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Don’t worry about any of that stuff and just show him games one at a time. He doesn’t need to know the meta language or mechanics or anything beyond the rules of the game you’re showing him at the time. If you are actually worried about overwhelming new players the bigger threat is dumping too many games on them too quickly instead of letting them gain any sense of mastery of them.
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Aug 19, 2022 18:38
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You're overthinking this. Just use the vocabulary you'll find in the rules. Don't talk about Pandemic's [Victory Condition], just talk about finding all cures. Terminology is the least of your worries. Focus on a game that's fairly easy to understand and gives you the feeling you accomplished something even if you played poorly.
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Aug 19, 2022 18:43
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FirstAidKite posted:What are some mandatory foundational board game terminology that he should know? Like, obviously if he has never played a wargame before, talking about army points and templates is going to be confusing, just as it'd be confusing to try and explain a cooperative deckbuilder if he has never even heard of deckbuilding. I can't just say "we're going to play a cooperative area control game" if he still doesn't have a clue what area control games are, or what area control even means. I hate to be captain obvious but... Just explain what you do in the game you are about to play? "We work together in this one to beat the game, we're working as a team. We win by doing X, that means we have to do X,Y or Z depending what card we draw. You have an ability that it says on your character sheet, you can use that at any time." "On your turn you draw a tile, put a tile down anywhere it fits. The object is to have as many of your tiles down as possible". Then once you've had a few game nights and got an idea of what he likes and how heavy he's willing to go you can introduce terminology like "This is a deckbuilding game, like the one we played last time where you had to get treasure" or whatever. I think you might be overthinking it. Half the people I play boardgames with think still Roland Write is a person and assume Euro game just literally means it was made by a european company but if you say "This game is like combat yahtzee, you are using the dice to fight aliens" or whatever they get the gist.
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Aug 19, 2022 18:45
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Using very dry jargon like it's a uni course is also a good way to bore newcomers to the hobby before they even begin the game. Selling the game is just as important as teaching it because A) people don't understand the rules when they sleep through the explanation B) people always perform better when they're invested Start with the theme of the game, explain one thing at a time and don't lose yourself in minute details that might never come up in their first game. Ask them if they have questions. Let them manipulate the board. If you're explaining combat or whatever, you should draw cards, roll dice or give wound tokens. Better yet, make them do it themselves as a second example. It's a good way to check if they understood everything you just explained and it makes them more confident. Mixing up methods of teaching facilitates memorization and keeps people awake. There's a reason why most high school teachers don't just read a manual for 2 hours. Advice like "doing X is very important/useful" is usually welcome on the first turn but YMMV. Follow this link for what I think is a good way to explain a complex game. https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2141334/teaching-spirit-island Eraflure fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 19:04
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when i taught great western trail we did a few turns to get everyone round the loop to kansas once, i and the other person who'd played before talked through our thought process on our turns, stuff like that. then we reset everything and started for real. seemed to work pretty well.
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Aug 19, 2022 19:10
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jesus WEP posted:when i taught great western trail we did a few turns to get everyone round the loop to kansas once, i and the other person who'd played before talked through our thought process on our turns, stuff like that. then we reset everything and started for real. seemed to work pretty well. Yeah that's the best way to go if your players have the time/patience for it.
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Aug 19, 2022 19:15
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if you don’t begin every rules explanation by clarifying that this game is a point salad push your luck deckbuilder with Take That! mechanics then frankly you shouldn’t be in this hobby.
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Aug 19, 2022 19:16
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CitizenKeen posted:I keep buying, but I'm rounding out new experiences. MIND MGMT because I don't own a hidden movement game, Shikoku 1889 because I don't own an 18XX game, Stationfall because I've never seen a board game like it. I know it's not a revolutionary design but I cannot wait for Shikoku to be in my hands. Loved the 61/67 reprint even with its issues here and there. I've spoken with Josh before and he's a great guy who loves his 18xx's. He also said The Old Prince is his current GOAT for what it's worth...
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Aug 19, 2022 19:39
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Yeah, if you're trying to hook someone on gaming, wait until they signal their enthusiasm to start introducing too many concepts outside of individual games. Otherwise, look at the rules-teaching tips in the OP, stolen from the internet and the thread's experience to make it as good a teach as possible, because that is going to be the biggest hurdle to getting someone into the 'excited' phase of any new hobby, including board games.
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Aug 19, 2022 20:36
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Yeah I probably am overthinking things. I just don't want him to get overwhelmed by being the 1 person in a 3-5 person game night who is struggling and lost. I don't do very well with explaining rules.
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Aug 19, 2022 20:37
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FirstAidKite posted:Yeah I probably am overthinking things. I just don't want him to get overwhelmed by being the 1 person in a 3-5 person game night who is struggling and lost. I don't do very well with explaining rules. Most people don't. Send the group a link to a video or something beforehand (or a link to the rulebook if your group are dorks that would actually read it themselves like me). I'm (I think) above average in explaining rules, but I'm GREAT at understanding them, so I'll just go through a rulebook myself, then when someone else explains the gist of the game, I can be like "oh yeah, that makes sense now that the board is actually in front of me". In terms of jargon, just play games with him and see what sticks and what doesn't. If you play, say, Dominion, and he likes it, then you can be like "So that's called a Deck Builder - there are lots of them, most people think this one is the best one, but they've all got different themes and stuff".
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Aug 19, 2022 20:48
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FirstAidKite posted:
Nothing. Teach the specific game - either use a watch it played video or teach it yourself or whatever. The advice in the intro is very good here, I like the SU&SD approach where you introduce a game off the thematic hook and why you're going to have fun, not this is a deck builder lol. The advice here of making sure to let people get system mastery rather than spamming new games is good advice. You'd be better off playing TTR 3 times than playing three different games. Last advice is people are willing to do more of a rules lift if they really want to play that game for some reason (I. E theme appeals) so use that hook lol.
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Aug 19, 2022 21:49
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the only mandatory game terminology is the terminology of the game you are teaching/playing (esp. if the game refers to these terms in play on cards or w/e). also, generally, people will learn games with themes that excite them; just be familiar with the play and teach times. Many modern games take more time to explain than old games take to play, which can be a shock for the inexperienced
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Aug 19, 2022 22:21
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Always start with the flavour text from the first page of the rulebook. Bonus points if you read it in a really cheesy voice. Think: the start of Conan the Barbarian.
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Aug 19, 2022 22:42
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homullus posted:the only mandatory game terminology is the terminology of the game you are teaching/playing This. Don't use any terms which are not in the game you're playing. Using common terms or colloquiums which are not terms from the game can just be confusing. Most people here would understand tapping a card but in the game it might be active or rotate etc.
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Aug 20, 2022 00:13
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Tbh I'm mostly just afraid of overwhelming him with having to introduce different sided dice, talking about army points in skirmish wargames, or moving templates, character stats, target numbers, or things like what building a deck is, what meeples are, and what tokens are used for. He's so blank on what board games are that I just don't want to overwhelm him by asking him to learn about things like victory points, scoring, player turns and rounds, and how board games even work. I don't want him to just drop out because I pull out Calico and he sees hex tiles with different patterns and colors and different cats with different scoring rules, or if I pull out Super Skill Pinball 4-Cade, I don't want him to get overwhelmed by looking at the pinball table and having to learn about a lot of roll & write stuff without ever having been exposed to any game involving rolling or writing. According to him, he is a completely blank slate. I don't think that that is entirely true but he isn't volunteering any other info beyond playing Forbidden Desert once several years ago. A lot of my concerns are most likely for nothing but the last thing I want to do is to invite him for a game night and then have him walk away having had a terrible night.
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Aug 20, 2022 01:33
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I mean Forbidden Desert ain’t Candyland or anything so he’ll be totally fine with anything lighter. Alternately, stick to co-op and introduce complexity that way.
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Aug 20, 2022 02:02
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dishwasherlove posted:Always start with the flavour text from the first page of the rulebook. Bonus points if you read it in a really cheesy voice. Think: the start of Conan the Barbarian. I channel Neil Cicierega and always start the rules explanation with "Welcome to [game name]" in a low, breathy lisping voice. I did it once as a joke and it annoyed my spouse so of course I have done it every single time since. One thing I have found helpful when teaching games is to let the visuals and components work for you, rather than distract. The Spirit Island example script demonstrates this very well. I've taken many presentation skills classes for work stuff. Two principles that are always represented in those classes are to minimize text and to avoid visual clutter by building visuals gradually. Ever hear someone say they hate watching things with subtitles, because even if the actors are speaking their language they can't stop their eyes from darting to the bottom of the frame to read the text? In powerpoints with lots of text, people will try to read the text as soon as it pops up, which means they're not fully listening to your explanation. Ok, avoid blocks of text, and use bullet points? Sometimes not even that, because people cannot resist the urge to skim through all those as well. When teaching games, the text-heavy distraction is likely your player aid cheat sheet or maybe a player's secret starting hand of cards. Resist the urge to have the game fully set up and just toss it out there. They tend to "skip ahead" in the player aids and start thinking up questions that would already be answered when you actually get to explaining that part. Internet Spirit Island Explainer dude understands this concept, and doesn't start with any cards or player aids given to the players. Same goes for visuals. Our brains were evolved to visually scan and recognize patterns, which helped us to make an immediate decision whether to pick up our Rabbit Hunting Pointy Stick or our Saber Tooth Tiger Defense Pointy Stick when we saw something furry rustle in the bushes. We notice things, especially if you're one of the ~3% of humans worldwide with ADHD. Plopping out a bunch of pictures on a powerpoint slide will make people spend brain cycles trying to piece them together and predict the relationship*. Instead, if you must use multiple visuals on the same slide, it's recommended to have the visuals build through cues rather than show up at the beginning. Internet Spirit Island Explainer dude understands this, and applies it to the components by adding them gradually as the game is being explained. Here's the (empty) island, now we add the little wood huts of the locals, then here come the spirits, and then the loathsome colonizers. The play space is not visually as busy, and players don't see the invader minis, tableau artwork, or cards until they need to. How would you apply that to teaching, say, Dominion? Hold the players starting decks in reserve, set up the game as usual but leave the top card on all the kingdom decks and supply down. Use a single starter deck as an example that you hold to explain card anatomy and the win condition. Then reveal the money and VP cards from the supply. Here's the value, here's the cost. Game ends when all these are gone. In addition to money and victory points, there are these other cards here that we'll get to in detail that act as force multipliers to your property buying machine. Reveal them one at a time with explanation or in pairs if they have similar mechanics (Village is a garbage trap card, Festival is strictly better so of course it costs more) *This is the same reason why when I'm on the guessing side of a game of Codenames, I don't like to look at the words until your teammate gives the first clue. My brain just cannot help itself trying to draw connections between words and it anchors me and makes me less creative than just going in cold.
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Aug 20, 2022 03:26
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My main complaint with a game like Castles of Burgundy (which I love) is that there's SO MUCH to set up that if you take your time going one by one it takes ages, but if you try to set it all up first then it's daunting as hell.
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Aug 20, 2022 03:37
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I explain nothing, go right into it, and who gives a poo poo because it's always a goofy game like Quacks or Flamme Rouge which doesn't really matter what happens the first turn or so. It reduces setup and explanation by 90% and has a 1% impact on the final game. When I play Quacks with non-nerds: I tell everyone to pick their favorite color and they collect their items. No idea what the items do, but they've got something to look at and ~wonder about~ while they investigate these tokens and pots with numbers and things (I keep a starting set inside the sacks, so it's "grab your sacks and pot". Adds a bit of intrigue and gives everyone something to do. I give a brief "We're totally legitimate wizards trying to brew the the best Harry Potter potion for the magical faire" or similar. This points out the theme and goal of the game, but also sets the tone that this isn't some serious dramatic undertaking. Most components are still in the box, and it's fine because it gets people "doing things" faster. I tell everyone we each have identical ingredients and to look at the tokens in front of them and then toss them in the bag. Then add the "we can never look inside these bags again". Adds some drama. Then, in as dramatic of a fashion as necessary, "It's time to brew. Hands in sacks." Pull the sack up, reach in there, and shake it violently. The tokens clatter around like a drumroll introducing the game. Nobody still has any idea "how" to play, and it doesn't matter because we're making a cacophony of clanking chits in anticipation for.. something. This is when I consider we "start" playing, and it takes about two minutes from the box lid opening. Then, we pull. Everyone pulls at once, I don't tell anyone why we're pulling or what we're doing. We all pull simultaneously and reveal. Then, I start with me, and I note what I got, and where on my board it goes. Then I point out the next person (e.g., "you have a white two, you put it one-two spaces in your pot". Everyone goes through a turn. Then we pull again. At this point people know the turn mechanics with no pre-explanation. Each turn, you reach and pull. Because you can't bust with three chips, we do three rounds of this and then pause. Now, I explain to people that the farther along your potion goes, the "better" it is and the best potion will win an award for the round (pointing to where each persons potion stopped). Now everyone knows their round goal -- go the farthest along the spiral. I then say that those white ingredients are unstable... if you have more than 7 points in white ingredients, your potion explodes... and you definitely don't get the best potion award. So when the hands go back in the sack next turn, if you're happy where your potion is at, you come up with an empty hand to signal you're stopping (I make the motion of reaching and revealing while I say this). So we have the stop condition, and everyone looks at their pot, does some counting and risk analysis. Someone inevitably has no idea what's in their bag, to which I can point to the place on the board that reminds them of their starting pull, and then also remind them that your sack will grow over time, and I hope you can remember what you put in there there later. So we pull, stop, someone busts, whatever. When we're done, we do the die roll and then shop. If someone busts, I tell them that they miss out on the points for the round, but still get to buy. Technically they can pick either, but they don't need to know that for round one. I tell them they can pick "either or" about halfway through the game when they'll grasp what the tradeoff is. During the buy, I show everyone how to tell how much buying power they have for the turn, based on their board standing. Now everyone knows the entirety of the game, including how to weigh risk and stop conditions, and we're probably 5 minutes into the game and playing, instead of sitting and waiting for more rules. I pull out the ingredient boxes one at a time, and put the little recipe book in front of each. This pulling them from the box at this point, one-by-one, helps to keep people from getting overwhelmed as they can read one option while I get the next ready, since they have to read them anyway. So, people buy their ingredients, put them in their sack, and then sweep the board clean. At this point, if people "get it", I'll draw a fortune card for round two and tell everyone that each turn the crystal ball finds a way to mess with things, or I'll wait for a future turn if people are still getting the hang of it. Because it affects everyone equally, it doesn't really change game balance. Same with the Herb Witches, I'll wait until round 3 or so and tell people they "set up camp" and give them the coins. For the neutralizing potion, I usually mention that at the start of round two, after the first pull (since that's a time someone might use it -- better to explain something when necessary than before and hope they remember). I move the round tracker to the next round, and then tell people that we have 7 turns to prove ourselves at the faire before the game ends. So the duration comes at the end, when it's necessary. So it's not technically "by the book", but who gives a poo poo, it's balanced and it gets the game going in under 2 minutes. Every non-nerd I've taught Quacks this way and it's never failed. SO, part of my style of being "the teacher" is figuring out where you can skirt rules and cut things without any major impact to the game, in order to move the game going quickly. Rules explanations suck rear end and if you're playing a game that needs a massive rule dump at the start, it's the wrong game for DAD GAMING EXTRAVAGANZA. In conclusion, play Quacks. Also works well with people who like traditional dice games / chance games / press-your-luck games, like 21 or sevens or whatever since they're making the same analysis. PRADA SLUT fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Aug 20, 2022 |
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Aug 20, 2022 06:34
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Azran posted:My main complaint with a game like Castles of Burgundy (which I love) is that there's SO MUCH to set up that if you take your time going one by one it takes ages, but if you try to set it all up first then it's daunting as hell. Get some bags or an organizer. I use a plano box, and it's cut setup down to about ?5 minutes.
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Aug 20, 2022 12:54
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Been looking at Great Western Trail. Does anyone have opinions on it? Seems kinda complex.
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Aug 20, 2022 16:23
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swampcow posted:Been looking at Great Western Trail. Does anyone have opinions on it? Seems kinda complex. Welcome to the thread! GWT is widely beloved. I have not played it myself because my game group skews a bit too light for me to justify purchasing it. The question of complexity is a tough one, since complexity is really a sliding scale. BGG tells us that users in aggregate voted it a 3.7 for 'weight' which is pretty darn heavy. (The scale goes from 1 to 5.) What board games have you played before? We can then see if those games are of similar complexity or contain similar rules or modules that may assist in your learning process.
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Aug 20, 2022 16:43
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Magnetic North posted:Welcome to the thread! Thanks for the reply. I look at games as either more complex or less complex than Scythe. I'm willing to play more complex but I worry about finding other people who are willing to play. If GWT is widely beloved, maybe I just come up with a teaching script. Some games I've played recently; Scythe Axis and Allies St Petersburg Ingenious Coup Deception
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Aug 20, 2022 17:06
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swampcow posted:Thanks for the reply. I look at games as either more complex or less complex than Scythe. I'm willing to play more complex but I worry about finding other people who are willing to play. If GWT is widely beloved, maybe I just come up with a teaching script. If you've played Scythe, you're probably fine to try it or close to it. I was just checking to make sure you weren't someone who has only played Backgammon and Monopoly. (Not that there is anything wrong with that; everyone starts somewhere.) If you want to get an idea of how it plays, you could check out this video where a guy demonstrates the rules over an example play-through. The video is from when the 1st edition was out, but I don't think there are too many mechanical changes to the recent 2nd Edition. Also, it's almost 2 hours long, so get comfy I guess.
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Aug 20, 2022 17:13
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It's also got a tutorial on BoardGameArena.
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Aug 20, 2022 17:57
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there’s a really great tutorial for gwt by meeple university on youtube https://youtu.be/5mMEzmZc7ys
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Aug 20, 2022 18:05
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Thanks guys!
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Aug 20, 2022 18:09
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swampcow posted:Thanks for the reply. I look at games as either more complex or less complex than Scythe. I'm willing to play more complex but I worry about finding other people who are willing to play. If GWT is widely beloved, maybe I just come up with a teaching script. I'd say it's about the most complex of all these but I haven't played Axis and Allies in forever and never played Ingenious. It's fairly front-end loaded and the symbols on the tiles can take a bit to get used to as will the whole system with the employees you're hiring. It's a really fun game and if you like the game in your first play or three or want to be a tough guy off the bat, add the expansion. it makes the train section way more interesting and important. And then when you've finished adding that go out and buy a copy of 1830 and play the real train game.
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Aug 20, 2022 18:59
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FulsomFrank posted:I'd say it's about the most complex of all these but I haven't played Axis and Allies in forever and never played Ingenious. It's fairly front-end loaded and the symbols on the tiles can take a bit to get used to as will the whole system with the employees you're hiring. It's a really fun game and if you like the game in your first play or three or want to be a tough guy off the bat, add the expansion. it makes the train section way more interesting and important. And then when you've finished adding that go out and buy a copy of 1830 and play the real train game. Good to know the expansion is worth it, thanks
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Aug 20, 2022 22:21
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Played Downpour Drenches the World in Spirit island, and what an interesting Spirit it is. Having to discard cards for one of the growths really makes you think about your options, and in terms of a defensive spirit, Downpour has a few quirks that make them a little bit different to play in comparison to other spirits. Although the defensive options are strong, they also either make the counterattack of the Dahan weaker, or drive the Dahan away altogether, which means that unlike some of the other defensive spirits, you have to think outside the box in terms of how to deal with the invaders permanently. Being able to repeat powers is extremely strong, especially coupled with the ability to make any area a wetland for the purposes of cards or special rules. This also plays into how you pick powers as well, with relatively crappy Minors becoming powerhouses. For example, I got a 1 cost fast power that either moved 3 Dahan, or did 1 damage per Dahan, but to a different enemy. The 1 damage to a different enemy is alright, but being able to spam this same power 2, 3 or even 4 times? That's a lot of damage building up. The last play in the game I played was using that card to move 3 Dahan to a land two spaces away, and then playing the card twice more to deal enough damage to an already-damaged city to win the game. You can do some crazy stuff with Downpour, and the spirit really plays unlike any other I've played in Spirit Island. Also, let me know if people are interested in these mini Spirit Reviews/thoughts. I'll keep doing them if people are interested. Tekopo fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Aug 20, 2022 |
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Aug 20, 2022 22:31
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Keep posting, I haven't managed to get some of the more complex spirits out the box. Also I noticed recently GTG do some really high production Spirit overviews on their YouTube. https://youtu.be/JjBBNYXQb2I
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Aug 20, 2022 22:46
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Yeah I spent like a weekend looking at every single one of their videos and they owned. I kinda liked the almost informal way that the narrator describes the spirits. Would recommend watching them for anyone interested in the game.
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Aug 20, 2022 22:49
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I feel like Downpour's defensive innate is almost a trap, except maybe in very large tables. It's situationally useful when you can easily arrange to not be where the Dahan are fighting but giving up counterattack kills is a very steep price and if you have other ways to defend it's often worth taking blight in order to preserve counterattacks. Downpour has enough defense and blight removal even without the suppression innate that you can usually afford blight more than you can afford letting invaders live. The defense card that drives Dahan away is fantastic though, especially when adjacent lands are ravaging--just repeat it to ping pong the Dahan between them while stacking defense, and rack up free fear to boot. Of course, there is one way to get your money's worth out of the defensive innate: The "discard 2" effect on your growth is not a cost, so there is nothing stopping you from spamming the double growth with an empty hand, playing no cards, powering the innate with elements from your spirit tracks alone to defend with just your presence, dumping all of your water elements into energy via your special rule, and picking up a major like 5 turns in to go ham on repeats with a huge stack of energy.
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Aug 20, 2022 22:53
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Despite messing up a couple of rules and playing inefficiently, I really liked Pax Pamir 2E. In my defence, I was mildly stoned because that's the only way I can play with this particular friend who has incorrigible AP. For an idea of how slow he is, I lost on the second dominance check (whoops), and it still took three hours. I try not to look at the time, but he easily takes 10 minutes, sometimes more like 15 or 20, to take a turn. It ruins the flow for me, so I just resign myself to the fact that I will probably lose and read while I'm waiting for him to take his turn (he can't hold a conversation while he deliberates, so I don't want to just sit there silently, and I have no interest in parsing the board state for such an excruciating length of time). I got behind on spies/tribes, and I wasn't able to push any coalition to dominance, so I was scrambling. I used the betray action a couple of times to remove some of his cards, but I didn't manage to remove any of his spies, so in retrospect, I was mostly hurting myself. Doctor Spaceman posted:The Overthrow rule (the link between purple cards and tribes on the board) is flagged as something that is easy to miss for a reason. I messed up this rule: I thought it applied to all court cards, not just the political suit. (My internet went down soon after my original post, so I wasn't actually able to read replies or watch a playthrough before we began.) We also weren't consistent in noticing/paying bribes. I don't know when I'll play it again because the AP is truly painful. My friends who play in a reasonable amount of time no longer live in the same city, so I need to find a new group or stick with shorter/less complex games to temper the AP. Still, I'm happy I got to play it, and I'll give the solo game a try.
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Aug 20, 2022 23:28
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Introduce a new board gamer the same way I do, with a copy of Dungeon Lords and an hour of explanations on its mechanics.
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Aug 21, 2022 06:27
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mellifluous posted:I messed up this rule: I thought it applied to all court cards, not just the political suit. (My internet went down soon after my original post, so I wasn't actually able to read replies or watch a playthrough before we began.) We also weren't consistent in noticing/paying bribes. This is a pretty common way to misread it. And bribes can be very missable, as can the market getting twice as expensive during Military season. Also, I guess it's good that you're patient with your friend but great googly moogly I would not put myself through that.
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Aug 21, 2022 06:42
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Morpheus posted:Introduce a new board gamer the same way I do, with a copy of Dungeon Lords and an hour of explanations on its mechanics. Talisman with all the expansions and permadeath.
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Aug 21, 2022 10:16
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Quote-Unquote posted:Talisman with all the expansions and permadeath. Edit: It literally just occurred to me that the Pokemon Master Trainer board game was basically just Talisman for 90s kids. girl dick energy fucked around with this message at 10:33 on Aug 21, 2022 |
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Aug 21, 2022 10:29
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mellifluous posted:I messed up this rule: I thought it applied to all court cards, not just the political suit. (My internet went down soon after my original post, so I wasn't actually able to read replies or watch a playthrough before we began.) We also weren't consistent in noticing/paying bribes. We did this for way too many plays before noticing we were doing it wrong.
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Aug 21, 2022 13:28
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