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2-page resume doesn't sound horrible if you have career exp, started your own business, and now recently grad school. Just as an aside, 2 pages doesn't necessarily mean you are going for high level jobs. My resume as an engineer was 1 page, as a front line manager it was 2 because I called out both manager and engineer experience, and now as a director it's back to 1 as the engineer stuff is now a single line. So use 2 pages if you have the right story for 2 pages. But make sure all the important stuff is on the first page regardless. The 2nd page is more for the interview to be able to give the interviewers jumping off points.
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Aug 15, 2022 17:27
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your relevant story should fit on one page so make it do sodpkg chopra posted:Thanks for the clarification. She's doing an M.A. (I know) but focused on brand management from the business perspective, and her target industry is fashion, so in theory her school and the program have enough name ID to overcome the lack of a proper MBA (let's loving hope). We're past my expertise here but I would be disinclined to trust the career services of this institution since I doubt they're geared towards placing mid-level managers at multinationals. Does the school have a legit MBA program? If so just go bother them. Make sure any resume workshop is geared towards grad students seeking corp jobs. If she wants a management role play up those team lead roles big time. Probably a good idea to have a management resume and an IC resume as she may not be able to get a management job right out of school.
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Aug 15, 2022 17:41
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:your relevant story should fit on one page so make it do so Makes sense. No, the school doesn't have an MBA program and I 100% got the same feeling, that they only knew how to deal with jobs that require a visual portfolio and where the resume is kind of an afterthought. Glad to know that the 2-sheet CV isn't a dealbreaker. This is all great feedback. I'm gonna get a new version of her resume done and hopefully share it with you guys to see what you think. Thanks!
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Aug 15, 2022 18:07
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dpkg chopra posted:I feel like that's not special enough for to gamble on a hiring manager being willing to look at more than one sheet? Are there billions of openings in the field that she is applying? If so, I would prioritize information gathering at first and avoid getting into premature optimization. Try sending out 2 pagers for a month and see what the response rate is. If it doesn't seem good, then try the one pager.
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Aug 15, 2022 20:32
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I spent about 10 months on a huge, very impactful (software) project. I did the exploratory work, design, documentation, most of the technical work, was primarily responsible for stakeholder buy-in, etc. Which format is the best way to list some of the details on a resume?code:
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Aug 17, 2022 21:06
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Well, got hosed by the independent recruiter after all. Offer came back $10k below the range she provided and the offer only came up $1500 after pushback, lol.
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Aug 17, 2022 22:51
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holefoods posted:Well, got hosed by the independent recruiter after all. Offer came back $10k below the range she provided and the offer only came up $1500 after pushback, lol. CarForumPoster posted:You will have found the first useful 3rd party recruiter ITT if you get that job lol Still 0-159 for those 3rd party cold outreaches. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 02:52
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Erwin posted:I spent about 10 months on a huge, very impactful (software) project. I did the exploratory work, design, documentation, most of the technical work, was primarily responsible for stakeholder buy-in, etc. Which format is the best way to list some of the details on a resume? Doesn't matter as long as it is scanable and consistent. That description is meh. It wouldn't really stick out from the 50 other applicant making similar claims. You should add some numbers to it to describe just how business critical it was and how well you performed. If you were the program manager and its a big project where you had to manage multiple people, were you tracking CPI/SPI? Were they close to 1.0? How much money did it save? What was your budget for this project? etc.
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Aug 18, 2022 02:57
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CarForumPoster posted:You will have found the first useful 3rd party recruiter ITT if you get that job lol The candidate/3rd party recruiter pairings that are beneficial do exist, but yes, recruiters almost universally suck
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Aug 18, 2022 05:10
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CarForumPoster posted:Doesn't matter as long as it is scanable and consistent. That description is meh. It wouldn't really stick out from the 50 other applicant making similar claims. You should add some numbers to it to describe just how business critical it was and how well you performed. If you were the program manager and its a big project where you had to manage multiple people, were you tracking CPI/SPI? Were they close to 1.0? How much money did it save? What was your budget for this project? etc. Thanks, I will add some numbers and supporting data, however I think I was unclear. The main question I have is whether a bullet list with sub-bullets is okay on a resume, or should I make one long bullet that covers all the points I want to hit? I can't figure out how to include the points in top-level bullets without repeating myself since they all refer to the same project.
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Aug 18, 2022 14:45
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Bullet and sub bullet is fine, but if you're doing that chances are you are getting overly wordy. CFP is trying to steer you into condensing it. But there's nothing verboten about sub-bullets.
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Aug 18, 2022 15:05
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Erwin posted:I spent about 10 months on a huge, very impactful (software) project. I did the exploratory work, design, documentation, most of the technical work, was primarily responsible for stakeholder buy-in, etc. Which format is the best way to list some of the details on a resume? I'm really hoping this is not the final wording. I think it's fine to break it down into smaller bullet points. I might combine a couple of the smaller bullet points. 1) Migrated business critical system from old design to new design a) Focused on automation and scalability using (insert software principles/code) b) Overcame objections to change by making a strong business case, providing thorough design details, and preparing live demos of the migration process, leading to a successful launch. c) (any numbers you have supporting a successful launch)
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Aug 18, 2022 15:11
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Erwin posted:Thanks, I will add some numbers and supporting data, however I think I was unclear. The main question I have is whether a bullet list with sub-bullets is okay on a resume, or should I make one long bullet that covers all the points I want to hit? I can't figure out how to include the points in top-level bullets without repeating myself since they all refer to the same project. Lockback posted:Bullet and sub bullet is fine, but if you're doing that chances are you are getting overly wordy. CFP is trying to steer you into condensing it. But there's nothing verboten about sub-bullets. ^^ Also:
On describing your impact as business critical a thought: I worked a big defense co program where a "small" impact was $1M or 2 weeks of delivery schedule of one aircraft. Front line managers made weekly notes where managers write atta boys. Atta boys below small should never make it above director. (manager->director/chief engineer->Program VP) Almost every person on that program, myself included at the time, would list accomplishments that were below small on their resume and on their yearly reviews. So there may be a system that has a lot of users, but unless that system migration created $1M in value or saves $1M or saved late delivery of an aircraft, it doesn't even make it through the director's weekly notes on one program. Something small at the program VP level will NEVER make it to corporate. Meanwhile at my tiny business now, if someone created something that added or saved $50K/yr in value that'd be the start of the small threshold. My point being: Know your audience. Talking big about the criticality of a low business value change really shoves you in that Engineer 1/2 category of self awareness. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 15:28
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blackmet posted:I'm really hoping this is not the final wording. Lockback posted:Bullet and sub bullet is fine, but if you're doing that chances are you are getting overly wordy. CFP is trying to steer you into condensing it. But there's nothing verboten about sub-bullets. Understood, thank you! I'll see if I can be less wordy and still get my points across.
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Aug 18, 2022 15:41
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I mentioned a few days ago that my wife has been a marketing/brand manager at LATAM subsidiaries of multinationals most of her life, quit to start her own business, got basically killed by the pandemic, and went back to grad school in the US. This is the latest version of her CV which I've helped her out on. There is still a lot of work I'd do on it, but we had to rush something out due to having to apply to a job opening that was closing literally yesterday where we knew someone in HR who could talk to the right people. I personally don't like the section on her own business, because it feels really small compared to everything else, but on the other hand, it was a small business where the whole point was that she could do it on her own. Any general thoughts or comments are welcome. Thanks!  
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Aug 18, 2022 16:42
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dpkg chopra posted:Any general thoughts or comments are welcome. Thanks! Same warning as always: Not HR, not a hiring manager, I've just read a bunch for friends and to expand a team of software devs. If anyone here contradicts me, go with what they say. The third bullet point from the bottom starts with an adverb instead of a verb. Just make it "Implemented" for consistency. For the CEO position, I don't know what Lead Conversion is (turning Lead into Gold I assume  ) but it sounds impressive, so maybe Lead Conversion and the following numbers etc should their own bullet point, and not as a sidecar on "Has Used Mailchip before" which is inarguably less impressive and less unique. I mean, unless there are marketing people out there that have never used CRM before and that's actually a meaningful skill in this industry? Could it get down to one page? Maybe trim out some of the bullet points for the work from > 5 years ago to make it just the most critical, impressive points. I think if you knock off 5 bullet points or so you might be able to get a one-page. Also, I don't believe non-profit work is normally included on US resumes, particularly those that could expose this person's group membership that might make an over-hesitant HR drone skittish to avoid a discrimination suit, but your mileage may vary. edit: v v v v Seems obvious when you put it like that 
Magnetic North fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Aug 18, 2022 |
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Aug 18, 2022 18:25
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Lead Conversion is the process of turning a lead on a sale into a closed sale. It's a real good thing and definitely needs to stand alone.
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Aug 18, 2022 19:04
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Thanks for the tips. I could've sworn that I'd fixed that bullet to start with an action verb! We could probably get it down to one page, but in this case we had explicit information that 2-page was ok from someone at the company who reviews resumes so we went for it. I'd definitely like to make the whole thing neater and more reader-friendly, however. Hopefully someone can clarify about the non-profit/org work. I personally feel like it's a big asset for her since plus size issues are big deal in most consumer-facing industries, but I can probably rewrite it more neutral wording.
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Aug 18, 2022 20:40
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dpkg chopra posted:I mentioned a few days ago that my wife has been a marketing/brand manager at LATAM subsidiaries of multinationals most of her life, quit to start her own business, got basically killed by the pandemic, and went back to grad school in the US. IMO this isn't very good given that I'd expect a marketing person to be pretty excellent at both copywriting and marking themselves. The actual writing quality is mediocre and it seems like she doesn't know how to measure marketing performance well. For her business: Overall the numbers are meaningless. I get no sense of her ability to grow a project she is super passionate about and measure the success of it. How's she going to do working for us? It is very important to talk about numbers, but talking about the wrong numbers makes you seem incompetent. The right numbers for an online retail clothing store, and for a resume focused on the marketing aspects of it are probably something like: total customer numbers, revenue, revenue CMGR, gross margins, CAC:LTV, average order value, customer retention. Since its a marketing resume, I'd probably include a little more about optimizing CAC, funnels, strategy or something to that extent. Talks about margins...gross margin? net margin? Assuming gross but it's unclear. Why talk about "competitive prices" for a luxury brand? First bullet in this burys the lead. I think the stats are suppose to be talking about the before and after increases of using those marketing tools, but the way its written that's not clear. "Attained 60% lead generation" doesn't mean anything. 80% repeat purchases seems like bullshit. You had 80% of customers coming back? Or is it that you had 5% of customer come back, started using mail chimp and it rose to 9%, an 80% increase? 20% conversions seems like bullshit...20% of people who landed on the website purchased something? 20% who added to cart? The first real, useful number to understand what sort of scale/impact she has worked at is almost halfway down the front page. I'd assume this person isn't great at their job. Hiring marketing people is extremely hard though. There's far more people "getting the word out" rather than building the human side of processes that lead to a good CAC:LTV and good margins.
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Aug 19, 2022 00:17
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So I’ve heard that Cover Letters are a waste of time that no one reads and that they are super helpful in getting the initial interview. Where does the goon wisdom come down?
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Aug 19, 2022 01:43
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Useless unless specifically requested
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Aug 19, 2022 02:31
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CarForumPoster posted:IMO this isn't very good given that I'd expect a marketing person to be pretty excellent at both copywriting and marking themselves. Hey, thanks for the feedback. Can't say I'm surprised. I'm gonna sit down with her and try to get her to work on the specifics and numbers on each item and try to get them into something more presentable. The point about stats needing to be more specific and benchmarked against something is 100% right. FWIW, the position she was applying was much more about market research and analysis, which is what she actually worked at the MNCs before she started her business, so we focused more on those bullets given the rush. But reading that I 100% think we need to rework her bullet points and focus them more on the tools and skills she used to determine her market size and target, and marketing approach, and not so much on her numbers which are inevitably going to be weak and bullshitty.
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Aug 19, 2022 02:46
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navyjack posted:So I’ve heard that Cover Letters are a waste of time that no one reads and that they are super helpful in getting the interview. They’re worthless for application tracking systems and most corporate jobs because the hiring manager never gets to see them. They’re very valuable when the hiring manager does get to see it. Particularly if your resume isn’t perfect for the job. If you’re truly dedicated to applying for jobs, write a targeted cover letter for each job application. If you’re just blind firing resumes into corporate ATSs, don’t worry about it. Also, my perspective is as a STEM middle manager in the manufacturing industry. It’s highly variable between industries and levels. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 07:55
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In my industry (consulting) cover letters are required, so I'm biased towards writing them. Here's my thought process: 1) If the job doesn't mention a cover letter and it's through an automated online system, don't bother. 2) If the job mentions a cover letter and it does not say that the cover letter is optional, write one. 3) If the job mentions a cover letter and says it is optional, write one if you are really interested in the opportunity - otherwise don't bother. 4) If you know that the industry norm is cover letters, write one anyway. If you bother writing a cover letter make sure it is actually tailored to the job and performs tasks that are supplemental to your resume. Also make sure it is well-written and edited.
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Aug 19, 2022 13:32
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:In my industry (consulting) cover letters are required, so I'm biased towards writing them. Here's my thought process: Dik Hz posted:Yes. +1 to these, bolded the parts I strongly agree with Cover letters are optional for all my postings, I only check them if a resume is borderline, has gaps of employment, or is good. Cover letter is great for giving context, and theres definitely been times where a cover letter clarified that a person wasn't fired every 12 months, their husband is primary breadwinner and their job requires frequent relocation. My job posting is remote so that won't be an issue. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 14:01
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:In my industry (consulting) cover letters are required, so I'm biased towards writing them. Here's my thought process: This is perfectly put. For example, I read cover letters but if it's just a generic restating of resume points then it does nothing. But if you take the time to talk about something interesting in our tech stack or industry or whatever great! That helps! I don't expect people to do that for every application but the ones you really want to stand out or you think its a good fit a CUSTOMIZED cover letter can help. I read cover letters after resumes though, so if the resume is a no-go I won't read the cover letter. I would expect most people would do that.
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Aug 19, 2022 15:51
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Is no resume-writers still the thread’s advice? I have someone who desperately needs to get out of their job but is too swamped to put in the effort (high level acctg), and honestly their resume is old and a novel, so would need to be dynamited and rebuilt. I realize they will have to be involved some, but trying to minimize that and get this show on the road.
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Aug 24, 2022 03:45
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:Is no resume-writers still the thread’s advice? I have someone who desperately needs to get out of their job but is too swamped to put in the effort (high level acctg), and honestly their resume is old and a novel, so would need to be dynamited and rebuilt. I realize they will have to be involved some, but trying to minimize that and get this show on the road. If they're not going to build a quality resume otherwise, do it. They need to be invested in their resume and if this helps them get there, I'd pull the trigger rather than just do nothing. Like some people can own a home gym but will never work out unless they hire a trainer, so do what works for you(r friend)
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Aug 26, 2022 01:46
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There is supposedly a negotiation thread but I can’t find it. If anyone here wants to chime in: I may be getting an offer letter for an entry-level cyber security SOC analyst job tomorrow (I hope). My guy on the inside says he started at a little over 62k. Average salary on Glassdoor comes in closer to 75K. How do I ask for 65K? Do I point out that I’m taking a pay cut (I’m switching industries), do I say that with my previous management experience I’m an easy promote and retain? Do I just say “uh, how about 65 instead of 60?” and give no reason?
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Aug 26, 2022 02:24
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navyjack posted:There is supposedly a negotiation thread but I can’t find it. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3768531&pagenumber=216#lastpost Let them name a number first if you can, since you seem unclear on what market is. If they ask you say "I am looking for market rate". If they offer 62 (or if they try to do the same thing) I'd suggest countering at something like 70k or even 75k. They won't drop you from consideration for asking for that little over an offer. They may come back that they start everyone at 62k. Then it's up to you to decide if it's worthwhile or not. You don't need to give reasons for this. Don't get into a justification game. The salary you are asking for is justified by the fact that they think you can do the job.
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Aug 26, 2022 02:29
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I Love You! posted:If they're not going to build a quality resume otherwise, do it. They need to be invested in their resume and if this helps them get there, I'd pull the trigger rather than just do nothing. Like some people can own a home gym but will never work out unless they hire a trainer, so do what works for you(r friend) Thanks - it’s actually not me, not even a clever dodge. I’ll start searching around.
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Aug 26, 2022 02:57
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Resume question: I work for a company that develops products for some Big Name Customers. Is is appropriate to namedrop them and the nature of my work on my resume, assuming there's been a public announcement (e.g., press release) regarding such development?
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Aug 26, 2022 03:57
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Lockback posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3768531&pagenumber=216#lastpost Thanks for advice. I took to negotiation thread also to get additional feedback.
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Aug 26, 2022 03:58
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PRADA SLUT posted:Resume question: Depends on how you do it, and to some extent your role in working on that project/customer. Certainly if you’re an account manager and they’re coming with you that’s something you should bring up somewhere.
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Aug 26, 2022 04:00
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CarForumPoster posted:Depends on how you do it, and to some extent your role in working on that project/customer. Certainly if you’re an account manager and they’re coming with you that’s something you should bring up somewhere. I'd call it direct technical work. Was thinking of something like "developed technical thing X using skill Y..." and variations thereof for line items, and then dropping a line at the bottom like "delivered products for company A, B, C.."
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Aug 26, 2022 04:51
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PRADA SLUT posted:Resume question:
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Aug 26, 2022 11:37
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If I applied for a job, did an interview, never heard back, then see the same/similar job posted several months later, is it worth applying again or can I assume I bombed so hard they didn't even consider me worth sending a rejection email?
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Sep 6, 2022 04:35
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Asproigerosis posted:If I applied for a job, did an interview, never heard back, then see the same/similar job posted several months later, is it worth applying again or can I assume I bombed so hard they didn't even consider me worth sending a rejection email? I applied for the job I’m starting at in a couple weeks FIVE times over the past year.
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Sep 6, 2022 04:46
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Asproigerosis posted:If I applied for a job, did an interview, never heard back, then see the same/similar job posted several months later, is it worth applying again or can I assume I bombed so hard they didn't even consider me worth sending a rejection email?
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Sep 6, 2022 09:55
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Asproigerosis posted:If I applied for a job, did an interview, never heard back, then see the same/similar job posted several months later, is it worth applying again or can I assume I bombed so hard they didn't even consider me worth sending a rejection email? You should definitely apply again. If its a large company they reuse job req descriptions all the time. I applied to like 5 jobs simultaneously at big defense co, three were titled Senior Systems Engineer at Same City, State, and I ended up at one of them.
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Sep 6, 2022 13:25
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