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Nah, if you have more factions then each of them just gets less ink. There's a reason that they killed off, absorbed or otherwise exiled the majority of the Clans that have ever existed
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Aug 17, 2022 05:59
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Comstar posted:Everything I’ve read in my whirlwind tour in sarna since 3025 is the universe would work better if all the great houses and bigger clans are broken up so everyone has a side they can pick and not feel too bad about We tried to tell everyone this but somehow our cyborg armies and liberal WMD deployments came off the wrong way.
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Aug 17, 2022 06:43
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General Battuta posted:We tried to tell everyone this but somehow our cyborg armies and liberal WMD deployments came off the wrong way. This has as much meaning in-universe as it does in real life with the fans.
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Aug 17, 2022 08:29
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I like how the canonical explanation for the Jihad is that the breaking of the Star League caused them to do an entirely unplanned and emotional fucky-wucky, and then they were just too committed to back down. So they took the army they were planning to use to genocide the Clans and just sort of adapted it to killing literally every single person that opposed them. Just one big "Well hell....guess we are doing this now.". It has the air of chaos and incompetence that so many real life conflicts flashpoint off of.
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Aug 17, 2022 09:15
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MadDogMike posted:Been trying to ease back into reading some of the novels since the current era seems to be getting more interesting than Dark Ages was to me. Picked up Redemption Rites and A Question of Survival; any other "current era" fiction worth checking out? Also, is it me or is Alaric self-sabotaging so badly he might as well be deliberately trying to do so? He pisses off Wolf's Dragoons (the people who made a VERY big mess for the Combine the last time they were this desperate and hosed with this badly), he's repaid the loyalty of the Wolves who didn't go by utterly abandoning them, and now he's thrown a hissy fit and hit the Ghost Bears right in their family by being mad a democratic vote wasn't unanimously in favor of bowing to him and licking his boots even though I expect the losers would have sucked it up and been loyal. I haven't read any of the ilClan Technical Readouts, but do they actually indicate the ilClan dominates the Inner Sphere by that point? Because given how well Alaric is emulating his genemother in political arrogance, it's starting to feel kind of unrealistic for him even with Terra to rule too many worlds given what a good job he's doing undermining his allies and antagonizing everyone else. Kind of hoping the setting goes the way it feels like it's going, where it feels like a bunch of smaller factions fighting things out. I'm pleased the two books I read were down to much smaller forces going for relatively small goals instead of RCTs smashing together. Feels exciting to have things down to just a handful of Mechs again. He absolutely is, and I am loving every second of it. Battletech as a setting may not be as constantly grimdark as 40k is, but I prefer this style of Grimdarkness where every influential person of note ends up planting the seeds of ruin for either themselves or for their heirs. And I do think that the new Star League is gonna conquer the entire Inner Sphere-- at least on paper, through a combination of conquest, utter exhaustion on the part of their enemies, and Clan Sea Fox' leverage of a new HPG system bringing some into the fold through negotiation instead of violence... only for the entire thing to collapse in the following era because Alaric' actions had long-reaching effects that outlive him.
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Aug 17, 2022 12:25
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Well this just got posted on the battletech forums:quote:There are no immediate plans for a time skip. We've got plenty of things to do in the here and now, both coming out of the Dark Age Era and setting up the ilClan Era. Which is news I liked to read.
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Aug 17, 2022 13:15
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A friend brought back a Hammerhead mini for me from Gencon. It had two identical torsos in it, mistake or is there a reason? All else I have more bits to add to my pile from the Timber Wolf and Wolfhound to make a future frankenmech out of.
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Aug 17, 2022 14:08
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Floppychop posted:A friend brought back a Hammerhead mini for me from Gencon. It had two identical torsos in it, mistake or is there a reason? Due to some quality issues with the first run CGL is throwing in an extra torso with all of the future Hammerhead minis to cover the folks that may have had a problem with theirs. Also, that post about the localized conflict is good news to me too. From the Dark Age run of books I enjoyed the stuff like Wars of the Republic Era a lot more than the run up to ilClan, so it's cool to see them continuing on that track
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Aug 17, 2022 14:54
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And now that I'm finally cleaning it I'm noticing it has two right arms and no left. How good is CGL is with replacements if I don't have a receipt?
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Aug 17, 2022 15:10
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Localized conflict narrative also helps to keep all factions engaged in /something/ while events happen around them. One of the biggest gripes I have about the Fedcom Civil War era for example is that there wasn't much for factions like the FWL or Capellan Confederation to /do/ while this giant conflict spanning from one end of the Inner Sphere to the other was raging, and even if the writers did give them something to do (such as the Combine/Bear War), it almost ended up relegated to the background by virtue of more important events happening at the time. The ilClan era by contrast has been pretty good about providing everyone with medium scale conflicts to deal with instead of one giant, all encompassing one that you keep having to find excuses to get people involved in. The reshuffling of borders also means that every faction now has to deal with the Clanners, rather than it being primarily a Steiner/Kurita problem that the rest of the Inner Sphere sits on their hands about and watches from afar. Rorahusky fucked around with this message at 15:16 on Aug 17, 2022 |
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Aug 17, 2022 15:13
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Floppychop posted:And now that I'm finally cleaning it I'm noticing it has two right arms and no left. How good is CGL is with replacements if I don't have a receipt? They’ve been super cool to me in the past, throwing in extra stuff for free cause they forgot a salvage box with my order. I doubt you’d have to provide much more than a picture, if that.
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Aug 17, 2022 15:51
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Mulva posted:I like how the canonical explanation for the Jihad is that the breaking of the Star League caused them to do an entirely unplanned and emotional fucky-wucky, and then they were just too committed to back down. So they took the army they were planning to use to genocide the Clans and just sort of adapted it to killing literally every single person that opposed them. Just one big "Well hell....guess we are doing this now.". It has the air of chaos and incompetence that so many real life conflicts flashpoint off of. Yeah, I’m glad they never implied the religious fanatics were actually competent, they made most of their progress via the shock of how suddenly viciously violent they were plus existing fault lines in their opponents making them conflict with each other, and once those things went away they got pounded fast. Though I find it kind of funny to imagine that if their original plan went off they might have actually been regarded as heroically as they imagined. While I think genocide of the Clans is way too far (certainly even if the warriors deserve it the lower castes don’t), I can’t see the average Inner Sphere resident being all too broken up over it. Hell, if they had responded to the Star League breaking up by going with Plan Kill Clans and trumpeted how they were willing to finally solve that problem while the so-called League members neglected the very reason it was re-founded for out of petty squabbling, they could very well have gotten a LOT of buy-in to the idea of people following them. But instead they freaked out and in the end the Clans wound up wiping away the last remnants of them instead.
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Aug 17, 2022 16:51
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I don't think the Clanocide would ever really have worked out, because I don't believe WoB was 1. united enough internally to prosecute such a long lasting strategy without suffering a schism, or 2. patient enough to avoid retaliating against anyone who deviated from their Holy Purpose with assassinations, shadow divisions, warships and WMDs. And even if it did work out, you still end up with a powerful and highly militarized Word of Blake in control of Terra and now the biggest threat to every other power in the Inner Sphere. The moment someone said "uhh this whole Second Star League is starting to feel a lot like Operation Scorpion succeeded" the Blakists would have deployed 'the SLDF' (themselves) to bring them in line and set off the Para-Jihad.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:00
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What’s the 3250/Gunslinger reference?
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Aug 17, 2022 17:06
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The introduction to the new reprint line of TROs, as well as a few other recent books like Battle of Tukayyid, have introductions set in the year 3250. People have been trying to mine them for information on this still-distant future, and some sort of implied rebirth of the old Star League Gunslingers program was IIRC mentioned.
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Aug 17, 2022 17:41
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I'm curious as to what is happening in the Clan Homeworlds in 3150-- the last update out of that area of space was set in what, the 3080s after the Wars of Reaving had concluded?
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Aug 17, 2022 17:53
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Nothing but G.R.O.S.S. meetings. Get Rid Of Spheroid traitorS
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Aug 17, 2022 17:59
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General Battuta posted:I don't think the Clanocide would ever really have worked out, because I don't believe WoB was 1. united enough internally to prosecute such a long lasting strategy without suffering a schism, or 2. patient enough to avoid retaliating against anyone who deviated from their Holy Purpose with assassinations, shadow divisions, warships and WMDs. Also they were going to wipe out ALL the Clans so eventually there's gonna be problems when they have troops appear above Arc-Royal and Barcella.
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Aug 17, 2022 18:24
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Kill Every Clanner would have been amazing but I don't think it would have gone well with all the Clan fans
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Aug 17, 2022 20:11
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They wouldn't have cared if the Clans were wiped out, but they WOULD care about the faction of crazed fanatics who had managed to build an army both willing and capable of committing mass genocide in secret, regardless of intentions, so I have no doubt the Jihad would have happened... it's just if they had been allowed to carry out their plan to Murder Death Kill all the Clanners, they would have gotten pissed at the IS for recoiling in fear and dread at the Blakists instead of welcoming them as saviors. No matter what, the Inner Sphere would have united to destroy them, if not for the threat they became than for the threat they WOULD have become.
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Aug 17, 2022 20:21
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Looking at aerospace fighters to 3d print and wow there's a lot of the same design with like an added stabilizer or something.
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Aug 17, 2022 21:55
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Rorahusky posted:No matter what, the Inner Sphere would have united to destroy them, if not for the threat they became than for the threat they WOULD have become. ... Are there Inner Sphere factions capable of looking that far ahead? I swear short-sightedness is like the Achilles heel of the Houses as a rule. General Battuta posted:I don't think the Clanocide would ever really have worked out, because I don't believe WoB was 1. united enough internally to prosecute such a long lasting strategy without suffering a schism, or 2. patient enough to avoid retaliating against anyone who deviated from their Holy Purpose with assassinations, shadow divisions, warships and WMDs. True, "too incompetent to carry out a plan even if the universe cooperated" is probably a fair assessment. God knows if the first attack of the Jihad happened over Blane's literally dead body chucked into space, they certainly had some coordination "issues" by default.
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Aug 18, 2022 00:32
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Looking at aerospace fighters to 3d print and wow there's a lot of the same design with like an added stabilizer or something. My reply is just going to sound like apologizing for the BT aesthetic here but for the longest time, a lot of BattleTech's mechanical design aesthetic (borrowed designs aside) was fixated on simple shapes and hard lines that evoked the segmentation seen in low-polygon CGI models of the time. The F-117 Nighthawk was an attractive aircraft to pop culture back then, to give an example for inspiration. IIRC, there were fewer artists at FASA back then too? It might just been Duane Loose for the most part except for the original Clan Invasion wave? edit: Dana Knutson drew for TRO 2750 and Loose did not do TRO 3055, 2750 is still not great. Now was it Kevin Long or Matt Plog who worked on most of 3060? Anyways I blame Duane Loose for everything because aside from the designs taken from anime, the original art for every 3025 'Mech/vehicle/ASF looks like a dumpy metal rectangular prism with limbs/wheels/fins slapped onto them. Or, in the case of TRO 3058, a dumpy metal egg instead. Even the newer or second-line Clan 'Mechs kind of returned to looking like obese metal mans missing their hands. The Studio Nue designs for FASA's attempt at BattleTech for the Japanese market were excellent however Tangentially related, focus 'Mechs: Starting with Project Phoenix (everyone hear me out on this), I feel like Chris Lewis led the way towards adding much more movement and distinguishing traits to the designs, but that TRO's requirements led to very little background art for scale, which resulted in a little uncanny valley effect in readers' comparison of them to comic book cyborg dudes/cyborg chickens. The non-TRO splash artwork of them in action finally brought out what I think was the nicer intended aesthetic, dynamic-looking technomonsters that could jump jet and step on you far faster than you could run from them. The art wasn't on the level that it is now, but it was a decent improvement, to say the very least. After that, the classic TRO Upgrades art with Brent Evans leading and Matt Plog returning and new contractors trying their hand at redesigns and new designs greatly increased the different looks of pretty much everything. Also all those adaptations of mechwarrior dark age/age of destruction designs but eh more edit: I'd say TRO designs started looking very good right around TRO 3085 and onward. I also liked a decent amount of TRO 3055 Upgrade but its general aesthetic isn't for everyone Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 09:37
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Man, dumpy metal egg designs are just the worst
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Aug 18, 2022 13:35
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I'll give you that they're funny sometimes! But no the Cataphract sucks that way too
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Aug 18, 2022 14:37
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I'm cool with the Cataphract because it's supposed to look like the best thing the Capellans could come up with. Then again the Caesar was apparently adopted to honor this guy and yeah I can see the resemblance
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Aug 18, 2022 15:02
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Nah, the Ceasar was just a re-engineered Cataphract for production on the New Syrtis production lines. Edit: The New Syrtins hate anything Capellan, they were probably refusing to touch the Cataphract until/unless it got redesigned to not look like a Cataphract. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 15:52
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The Flashman is RIGHT THERE! (Well, until they rehabilitated it)
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Aug 18, 2022 16:43
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You can't build a Flashman out of the Cataphract's skeleton. You can build a Caesar out of one.
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Aug 18, 2022 16:47
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Good to hear Catalyst is taking the fiction in the direction of more localized conflicts rather than giant Sphere-wide ones, almost like bringing it back to the 3rd Succession War (Except better technology and more troops). Got my hands on a copy of Empire Alone, halfway through it, The way the Clan Protectorate plays both sides makes a lot more sense (Sea Fox fuckery is at the root of it), but my biggest complaint is still that there's so little detail on Spirit Cat society after 15 years of them resettling on Marik. We know they have sibkos, lower castes, that they're rebuilding their touman with new Clusters... but why is Rikkard Nova Cat still unblooded? The Spirit Cats can safely assume they're the last Nova Cats out there with bloodnames, there's got to be a ton of vacancies. Are they ever going to start up a new Clan Council, do bloodname trials, etc.? Also, the amount of Clan characters in the book without Bloodnames is kind of silly. I don't think that many Star Colonels end up being unblooded, yet nearly every cluster in the book is being led by someone without a bloodname. A minor quibble honestly. I just want more detail on my favorite (minor) faction. Maybe they're waiting for Alaric to Super secretly reveal he's been hiding Kisho and the surviving Nova Cats under his billowing cloak, and that if the Spirit Cats side with him he'll let the two groups revitalize a Clan Nova Cat under IlClanship protection, like he did with the Smoke Jags.. But that would require Alaric being crazy competent, and it seems like they are slowly making him less and less competent after he peaked with conquering Terra with literally one bump in the road. I have hope maybe one day they'll do a novel just on the Spirit Cats, but to be fair, Kurita, Davion, and Steiner are all waiting on novels themselves. Also, while I like the Dragoons taking it to the Wolf Empire, I was really hoping they'd just die after what happened to them on Terra. Not because I hate them, but because they've already revived themselves seeral times, let them die from their mistakes. Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 18:18
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This version of the Dragoons is good, because a lot of them did die for their incredibly bad mistakes and this is unambiguously Good for the outfit as a whole. I liked Redemption Rites a lot for actually demonstrating that the Dragoons are in fact Very Good At This in a way where it is believable. Instead of it being an entirely informed attribute that we were supposed to take at face value.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:10
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Agreed new Dragoons are cool in the new books and I'm glad somebody decided to run with the true reaction to the line regiments heeding to Alaric's beck and call: "what? No that's loving stupid." As to the lack of blooded Clan commanders in the case of the Wolf Empire remnants it's easy to see (like with the Sudeten Falcons) but I'd also like to know if the Spirit Cats just are eschewing the blood names for some reason in their Clan.
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Aug 18, 2022 23:15
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:A minor quibble honestly. I just want more detail on my favorite (minor) faction. Maybe they're waiting for Alaric to Super secretly reveal he's been hiding Kisho and the surviving Nova Cats under his billowing cloak, and that if the Spirit Cats side with him he'll let the two groups revitalize a Clan Nova Cat under IlClanship protection, like he did with the Smoke Jags.. But that would require Alaric being crazy competent, and it seems like they are slowly making him less and less competent after he peaked with conquering Terra with literally one bump in the road. I have hope maybe one day they'll do a novel just on the Spirit Cats, but to be fair, Kurita, Davion, and Steiner are all waiting on novels themselves. Eh, I don't think he's completely incompetent so much as arrogant and unable to see that others don't see the universe the way he does. If anybody straight up bows to him without any quibbling, he'd be fine (even magnanimous) with them, and I expect the Cats are a likely possibility to take that route. One thing that does encourage the possibility of your spoiler (or Alaric doing it later) is if he's "avenging the Nova Cats" that gives a very good reason for his new realm to clash with the Draconis Combine, and they've been riding high long enough I feel like they're due for that kind of setback given how the Houses tend to ebb and flow in the setting (though I hope the Fed Suns stay kind of weak even as sort of a fan of them simply because they haven't really done the underdog thing much and it makes for some interesting story possibilities) quote:Also, while I like the Dragoons taking it to the Wolf Empire, I was really hoping they'd just die after what happened to them on Terra. Not because I hate them, but because they've already revived themselves several times, let them die from their mistakes. I rather like the new Dragoons; they fit great in the new "smaller powers duking it out somewhat desperately" era that seems to be taking shape. I enjoyed Redemption Rites; the Dragoons matched the current Clan theme of the left-behinds having to deal with what was left from those who went to Terra (in this case actually court-martialing the stupid bastards instead of just shrugging it off like might be expected) and they felt like they lack the usual "protagonist armor" you'd expect. They had logical difficulties based on their forces used (may I say I LOVE the fact they went with Zeta Battalion instead of the lazy option of "remaking the Black Widows", and Zeta suffered the appropriate issues of an all-assault force with slow speed and lack of good scouting) and while they "won" their victories were limited and in a real sense symbolic (though holy crap what a symbol, loved when I saw it spoiled a while back here and it hit just as well reading it myself). It also showed the Wolves doing their own clever things with what they had, and most were sympathetic enough. I loved that in both Redemption Rites and A Question of Survival really; the "bad guys" were competent and many were portrayed reasonably sympathetically, I could easily see a fan of them reading the book and feeling like they were the protagonists (if protagonists of a tragedy, maybe). But of course the big reason I'm glad they kept the Dragoons is because I think it helps herald mercenaries coming back to the fore more. Which only makes sense given factional weakness and people splitting off makes them more valuable and more likely to be spawned. As mercenaries are without a doubt my favorite Battletech faction, I highly approve of this idea  .
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Aug 19, 2022 09:00
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Fair points on the Dragoon stuff. I do like that there were actual consequences for the Dragoon's complete buffoonery in going in to support Alaric, especially for the leadership that made it happen.MadDogMike posted:Eh, I don't think he's completely incompetent so much as arrogant and unable to see that others don't see the universe the way he does. If anybody straight up bows to him without any quibbling, he'd be fine (even magnanimous) with them, and I expect the Cats are a likely possibility to take that route. One thing that does encourage the possibility of your spoiler (or Alaric doing it later) is if he's "avenging the Nova Cats" that gives a very good reason for his new realm to clash with the Draconis Combine, and they've been riding high long enough I feel like they're due for that kind of setback given how the Houses tend to ebb and flow in the setting (though I hope the Fed Suns stay kind of weak even as sort of a fan of them simply because they haven't really done the underdog thing much and it makes for some interesting story possibilities) Yeah, I think there are three points in favor of Alaric not just blowing smoke about his whole "We must avenge the Nova Cats annihilation by the Draconis Combine, namely; 1 - he's said this in front of several leaders and crowds who would have zero reason to care about the Nova Cats, and who wouldn't be getting anything out of it, so it makes a poor negotiating or motivation for others. Therefore Alaric must actually care about it. 2 - IRL, Draconis Combine has been doing really well lately, and like you said, they could use being knocked down a peg or two. Also, I think it's a blackmark against the franchise that the Draconis Combine as a faction routinely gets away with genocides and religious/ethnic persecutions. In a GrimDark setting, that could be excused (Because no faction there is supposed to be good, or even liked), but I feel BattleTech is more GrimNoble, and it's really weird that they keep doing these actions in recent fictions and not seeming to suffer for them. 3 - Draconis Combine is over-extended, has burned bridges with pretty much all their allies, and have two fronts pretty weak due to genociding the Cats and over-committing to capturing New Avalon. And they've lost the Wolf's Dragoons that was helping them make a lot of headway. My ideal scenario would be the Ravens and Ghost Bears, under Alaric's encouragement, start f*cking up the Draconis Combine, and Yori and Julian make a marriage alliance as they have no other allies at this point. Any Nobility on either side of the border that oppose this move can go serve on the frontline against the IlClan. A marriage alliance would also let Yori technically "keep" New Avalon while still handing it back to Julian, and it would solve one of BattleTech's biggest fiction stupidities; that all five heirs/leaders of the Great Houses right now are not hitched and trying to make heirs. Only point against the above happening is that a big IlClan vs. Combine/Feds Sun War would seem to go against CGL's direction into more local smaller conflicts.
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Aug 19, 2022 15:25
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I blame writers who just want to jack off about Samurai for 2. Theodore Kurita was the worst about this. "Oh, he's a reformer, the Combine are good guys now!" Oh yeah? Why's it still illegal to be Jewish there? At least Handbook: House Kurita owned up to the fact that even under Teddy it was still a dystopia.
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Aug 19, 2022 19:04
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Fair points on the Dragoon stuff. I do like that there were actual consequences for the Dragoon's complete buffoonery in going in to support Alaric, especially for the leadership that made it happen. Yeah, think I've mentioned this here before but the Draconis Combine emulating fascist WWII Japan with the genocide crap is something that's aged badly as time goes on, including the setting accepting "awesome bushido samurai spirit lets them win!" unironically. Fascists have pretty well been established historically as actually being terrible at armies because they put ideology over reality, the DC should not realistically be an exception even if Theodore and the Clans forced some changes. I get the idea of a "darker shade of grey" faction, but the real world associations make me uncomfortable with how they keep being successful at being bad. Besides, pushing them towards actual feudal samurai instead of the psychos trying to justify their crap with samurai propaganda would be much more interesting, the samurai were a lot more flexible and less lockstep loyal. Hell, make the Combine emulate the Warring States period and you've got something that fits great with the current localized conflicts modern era. Everybody else is finally cracking up, why not the Combine too? Let's turn EVERYBODY into the Free Worlds League! quote:My ideal scenario would be the Ravens and Ghost Bears, under Alaric's encouragement, start f*cking up the Draconis Combine, and Yori and Julian make a marriage alliance as they have no other allies at this point. Any Nobility on either side of the border that oppose this move can go serve on the frontline against the IlClan. A marriage alliance would also let Yori technically "keep" New Avalon while still handing it back to Julian, and it would solve one of BattleTech's biggest fiction stupidities; that all five heirs/leaders of the Great Houses right now are not hitched and trying to make heirs. Eh, can't see Julian getting away with marrying the lady associated with a LOT of atrocities against his people now even if he wants to (a big if), and as you say it breaks with the apparent "factions are fragmenting" feel of the current era. It's probably more logical to me that the DC loses New Avalon because they have to hastily retract their overdrawn forces to deal with the ilClan coming for them and Julian just happens to get New Avalon by default/a quick ceasefire deal. As for the other factions, Lyrans and FWL are already kind of splintering in response to the Clan withdrawal, and the Capellan/MOC split also seems to be proceeding ahead in a way that could wreck Daoshen's realm thanks to his god complex. Fed Suns is already pretty crippled even without splitting but if you want to break them up there's plenty of options with the Draconis and Capellan Marches. So if the DC get aboard the civil fracturing game and Alaric gets smacked in the face by reality hard enough he can't rule the Inner Sphere, we'll have our universe of crippled factions only able to squabble for smaller stakes all set (though I'm not sure how the inevitable Home Clan attack will go into an even more fractured Inner Sphere).
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Aug 19, 2022 19:20
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I think they'll have a real fight on New Avalon because each book has had a couple of big multi-unit fights. Tamar Rising had Pandora and Sudeten, Empire Alone had Kalidasa and Stewart. New Avalon isn't just a political victory, it's the biggest producer of weapons in the entire Federated Suns. You just don't give that up.
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Aug 19, 2022 19:42
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The cover of Dominions Divided is Toranaga and a Davion Marauder II (Julian? I have no idea what he pilots anymore) duking it out on New Avalon.
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Aug 19, 2022 20:38
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Yeah that's him. His Templar got totaled on New Syrtis in the same fight where he lost his leg.
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Aug 19, 2022 21:04
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Do you guys want to hear my word of blake rap album
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Aug 19, 2022 21:05
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