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A couple of questions about the Death/Dream relationship I've been wondering since I finished the season last night. Maybe some goon has some insight. Why didn't Death tell Dream about the Corinthian or at least where he is during the bring your brother to work episode? Doesn't she end up shuffling all Rinth's victims off their mortal coil when he's done with them? When Dream laments about his kingdom falling apart when he was gone, Death even asks Dream if it ever occurred that she'd be worried about him and tells him he could have called her while he was trapped. Why didn't Death do something about Dream being a prisoner when she came to pick up Roderick Burgess after his son slammed his head against the glass bubble? Anyway, show was dope. I really hope they keep making it. AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 20:58
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AndyElusive posted:
Also because Death wasn't really fleshed out as much when the Burgess stuff was written.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:09
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Still, Death could have stopped by the Dreaming , fed the fish, let Lucienne know Dream was alive, etc. I think. Pretty sure they can come through when holding the sigil, and permission is solely about politeness, and that closing the domain completely requires an overt act, not just absence.
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Aug 16, 2022 21:13
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AndyElusive posted:A couple of questions about the Death/Dream relationship I've been wondering since I finished the season last night. Maybe some goon has some insight. The Corinthian killing people isn't really her business/it's beneath her concern, she might personally disapprove of his actions (and that's a load-bearing might) but his bodycount is what, low 3 figures at the absolute most? From her perspective he may as well be a human serial killer. The Corinthian is no threat at all to a fully powered-up Dream, so by the time she's in a position to tell him he's more than capable of handling it at his discretion. Re: the second question, Death was worried, but the situation wasn't "life threatening," so respecting Morpheus' privacy was still a more pressing concern. The Endless mostly try to keep out of each others' business (at least, they're supposed to. Desire/Despair's games are held in contempt by Destiny/Death/Dream). My personal theory is that if Dream's imprisonment had started to have escalating effects on reality (more than just a few million people debilitated by a mysterious disease) she (or other powers) would have intervened, but it just wasn't serious enough to butt into Dream's personal affairs. Dream's whole arc is opening himself up to change/not being so stuck-up, so it's important he's introduced as someone who would pridefully refuse to ask for help. DJ_Mindboggler fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Aug 16, 2022 |
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Aug 16, 2022 21:15
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AndyElusive posted:A couple of questions about the Death/Dream relationship I've been wondering since I finished the season last night. Maybe some goon has some insight. She does say she doesn't visit everyone. And she is to carry them over only, she doesn't really matter about the method it was done. She never seems to watch them dying or being killed.
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Aug 16, 2022 22:11
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Bussamove posted:Just had a conversation with a friend who complained Sturridge played Dream “too emo-goth” and I had to ask if he had ever actually seen basically any panel of the comic. Well? Had they?
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Aug 17, 2022 08:30
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happyhippy posted:She does say she doesn't visit everyone. I don't remember this line but if she says that in the show it's directly conflicting the comic (or generally what I thought Death was about). It's kind of a thing that Death says everyone meets her twice in their life. Comic reference from #20 (Facade)  As to why she didn't help Dream, well, I'm guessing he isn't kinda big on admitting defeat or asking for help. If she did interfere without asking then he'd taken it even more badly. e: A sidenote about issue #20: It has one of the funniest Death lines in the series, where she tells Rainie that Ra keeps making Metamorphae to fight the never-ending battle against Apep, The Serpent that Never Dies. "Dumb. I told him: 'The serpent that never dies is _dead_. I took her three thousand years ago! The never-ending battle ended...'" It's yet another reminder in Sandman that gods are some of the dumbest beings around. TeaJay fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 09:15
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I keep messing up aspects of Gaiman's Death and Pratchett's DEATH, so that had me confused as well. I think the Discworld's Death doesn't have to be present at every occasion, he just needs to visit a few key events each day to keep the momentum going.
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Aug 17, 2022 09:23
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Dave Syndrome posted:I keep messing up aspects of Gaiman's Death and Pratchett's DEATH, so that had me confused as well. I think the Discworld's Death doesn't have to be present at every occasion, he just needs to visit a few key events each day to keep the momentum going. Correct. Discworld Death always comes in person for monarchs, witches and wizards. Other than that, he only makes about three or four direct collections a day and works out who he needs to collect using what is basically a big magical spreadsheet called the Nodes. Nobody knows exactly how his personal visits are selected, but it appears to work on the basis of narrative causality.
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Aug 17, 2022 09:34
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I did think "that sounds more like Pratchett's Death" when that line was on the show.
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Aug 17, 2022 09:44
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Snooze Cruise posted:
Should have been Keanu
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Aug 17, 2022 10:06
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This show was real good imo. I only really have a few complaints, and they're basically casting related. Firstly, Matthew was the wrong kind of cartoonish (as a counterexample of the right kind of cartoonish, look at Mark Hamill as Merv) and also his pep talk in the hell episode almost ruined a great scene. Secondly Rose's actress just... didn't click with me at all. None of her performances felt convincing to me, especially when placed alongside more compelling actors. The last arc was also not as interesting in general, because the most interesting characters got less focus and Rose was the centre for a lot of it. We still got some great stuff though, like Lucienne's whole deal and Fiddler's Green and Gault are all great.
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Aug 17, 2022 10:53
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I think Tom Sturridge is great in the role.
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Aug 17, 2022 11:04
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Tom Sturridge has got the look pretty dang well but becomes perfect the moment he opens his mouth. His voice sounds like he's talking in black speech bubbles.
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Aug 17, 2022 11:22
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TeaJay posted:I don't remember this line but if she says that in the show it's directly conflicting the comic (or generally what I thought Death was about). It's kind of a thing that Death says everyone meets her twice in their life. After she mentions she doesn't show up for everyone, she immediately mentions Mad Hettie and Hob, who are both essentially immortal, so I think that's what she's referring to that there are people she wont' collect, be it by choice (like Hob) or other circumstances (like Hettie) rather than her stating she doesn't show up for everyone.
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Aug 17, 2022 11:22
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Sturridge's voice initially struck me as a bit "Christian Bale Batman" but it's grown on me and I've started to hear it in my head reading the comics. Slightly unfortunately, the effect extends to Matthew, whose comics dialogue is a lot more contemplative. He still looks like Bernard Black though. Last episode I couldn't keep a straight face.
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Aug 17, 2022 11:48
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I wrote an article and interviewed Dave Syndrome about his rad as gently caress Sandman game: https://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/inside-the-secret-the-sandman-video-game-nobody-has-ever-heard-of/
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Aug 17, 2022 12:01
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Oh dang, Wadjet Eye were on that too? That's a shame that that never happened.
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Aug 17, 2022 12:13
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Samovar posted:Well? Had they? He claims to have read the entire thing, his takes on media are sometimes just… unique and precious.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:25
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Episode 8 now, didn't like it. Everything's becoming too compressed and reduced again, and additionally the way they set up this plot feels like they really did turn Sandman into a police procedural. Lyta's had it the worst I think, her role in the story is just whatever's needed at the moment without any particular coherence. And there is entirely too little Gilbert. e: ooh, but for what it was, Dream was pretty good in this one and went beyond "calmly brooding", as he should every so often. And Hal is pretty great too. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 19:34
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My Lovely Horse posted:Sturridge's voice initially struck me as a bit "Christian Bale Batman" Yes me too exactly this.
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Aug 17, 2022 19:41
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https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/1559905770266845188?t=fNw1tX0jqNYRxfmLGsP5FQ&s=19
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Aug 17, 2022 19:58
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/1559905770266845188?t=fNw1tX0jqNYRxfmLGsP5FQ&s=19 lol, burned!!
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Aug 17, 2022 21:04
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Necrothatcher posted:I wrote an article and interviewed Dave Syndrome about his rad as gently caress Sandman game: https://wegotthiscovered.com/gaming/inside-the-secret-the-sandman-video-game-nobody-has-ever-heard-of/ You should definitely tweet this on out to Neil he'd probably love it.
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Aug 17, 2022 21:46
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/1559905770266845188?t=fNw1tX0jqNYRxfmLGsP5FQ&s=19 That one is kind of on the show, I don't think they really made clear why Dream needs the mask. Actually, I can't remember any time in the comics where he used the mask for anything besides a symbol of office. Like, I get that it's made of the same primordial gods whose remains were formed into the gates of Horn & Ivory, and is thus magical in some manner. But there's never a "Oh no, if only I had my mask this obstacle could be overcome!" moment that I'm aware of.
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Aug 17, 2022 22:56
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Having not read the comic I thought that this show was pretty interesting. It’s idiosyncratic to say the least, and that’s probably good enough. The CGI was real bad though. I kinda understand. They’re making an insanely VFX-heavy show on what looks like a relatively small budget. They jump through an endless number of locations and characters and props. They filmed all this during COVID. I assume this show is literally 90% CGI with a smidgen of practical effects. By contrast I thought American Gods was gorgeous.
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Aug 17, 2022 23:02
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:Actually, I can't remember any time in the comics where he used the mask for anything besides a symbol of office. He wears it when he goes back to Hell in Season of Mists. They even make a point where Lucifer says "Take off that stupid helm and we'll talk" and Dream only does so after Lucifer promises he won't harm him in any way. And even then he's sweating like crazy after taking the helm off. So it's pretty much what he counted on would protect him from Lucifer, and it must have some serious power. TeaJay fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 23:04
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At some point it is mentioned that the helm was crafted from spine of a dead god.
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Aug 17, 2022 23:26
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In fairness it looks a hell of a lot like a spine in the show. I like it.
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Aug 17, 2022 23:34
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:That one is kind of on the show, I don't think they really made clear why Dream needs the mask. Actually, I can't remember any time in the comics where he used the mask for anything besides a symbol of office. Like, I get that it's made of the same primordial gods whose remains were formed into the gates of Horn & Ivory, and is thus magical in some manner. But there's never a "Oh no, if only I had my mask this obstacle could be overcome!" moment that I'm aware of. Yeah but being a symbol of his office is inherently powerful, at least in the logic of dreams. It makes him more...Dream. Like the metaphysical difference between meeting the pope dressed like a guy and the pope dressed in all the regalia. If he talks about something religious dressed as a guy, it's just...a guy giving his opinion, vs the Pope speaking with all the weight of his office. When your purview is dreams and the alteration of reality, that makes a difference.
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Aug 17, 2022 23:59
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My Lovely Horse posted:Sturridge's voice initially struck me as a bit "Christian Bale Batman" but it's grown on me and I've started to hear it in my head reading the comics. Slightly unfortunately, the effect extends to Matthew, whose comics dialogue is a lot more contemplative. I thought his voice was more Benedict Cumberbatch-like initially. I honestly didn't think it was even Sturridge's real voice and that it was modulated to a lower pitch or something at first.
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Aug 18, 2022 00:13
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A lot of older bookworm ladies have been asking me about Neil Gaiman's books at the library since the show started. One lady reserved the first volume, and said she thinks Gwendoline Christie would be a great Death. I told her I wouldn't spoil anything 
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Aug 18, 2022 00:39
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Vegetable posted:Having not read the comic I thought that this show was pretty interesting. It’s idiosyncratic to say the least, and that’s probably good enough. Yeah there's a ton of CGI and it looks like they didn't quite have a budget for all of it. Not to poo poo on the artists, I'm sure they didn't get enough time or resources to do movie-level stuff. There's some good stuff and there's some bad stuff. It's tough though, because some stuff is so obviously dream-y that your brain has no reference for what would make it look real.
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Aug 18, 2022 00:48
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Everything being so dreamy makes the CG not matter too. I didn't care about this as much as Preys weird looking bear because it's mostly not supposed to be real kife and doesn't take me out of it (still liked Prey!)
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Aug 18, 2022 00:53
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DJ_Mindboggler posted:That one is kind of on the show, I don't think they really made clear why Dream needs the mask. Actually, I can't remember any time in the comics where he used the mask for anything besides a symbol of office. Like, I get that it's made of the same primordial gods whose remains were formed into the gates of Horn & Ivory, and is thus magical in some manner. But there's never a "Oh no, if only I had my mask this obstacle could be overcome!" moment that I'm aware of. Dream wears his helm every time he expects a fight. There's also a bit in the comics where he visits Delirium's realm to apologise and she says she could drive him mad because he isn't wearing his helm. But we never see him use it for protection, because apart from against Dee he never ends up fighting.
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Aug 18, 2022 01:30
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TeaJay posted:He wears it when he goes back to Hell in Season of Mists. They even make a point where Lucifer says "Take off that stupid helm and we'll talk" and Dream only does so after Lucifer promises he won't harm him in any way. And even then he's sweating like crazy after taking the helm off. So it's pretty much what he counted on would protect him from Lucifer, and it must have some serious power. I always got the impression that, helm or no, generally (and particularly inside of Hell) Lucifer is on a whole other power level than Dream. The helm (and the implication that Dream would even intend to fight him) was more offensive than anything else, like threatening an Abrams tank with a pistol. However, I've read the Lucifer series a few times, so my idea of his actual strength may not be supported in the text of The Sandman. Jedit posted:Dream wears his helm every time he expects a fight. There's also a bit in the comics where he visits Delirium's realm to apologise and she says she could drive him mad because he isn't wearing his helm. But we never see him use it for protection, because apart from against Dee he never ends up fighting. I had forgotten this part, good point. Still, with regard to the original post, the show hasn't really shown/explained anything about it (relative to the sand/ruby, which get examples of their power onscreen). DJ_Mindboggler fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 02:02
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Dream wore the helmet because it looked dope AF until some demon got his crappy fingerprints all over it.
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Aug 18, 2022 02:06
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I liked that when Matthew asked Dream if Lucifer was more powerful, Dream made absolutely no bones about stating that he wasn't even remotely anywhere in the same league as Lucifer.
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Aug 18, 2022 02:20
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I just finished the final episode and spotted what I think was a pretty cool detail. The very last shot of the demons chanting Lucifer looks like they made a hell version of St. Peter’s basilica that the crowd is gathered in front of.
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Aug 18, 2022 03:11
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My Lovely Horse posted:Sturridge's voice initially struck me as a bit "Christian Bale Batman" According to Gaiman, he was there on Tom's first day of shooting and had to tell him to stop being Batman, so I imagine it was a lot worse lol
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Aug 18, 2022 03:16
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