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Pathfinder, but new! It's not like first edition for anyone who got scared off of that. It's much newer and fancier. Taking into account some of the good things about both 3.5 and 4th edition dungeons and dragons. Combining them into a new system with both more crunch but still way less than first edition Pathfinder. Why should I play Pathfinder when 5E exists? Look, there's a million answers for this one. For players it allows people to get into a slightly more crunchy combat system, an interesting three actions system that lets them do more than one thing each combat turn, and a character build system that actually allows you options and chioces every level, as opposed to simply hitting the big level up button and seeing all your numbers get higher with no input from you. It also gets rid of Caster supremacy. spellcasters are still extremely strong, but a lot of their strength is in their utility now. The fighter, surprisingly enough is probably the biggest damage class in the game, which feels amazing. From the Gamemaster perspective: The math works a lot better. My biggest frustration in playing 5e was the fact that the monster math, and even the CR ratings just seemed totally random and bullshit. In pathfinder the math works a lot better and it's easy to adjust encounters on the fly for smaller/larger parties. Either adding or removing a creature, or just applying the "Weak" or "Elite" template to an already existing monster to help adjust the encounter without changing anything else. Pathfinder also eliminates the lack of rules and guidance for GMs. Actually having rules for even the most obtuse ways of playing. You don't have to use these if you don't want to, but they're there for anyone who wants actual rules for stuff that dnd would just handwave and tell the GM to wing it. There's also the fact that all of the rules are fully available online. If you're ever curious about any piece of content you can just go ahead and read it.The Archives of Nethys are the most popular place to do so. What does a player coming from 5e need to know? The main difference combatwise is the three-action system. In combat each player has three actions. You can use all three to move. All three to attack, or a mix of any variety of other actions. There's a multiple attack penalty to discourage people from just using all their actions to attack. Encouraging you to use other actions to support your allies or debuff the enemy. A crit is +10 over armor class. This means that fighters and martial classes with bonuses to hit can poo poo out crits easier than anyone else. As an example of this, people trained in intimidation can lower the AC of enemies for one turn, and lore heavy characters can Identify specific weaknesses of monsters. Either figuring out their likely tactics, or finding out any innate resistances or weaknesses. (A lot more monsters are resistant to specific weapon damage than in 5e) Attacks of opportunity have been removed from most characters. Only fighters or particularly disciplined elite enemies (Bosses) Tend to have it. This encourages players to move around more and not just run up to each other and stay still until the other guy is dead. Okay, I'm interested. How do I get started? The easiest way to get started is to pick up the Beginner Box. Either at your local gaming store, or on any virtual tabletop product. This is an extremely cool dungeon crawl, coming with multiple premade characters, explanations of how to use all their abilities, and it even leans into another prewritten adventure if you're interested in continuing the story afterwards! It has a solo adventure so you can check out the rules in a smaller, less stressful session as well. It's pretty much the perfect product for anyone curious about dipping their toes in the pond that is Pathfinder. Playing it in person is easy enough, but there's also plenty of Virtual tabletops available. Beginner box for Foundry: https://paizo.com/products/btq02d6p Foundry is the newest VTT, and it's the one I'm going to shill for. Much better than roll20, and a lot cheaper than other alternatives. https://marketplace.roll20.net/browse/bundle/8453/pathfinder-second-edition-beginner-box For people who prefer roll20, there's an option for them. The actual physical box is available in pretty much any local nerd store or amazon. Feel free to grab it from who you want to support! Adventure Paths! The Premade campaigns of Pathfinder. There's a pretty big variety of Adventure Paths, with a few caveats. Age of Ashes The first one made. This is fun but I wouldn't recommend it to someone new. it was being written as they were developing the ruleset, and it shows. The combats are brutally hard and it's difficult to recommend this to someone over any of the later books. Extinction Curse An action heavy path that somehow involves clowns and the circus? I'm not really sure about this one, man. Agents of Edgewatch This one I actually have a bunch of experience with! The players are city guardsmen who are newly signed in. Working to defend the biggest city in the setting during a once-in-a-century festival. Lots of serial killers and vicious murderers, so be careful of some trigger warnings. Also some players may not want to play as cops, but it leaves it open to playing as mercenaries as well. The players are assumed to be doing nonlethal damage at all times, even with spells. It's a pretty unique and interesting path! Abomination Vaults A direct continuation of the Beginner Box. It's a dungeon crawl, and it's one of the most popular adventure paths there is. It's so popular it even got ported to 5e! It's been described as diablolike and extremely action heavy, so any players interested in that, this is a good place to start. Fists of the Ruby Phoenix You're in a martial arts tournament. That's it. That's the plot. Don't expect a lot of heavy roleplaying here, just big battles in big arenas. Strength of Thousands The players are new initiates to Pathfinders biggest wizard school. All classes get a free level in either mage or druid, depending on which stat is higher. It's also apparently one of the more roleplaying heavy pre-mades. The African inspired theme is also surprisingly popular for anyone looking for something different! Quest for the Frozen Flame An outdoor/survival themed adventure path with lots of frozen tundra and exploring! Outlaws of Alkenstar One of the newer ones. This is a heavy gun related adventure, and perfect for if your players all want to play gunslingers. Lots of steampunk inspired stuff as well. Blood Lords This came out along with the playable undead rules. The players are some of the few living characters in an undead ruled kingdom (Or not living, you know.) The first adventure that expects an evil alignment. The kingdom is Lawful Evil, specifically. Haven't heard much about this yet, since it just came out, but it's looking entertaining! Resources for players https://pathbuilder2e.com/ The premier character builder. This is android and web only. No iphone version available! It's free to use unless you want to make a pet class or multiclass. A collection of various guides! Every single rule available in Pathfinder. Online for free. Buy the books to support Paizo, or if you prefer having them in physical format. The Iconics of PF2. Pregenerated sample characters The beginner box characters Jarvisi fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Aug 18, 2022 |
# ? Aug 18, 2022 02:00 |
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# ? May 16, 2024 18:33 |
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Also feel free to let me know if there's any info you'd like added!
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 02:01 |
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Here's the "PF2 intro for 5e players" I posted last thread: So, the big core concepts that define PF2 look a little something like this:
So, other than the above, what are highlights about the system?
So, what don't I love?
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 02:19 |
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Might be good to mention that Paizo has teamed up with Foundry Virtual Tabletop to start releasing full Adventure Paths there. Beginner's Box, Abomination Vaults, Outlaws of Alkenstar, and some Bounties are fully released as of August 2022. The quality (for Abomination Vaults, anyway) is very good and my group will probably pick up more of them after we're done AV. Content links for Paizo and Foundry VTT are here.
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 02:22 |
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Jarvisi posted:Every single rule available in Pathfinder. Online for free. Buy the books to support Paizo, or if you prefer having them in physical format. This is a link to 1e nethys. Also, I'd post a link to the download for the Iconic Pregens as they are good sample characters.
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 02:28 |
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SilverMike posted:Might be good to mention that Paizo has teamed up with Foundry Virtual Tabletop to start releasing full Adventure Paths there. Beginner's Box, Abomination Vaults, Outlaws of Alkenstar, and some Bounties are fully released as of August 2022. The quality (for Abomination Vaults, anyway) is very good and my group will probably pick up more of them after we're done AV. I know someone who used the official Foundry VTT release for Outlaws of Alkenstar and said it was fantastic, so it seems like it's consistent good results and not just a one-off.
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 02:39 |
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Toshimo posted:This is a link to 1e nethys. Fixed and added!
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 02:57 |
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Roadie posted:I know someone who used the official Foundry VTT release for Outlaws of Alkenstar and said it was fantastic, so it seems like it's consistent good results and not just a one-off. Just started a campaign with 4 fellow forums posters of Outlaws of Alkenstar, and so far so good! After running a session of pf2e the things I thought I didn't like about pf2e are actually just the things the GM for the only pf2e game I have played in, for which I did not like that GM style.
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 03:45 |
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The group put up with one of it members (name: me) being an inveterate punster, so it was fun. Mostly because I have a garbage pit mind and anything can trigger a pun in my brain. Like when another character named Ezra missed an attack roll, and then I hit. I had to mention that it was "Good that I was Better than Ezra", (you have to be a certain age to recognize THAT reference)
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 03:55 |
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Was Quest for the Frozen Flame skipped on accident?
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 04:08 |
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Pinwiz11 posted:Was Quest for the Frozen Flame skipped on accident? Mainly me forgetting it exists!
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 04:13 |
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Here's a sample of PF2E combat I built off a reddit post using the sort of tactics and actions that you might expect to see, even at Level 1: The Party:
Round 2: The Hellknight is in dire straits, and attempting to stand will result in the Fighter getting an Attack of Opportunity Strike at full bonus, since Multiple Attack Penalty doesn't apply off-turn.
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 05:05 |
It's probably worth mentioning that there is a very very good but unofficial character builder at https://pathbuilder2e.com/. Most of the rules are in there for free, and for a one-time $5 payment you can unlock some extra goodies, like (IIRC) pets, common variant rules (like Free Archetype), and the ability to save to Google Drive. There is also an Android app, which also has a $5 upgrade to get the same features -- these two upgrades are considered separate products, though, and don't transfer from one platform to another.Jarvisi posted:Pathfinder also eliminates the lack of rules and guidance for GMs. Actually having rules for even the most obtuse ways of playing. You don't have to use these if you don't want to, but they're there for anyone who wants actual rules for stuff that dnd would just handwave and tell the GM to wing it. For the most part I agree with this, and in particular, encounters are fairly easy to balance. A "severe" encounter is going to feel pretty drat scary for your party, but they will survive unless they get particularly unlucky or do something particularly dumb. However, there are occasionally rules that feel like they are "missing" to me. For example, I am currently the GM for an Abomination Vaults game, and one of my players loves to listen at the doors for whatever is in the next room. This feels like this should be such a common activity that there should be explicit rules for it, but it's kind of nuanced to follow by rules as written and give meaningful direction to the player. The players are exploring, so it feels like this should be an exploration activity. The two best options seem to be the Scout activity, which just gives a flat +1 to initiative (and honestly feels kind of awkward to explain in indoor settings), or the Search activity, which seems more focused on finding objects than creatures. All of this is even more complicated if a player says something like "I sneak over to the door and listen" -- then it feels like maybe they should be using the Avoid Notice activity as well. I think how I will rule this next time is to ignore the exploration rules for this, and give them a Perception check (against the enemy's stealth DC if they are hiding, otherwise against some flat number that seems appropriate). If they detect something in the other room, immediately have them roll initiative, and have the enemy potentially react to the player's presence. The detected enemies would all be hidden to the player, meaning the players know what space the enemies are in ahead of time. If someone was actively scouting before the door check (instead of doing the other exploration activities), give everyone a +1 to the initiative roll. That said, I am very open to suggestions here.
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 07:14 |
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nice OP & big knowledge post Toshimo
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 13:55 |
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VikingofRock posted:However, there are occasionally rules that feel like they are "missing" to me. For example, I am currently the GM for an Abomination Vaults game, and one of my players loves to listen at the doors for whatever is in the next room. This feels like this should be such a common activity that there should be explicit rules for it, but it's kind of nuanced to follow by rules as written and give meaningful direction to the player. The players are exploring, so it feels like this should be an exploration activity. The two best options seem to be the Scout activity, which just gives a flat +1 to initiative (and honestly feels kind of awkward to explain in indoor settings), or the Search activity, which seems more focused on finding objects than creatures. All of this is even more complicated if a player says something like "I sneak over to the door and listen" -- then it feels like maybe they should be using the Avoid Notice activity as well. Overall, I think your idea for the future ruling is great. Exploration Mode is often about matching the activity as best you can, but being willing to improvise for anything not foreseen. If enemy creatures were on the other side, I would also do a Perception check to be able to hear through the door (assuming no keyhole and a possible penalty for door material/thickness) and if they succeeded I’d also use it for their initiative but with +1 for them and everyone else for Scout, borrowing somewhat from the Avoid Notice rules. With the door closed the party is automatically hidden, if not completely undetected. If unsuccessful, I’d keep both sides undetected for each other and wouldn’t roll initiative until something more avert happened If they wanted to open the door to peek instead of listening, then I’d give them the stealth roll for Avoid Notice, but not the Scout bonus. Initiative would be called for everyone else while the Avoid Notice player would use that Steath roll for initiative. If the player successfully avoided notice against the enemy Perception DCs then the reward there would be that all of the party is in initiative, undetected, and aware while the enemies are in initiative, detected, and still minding their own business.
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 17:37 |
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VikingofRock posted:However, there are occasionally rules that feel like they are "missing" to me. For example, I am currently the GM for an Abomination Vaults game, and one of my players loves to listen at the doors for whatever is in the next room. Has your player purchased one of these yet?
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 18:49 |
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Pathfinder bundle just dropped
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 19:14 |
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Are these watermarked pdfs that are compatible with the Foundry pdf module? I was thinking of running strength of thousands sometime and this interests me greatly. edit: They are, drat. Thank you for the link this is wonderful. KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Aug 18, 2022 |
# ? Aug 18, 2022 19:20 |
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This is ludicrous value for anyone considering getting into 2e.
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 19:49 |
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KPC_Mammon posted:Are these watermarked pdfs that are compatible with the Foundry pdf module? I was thinking of running strength of thousands sometime and this interests me greatly. The link says it's through paizo so you can use it with foundry freely. This is pretty insane value!
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 21:19 |
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Jarvisi posted:Strength of Thousands One quick clarification here: Strength of Thousands actually gives you a free archetype, which you can only use to multiclass into Druid or Wizard. I mention this only because the Free Archetype alternate rule is pretty much an objective improvement over the base game because it gives characters a much broader set of abilities without really making them meaningfully stronger. (If you combine Fighter and Barbarian your raw numbers get a bit too big for the system, but otherwise it's perfectly fine.) Whether you let people pick freely or you take Strength of Thousands' approach and give your players a limited list of thematic options, you really have nothing to lose from using these rules.
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# ? Aug 18, 2022 21:59 |
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The Free Archetype rule is just straight-up great. Once I used it in one game I've used it in every game since. It adds so much versatility and flavor to a character without unbalancing anything.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 01:24 |
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blastron posted:The Free Archetype rule is just straight-up great. Once I used it in one game I've used it in every game since. It adds so much versatility and flavor to a character without unbalancing anything. I attempted to implement it but all my players are cheap and refuse to pay for path builder.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 03:14 |
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Jarvisi posted:I attempted to implement it but all my players are cheap and refuse to pay for path builder. You don't need Pathbuilder to use it, though? Surely you can keep track of "free Archetype feat at lvl2 and every even level after that" without it in whatever you use to actually run the game? (Foundry! Roll20! Google Docs! Actual paper sheets!)
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 10:14 |
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Foundry does it all for you, as soon as you level up it'll add the appropriate spots on your feats tab to drop in whatever you need.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 13:04 |
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I am a newbie to Pathfinder 2e but it seems to me that (if you're doing stuff online) just using the Foundry module is easier anyway and lets you do Free Archetype for free. I gave the Foundry module a shot today and was serious impressed by how much is included. They put in for free basically all the the AP-specific monster stats, for example.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 13:38 |
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bewilderment posted:I am a newbie to Pathfinder 2e but it seems to me that (if you're doing stuff online) just using the Foundry module is easier anyway and lets you do Free Archetype for free. One thing is the bestiary doesn't have token art but if you buy one of the partnered AP modules for Foundry that will have token art
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 14:14 |
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The Slack Lagoon posted:One thing is the bestiary doesn't have token art but if you buy one of the partnered AP modules for Foundry that will have token art I believe the foundry folks are looking to have officially supported art at some point too. I want to say they said it on their discord server or on a stream at some point.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 14:19 |
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Gwaihir posted:Foundry does it all for you, as soon as you level up it'll add the appropriate spots on your feats tab to drop in whatever you need. Oh oops. I was just dragging all the free archetype stuff to bonus feats.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 14:23 |
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ShallNoiseUpon posted:I believe the foundry folks are looking to have officially supported art at some point too. I want to say they said it on their discord server or on a stream at some point. Yeah they have announced it for "later this year" - it will include Bestiary 1,2,3 and blanks to make your own. And they have a nice 3d look
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 15:12 |
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The thing where the art goes over the token border is so sick, they did it for all of the Iconics in Foundry and it looks really great
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 15:15 |
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ShallNoiseUpon posted:The thing where the art goes over the token border is so sick, they did it for all of the Iconics in Foundry and it looks really great Agreed I like it.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 15:49 |
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Honestly one of the things that draws me to swapping over the 5e game I'm running to pf2e is how accessible Pazio makes the system and integration into Foundry and support for that. I ran some paid content from roll20 for 5e but the maps were super basic.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 15:55 |
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Toshimo posted:Here's the "PF2 intro for 5e players" I posted last thread: Has anyone got something like this for PF1 players? I did try building a character for PF2 and I couldn't get it to do what I wanted.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 20:59 |
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That Solar token owns.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 21:04 |
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Hunter Noventa posted:Has anyone got something like this for PF1 players? I did try building a character for PF2 and I couldn't get it to do what I wanted. I never played PF2, but if you explain what you're looking to build (less in a "Here's my PF1 build" and more a "Here's the role and style of what I want"), I'd be glad to take a look.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 21:06 |
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Toshimo posted:I never played PF2, but if you explain what you're looking to build (less in a "Here's my PF1 build" and more a "Here's the role and style of what I want"), I'd be glad to take a look. Ah not a huge deal. I was trying to make a weapon-using monk and it seemed to really discourage that. I'm really more interested int he difference in gameplay overall. My current group is doing Starfinder which is definitely halfway between the two.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 22:00 |
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Hunter Noventa posted:Ah not a huge deal. I was trying to make a weapon-using monk and it seemed to really discourage that. Weapon using monks don't have to waste actions going into stances and have access to a wide range of interesting keywords on their attacks. I think they'd be a lot of fun to play in 2e. You aren't competing with constantly escalating unarmed damage dice like in 1st edition, as an added bonus.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 22:07 |
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Hunter Noventa posted:Ah not a huge deal. I was trying to make a weapon-using monk and it seemed to really discourage that. Look at the Monastic Weaponry feat. It doesn't let you use a weapon with stance-provided unarmed attacks, but there are some stances specifically designed around weapon use, like Peafowl Stance or Whirling Blade Stance.
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# ? Aug 19, 2022 22:09 |
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# ? May 16, 2024 18:33 |
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Hunter Noventa posted:Ah not a huge deal. I was trying to make a weapon-using monk and it seemed to really discourage that. Look into the Monastic Weaponry feat and Peafowl Stance at low levels. At high levels, Whirling Blade Stance absolutely rules. Chevy Slyme fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Aug 19, 2022 |
# ? Aug 19, 2022 22:10 |