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Crowsbeak posted:Funny rendition of Max Blumenthal’s necessary actions. What's supposedly wrong with Ben
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Aug 19, 2022 15:37
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Ben didn't get completely broke brained by Covid
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Aug 19, 2022 19:40
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https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1560652864816500743
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Aug 19, 2022 19:41
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Infrared Haz just posted up a video denouncing Ben Norton as a liberal who upholds liberal cultural power while denouncing American imperialism. The reactionary communists are smelling blood in the water and jumping in on him all at once, and I have no clue what the trigger is.
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Aug 19, 2022 20:10
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Infrared Haz just posted up a video denouncing Ben Norton as a liberal who upholds liberal cultural power while denouncing American imperialism. The reactionary communists are smelling blood in the water and jumping in on him all at once, and I have no clue what the trigger is. the trigger is potential views, clout and (they hope) payola norton is much more known than infrared and he's (respectfully!) a nobody
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Aug 19, 2022 20:58
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Doktor Avalanche posted:the trigger is potential views, clout and (they hope) payola that's a motivation, not a trigger. something set off the dinner bell in their brains to make them act in concert, I just don't know what it is.
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Aug 19, 2022 21:00
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:that's a motivation, not a trigger. something set off the dinner bell in their brains to make them act in concert, I just don't know what it is.
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Aug 19, 2022 21:02
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:well it's all the same people who inhabit the same discord server, isn't it? they seem to really believe in the power of the ratio I'm not so sure about that. They definitely orbit around each other in the right wing leftist microeconomy, but I don't think Jackson Hinkle is an Infrared guy.
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Aug 19, 2022 21:07
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lol i was getting a bit confused cause i thought you were talking about this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Hickel
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Aug 19, 2022 21:11
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tristeham posted:lol i was getting a bit confused cause i thought you were talking about this guy This gets me every time too
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Aug 19, 2022 21:12
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I'm not so sure about that. They definitely orbit around each other in the right wing leftist microeconomy, but I don't think Jackson Hinkle is an Infrared guy.
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Aug 19, 2022 21:12
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Hinkle isn't a part of infrared but him and Haz hang out I think. Plus they probably share a good part of their audience and watch each others videos so it's simple to check out the comments and see where you should aim at.
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Aug 19, 2022 21:14
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I'm not so sure about that. They definitely orbit around each other in the right wing leftist microeconomy, but I don't think Jackson Hinkle is an Infrared guy. He's part of that Maupin - Haz crowd, has been on Dore a lot. Its weird. He's usually not as bad as the rest of them but is definitely pushing the same patsoc stuff.
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Aug 19, 2022 21:15
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ben is cool
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Aug 19, 2022 21:21
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:well he is, and he isn't. i think it's more part of a constantly shapeshifting neo-fascist tendency that is trying to find its footing I've been making the mistake of wasting my time arguing with Xiangyu on twitter and a bunch of his hangers on, and one thing I've noticed about the "pragmatic east asian communist" crowd is how often they fall back on just-so tautologies as thought killing phrases. Whatever they say is true because it is true, there's no drive to investigate or admit to real world conditions, which is especially difficult if you're trying to illustrate why Taiwan is equivalent to a first world country. It's a mode of thought built around sloganeering and CPC fetishization rather than any kind of praxis.
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Aug 19, 2022 22:05
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paul_soccer12 posted:ben is cool I like Multipolarista. He puts out a lot of content and it's easy to listen to. I hope he keeps it up.
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Aug 19, 2022 23:52
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I've been making the mistake of wasting my time arguing with Xiangyu on twitter and a bunch of his hangers on, and one thing I've noticed about the "pragmatic east asian communist" crowd is how often they fall back on just-so tautologies as thought killing phrases. Whatever they say is true because it is true, there's no drive to investigate or admit to real world conditions, which is especially difficult if you're trying to illustrate why Taiwan is equivalent to a first world country. It's a mode of thought built around sloganeering and CPC fetishization rather than any kind of praxis. i think there might be some underestimation of the remaining power of U.S. imperialism. they do see that it's in decline, that "china is rising," and no one else really seems to think about the implications of that, and how we're entering a different world, and that can be either exciting or terrifying depending on your point of view. but strength exists on different axes. and this is going to take some time to play out. those aircraft carrier strike groups haven't been sunk yet. there are still U.S. military bases all over the world. this could continue for quite some time. xi doesn't hit the nuke button and retakes taiwan where you can then vicariously win. so then some kind of cognitive dissonance is introduced, and some frustration, which leads to this hunting around for scapegoats like... the furries. yeah i dunno either. it's a weird thing. the one thing that is going on in the U.S. left that i find interesting and creative right now are in these labor movements. like the medieval times knights and table wenches forming unions. but the rightist leftist or "patriotic socialists" or whatever they call themselves now seem to resent this or are even actively hostile to it. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 00:38 on Aug 20, 2022 |
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Aug 20, 2022 00:30
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:what do you mean by just-so tautologies? i'm interested. can you give some specific examples? "Taiwan is not a country, Taiwan is China" therefore "Xiangyu is from China" not Taiwan. "Taiwan is not sovereign." Alright, that stuff might be literally legally true, but it doesn't tell us anything about how Taiwan operates in the world or its position in global imperialism. You could draw up the objective economic metrics or point to their capital intensive industries and the response will be, "Taiwan isn't that rich." They give off the sense that they think Taiwan is already a part of the PRC and that it's a settled issue, even though it clearly isn't while the US is still driving a wedge to keep Taiwan separated from the mainland. If you bring up something that can't be dismissed with a tautology, like Taiwan's decades long partnership with the US and their dependency on the US to get unfettered global market access despite being an unrecognized state - well they just ignore that altogether and focus on tautological semantics. Basically my point is that Xiangyu has lived his entire life in the 1st world, in states which have never had actually existing communist movements in his lifetime, which makes him just as much of a "western communist" as any of the rest of us regardless of how he identifies. If you investigate the propositions then you can objectively demonstrate this is true, but to them it can't possibly be true because Xiangyu is Chinese. End of discussion. BrutalistMcDonalds posted:it's a weird thing. the one thing that is going on in the U.S. left that i find interesting and creative right now are in these labor movements. like the medieval times knights and table wenches forming unions. but the rightist leftist or "patriotic socialists" or whatever they call themselves now seem to resent this or are even actively hostile to it. They resent it because they don't like the form it's taking, particularly when the participants are "deviant" like the guy in Kansas who started wearing a fursuit after they fired him for organizing. They talk about how he's not engaging with the working class, when the "working class" they're talking about is an abstracted formation with no direct relation to him, and he's engaging with the working class that dialectically matters the most - the people he knows & works with. They kvetch over optics like liberals while decrying everyone else as liberal. It's tiresome. Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 02:04 on Aug 20, 2022 |
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Aug 20, 2022 01:59
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Ytlaya posted:What's supposedly wrong with Ben He rejected the wisdom of comrade Max.
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Aug 20, 2022 02:25
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:They kvetch over optics like liberals while decrying everyone else as liberal. It's tiresome.
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Aug 20, 2022 08:14
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Crowsbeak posted:He rejected the wisdom of comrade Max. This isn't an attack, but you don't have to pick sides here. It's okay to read/listen to both of them.
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Aug 20, 2022 10:38
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Greg Legg posted:This isn't an attack, but you don't have to pick sides here. It's okay to read/listen to both of them. I don't think you really "get" Crowsbeak, the most fervent disciple of Glennism
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Aug 20, 2022 11:02
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Ben Thought only
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Aug 20, 2022 14:28
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Infrared Haz just posted up a video denouncing Ben Norton as a liberal who upholds liberal cultural power while denouncing American imperialism. The reactionary communists are smelling blood in the water and jumping in on him all at once, and I have no clue what the trigger is. https://twitter.com/plbmagazine/status/1558863126484828161?s=20&t=R5AJIjF7yMsJ4AcOCl-CGw https://twitter.com/plbmagazine/status/1557553532399628288?s=20&t=R5AJIjF7yMsJ4AcOCl-CGw I choose to believe they got triggered by these posters
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Aug 20, 2022 16:03
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:They resent it because they don't like the form it's taking, particularly when the participants are "deviant" like the guy in Kansas who started wearing a fursuit after they fired him for organizing. They talk about how he's not engaging with the working class, when the "working class" they're talking about is an abstracted formation with no direct relation to him, and he's engaging with the working class that dialectically matters the most - the people he knows & works with.
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Aug 20, 2022 16:08
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:right. and when they talk about "the working class" like it's external, they're basically (if unknowingly) saying they're not part of it themselves Yes! They all imagine themselves as potential Lenins without recognizing that Lenin had an entire party behind him, which could only realize power through direct empowerment of the masses. It's not enough to be a class traitor with a correct political line, you need a real power base built on class consciousness. They're all a bunch of Hitlerites who expect people to line up behind them for catering to their reactionary sentiments.
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Aug 20, 2022 18:01
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Benny as always being the good Demon Rat sheepdog. https://mobile.twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1561035513057927168 Also what triggers you all about Caleb ? I mean he does more work then Benny ever did against imperialism. Also lol yeah you’re totally going to get the proletariat on your side by promising to destroy their nation. I know a lot of you think America is uniquely evil. But I have a secret all nations can engage in imperialism and all can also potentially take part in liberation from the imperial project of Wall Street, London, and Langley. Crowsbeak has issued a correction as of 19:40 on Aug 20, 2022 |
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Aug 20, 2022 19:37
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giving up on internationalism shouldn't be an option for any serious marxist.
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Aug 20, 2022 20:11
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tristeham posted:giving up on internationalism shouldn't be an option for any serious marxist. Giving up on internationalism doesn’t mean. “You know what, we should destroy this country that currently exists as it is irredeemably evil”. You know where you have posters say American patriotism is all just “colonizer”. What part of the Western Hemisphere is not colonized? Now say putting one nation over all others is that acceptable? No. But acting as though one country in uniquely evil is a laughable action and also does nothing to unite the workers of that country.
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Aug 20, 2022 20:22
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Crowsbeak posted:Benny as always being the good Demon Rat sheepdog. https://mobile.twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1561035513057927168 lol that we have these types of freaks in cspam
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Aug 20, 2022 20:30
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Lessail posted:lol that we have these types of freaks in cspam Freaks do think you can ally with workers by promising to destroy their homeland. Crowsbeak has issued a correction as of 20:43 on Aug 20, 2022 |
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Aug 20, 2022 20:34
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Lessail posted:lol that we have these types of freaks in cspam Crowsbeak has basically made a religion of "owning the libs," taking the sentiment as far as "saying bad things about the Republicans means you're a lib" (as in those Ben Norton tweets)
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Aug 20, 2022 20:35
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Crowsbeak posted:Also what triggers you all about Caleb ? I mean he does more work then Benny ever did against imperialism. He's an antisocial creep who is credibly accused by his former comrades of committing sexual assault and abusing his authority. And he's a Hitlerite.
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Aug 20, 2022 20:35
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Crowsbeak is an incredibly bizarre poster and you should probably just glaze over anything he has to say
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Aug 20, 2022 20:40
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:He's an antisocial creep who is credibly accused by his former comrades of committing sexual assault and abusing his authority. And he's a Hitlerite. Lol. Hitlerite to you means defending Comrade Ortega. Also look a medium post I just saw needs more to it. It could be something but then after me too I need more then just a medium post. I need people to come forward. As in faces. If they do then it is true. If they don’t. Well MeToo taught me to be cautious of just a medium post. Also lol at Ben being such a sheep dog for democrats. But in the end he has never ever wanted to win just be a good junior democrat. Which of course is actually the real agenda of those who say “let’s unite the workers by promising to destroy their home country”.
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Aug 20, 2022 20:40
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Crowsbeak posted:
https://twitter.com/notXiangyu/status/1560873476625514498?s=20&t=2bhKwsZIOlI8xJV_mIVvYg
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Aug 20, 2022 20:43
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Atrocious Joe posted:https://twitter.com/notXiangyu/status/1560873476625514498?s=20&t=2bhKwsZIOlI8xJV_mIVvYg I just saw that. As I said if more comes out I’ll say he is a creep. Also can you explain to me how telling people you plan to destroy their homeland feeling patriotic to it is like nazism. You know an ideology that said murder millions in expansionist wars is a way to get the workers on your side.
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Aug 20, 2022 20:45
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Crowsbeak posted:Lol. Hitlerite to you means defending Comrade Ortega. Also look a medium post I just saw needs more to it. It could be something but then after me too I need more then just a medium post. I need people to come forward. As in faces. If they do then it is true. If they don’t. Well MeToo taught me to be cautious of just a medium post. Also lol at Ben being such a sheep dog for democrats. But in the end he has never ever wanted to win just be a good junior democrat. Which of course is actually the real agenda of those who say “let’s unite the workers by promising to destroy their home country”. 
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Aug 20, 2022 20:46
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Crowsbeak posted:Benny as always being the good Demon Rat sheepdog. https://mobile.twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1561035513057927168 A revolution will inherently destroy one nation-state and replace it with another. The Russian revolution didn't wave the flag of the Romanovs around trying to pick up support from reactionaries, they waved the flag of the proletariat in order to organise the proletariat. Caleb just really comes off as a LARPer trying to find a shortcut to organising people
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Aug 20, 2022 20:50
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Crowsbeak shut the gently caress up.
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Aug 20, 2022 20:53
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