglycat posted:I'm not asking how the courts would handle a legal argument that he remains president; The actual answer to this is that if he keeps this up after he's been charged with something he could face additional charges of obstruction of justice and / or contempt of court depending on who he pissed off more, the prosecutor or the judge, and whether or not the prosecutor or judge wanted to bother.
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Aug 17, 2022 00:06
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:The actual answer to this is that if he keeps this up after he's been charged with something he could face additional charges of obstruction of justice and / or contempt of court depending on who he pissed off more, the prosecutor or the judge, and whether or not the prosecutor or judge wanted to bother. Well, that and at sentencing they would weight higher due to his exacerbating the situation.
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Aug 17, 2022 00:58
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Murgos posted:The espionage act clearly applies here and this is exactly the sort of incident it was intended to be used for. No, wrong, because it has nothing to do with Hunter Biden's laptop and Hillary's emails. I believe you'll find when the law starts sniffing around and hits on a Republlcan, it's all a Soros Deep State conspiracy and the laws are wrong.
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Aug 17, 2022 01:47
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Liz Cheney lost her primary. Have any people looked into how that might affect the hearings and ongoing investigations?
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Aug 17, 2022 03:16
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It won’t affect anything until January when she leaves Congress.
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Aug 17, 2022 03:18
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It's been obvious she was going to lose for months. They've already made and executed whatever plans they had for that.
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Aug 17, 2022 03:22
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Eric Cantonese posted:Liz Cheney lost her primary. Have any people looked into how that might affect the hearings and ongoing investigations? Bird in a Blender posted:It won’t affect anything until January when she leaves Congress. The Democrats are losing control of the House in November anyway, so the committee already has a rapidly approaching sell-by date to get literally anything of value done and it's 12PM Eastern Time on January 3rd, 2023.
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Aug 17, 2022 03:23
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Cheney losing her primary changes the framing of her position on the committee from lone republican speaks out to possibly save the nation/party from trump to lame duck disgraced rhino spilling sour grapes about how she couldn't stop the Trump train. As a spokesperson for the investigation she just isn't going to be as effective as she was before because ultimately the moderates will always bend to those with power and now her power has an expiration date.
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Aug 17, 2022 03:35
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E. Revenant posted:Cheney losing her primary changes the framing of her position on the committee from lone republican speaks out to possibly save the nation/party from trump to lame duck disgraced rhino spilling sour grapes about how she couldn't stop the Trump train. As a spokesperson for the investigation she just isn't going to be as effective as she was before because ultimately the moderates will always bend to those with power and now her power has an expiration date. Uh, this is a rather dismal view that is going to be massively over-shadowed by anything revealed, just like every other hearing from this committee.
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Aug 17, 2022 03:46
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nine-gear crow posted:The Democrats are losing control of the House in November anyway, so the committee already has a rapidly approaching sell-by date to get literally anything of value done and it's 12PM Eastern Time on January 3rd, 2023. That's by design, so that when absolutely no one faces any consequences other than being sent to prison to network with other white supremacists for a year or two (and this only for foot soldiers) they can blame the voters for not voting blue hard enough
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Aug 17, 2022 03:48
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