|
The Moon Monster posted:Not really. It's certainly possible to make a game that's a soulslike and a metroidvania, much like you can make a game that's an fps and an rpg, but one doesn't particularly imply the other. hard disagree with every word of this post. immersive storytelling, a focus on guided exploration, gameplay consisting mainly of combat, backtracking and opening up shortcuts, character progression, an interconnected world. that's a metroidvania. which is a cool fun word that everyone should enjoy using. The one thing that makes souls games somewhat stand out is that you don't ever upgrade your movement like in most metroidvanias; don't know why that one difference is enough to give it its own fuckin genre when it shares a bunch of other characteristics with metroidvanias though. Earwicker posted:that depends on how you define "soulslike" i guess. i mean elden ring uses almost every major mechanic from the souls games so its certainly very souls-like in that sense, but it's not really a "metroidvania" due to the way the world is built I have not played Elden Ring, but afaik, it uses some of the same mechanics as dark souls, like "save points," "rpg-like character progression," and "combat." these are not exactly fuckin unique to "souls" games and not really genre defining on their own. Elden Ring is an open-world rpg, which is a genre that shares a lot of characteristics with metroidvanias but as you say is distinct. calling it "soulslike" is, if anything, deceptive, because it gives the false impression that it's a metroidvania like dark souls. Doctor J Off posted:Is this what it finally takes to dethrone SOTN as the greatest ever metroidvania, to call Dark Souls a metroidvania? i hope not, SOTN is good and Dark Souls is mediocre edit: also the greatest ever metroidvania is Hollow Knight
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 23:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 15:50 |
|
|
Doctor J Off posted:Is this what it finally takes to dethrone SOTN as the greatest ever metroidvania, to call Dark Souls a metroidvania? Hollow Knight is a better metroidvania than either of the ones you mentioned. It is the GOAT and all games should just be called Hollow Knight precursors or copies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 23:43
|
|
|
Waltzing Along posted:Hollow Knight is a better metroidvania than either of the ones you mentioned. It is the GOAT and all games should just be called Hollow Knight precursors or copies. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 23:43
|
|
|
I feel like the kind of person that doesn't like Hollow Knight is the same kind of person that doesn't like Breath of the Wild. A whiny baby that doesn't understand how to experience joy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 23:49
|
|
|
dr_rat posted:I only play games which have been banned in Germany for not being fun or interesting enough to be considered a form of entertainment. You could have just said that you're a big fan of Nintendo
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2022 23:51
|
|
|
Waltzing Along posted:Yeah, it's more of a crappy ubisoft open world game. Except without all the QoL stuff that makes ubi games somewhat bearable. other than being open world im not sure how its similar to any ubisoft game ive ever played. its more like dark souls but, open world.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:04
|
|
|
Do you have to climb towers to unlock objectives in Elden Ring?
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:06
|
|
|
neato burrito posted:I feel like the kind of person that doesn't like Hollow Knight is the same kind of person that doesn't like Breath of the Wild. A whiny baby that doesn't understand how to experience joy. I loved HK and hated BotW
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:07
|
|
|
its kind of interesting that so many people always assumes "unpopular opinion" means a negative opinion, and most people choose to interpret the exercise as simply saying "popular game X is actually bad". which is dumb, because that's not an unpopular opinion in any sense. name any hugely popular game you can think and there are people talking poo poo about it all over the internet. it's a popular activity. just like with music, making GBS threads on the beatles or stones or whatever is not an unpopular take but one of the most popular there is, because the most common response on the internet to someone saying "i like X" is someone else saying "X sucks actually", and i suspect that tendency is even stronger with gamers
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:08
|
|
|
Hollow Knight is good but overrated. Like a solid 8/10. I would dock an extra point for the terrible map system but I’m feeling charitable.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:10
|
|
|
neato burrito posted:Do you have to climb towers to unlock objectives in Elden Ring? There are objectives in Elden Ring?
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:11
|
|
|
Elden ring would be a better game if they got rid of all the sorcery and magic stuff and embraced weapon arts and unique weapons and stuff Imo. The magic could all have been unique weapon arts and then they could make interesting boss fights again (ex sekiro) instead of a thinly veiled RPG.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:17
|
|
|
Also, if they leaned into the lack of a map. Being able to find maps, the same as any other open world game (with obvious places to go do things), but not actually having the QoL stuff from other games was just lame. Either do what works or do something different. Fromsoft fanboys think ER is so great because the map is empty. You can turn markers off in other games, though. ER should have leaned into no maps and made people actually explore. But there are maps. The maps make it obvious where things are. It's a half measure. ER would be much better with a quest tracking system and quest markers on the map.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:20
|
|
|
Earwicker posted:its kind of interesting that so many people always assumes "unpopular opinion" means a negative opinion, and most people choose to interpret the exercise as simply saying "popular game X is actually bad". which is dumb, because that's not an unpopular opinion in any sense. name any hugely popular game you can think and there are people talking poo poo about it all over the internet. it's a popular activity. just like with music, making GBS threads on the beatles or stones or whatever is not an unpopular take but one of the most popular there is, because the most common response on the internet to someone saying "i like X" is someone else saying "X sucks actually", and i suspect that tendency is even stronger with gamers This is a good point, but I think there's a good reason for why this is. "Popular thing sucks" is common because popular things are consumed by more people, and thus you have a higher chance of one of us having played the thing in order to generate an opinion about it. And since this is the "unpopular opinions" thread, if we post in this thread about a popular thing, the opinion is probably "it's bad", because "popular thing is good" is by definition off-topic in this thread. It gets weird and meta when some people play by the rules that "unpopular" actually means "unpopular in this thread", so you get people saying "unpopular opinion: asscreed is actually good", because even though asscreed is a popular game (and therefore popularly seen as good or worth one's time/money), this thread mostly shits on them, so saying they're good is unpopular in the context of this thread.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:20
|
|
|
galagazombie posted:Hollow Knight is good but overrated. Like a solid 8/10. I would dock an extra point for the terrible map system but I’m feeling charitable. I agree, it's a solid 8/10. I don't think that it's overrated in general though, because a solid 8/10 is better than like 99% of games ever made.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:21
|
|
|
QuarkJets posted:I agree, it's a solid 8/10. I don't think that it's overrated in general though, because a solid 8/10 is better than like 99% of games ever made. This is true. The problem is video game ratings are broken. It's such a massive LOL that ER has over 9/10 average ratings. Which means a ton of people say it is 10/10. 10/10 don't have the massive amount of problems that ER has. 10/10 means the game is perfect and couldn't be improved on in any way. There are very few games that are that good. ER is a solid 6. Maybe 7. It's better than average but half the game is bad. If they removed the open world and just made it 100% of the time DS styled dungeon areas? It's a fantastic game. But the open world and all that it entails is so lousy it's impossible to honestly give the game a high grade. Too much hyperbole in game ratings.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:26
|
|
|
Breath of the wild is so fun. It is leaps and bounds beyond any other Zelda game imo. I have played and beaten like…four other ones I think. Botw is nearly perfect. If the divine beast dungeons were more fun it would be flawless
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:27
|
|
|
I also think there's another weird thing about consensus on art: if something is regarded as good by popular opinion, I feel like you always get lots of controversial opinions about that (Marvel movies, etc). But if something is regarded as BAD by popular opinion, I feel you don't get as much controversy over this. Like, I never hear people say "Actually, The Room is Good". It's also important to distinguish "bad by popular opinion" from "not known by popular opinion". Some people say stuff like "I can't believe I'm the only person who thinks <niche thing> is good!", but that's not really the case - it's just that most people don't know about it. and that's not interesting
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:27
|
|
|
neato burrito posted:I feel like the kind of person that doesn't like Hollow Knight is the same kind of person that doesn't like Breath of the Wild. A whiny baby that doesn't understand how to experience joy. BoTW was cool but my weapon breaking all the time wasn’t so cool.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:28
|
|
|
Bismack Billabongo posted:Breath of the wild is so fun. It is leaps and bounds beyond any other Zelda game imo. I have played and beaten like…four other ones I think. Botw is nearly perfect. If the divine beast dungeons were more fun it would be flawless What are the Zeldas that you've played and beaten.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:29
|
|
|
I think my biggest problem w/ BotW is it's a Zelda game in name only. Like Link's Crossbow Training or the Hyrule Warriors games. It's not a real Zelda game. Change it to Legend of Griselda and It's a great game. But as a Zelda it's awful.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:31
|
|
|
BotW is a fun exploration game with a divisive equipment system and difficulty curve. Hating it is okay, you just don't like what makes it fun. It's definitely not a game with some for everyone.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:33
|
|
|
galagazombie posted:Hollow Knight is good but overrated. Like a solid 8/10. I would dock an extra point for the terrible map system but I’m feeling charitable. Hollow Knight is the best metroidvania ever and also not a soulslike despite copying the plot and setting from souls games. DontMockMySmock posted:hard disagree with every word of this post. To me the thing that makes a game a metroidvania is that you gain new abilities that change the way you interact with the world and open new paths/areas. In the Dark Souls series, the games I would say define what a soulslike is, you just kill stuff that is in your way or occasionally kill stuff that had a key to open a door that was in your way, or was standing in front of a lever to open a door that was in your way (hey, Doom IS a soulslike!). Your ability to interact with the world remains consistent from beginning to end. But you're also ignoring the most important part which is that soulslikes have combat that is substantially like Dark Souls which e.g. Super Metroid does not. I guess if you don't like soulslikes you wouldn't care about that, but it's a major part of why the games are popular. satanic splash-back posted:BotW is a fun exploration game with a divisive equipment system and difficulty curve. BotW would be a good game but the durability system completely ruins it. It's like eating a delicious meal but every minute or two someone walks by and smacks you in the back of the head. Oh wait wrong thread.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:34
|
|
|
BotW needed a couple more dungeons in the vein of Hyrule Castle and a lot more enemy variety. Where's the Redeads and Darknuts. Some ancient temple in the jungle area or a cavern system under Hebra would've been cool.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:35
|
|
|
CRAZY KNUCKLES FAN posted:BotW needed a couple more dungeons in the vein of Hyrule Castle and a lot more enemy variety. Where's the Redeads and Darknuts. Some ancient temple in the jungle area or a cavern system under Hebra would've been cool. Thank God I'm not the only one that thinks that. Game was like half done, definitely needs dungeons. And shrines are not dungeons. Basically as said above it's an ok open world game but a terrible Zelda. wilfredmerriweathr fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Aug 18, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:39
|
|
|
CRAZY KNUCKLES FAN posted:BotW needed a couple more dungeons in the vein of Hyrule Castle and a lot more enemy variety. Where's the Redeads and Darknuts. Some ancient temple in the jungle area or a cavern system under Hebra would've been cool. Yeah, the saving grace of the game heavily discouraging combat is that combat is pretty shallow and there are only something like 5-10 enemy types.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:43
|
|
|
The Moon Monster posted:To me the thing that makes a game a metroidvania is that you gain new abilities that change the way you interact with the world and open new paths/areas. In the Dark Souls series, the games I would say define what a soulslike is, you just kill stuff that is in your way or occasionally kill stuff that had a key to open a door that was in your way, or was standing in front of a lever to open a door that was in your way (hey, Doom IS a soulslike!). Your ability to interact with the world remains consistent from beginning to end. so you're saying that darksouls is actually a vagrant storylike
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:47
|
|
|
Arguing about videogame genres is 10x dumber than arguing about videogames, already a questionable pursuit.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:49
|
|
|
The Moon Monster posted:
Na it’s more like you bought a new car but you have to go replace the motor every few weeks and the warranty doesn’t cover it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:51
|
|
|
Anyone seriously bothered by the durability in BotW needs to reevaluate their life imo. Nothing lasts forever, sometimes you need to use new things or stop killing everything with weapons instead of infinite bombs or arrows.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:53
|
|
|
satanic splash-back posted:Anyone seriously bothered by the durability in BotW needs to reevaluate their life imo. Nothing lasts forever, sometimes you need to use new things or stop killing everything with weapons instead of infinite bombs or arrows. gently caress the giant's knife
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:53
|
|
|
The Moon Monster posted:But you're also ignoring the most important part which is that soulslikes have combat that is substantially like Dark Souls which e.g. Super Metroid does not. I guess if you don't like soulslikes you wouldn't care about that, but it's a major part of why the games are popular. Sure, I suppose you can use the word "souls-like" to accurately describe the combat, specifically. but that's not a genre of videogame. We don't go around calling any game where you jump on top of enemies to kill them "mario-likes," and pretend that they're special and different - they're platformers. The Moon Monster posted:To me the thing that makes a game a metroidvania is that you gain new abilities that change the way you interact with the world and open new paths/areas. In the Dark Souls series, the games I would say define what a soulslike is, you just kill stuff that is in your way or occasionally kill stuff that had a key to open a door that was in your way, or was standing in front of a lever to open a door that was in your way (hey, Doom IS a soulslike!). Your ability to interact with the world remains consistent from beginning to end. this is probably the best argument against my point of view. But I'm going to go ahead and say that the difference between getting a double-jump that lets you get to a high area and getting a key that lets you get to a locked area aren't fundamentally different. It's got the same gameplay loop of "kill a boss/find a thing, unlock progression to new area of a large and exploration-friendly world" that is the fundamental nature of the metroidvania.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 00:57
|
|
|
Caring about weapon durability in BotW is passe. Just run by everything. It's not like you have to fight anything in that game to progress. The combat system is bad. The enemis are bad. The weapons are bad. And it's all pointless.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 01:01
|
|
|
I think the Bokoblins are funny and do funny things.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 01:02
|
|
|
DontMockMySmock posted:Sure, I suppose you can use the word "souls-like" to accurately describe the combat, specifically. but that's not a genre of videogame. We don't go around calling any game where you jump on top of enemies to kill them "mario-likes," and pretend that they're special and different - they're platformers. Souls games have spawned a bunch of games that imitate their combat system and people have starting calling soulslikes. If you don't want to consider that a genre then fine, whatever, but other people will continue to do so. DontMockMySmock posted:this is probably the best argument against my point of view. But I'm going to go ahead and say that the difference between getting a double-jump that lets you get to a high area and getting a key that lets you get to a locked area aren't fundamentally different. It's got the same gameplay loop of "kill a boss/find a thing, unlock progression to new area of a large and exploration-friendly world" that is the fundamental nature of the metroidvania. Getting to new areas when you complete a challenge is, like, every videogame that isn't internet Chess or Puzzle Bobble or something. Metroidvanias letting you access new areas that were always there but you couldn't reach because you couldn't double jump or teleport or whatever is their defining characteristic. The Moon Monster fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Aug 18, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 01:06
|
|
|
I get that some people like cosplaying as Indiana Jones but some of us are smart enough to realize exploration is bad for video games and a waste of game developers efforts and/or a waste of the users time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 01:09
|
|
|
Earwicker posted:its kind of interesting that so many people always assumes "unpopular opinion" means a negative opinion, and most people choose to interpret the exercise as simply saying "popular game X is actually bad". which is dumb, because that's not an unpopular opinion in any sense. name any hugely popular game you can think and there are people talking poo poo about it all over the internet. it's a popular activity. just like with music, making GBS threads on the beatles or stones or whatever is not an unpopular take but one of the most popular there is, because the most common response on the internet to someone saying "i like X" is someone else saying "X sucks actually", and i suspect that tendency is even stronger with gamers I appreciate you trying to elevate the conversation beyond X sucks / is good. What would a truly unpopular opinion look like?
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 01:09
|
|
|
neato burrito posted:What would a truly unpopular opinion look like? I am hoping beyond hope that the weapons in BotW 2 are even less durable.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 01:14
|
|
|
giogadi posted:This is a good point, but I think there's a good reason for why this is. "Popular thing sucks" is common because popular things are consumed by more people, and thus you have a higher chance of one of us having played the thing in order to generate an opinion about it. And since this is the "unpopular opinions" thread, if we post in this thread about a popular thing, the opinion is probably "it's bad", because "popular thing is good" is by definition off-topic in this thread. neato burrito posted:I appreciate you trying to elevate the conversation beyond X sucks / is good. What would a truly unpopular opinion look like? a truly unpopular opinion would be an opinion about a topic that is not a popular subject of discussion. so like, bringing up some weird/small/old game that not many people have heard of and talking about why its cool and more people should know about it i mean it doesn't even have to be obscure. for example, i'd love to see more games in the style of Return of the Obra Dinn. that seems to be a fairly unpopular opinion (in spite of that game's success) because i dont see anyone making any!
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 01:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 15:50 |
|
|
Duck and Cover posted:I get that some people like cosplaying as Indiana Jones but some of us are smart enough to realize exploration is bad for video games and a waste of game developers efforts and/or a waste of the users time. how is it a waste of the users time if the user enjoys it 
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2022 01:29
|
|