(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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irl? gently caress, I don't even like talking to people online anymore
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Aug 19, 2022 00:06
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 13:31 |
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Halloween Jack posted:Juche is better understood as a propaganda campaign than as a real philosophical framework. It was designed to establish Kim Il Sung's credentials as a thinker on par with Lenin and Mao, appeal to potential left-allies in the West, and appeal to potential allies in the Non-Aligned Movement. Its ostensible contributions to socialist thought, like "man is the master of everything and decides everything" and applying theory to local conditions, is extremely rudimentary stuff. Weren’t the original texts written by a Japanese anarchist? O_o
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Aug 19, 2022 00:11
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Aug 19, 2022 00:14
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croup coughfield posted:i think the most important thing we can do as socialists in the imperial core is sit in arrogant judgement of socialist nations and their ideologies. also, we should spent the rest of our time bitching about other tendencies Juche texts typically have very little substance. What substance is there is mostly just obvious truth, since they're recounting Japanese and American war crimes and taking credit for what the North Korean people built under appalling conditions after having their civilization basically leveled. AnimeIsTrash posted:Weren’t the original texts written by a Japanese anarchist? O_o I'm getting most of this from Myers, and I'm sure plenty of people ITT are critical of him for various reasons, but I don't know of any other English-language sources that go as deep into the origins of Juche as he does. Halloween Jack has issued a correction as of 00:34 on Aug 19, 2022 |
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Aug 19, 2022 00:32
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a communist party: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZhB6cLabw8
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Aug 19, 2022 02:09
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Halloween Jack posted:The intellectual richness of Juche as a theory that can be described in words is quite a different matter from the legitimacy of the DPRK's anti-imperial struggle. Juche is totally "legitimate" as a tool to highlight NATO/UN war crimes and baffle chauvinist Westerners who will project some imagined Confucianism onto whatever they don't understand. i dont care about your opinion.
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Aug 19, 2022 03:43
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croup coughfield posted:also, we should spent the rest of our time bitching about other tendencies no tendency but the tendency of the rate of profit to fall
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Aug 19, 2022 07:43
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croup coughfield posted:i think the most important thing we can do as socialists in the imperial core is sit in arrogant judgement of socialist nations and their ideologies. also, we should spent the rest of our time bitching about other tendencies
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Aug 19, 2022 07:51
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croup coughfield posted:i dont care about your opinion. HJ is a good dude but that's a stupid as poo poo post I'd know because I've made a few some even itt
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Aug 19, 2022 07:52
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Aeolius posted:no tendency but the tendency of the rate of profit to fall
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Aug 19, 2022 08:21
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only postmodern neo marxism has gotten results in the last decade gay people? we invented them. trans people? it spreads via the fluorinated drinking water. donald trump? deep cover agent infiltrating and destroying the us government
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Aug 19, 2022 17:13
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In Training posted:There's also a lot of avant-garde artists who were dedicated anti-communists, I think the individualism of outsider art is a siren song for reactionaries of many stripes. This is due in no small part to direct CIA funding of basically any avant guard artist who wasn't explicitly pro Soviet
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Aug 20, 2022 02:35
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bring back capital chat! how can the salient feature of a token of value be that it itself is not a commodity, (ie., one does not exactly sell dollars, one sells things for dollars) square with the brute fact that the primary exchange value for the world is the petrodollar. something that is simultaneously a commodity and the exchange value of that commodity. answer that, marx smarties!
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Aug 20, 2022 04:12
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The Voice of Labor posted:bring back capital chat! well marx lays out his value theory in terms of gold, which is in fact a commodity with value. i think the idea is that monetary economies will generally develop around whatever commodity makes the most sense to use as a generic store of value (something imperishible, divisible, etc) and actually valueless-in-themselves tokens leap off that springboard. the less there's a central power able to back tokens with force, the more people are going to use an actual commodity rather than a symbol of one as money
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Aug 20, 2022 04:25
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Mr. Lobe posted:There's no excuse for not at least trying to organize in some capacity, not even lack of talent or probable personal impact. Why even bother being a Marxist if all you're going to do with it is be alone and "correct" in your room, if you're that much of a nihilist you might as well just be apolitical. It'd probably be personally healthier im an apolitical marxist
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Aug 20, 2022 04:34
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The Voice of Labor posted:bring back capital chat! petrodollar just means that the price of oil is denominated in dollars which is particularly advantageous because the saudis turn around and invest those dollars in us treasuries. so the cycle would be C - M - M’
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Aug 20, 2022 04:54
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The Voice of Labor posted:bring back capital chat! Also, at the time, currencies were backed by a commodity, so they were effectively coupons for some weight of precious metals in most cases. That said, people do buy and sell currency today when they are no longer backed by anything. If this means they are commodities in and of themselves I don't know.
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Aug 20, 2022 16:43
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Ferrinus posted:well marx lays out his value theory in terms of gold, which is in fact a commodity with value. i think the idea is that monetary economies will generally develop around whatever commodity makes the most sense to use as a generic store of value (something imperishible, divisible, etc) and actually valueless-in-themselves tokens leap off that springboard. the less there's a central power able to back tokens with force, the more people are going to use an actual commodity rather than a symbol of one as money gold isn't easily divisible though, a point that marx brings up. without knowing anything about pre-industrial bullion mining i suspect the difficulty of extracting it kept its value both mostly constant and high whereas other commodities fluctuated and declined in value too much to be useful. although i'm not sure how cowry shells, something else i know little about, would square with this considering the low value of an individual shell making large transactions a pain in the rear end i'd imagine
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Aug 20, 2022 16:48
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also to further expand on the petrodollar, the saudis accept payment for oil in dollars instead of riyals. hence the name, if you want petroleum you gotta have dollars* *for now 
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Aug 20, 2022 16:53
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Raskolnikov38 posted:gold isn't easily divisible though, a point that marx brings up. without knowing anything about pre-industrial bullion mining i suspect the difficulty of extracting it kept its value both mostly constant and high whereas other commodities fluctuated and declined in value too much to be useful. although i'm not sure how cowry shells, something else i know little about, would square with this considering the low value of an individual shell making large transactions a pain in the rear end i'd imagine gold is divisible into aliquot parts and also capable of being fused back together or otherwise worked in a basically non-destructive fashion. marx definitely brings this up as one reason it gets used as the universal equivalent at some stage of market development
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Aug 20, 2022 20:18
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Raskolnikov38 posted:gold isn't easily divisible though, a point that marx brings up. without knowing anything about pre-industrial bullion mining i suspect the difficulty of extracting it kept its value both mostly constant and high whereas other commodities fluctuated and declined in value too much to be useful. although i'm not sure how cowry shells, something else i know little about, would square with this considering the low value of an individual shell making large transactions a pain in the rear end i'd imagine Debt the First 5,000 Years is good for this.
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Aug 20, 2022 20:34
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Ferrinus posted:gold is divisible into aliquot parts and also capable of being fused back together or otherwise worked in a basically non-destructive fashion. marx definitely brings this up as one reason it gets used as the universal equivalent at some stage of market development yeah but he has a section on how stupid it would be shave miligrams of gold off a bar to pay for a soda hence the emergence of paper money
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Aug 20, 2022 20:37
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what's the correct marxist take on drug use
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Aug 20, 2022 20:42
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Raskolnikov38 posted:yeah but he has a section on how stupid it would be shave miligrams of gold off a bar to pay for a soda hence the emergence of paper money that would rule, we should do it
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Aug 20, 2022 20:57
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Raskolnikov38 posted:yeah but he has a section on how stupid it would be shave miligrams of gold off a bar to pay for a soda hence the emergence of paper money yeah absolutely. the drawback of paper money of course is that you need some higher power to force people to actually accept it as payment, perhaps by demanding taxes be paid in it at the end of every year. so you'll get money-as-a-distinct-commodity insofar as people are trading with each other who can't trust that they'll be living in the same social context a week later, and you'll get the use of much more convenient money-as-an-abstract-token insofar as people are stuck with each other and will be held to account for reneging on debts
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Aug 20, 2022 21:19
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tokin opposition posted:what's the correct marxist take on drug use Do an eight-ball before reading capital
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Aug 20, 2022 21:58
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War and Pieces posted:A large transaction of Cowry shells would be done by working them into a wedding dress or a warriors regalia, at that point they were like a social currency but this use backed up the day to day use because you're always trying to get enough shells to make a wedding dress for your daughter. except that brings up the division between wages and currency and blood debts. a symbolic currency that is used to assuage for slights that have a value transcending monetary compensation raises more questions than it answers in this context
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Aug 20, 2022 23:56
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Halloween Jack posted:The intellectual richness of Juche as a theory that can be described in words is quite a different matter from the legitimacy of the DPRK's anti-imperial struggle. Juche is totally "legitimate" as a tool to highlight NATO/UN war crimes and baffle chauvinist Westerners who will project some imagined Confucianism onto whatever they don't understand. br myers mistranslated the korean word for "nation" as "race" and used that to inform his entire thesis of the dprk. many, many experts on the topic with far more experience and study have heavily criticized his work for this and several other reasons. he should not be taken seriously by anyone, and i look forward to you realizing this in 1-2 years the same way brutalistmcd did. Kim Jong Il’s Magic Kingdom https://twitter.com/TimothyS/status/949860698594725888?s=20&t=EMd99ZZBWBEoOTaHB1tYiA (Dis)Orienting North Korea <--- plug this into sci-hub R. Guyovich has issued a correction as of 00:33 on Aug 21, 2022 |
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Aug 21, 2022 00:20
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How does Bradley K. Martin's Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader: North Korea and the Kim Dynasty hold up? I read it back before Kim Jong-Il died and mostly remember it for the bits and pieces of Kim Jong-Un's life in boarding school. He wasn't supposed to be the successor at the time so he didn't get much treatment as I recall.
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Aug 21, 2022 00:57
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Azathoth posted:How does Bradley K. Martin's Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader: North Korea and the Kim Dynasty hold up? I read it back before Kim Jong-Il died and mostly remember it for the bits and pieces of Kim Jong-Un's life in boarding school. He wasn't supposed to be the successor at the time so he didn't get much treatment as I recall. the author works for Asia Times so i'm guessing it's pure propaganda
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Aug 21, 2022 01:06
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Azathoth posted:How does Bradley K. Martin's Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader: North Korea and the Kim Dynasty hold up? I read it back before Kim Jong-Il died and mostly remember it for the bits and pieces of Kim Jong-Un's life in boarding school. He wasn't supposed to be the successor at the time so he didn't get much treatment as I recall. If you're looking for good authors Suzy Kim and Bruce Cumings's various works have been enlightening.
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Aug 21, 2022 01:18
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AnimeIsTrash posted:If you're looking for good authors Suzy Kim and Bruce Cumings's various works have been enlightening. good to know. i haven't read anything about korea since i was deep in my liberalism so i appreciate good recommendations to uh ... sweat the propaganda out
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Aug 21, 2022 01:49
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this one is good https://www.barakabooks.com/catalogue/patriots-traitors-and-empires/
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Aug 21, 2022 02:00
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tokin opposition posted:what's the correct marxist take on drug use the man himself didn't really write much about them one way or the other
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Aug 21, 2022 02:58
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Opium is also the opium of the masses
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Aug 21, 2022 03:11
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Lmao every pseudo-communist reactionary on twitter is mourning Darya Dugin and sending condolences to her father accompanied with "he has some good points actually" In real life organizing I will now easily weed out weirdos by asking "so what do you think about Alexander Dugin and the Nazbols?"
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Aug 21, 2022 07:25
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I think that nazbols is a funny word.
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Aug 21, 2022 08:09
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gradenko_2000 posted:Opium is also the opium of the masses i've read that quote is extremely widely misunderstood due to different period perceptions of opioids, marx wasn't saying something nice about religion but it was closer to saying "religion is the painkiller of the masses" rather than "religion is the heroin of the masses" - a functional medicine that has a useful purpose with negative side effects. is that accurate?
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Aug 21, 2022 08:50
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CoolCab posted:i've read that quote is extremely widely misunderstood due to different period perceptions of opioids, marx wasn't saying something nice about religion but it was closer to saying "religion is the painkiller of the masses" rather than "religion is the heroin of the masses" - a functional medicine that has a useful purpose with negative side effects. is that accurate? I was being shitposty but yes I generally agree with your sentiment. Another thing I will contribute is that from the section on religion in the ABC of Communism, atheism or anti-religiosity isn't really regarded as something to pursue or imbibe on a personal / small-organizational basis prior to the revolution, but rather something to implement (and with some restraint) once the communists have the reins of power.
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Aug 21, 2022 09:39
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 13:31 |
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CoolCab posted:i've read that quote is extremely widely misunderstood due to different period perceptions of opioids, marx wasn't saying something nice about religion but it was closer to saying "religion is the painkiller of the masses" rather than "religion is the heroin of the masses" - a functional medicine that has a useful purpose with negative side effects. is that accurate? If you read the full quote instead of the shortened paraphrasing, it seems pretty clear that your interpretation is correct: Karl Marx in 1843 posted:The foundation of irreligious criticism is: Man makes religion, religion does not make man. Religion is, indeed, the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet won through to himself, or has already lost himself again. But man is no abstract being squatting outside the world. Man is the world of man – state, society. This state and this society produce religion, which is an inverted consciousness of the world, because they are an inverted world. Religion is the general theory of this world, its encyclopaedic compendium, its logic in popular form, its spiritual point d’honneur, its enthusiasm, its moral sanction, its solemn complement, and its universal basis of consolation and justification. It is the fantastic realization of the human essence since the human essence has not acquired any true reality. The struggle against religion is, therefore, indirectly the struggle against that world whose spiritual aroma is religion. I'm not an expert on this but the timing makes me think this was written with specific reference to the cultural image of opium around the time of the First Opium War (1839-1842). I think you're right that opium was the most effective painkiller in the world at the time, but it was also highly addictive and (although I'm less certain about this for the early 19th century, I'm pretty certain on it for the late 19th) the cultural image surrounding it wasn't medical use as a painkiller but recreational use by addicts in "opium dens". When the Opium War began in 1840, for example, there was some outcry that the British were going to war to preserve their right to deal addictive narcotics to Chinese people when those same drugs were banned in Britain itself (the British government got around this, and narrowly won a Parliamentary vote intended to stop the war, by framing it as necessary to protect national honour and free trade, while also making the argument that they were only meeting Chinese consumers' demand for narcotics rather than creating that demand by importing massive amounts of opium to China). Marx also wasn't the only person to use this specific metaphor around that time. Three years earlier, Heinrich Heine wrote: Heinrich Heine, 1840 posted:Welcome be a religion that pours into the bitter chalice of the suffering human species some sweet, soporific drops of spiritual opium, some drops of love, hope and faith. With that cultural and historical context, it seems to me that in the full passage Marx is saying that religion is a painkiller for the legitimate troubles of the world, but also that it's an addictive and numbing one that offers false hope, and the way to solve that problem isn't to get rid of religion but to get rid of the suffering that makes people desperate for even illusory, transitive, and addictive relief.
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Aug 21, 2022 13:23
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