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I thought 1/2" gap all around the front panel is supposed to be enough space to avoid starving the case of air?
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Aug 17, 2022 01:11
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Kibner posted:I thought 1/2" gap all around the front panel is supposed to be enough space to avoid starving the case of air? ALL around, maybe, though that would still be far from optimal and I wouldn't want to put high performance components like a 3090 and a 5950X in a case like that. I looked up the titan computers workstations and the ventilation only appears to be on one side of the computer, and it stops two thirds of the way up the case. It's a hotbox. They allow you to configure the computer to come with an Enthoo Pro for just $45 more, so whoever configured that system is a moron. Though I have to wonder why the OP would buy such a poorly configured system. This seems like a self-own to me. edit: Okay, I thought he bought the system second-hand but I guess he's helping someone fix it up. sorry Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 01:50
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I think the 1/2" thing is specifically the gap between the fan and any obstruction for the fan to have free flow dynamics. Even a partially obstructing surface like mesh or filter needs to be offset by that much. With a full obstruction like a solid front panel you need that 1/2" plus sufficient gap around the sides to more than equal the surface area of the fans. Which in the case of 2 120mm fans is 22.3 sq in, meaning that a 1/2" gap would need to be at least ~45" worth of the perimeter of your front panel -- this is possible but kinda difficult if you don't have like a free-floating panel on standoff posts, or a huge full atx case. And that's just 2 120s. Cases with solid front panels really need to rely on exhaust fans and negative / balanced pressure. IMO they're not universally terrible, I think the GN crusade for mesh is a little over the top, but it's real dumb to have a solid front and then put front intakes as the main airflow. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Though I have to wonder why the OP would buy such a poorly configured system. This seems like a self-own to me. I don't think I've ever seen a redeyes post that wasn't about something not working for him, seems to be a pattern. But at least in this case it sounds like someone else bought the thing.
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Aug 17, 2022 03:01
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Here.. I make videos sometimes when im really mad. The 120mm fans have gaps around them for 140s, meaning they draw air from inside the case and the front panel... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BARK5jHasMU
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Aug 17, 2022 03:12
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redeyes posted:Here.. I make videos sometimes when im really mad. God drat, the balls of the builder to put that hsf on a 5950X.
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Aug 17, 2022 04:33
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Rexxed posted:God drat, the balls of the builder to put that hsf on a 5950X. It's the only loving option on the build page!
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Aug 17, 2022 16:22
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redeyes posted:Here.. I make videos sometimes when im really mad. Tweet this at GamerNexus, they’d “love” this. It sounds worse than the worst gaming prebuilt they’ve reviewed…
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Aug 17, 2022 16:26
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Rexxed posted:God drat, the balls of the builder to put that hsf on a 5950X. what's wrong with putting that on a 5950X, for the record? Overkill?
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Aug 17, 2022 16:35
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:what's wrong with putting that on a 5950X, for the record? Overkill? It cannot dissipate enough heat to let the chip actually reach its potential clocks. If you were to want to use it, you would need to run the fan at %100 all the time and it would still not be able to cool the CPU properly below its throttle point.
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Aug 17, 2022 16:42
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okay, thanks. I stuck one of those on a 5600X and it doesn't seem to be throttling, at least.
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Aug 17, 2022 16:44
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:okay, thanks. I stuck one of those on a 5600X and it doesn't seem to be throttling, at least. well yeah 6 cores vs 16.. haha
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Aug 17, 2022 16:51
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that'll do it
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Aug 17, 2022 16:53
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Looks like a Noctua NH-U12S? That's perfectly fine for a 5950X
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Aug 17, 2022 16:55
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quote:I don't think I've ever seen a redeyes post that wasn't about something not working for him, seems to be a pattern. According to the owner of this machine (which isn't me) he was not given the option to pick a different case, he said there were 2 Lian Li options. Just scanning through their build page, I didn't even notice another cpu cooler other than stock or the 120mm Noctua, which IS a okay cooler but not for this situation. I know you are all focused on the poo poo cooling but the PSU is a real dangerous generic POS. It is the reason it is on my workbench since it shuts off with any load.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:00
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FuturePastNow posted:Looks like a Noctua NH-U12S? That's perfectly fine for a 5950X So for $4000+ dollars thats perfectly fine? Have at it bro, Im not going to argue.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:00
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redeyes posted:So for $4000+ dollars thats perfectly fine? Have at it bro, Im not going to argue. Why did you spend $4000 for a PC with a 5950X? Like the overall PC is obviously not worth a fraction of that, the case is lovely and the build quality doesn't look great and no, for that money you should expect more. It's obviously choked for air. But the CPU cooler is perfectly fine for that CPU, if you don't gently caress up the rest of the build. FuturePastNow fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 17:04
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A noctua U12 can adequately cool a 5950X, enough to keep it from throttling, unless the inside of the case is an oven or the fan curve is set low such that the fan doesn't ramp to 100%. It's not ideal, it won't get max clocks or low noise. But GN was able to cool a 220W heat load at 60 over ambient. (Putting it in a $4000 build is terrible, but that's pre-builts for you.) Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:okay, thanks. I stuck one of those on a 5600X and it doesn't seem to be throttling, at least. They are very good heatsinks, for mid-range medium-power CPUs like a 5600 or 5800X3d. It wouldn't throttle on a 5600X unless it was installed badly. But there's a world of difference between a 5600X that is unlikely to push more than 100W even with PBO OC, a 5950X that can do 140W stock, or a 12700K that can hit 200W.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:04
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FuturePastNow posted:Why did you spend $4000 for a PC with a 5950X? I agree and I still ordered the top of the line Noctua w/ 2x 140mm. For $100, I can be assured it will have no issues and the owner has money to spend obviously. Parts to fix this build: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088T3VMKK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00COIZTZM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00L7UZMAK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JMEMAE8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Aug 17, 2022 17:16
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I don't understand why the niche of "absolutely poo poo prebuilts" continues to exist, I'm sure that Dell / HP / Lenovo are fully capable of putting an RTX 3090 and 5950X into a box for $4,000, and doing a much better job if it than this.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:19
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I'm not sure Dell would do a better job than this but they would auto-subscribe you to their warranty at least
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Aug 17, 2022 17:21
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Twerk from Home posted:I don't understand why the niche of "absolutely poo poo prebuilts" continues to exist, I'm sure that Dell / HP / Lenovo are fully capable of putting an RTX 3090 and 5950X into a box for $4,000, and doing a much better job if it than this. I feel like I have the wrong side-hustle. That's like, what, a minimum $1k profit for maybe a couple hours of work?
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Aug 17, 2022 17:34
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redeyes posted:https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00COIZTZM/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 lmao 1300W PSU? This guy planning to get a 2nd 3090? Twerk from Home posted:I don't understand why the niche of "absolutely poo poo prebuilts" continues to exist, It's a business with high overhead and support costs. The people you are selling to are in the band-gap where they don't have the skill or time to DIY, but are doing enthusiast or professional grade stuff with a PC that's way more demanding than the average person. So your margin has to cover not just components and assembly but also service, and your service cost is way higher per-unit than Dell. So you either stay super boutique with sky-high prices, or compete against Alienware and save money where you can. Compare someone like Puget Systems who are reputable and not filling boxes with poo poo-tier components, and look at their prices. A 5950X / 128GB / 3090 from them is over $6k. Twerk from Home posted:I'm sure that Dell / HP / Lenovo are fully capable of putting an RTX 3090 and 5950X into a box for $4,000, and doing a much better job if it than this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY1dlVPzUVo
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Aug 17, 2022 17:35
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even though i'm sure the last few years have been overall kind to the industry, the pricing and availability shocks have also been atrocious for smaller builders. can't sell poo poo if you can't get GPUs. that was one of the cited factors in the demise of artisan, just a loving ton of expense in inventory sitting around waiting to be functional.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:39
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Twerk from Home posted:I don't understand why the niche of "absolutely poo poo prebuilts" continues to exist, I'm sure that Dell / HP / Lenovo are fully capable of putting an RTX 3090 and 5950X into a box for $4,000, and doing a much better job if it than this. Because 99% of customers are too ignorant to care, and 99% of the people who know enough aren't ever going to buy a prebuilt. The extra premium it would cost to cover proper assembly and testing by someone with enough knowledge and skill is something only a very small number of people are willing to pay.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:42
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Klyith posted:lmao 1300W PSU? This guy planning to get a 2nd 3090? Actually he said he wants another either 3080 or 3090. He does rendering and whatnot, so I just over did the PSU somewhat.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:54
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:okay, thanks. I stuck one of those on a 5600X and it doesn't seem to be throttling, at least. I think a 5950x can draw over twice the power of a 5600x stock?
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Aug 17, 2022 17:55
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hobbesmaster posted:I think a 5950x can draw over twice the power of a 5600x stock? There are different numbers floating around in different benchmarks. It depends on bios settings, firmware revisions, and the type of test. You can get a stock 5950x to draw 140w with certain torture tests. It's generally not worth it to OC or throw additional voltage at zen2/zen3 cpus. Especially the higher core count CPUs. Playing with memory timings is worth it, trying to undervolt a bit is worth it, but making them consume more power is a waste of time and resources because they're already pretty far out on the power:performance curve. Khorne fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 18:36
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I haven't had a prebuilt since I was a kid, and about 10 years before this year I was buying laptops. I had no idea the prebuilt industry was still bad. I assumed they buy parts like anyone else and assemble them. That computer is almost entirely proprietary what the heck.
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Aug 17, 2022 18:38
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Nolgthorn posted:I haven't had a prebuilt since I was a kid, and about 10 years before this year I was buying laptops. I had no idea the prebuilt industry was still bad. I assumed they buy parts like anyone else and assemble them. That computer is almost entirely proprietary what the heck. A lot of them are built from off the shelf parts, but Dells and HPs are fully custom, and you might think that if you're spending the engineering money to custom design a non-standard PC you could make something better, but instead they're designed to maximize profit and that means they are poo poo
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Aug 17, 2022 18:55
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Yeah that one is designed to be as useless as possible so that later you have to buy a new computer. I shouldn't be surprised they would try that I'm just surprised the business model works.
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Aug 17, 2022 19:02
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Nolgthorn posted:I haven't had a prebuilt since I was a kid, and about 10 years before this year I was buying laptops. I had no idea the prebuilt industry was still bad. I assumed they buy parts like anyone else and assemble them. That computer is almost entirely proprietary what the heck. The ones that use off-the-shelf parts and are quality and have good service are relatively few and far between. MainGear seems to be the only one that consistently gets good reviews and isn't quite super boutique expensive for the mainstream systems (but still considerably more expensive than other pre-builts).
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Aug 17, 2022 20:44
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Turns out I misunderstood the price.. which was 6700 dollars. OUCH
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Aug 17, 2022 21:51
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Klyith posted:With a full obstruction like a solid front panel you need that 1/2" plus sufficient gap around the sides to more than equal the surface area of the fans. Which in the case of 2 120mm fans is 22.3 sq in, meaning that a 1/2" gap would need to be at least ~45" worth of the perimeter of your front panel -- this is possible but kinda difficult if you don't have like a free-floating panel on standoff posts, or a huge full atx case. And that's just 2 120s. There are a lot of caveats on this, and the type of fan is going to matter more than the size in particular. Where there may be additional resistance/obstruction, it's imposing a pressure drop for the fans relative to if said obstructions did not exist, and so while standard low static pressure fans (i.e. "case fans") would not be ideal, fans with high static pressure capability would be perfectly suited for this type of application. I probably wouldn't want to then put a radiator on that front installation, or this may be a situation where push/pull would be ideal, but there are plenty of cases far worse than the one redeyes showed. This isn't a defense of it though. Also, I'm not sure if you were excluding blades and/or the motor housing cover, but the combined surface area for two 120 mm fans would be 35.1 sq. in. on average, not excluding the motor housing. The blades would be included in the available surface area.
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Aug 17, 2022 22:05
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quote:there are plenty of cases far worse than the one redeyes showed. Maybe there are but can you give me an example because far as I can tell, this case is worthless for any kind of high performance PC.
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Aug 17, 2022 22:15
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redeyes posted:Maybe there are but can you give me an example because far as I can tell, this case is worthless for any kind of high performance PC. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811445010?Item=N82E16811445010 (you would think those front gaps could be for air flow too, but... nope) https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811356009?Item=N82E16811356009 (about the same poo poo as what you showed, but with some fans going to the lower chamber. I guess the USB ports are at least colored?) https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811295005?Item=N82E16811295005 (speaks for itself) https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811353184?Item=N82E16811353184 (the single fan blows 1/2 or more into the bottom compartment) https://www.newegg.com/p/2AM-0030-000B7?Item=9SIAZF8HTK6016 (I love that the middle fan is effectively completely choked and will impact the other two) https://www.newegg.com/black-raidmax-x6-atx-micro-atx-mid-tower/p/2AM-001S-00078?Item=9SIAJ7WHCB6964 (I guess the middle fan for this one makes off the best; granted this case probably still has much better airflow than the one you showed) https://www.newegg.com/black-coolmoon-xuanying-micro-atx-mini-itx/p/1W8-01UW-00001?Item=9SIB1CZFF85185. (Everyone here complaining about 1/2; how about 1/2 mm in gap...) https://www.newegg.com/p/1VK-0009-00619?Description=%22mac%20pro%22&cm_re=%22mac_pro%22-_-9SIA9UWFAH3212-_-Product&quicklink=true. (i had to...) Anyway, yeah, the case you linked sucks. It's not the only one, there are worse, but I understand hyperbole.
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Aug 17, 2022 22:59
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FuturePastNow posted:A lot of them are built from off the shelf parts, but Dells and HPs are fully custom, and you might think that if you're spending the engineering money to custom design a non-standard PC you could make something better, but instead they're designed to maximize profit and that means they are poo poo They're also the way they are because that custom engineering is shared with other PCs in the line-up which are decidedly not gaming / enthusiast PCs. Like, the Alienware Dell is an interesting case -- all that custom poo poo is because it's the same PC as a Dell Workstation, but then stuck inside a giant stupid plastic shell that kills airflow. The PSU is actually very good because Dell spent a lot of money making a PSU that's efficient & reliable, and the fact that it's a proprietary spin on 12VO is just a side-effect. Basically my feeling is that everything that's bad about them is stuff that the customer wants (fancy weird plastic shells, rgb) because the customer is stupid, and everything that's non-standard is non-standard for the reason that it's been engineered for a hair-fine balance of cost and reliability. SourKraut posted:There are a lot of caveats on this Super yes, was just spitballing a general premise. For a generic fan to work as well behind a panel as it does in free-flow, it needs both lack of immediate obstruction and lack of restrictions in the complete path for air. A high static pressure fan also loses airflow when dealing with restrictions (like a rad), it just loses less. SourKraut posted:Also, I'm not sure if you were excluding blades and/or the motor housing cover, but the combined surface area for two 120 mm fans would be 35.1 sq. in. on average, not excluding the motor housing. The blades would be included in the available surface area. Uh, I just did "144 sq cm in sq in" in google to get 22.3, which now that I think about it is just 1 120mm fan. I wasn't really thinking too hard about it, ignored the circle area completely. Just trying to demonstrate that a couple fans is a lot when you make it a 1/2" strip. SourKraut posted:It's not the only one, there are worse Just need to point to the GN worst case of the year playlist!
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Aug 17, 2022 23:59
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From the Youtube comments: quote:So I was somewhat involved in developing this system (can’t say specifically for reasons) and want to clear something up. Everyone, and I mean everyone designing the r13 wanted a new chassis. It was a constant point of contention among the engineers and designers, led to a small loss of staff and proved to be a major hurdle.
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Aug 18, 2022 00:50
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Klyith posted:They're also the way they are because that custom engineering is shared with other PCs in the line-up which are decidedly not gaming / enthusiast PCs. That's why I'm so surprised Dell and the other big guys don't have a sane option. They make big workstations, I've worked at places that had a bunch of the big Dells around, some even dual-socket. Those are plenty hot and are a fine design, but I guess to make something "gamer" you have to poo poo it up.
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Aug 18, 2022 00:58
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Business customers are far more likely to care about metrics than consumers. Especially the kind of person who is going to buy a Dell prebuilt.
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Aug 18, 2022 01:37
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Twerk from Home posted:That's why I'm so surprised Dell and the other big guys don't have a sane option. They make big workstations, I've worked at places that had a bunch of the big Dells around, some even dual-socket. Those are plenty hot and are a fine design, but I guess to make something "gamer" you have to poo poo it up. I suspect that gamers are much more price sensitive.
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Aug 18, 2022 02:12
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