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live with fruit posted:Blonsky was already a highly trained soldier. I forgot how good American soldiers are at not turning into murderous, inarticulate rage monsters It helps cover why he can go toe-to-toe with the Hulkster, but even then I feel like the ludicrous difference in body shape and weight, addition of spines, transformation of exterior joints and everything else that happened to Blonsky would help even that soldier training out with Bruce's actual field experience being the Hulk. I'm not feeling it much small edit: there's a way more obvious gotcha to be had here but nobody remembers that movie lmao it's not my point though
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Aug 20, 2022 05:38
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Lunatic Sledge posted:I forgot how good American soldiers are at not turning into murderous, inarticulate rage monsters I'm pretty sure he did in fact become a murderous rage monster. He just had a target.
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Aug 20, 2022 06:11
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Lord_Magmar posted:I'm pretty sure he did in fact become a murderous rage monster. He just had a target. Come on now, you know what I mean. He wasn't all "blonsky smash," he was speaking in complete sentences and forming coherent thoughts. He wasn't a separate Blonsky, just himself dialed sideways (and how much of that was just meant to be old fashioned power hungery human villain behavior, I couldn't tell you). He wasn't consumed by rage, or even hampered by his other flaws- his ambition / thirst for greater strength only held him back in the sense that it lead to him fighting the Hulk. He had one moment where he thrashed that scientist upon waking up, and immediately after Blonsky has this Abomination poo poo absolutely mastered. They don't teach you that in Soldier School. He's not even a murderous rage monster as of Shang Chi, despite zero explanation. Blonsky even got the old, raw Hulk blood, in comparison to Jen getting post-gamma lab Hulk blood. So why is the barrier for believability so much higher for Jen? Why's Jen "BASICALLY REY FROM STAR WARS" but Blonsky gets a free pass? Why is it so hard to swallow that this may have never been consistent at all, not even internally? Is it because Blonsky got a penis? Is that really it, 'cuz y'all are letting me down here I figured it out halfway through my last post, but Blonsky didn't even get Hulk blood- he got some voodoo remnant of the super soldier serum. He then double dosed and it turned him into a monster for no loving reason, there's your internal consistency. Nobody else called that, though, 'twas pretty weak
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Aug 20, 2022 06:26
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"Soldier" is Hollywood's shortcut for hyper-competent killing machines.
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Aug 20, 2022 06:52
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Cross postingMcCloud posted:https://twitter.com/tommy_culkin/status/1560658385925980161?s=20&t=3SFmMPs7kGCYUmN63dF8Zw
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Aug 20, 2022 07:03
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I know, I know, "tale as old as time" - but it feels very much like all the usual bad-faith actors claiming She Hulk is awful misandry and implies all men are awful, are VERY much telling on themselves.
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Aug 20, 2022 07:47
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I for one will not be satisfied until Mark Ruffalo delivers a 17-slide PowerPoint presentation direct to camera explaining that Hulk's muscle mass and bone density makes for higher force and tensile strength to let all the male dickhavers know that they don't need to feel emasculatedLunatic Sledge posted:So does anyone want to bring up Blonsky, orrr Blonsky easily assimilated with his Hulk side because he's an rear end in a top hat
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Aug 20, 2022 08:41
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There are rumours Henry Cavill's going to be in Season 2 of Loki playing Hyperion and that is just 
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Aug 20, 2022 09:03
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Nelson Mandingo posted:I am a feminist. I appreciate feminist writing. I feel like they went too far with Jennifer in She Hulk in that within days she's equal to Bruce in control of her Hulk form (which I can handwave the anger aspect with Bruce having a comparatively awful abusive childhood / the harsh truth of anger control women have to do, which I'm totally on board for here) and in combat. And that part really doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Can everyone stop writing in this whole abusive childhood thing about Bruce Banner? It’s not in the mcu, it never has been even hinted at. But also, I think certain people are getting too hung up on this whole power level stuff. The relative power or competency of characters being a bit elastic to serve the story of an individual comic has been a thing forever. People are trying to jump through all these weird hoops to make this work as part of some grand unified marvel theory, when the answer is that it serves the story because it creates a context where Bruce has to come to terms with the fact that his whole alter ego thing was specific to him. And of course gives a good foundation for the more flippant/breezy tone of this show and the Jen character, and obviously works for what the show has to say about women and public anger. Like, who cares how long he’s been training. He’s a supporting character in a show that is very clearly not about looking at the mcu from that angle. People were whining the same way about Loki, when they’d obviously reshaped his character slightly to make for a more interesting show. This feels very in the spirit of a comic book franchise, where individual runs do their own thing but have key plot points that plug into a wider arc.
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Aug 20, 2022 09:45
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I'm pleasantly surprised it took this long for people to start bringing Rey into the conversation.
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Aug 20, 2022 10:22
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She-Hulk, such a Mary-Sue. There, I wrote it, can we be done now and enjoy a Tatiana Maslany show? Jfc.
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Aug 20, 2022 10:34
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All I know is that the Hulk was definitely fighting at 100% capacity that whole time. Bruce was definitely trying to murder his cousin and also the Hulk canonically never gets any stronger under any conditions.
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Aug 20, 2022 11:34
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Lunatic Sledge posted:My real point is, homeboy came out the gate MORE EVIL but mostly competent and with strength rivaling Bruce's; Hulk barely squeezed out the win in the Norton film, and probably wouldn't have if not for Betty being in danger Abomination is stronger than Hulk in his calmer moments, but doesn't get any stronger when he gets angered. He's also a hosed up dude, but is completely at peace with that, so he doesn't have any alter egos. His outward appearance reflects who he always was. Lunatic Sledge posted:I just want to point out that prior to Homecoming, people on the internet (maybe even here) absolutely did piss and moan about Spider-man hanging with Cap as well as he did. ...And in other places, people pissed and moaned that Spider-man didn't paste Cap with one punch, because nerds. Pete does straight up catch a Bucky punch like it's a joke later in the same movie, to be fair. Regardless, you're saying Civil War's writing of the situation is handled better because of a movie that came out a year later. What if the next episode of She-Hulk justifies the fight in a way that satisfies you better? What if episode 3 reveals Jen's a blackbelt (originally for self defense, not unreasonable)? What if episode 4 reveals Hulk's actually been getting weaker since Endgame for whatever arbitrary science reason? Jesus, Spider-man almost never throws a full strength punch. That's just not who he is. People are so bad at media consumption.
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Aug 20, 2022 11:45
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People who think the Hulk / She Hulk fight was anything then cousin's squabbling and then making up, completely missed the point. Neither was going for the kill because they are cousins and they care for each other deeply. This is pretty much supers 101: Have heroes fight each other and then make up. and apparently all hulks see the 4th wall. :p mcbexx posted:She-Hulk, such a Mary-Sue. Tatiana Maslany is a Mary Sue and I intend to enjoy every minute of it. 
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Aug 20, 2022 11:52
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Rarity posted:There are rumours Henry Cavill's going to be in Season 2 of Loki playing Hyperion and that is just I pray to God they put a CGI mustache on his face in post-production.
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Aug 20, 2022 11:59
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So this lady gets abducted and taken to another country(?), has tests run on her without her knowledge or consent, and when she tries to leave her abductor prevents her from doing so resulting in a physical fight. And then the text never really acknowledges how deeply hosed this whole thing is. I see where the people criticising the work for its shallow feminist elements are coming from, and agree, but it's also not super feminist in its own way.
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Aug 20, 2022 12:11
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The REAL Goobusters posted:The breaking the 4th wall writing is also not good at all, idk it’s just too on the nose. I started re-reading the Byrne run of She-Hulk, and not only is Jen fully aware that she's in a comic, she has constant dialogue with the readers and the editors of the comic. On top of that, other characters in the comic are aware they are in a comic, and they discuss this with Jen. So, you know, the show takes a moderate approach to this!
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Aug 20, 2022 12:24
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drat, and here I was just furious over the RBG statue at the beginning
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Aug 20, 2022 12:25
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Open Source Idiom posted:So this lady gets abducted and taken to another country(?), has tests run on her without her knowledge or consent, and when she tries to leave her abductor prevents her from doing so resulting in a physical fight. And then the text never really acknowledges how deeply hosed this whole thing is. I can't tell if this post is satire, but taking it at face value - and ignoring the fact that it's a story about two close relatives taking care of one another but also being a bit stressed and not a woman being abducted (?) - "the work" doesn't need to outwardly respond to or directly critique itself to the audience in order to adhere to its own ideology. But even then your "reading" (watching) of this "text" (marvel show about a big lady who punch good) is completely overlooking what's right under your nose - this being a marvel show they do absolutely spell it all out without any kind of subtext. The entire plot of the episode is how she's annoyed that her cousin is being overprotective and projecting all his own demons on to her. The plot is literally about how she's not okay with that because he's doing the superhero version of mansplaining. Why are people so bad at media literacy (including me I guess if your post was a joke)
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Aug 20, 2022 12:33
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I really want She-Hulk to get a cameo in Deadpool 3
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Aug 20, 2022 12:35
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Deadpool does seem like the sort of person who would order cameos of other superheros, dunno if a lawyer would need that side hustle money though.
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Aug 20, 2022 13:05
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Jennifer talks a big game, but could you imagine the angst if Bruce didn't help and she did overreacting bad things happened ( which I'm still not completely unconvinced isn't going to happen eventually) Also mansplaining is the female equivalent of the men are talking and it's really annoying for literally the same reason. She Hulk will be mostly lighthearted but the simple fact is she still a weapon of mass destruction and Bruce isn't wrong.
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Aug 20, 2022 13:55
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I figured those guys at the bar were dead for sure, but since Bruce didn't mention it... 
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Aug 20, 2022 14:04
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shades of eternity posted:Also mansplaining is the female equivalent of the men are talking Lmao imagine posting this in 2022
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Aug 20, 2022 14:05
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In the restroom scene, they list all 3 pronouns. Waste of 0.44 seconds, I'm guessing they cut some bad cgi and had to stretch the episode out
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Aug 20, 2022 14:07
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Rappaport posted:I started re-reading the Byrne run of She-Hulk, and not only is Jen fully aware that she's in a comic, she has constant dialogue with the readers and the editors of the comic. On top of that, other characters in the comic are aware they are in a comic, and they discuss this with Jen. My thing is that in this tv show. It’s being done poorly. There’s a smug / semi ironic or detached vibe to the monologues that has been the norm in marvel movies and tv shows and just does not work for me. Like I was saying in some of my other posts, my biggest beef with this show is just the writing itself. Idk maybe cynical comedy is the word I’m looking for?
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Aug 20, 2022 14:11
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StrugglingHoneybun posted:In the restroom scene, they list all 3 pronouns. Waste of 0.44 seconds, I'm guessing they cut some bad cgi and had to stretch the episode out For me this was the true only good part in the episode.
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Aug 20, 2022 14:13
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This is gonna be a fun thread during She Hulk. Ooooh boy!
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Aug 20, 2022 14:33
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The REAL Goobusters posted:The breaking the 4th wall writing is also not good at all, idk it’s just too on the nose. How do you subtly break the 4th wall? It's on the nose by it's nature. It's also not even nearly as extreme as it could be, since it's based on a run where the character actively argued with the writer and artist on a regular basis, threatening to beat them up for putting them in risque situations for sales and so on. Nelson Mandingo posted:I am a feminist. I appreciate feminist writing. I feel like they went too far with Jennifer in She Hulk in that within days she's equal to Bruce in control of her Hulk form (which I can handwave the anger aspect with Bruce having a comparatively awful abusive childhood / the harsh truth of anger control women have to do, which I'm totally on board for here) and in combat. And that part really doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I'm pretty sure that for all Jen's claims that she has it under control she actually doesn't, or at least hasn't really integrated it, since (a) she was a ball of incoherent rage the first two times she did transform and (b) she's actively trying to push the Hulk part of her life aside, rather than integrating it. Which isn't really a good synthesis of that aspect of herself. The fact she has superficial control in normal situations doesn't mean she'll have control if and/or when things start going sideways. Which they very much had in the two instances we see of her as a rage ball, when she's just been in a car crash and when she's anxious around men who are being very pushy douchebags. It's possible she'll have control in stressful situations in future where she feels she's in danger, even as She-Hulk but even if she was that doesn't mean she's actually integrated the two parts of her life (lawyering and Hulking), and I'm going to bet that the season's central conflict will come from those two parts tearing against each other. Which is basically already emblematic in her having to defend a Hulk who tried to murder her cousin anyway. Jen can, and almost certainly will continue to be a lawyer, but she's going to have to accept herself as She-Hulk at some point too. Which means coming to terms with being a hero. The opening monologue even foreshadows this, since it's her asking if people with power have an obligation to use that power to help those who don't. Now she has a power she can use to defend the helpless that she has no interest in using because it's interfering in her life. So what's her obligation now? The Grumbles posted:The plot is literally about how she's not okay with that because he's doing the superhero version of mansplaining. I'd say it's her doing the superhero equivalent of mansplaining, honestly, since she's been a Hulk for a few days and thinks she's got a better handle on it than someone who has been that way for 15 years; ignoring, rejecting and even belittling any advice and help he tries to give her at basically every turn. tsob fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Aug 20, 2022 |
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Aug 20, 2022 14:45
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There's truth in that (which will probably be her arc in the series) but the majority of his advise simply did not apply to her situation. And he didn't attempt to adjust or adapt his advice at all, insisting that she's going through the same thing he did.
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Aug 20, 2022 14:59
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Pretty sure Banner launched that huge rock out into space, there was a brief explosion that looked like something leaving orbit at extremely high speed. Not that there's a whole lot of consistency with Hulk's power level but that's a minor nitpick.
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Aug 20, 2022 15:02
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This tv show treats Jen receiving hulk power like an after thought and just wants to move on to something else. Just feels rushed to me. Probably wouldn’t be an in issue in a normal tv show, but since this is a Disney+ mcu show, there’s no real room to breathe
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Aug 20, 2022 15:08
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That's literally always been She-Hulk's story though. She gets her powers, shrugs and goes on living her life
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Aug 20, 2022 15:13
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stev posted:There's truth in that (which will probably be her arc in the series) but the majority of his advise simply did not apply to her situation. And he didn't attempt to adjust or adapt his advice at all, insisting that she's going through the same thing he did. It's not like Jen gave him the opportunity to do so, since customizing it to her situation would require that she work with him on experimenting to see what her problems or limitations are and what works for her with those. Instead, she wants to ignore everything he has to offer, ignore the Hulk aspect entirely and immediately leave to go back to her life while insisting that she never has to deal with being a Hulk at all. Rarity posted:That's literally always been She-Hulk's story though. She gets her powers, shrugs and goes on living her life Her story has also always been that any problems with being a Hulk manifested differently for her and ended up coming through despite her insistence she was perfectly fine. Not that she doesn't have any. Usually in her refusal or just inability to properly gel the two parts of herself together. Which has come out in the past as a realization that she's stuck being the She-Hulk for a while and can't become Jen, which in reality was because she simply enjoyed the benefits of She-Hulk too much and just didn't want to go back to being Jen anymore. Which is basically the opposite problem Bruce has. He doesn't want to be the Hulk, she doesn't want to be not the Hulk. It has manifested more traditionally for her though (compared to Bruce), and she's taken on a savage form that she has no control of and no experience with despite herself several times throughout her comics, going back decades now. Or she's felt relatively powerless because she's mostly concentrated on being a lawyer rather than a Hulk, and so didn't even realize how to increase her strength as a Hulk for ages until she was pushed by being beaten as She-Hulk in a fight. There's even some indication the first is a thing that'll happen since, despite her insistence that she doesn't need the She-Hulk, we see a lot of She-Hulk in normal situations at parties, dating etc. in trailers. Which implies Jen goes She-Hulk and likes it, and is doing it as a normal thing. So maybe pushing off being Jen in favor of being She-Hulk. That said, Bruce is pretty loving awful at selling the benefits of being the Hulk, since the only one he gives so far as we see is "you can drink a lot and not get drunk". He can travel basically anywhere in the world by jumping in pretty short order, which saves a lot of time/money, and he's basically indestructible and possibly even immortal. Plus, he's gotten to go to space to have pretty crazy adventures, met Gods etc. Which you'd think are benefits to being a Hulk most people could get on board with. tsob fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Aug 20, 2022 |
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Aug 20, 2022 15:14
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Marsupial Ape posted:I’m legitimately trying make a nuanced comment about how my thoughts on believing women when they save they move through a hostile world, but I’m super high so this is the best I can do: lmao, how did you write this poo poo without the cringe curling you up so bad you collapse in on yourself? Like I get what you were going for but that is the most embarrassing and terminally online way to try and say it. Lunatic Sledge posted:I figured it out halfway through my last post, but Blonsky didn't even get Hulk blood- he got some voodoo remnant of the super soldier serum. He then double dosed and it turned him into a monster for no loving reason, there's your internal consistency. Nobody else called that, though, 'twas pretty weak Blonsky double doses the super soldier serum *then* demands Sterns pump him up with the blood he'd extracted from Bruce. He does have Hulk blood, he doesn't turn into a monster "for no reason". Anyway, the show's fun, probably the most enjoyable first ep any of these series have had yet. Bring on the lawyering, and Mary being a jerk to Jen any chance she gets.
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Aug 20, 2022 16:09
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Marsupial Ape posted:I’m legitimately trying make a nuanced comment about how my thoughts on believing women when they save they move through a hostile world, but I’m super high And this is where you stop posting.
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Aug 20, 2022 16:11
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The REAL Goobusters posted:We don’t even know that much about Jen in this tv show yet at all, it’s really hard to know who this character is other than what’s been shown so far. The very first scene is Jen practicing her closing argument with the one male lawyer trying to convince her that he should do the closing while also dismissing the opinions of the other woman in the room because she's a paralegal (woman).
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Aug 20, 2022 16:27
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The original John Byrne comics had Jen/She-Hulk railing against the author for putting her in skimpy outfits to drive sales among other things; I wonder if this show has Jen insisting it's a "lawyer show" to the camera so she can rage at the camera and specifically argue with the writer/production team (and by inference; Disney) for making her fight and be a super hero in her lawyer show later on down the line? I don't think the rabbit hole will go that deep, especially when it involves criticizing Disney; but it'd be a fun update of her character from the comics and way to keep in arguing with the author.
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Aug 20, 2022 16:32
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Everyone posted:The very first scene is Jen practicing her closing argument with the one male lawyer trying to convince her that he should do the closing while also dismissing the opinions of the other woman in the room because she's a paralegal (woman). yeah subtlety is not the show's MO
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Aug 20, 2022 16:32
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Lmao, she-hulk sues Kevin Feige for breach of contract after being guaranteed a "Lawyer Show" but instead having to save the world from a giant blue space laser. Just step right on through the 4th wall and welcome into my living room. Let's you and I both watch your show together Miss She-Hulk
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Aug 20, 2022 16:42
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