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Loucks posted:An e-assist velomobile can do highway speeds, it’s just not a great idea to tangle with the land barges that everyone drives around at top speed while staring at their phones. I wouldn’t feel comfortable driving this around real cars at high speeds either. This is just a wider version of a velo with more batteries shoved in and no muscle power. Yeah, it’s beefed up a little and has a slightly higher top end, but that thing is far closer to a faired bicycle than you seem to realize. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here, in what world is the Aptera closer to an e-bike than an electric car?  It's using the same in-wheel motors as other EVs it just has one less wheel and is a different body shape. The tent is a stupid marketing thing that has nothing to do with the vehicle. You guys really have a boner for a future where everyone drives the same overloaded metal boxes we do now but loaded with batteries? I'm 110% pro-ebike / escooter / war on cars, and this car seems completely in line with that philosophy. We need smaller and more efficient vehicles on the road, that won't turn kids using the crosswalk into mashed potatoes. An e-assist velomobile would have the same utility? I'm guessing you haven't looked at the specs or the video at all because an EV that can drive like a normal car for 1000 miles on a charge and carry a passenger + cargo sure doesn't seem like a similar use case to me. I just don't understand the hate at all.
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Aug 19, 2022 00:50
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The Aptera looks small in pictures but it's taller and wider than a Model S, has the same cargo space, and a 0-60 of 3.5 seconds on the all wheel version. I wouldn't call that a wider velomobile with no power. But all of that is moot until they produce a production model.
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Aug 19, 2022 01:24
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bird with big dick posted:even being at 25% SoC if you punch it in an M3P it will still haul the mail. That's the opposite of what I've seen with my friend's model s. It takes a huge hit to acceleration at low charge %.
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Aug 19, 2022 01:29
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My model 3 dual motor would get quite a bit slower at lower SOC. It went from fast to "adequate", there was even a noticeable difference between 80 and 50%. It makes perfect sense, the battery voltage drops as it discharges so there is less power available for the motors.
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Aug 19, 2022 01:51
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knox_harrington posted:That's the opposite of what I've seen with my friend's model s. It takes a huge hit to acceleration at low charge %. Is it an older one? The 3P and YP both do great at relatively low SoC as far as I'm concerned. E.g. 0-60 in 4.1 seconds with the SoC all the way down at 12%: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/acceleration-now-better-at-low-soc-2019-model-3p.228150/ Or this MYP running 12.5 in the 1/4 at 25% SoC: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/myp-soc-vs-performance-with-dragy.234557/
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Aug 19, 2022 02:26
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Indiana_Krom posted:Does the MachE actually have a cooling issue though? From what I've read it sucks past ~60 MPH no matter what, even on the first pull. That isn't a thermal issue, a 70+ kWh battery simply does not overheat that quickly. As you've pointed out it's not just cooling since they limit the power even when the battery is cool even on the first pull, but I think it all relates back to Ford being scared of battery degradation which is heavily tied into their lackluster cooling i.e. the kind of cooling you'd put in a car that you were designing to be a Ford E-Scape not an electric Mustang. To me the question is how much is Ford being too chicken about their batteries and Tesla going in the exact opposite direction and being perhaps too cavalier about it.
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Aug 19, 2022 02:32
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Nfcknblvbl posted:"Kick rear end for the lord" is one of his sayings, yeah. Peter Jackson’s Braindead
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Aug 19, 2022 02:42
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Nfcknblvbl posted:"Kick rear end for the lord" is one of his sayings, yeah. That's a line from the classic Peter Jackson movie Brain-dead/Dead Alive. A movie which everyone should see for the Kung Fu priest in addition to the lawnmower zombie scene.
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Aug 19, 2022 02:43
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marshmonkey posted:You guys really have a boner for a future where everyone drives the same overloaded metal boxes we do now but loaded with batteries? I'm 110% pro-ebike / escooter / war on cars, and this car seems completely in line with that philosophy. We need smaller and more efficient vehicles on the road, that won't turn kids using the crosswalk into mashed potatoes. Just make the cars fly and shoot the children through pneumatic tubes, both are about as plausible as a US where everyone is driving something like an Aptera. In the meantime my question is how much of a mashed potato the occupants of an Aptera become when hit by something like a Camry, let alone something like an F250 pulling a horse trailer.
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Aug 19, 2022 02:44
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bird with big dick posted:Is it an older one? On current software the 3P/YP should still be pushing close to 350 kW practically down to the single digits SoC. They are at their best above about 70%, but they don't actually get that slow till you are practically scraping the bottom. Remember how originally the 2021 model years with the heat pump got severely power limited even on the highway because the heat pump froze the battery? That got fixed in an OTA update and now they have much more consistent power delivery across SoCs even in cold weather. I remember seeing a video where someone did a dyno test on a 2021 3P and compared it to an older test from a 2019 3P and said the 2021 had similar peak power but delivered in a slightly smoother/better curve and my thought was they probably should have retested the 2019 with up to date software at the same time, I bet it got the same stretched out curve as the 2021 in a software update.
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Aug 19, 2022 02:52
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Maybe it is a regional thing and granted, it looks like Ford kind of hosed up with the GT-P, but the idea that the Mustang is viewed by most consumers as some sort of legendary muscle car whose history must be protected by Ford seems far less common than the view that it is a rental that a 50 year old mother gets to toot around Florida for the weekend. Ford wanted to sell something fun looking to upper-middle class, middle aged homeowners, which is basically the market for a $50k crossover that only gets to take full advantage of the tax credit with a 6 figure household income, the GT-P is basically an appearance package for a middle-manager to show off to a coworker on a highway ramp and then go pick up the kids from school in. By all accounts Ford has absolutely blown through its sales expectations, the Mustang brand is now self-described cool moms that need room for grocery runs instead of an RX350, it's OK. Three Olives fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 02:59
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bird with big dick posted:Just make the cars fly and shoot the children through pneumatic tubes, both are about as plausible as a US where everyone is driving something like an Aptera. Yeah, I think the Aptera is cool and I hope it is successful, but one of my big questions about them is how would it handle collisions. The shape of cars has a lot to do with crash worthiness over aesthetics, the frunk in a Tesla is as much about crumple zones as it is about additional storage.
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Aug 19, 2022 03:01
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bird with big dick posted:Just make the cars fly and shoot the children through pneumatic tubes, both are about as plausible as a US where everyone is driving something like an Aptera. I used to ride motorcycles, I’ll take something like the Aptera any day. There are a wide swath of vehicles (and pedestrians and cyclists) on the road today that aren’t going to win a collision with an F250.
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Aug 19, 2022 03:02
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Indiana_Krom posted:Yeah, I think the Aptera is cool and I hope it is successful, but one of my big questions about them is how would it handle collisions. The shape of cars has a lot to do with crash worthiness over aesthetics, the frunk in a Tesla is as much about crumple zones as it is about additional storage. From their website: quote:We are using Carbon, Glass, and Kevlar fibers in our structural body parts. quote:Aptera has significant safety advantages over other vehicles! We are designing to meet or exceed all applicable federal motor vehicle safety standards. We will show our testing as we get closer to our start of production, but we will not know Aptera’s actual rating until we pass a production vehicle through the full safety tests. Like who knows, until they crash it for real a bunch of times. But there does exist the safety of other people too, not just the people inside the car.
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Aug 19, 2022 03:09
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marshmonkey posted:From their website: I am absolutely on board with you, i just don’t think this kind of vehicle will ever have a commercial success in the land of sold out Ford Lightnings for 3 years or whatever it is.
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Aug 19, 2022 04:13
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Russian Bear posted:I am absolutely on board with you, i just don’t think this kind of vehicle will ever have a commercial success in the land of sold out Ford Lightnings for 3 years or whatever it is. Or when the same ~$26k before rebates price gets you a Bolt EV without all of the compromises of the minimalist form factor.
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Aug 19, 2022 04:24
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Big advances in pedestrian safety in the near term are going to be made by Automatic Emergency Braking and hopefully better pedestrian infrastructure, not by the proliferation of 1800 pound EVs, as nice as it would be.
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Aug 19, 2022 04:26
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I don’t think I ever asserted it would be a top selling car or even popular. I think each one on the road, if it does enter production - would would be sparking a ton of discussion, which would be a positive thing.
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Aug 19, 2022 04:31
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A climate controlled two-seater with lots of locked storage that charges itself and has incredible range? I’ll stick with my 40mi-100mi range eBike or motorcycle with panniers and a helmet THANK YOU VERY MUCH Aptera!
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Aug 19, 2022 04:50
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There's so much bullshit on Aptera's claims about their product. 1600kms range? Extreme acceleration? Hand wavey claims about crash safety? Yeah nah, that aint going to do a quarter of that. quote:e: unless mods decree that this is an electric car and truck thread only for some reason Nope. Talk about e-bikes all ya'll want
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Aug 19, 2022 05:08
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eeenmachine posted:A climate controlled two-seater with lots of locked storage that charges itself and has incredible range? I’ll stick with my 40mi-100mi range eBike or motorcycle with panniers and a helmet THANK YOU VERY MUCH Aptera! 
trilobite terror fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 05:10
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marshmonkey posted:I put down a deposit on one of these, I’ve been watching them try to make this car for over a decade but I guess the tech is finally there to slot in and make a go of it: I… I actually love this. I’m getting a Bolt EV LT but the idea of getting something like this in a 600 mile model as a car for going on drives to LA or Portland is seriously appealing to me. I might put a deposit down on one and be a 2-car rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 19, 2022 05:45
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:There's so much bullshit on Aptera's claims about their product. 1600kms range? Extreme acceleration? Hand wavey claims about crash safety? Why do you assume it’s bullshit? If you know the amount of energy it takes to move the car a mile, the range is pretty easy to calculate depending on how much battery you have. The thing is featherweight and slippery as a fish, I believe it when they say it can do 10mi per kwh. *edit* I swear everyone just assumes this is a scam off the bat because it looks so wild marshmonkey fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 05:49
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marshmonkey posted:Why do you assume it’s bullshit? If you know the amount of energy it takes to move the car a mile, the range is pretty easy to calculate depending on how much battery you have. The thing is featherweight and slippery as a fish, I believe it when they say it can do 10mi per kwh. Can’t understand why the company that already went bankrupt once after touting their historically efficient vehicle that never came close to production any would draw skepticism for touting a historically efficient vehicle that doesn’t appear anywhere near production.
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Aug 19, 2022 05:55
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marshmonkey posted:Why do you assume it’s bullshit? Because they are making a bunch of claims that just do not stack up on a car that isn't even close to production made by a startup that failed before. A 1 ton car with a 100KwH battery and 1600kms range? Sure and I have a 12 inch dick Just believe me, my dick really is that big. No I'm not going to post proof.
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Aug 19, 2022 06:04
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marshmonkey posted:Why do you assume it’s bullshit? If you know the amount of energy it takes to move the car a mile, the range is pretty easy to calculate depending on how much battery you have. The thing is featherweight and slippery as a fish, I believe it when they say it can do 10mi per kwh. This is the car forum: everyone here is loving nuts.
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Aug 19, 2022 06:04
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:This is the car forum: everyone here is loving nuts. I can’t think of anything saner in the modern age of tech company bullshit than being skeptical of any company that claims it’s going to produce something revolutionary and inexpensive but no you can’t see it, it’s not ready, but totally will be
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Aug 19, 2022 06:19
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I think burning a ton of VC money while paying yourself a big salary and promising a product that will for real be out next year we promise, no really, just give us $100…. Is a great career choice nowadays.
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Aug 19, 2022 06:47
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bird with big dick posted:Is it an older one? No it's a 2020 model s. Acceleration was pretty sluggish at 30% charge. Not uncommon apparently. Maybe the battery was a bit cold. 
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Aug 19, 2022 06:56
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I am massively confused by the new EV tax credit and how it impacts my plans to maybe buy a Model 3 LR, or an Ioniq 6 if it comes out soon enough. Or maybe a Polestar idk.
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Aug 19, 2022 07:16
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:This is the car forum: everyone here is loving nuts. Automotive Insanity is probably the most well adjusted, sane and inhabited by relatively normal people who are mostly a bunch of Dads talking poo poo on the Internet of all the forums on SA. Wether that is good or says it all about SA is debateable
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Aug 19, 2022 07:56
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:I am massively confused by the new EV tax credit and how it impacts my plans to maybe buy a Model 3 LR, or an Ioniq 6 if it comes out soon enough. Or maybe a Polestar idk. Short answer: Assume few if any cars sold before 2024 will be eligible.
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Aug 19, 2022 10:03
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YOLOsubmarine posted:I can’t think of anything saner in the modern age of tech company bullshit than being skeptical of any company that claims it’s going to produce something revolutionary and inexpensive but no you can’t see it, it’s not ready, but totally will be But I don't really really see anything transparently bullshit with the Aptera. Light, aerodynamic car --> high efficiency. Safety could be absolutely top-notch (see e.g. Smart car). Obviously "never charge" thing could ever work in California or something, but at first glance it seems like it could work for a short commute. Not any more BS than the usual range claims everyone makes. Now whether or not they can actually build them in volume and at claimed prices, that's definitely somewhat questionable.
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Aug 19, 2022 10:25
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mobby_6kl posted:That's of course the correct approach. No. The smart car is really safe because it's heavy as gently caress for something its size because of a massive steel crash structure. Composites generally are very brittle and don't make for good crash structures by themselves. This thing isn't going to be any safer than a motorcycle, if it existed as a production vehicle, which it doesn't. The 3-wheel design is almost certainly to allow them to ignore NHTSA standards, as 3-wheelers fall under motorcycles, see that dumb open cockpit Polaris thing. Claims of EVs that you never have to charge because they have solar panels are bunk, plain and simple, we've been over that in this thread a few times. I am highly dubious of Aptera's efficiency claims. Also they claim that they're replacing radiators with micro-fluid channels in the skin of the car, I work in cutting-edge aerospace production where we do stuff like that, and I cannot over-emphasize how loving difficult that would be to pull off on a production basis. Also composites are absolute dogshit in terms of thermal conductivity and emissivity, so that'll work real great, especially when you're DCFCing. It's vaporware and a VC seeking scam. E: I just thought of an 1,800lb vehicle, over 800 lbs of which must be batteries (based on the energy density of Tesla's recent battery packs) getting plowed by an F-150, and LOL, at least it'd be a spectacular death with accompanying fireworks. To reiterate, if you think that 1000lbs of composites (or like 700 after wheels, motors and various other mechanical bits) are going to protect you from major injury in even a low-speed collision, you are an idiot. For comparison that's roughly half the weight of a Formula 1 car's chasis, and those are no-holds-barred chock full of exotic alloys and composites that cost over 10 million dollars a piece to make. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 11:05
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knox_harrington posted:No it's a 2020 model s. Acceleration was pretty sluggish at 30% charge. Yeah, the 2021+ model years got a software update that kept the battery warmer so the power delivery evened out. Bjørn Nyland did a youtube video retesting one with newer software in cold weather and it behaves just like the 2019 in that chart now.
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Aug 19, 2022 12:05
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Because they are making a bunch of claims that just do not stack up on a car that isn't even close to production made by a startup that failed before. A 1 ton car with a 100KwH battery and 1600kms range? Sure and I have a 12 inch dick Show me your Pole(star)
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Aug 19, 2022 12:42
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Three Olives posted:By all accounts Ford has absolutely blown through its sales expectations, the Mustang brand is now self-described cool moms that need room for grocery runs instead of an RX350, it's OK. This absolutely tracks as my middle aged sister in law was all in on her Mach e. Also, my history ks a bit fuzzy as it was before my time but wasn’t the mustang originally explicitly marketed to women?
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Aug 19, 2022 12:47
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I get the Aptera's appeal as a fun weird toy but most people are buying cars to take the kids to school and soccer practice, drive to work, and drive to the grocery store. I don't see much appetite other than as a very niche vehicle even assuming they meet targets, which I of course doubt. I also think it will do poorly in crash tests but I hope we get the chance to find out.
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Aug 19, 2022 13:46
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I also think it will do poorly in crash tests but I hope we get the chance to find out. It's likely going to be classified as a motorbike so it's going to be pretty much a composite coffin with the same safety results of a rusted out Piaggio Ape.
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Aug 19, 2022 13:57
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SlowBloke posted:It's likely going to be classified as a motorbike so it's going to be pretty much a composite coffin with the same safety results of a rusted out Piaggio Ape. this poo poo is so funny when the "innovation" is in large part "make it so you die in a crash" i'm sure that one of the traditional OEMs could also make a lightweight non-crashworthy EV. hell you could probably take 500-600 pounds out of the Bolt EUV if you didn't care about meeting crash standards. that would turn up the range fairly substantially.
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Aug 19, 2022 14:00
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