|
MikeJF posted:The Pakleds are stupid in a lot of conventional ways (they fell for the crimson force field at face value after all), the point was that they know it and they know it makes people underestimate them and they're also extremely cunning and take advantage of it. Which Lower Decks definitely got with the way that they developed into a dangerous force and are driving around huge heavily-armed ships made of dozens of victims. I prefer to think of it that the Pakleds actually scammed that Klingon captain out of all those weapons he provided, by leading him to believe that they'd do a lot more against the Federation than they actually intended to.
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2022 19:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 18:07 |
|
|
The Pakled spy in Lower Decks successfully uses "I got lost going to the bathroom" to excuse slipping away & going around the ship unescorted.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2022 19:16
|
|
|
I've always felt like the Vulcans are kind of inconsistent when it comes to their xenophobia. We know that Spock, as half human and half Vulcan, is basically treated like a freak show on Vulcan most of the time. We also see on Enterprise how the Vulcans have been in an on-and-off conflict with the Andorians and to a lesser extent, the Tellarites. But they also helped humanity out for something like almost a century before the start of Enterprise so they're clearly not THAT xenophobic. At least not on the level of another species like the Romulans or the Tholians.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2022 19:17
|
|
|
I think they're less xenophobic, and more smug racist.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2022 19:19
|
|
|
Vulcan response: "Vulcans cannot be xenophobic. Being 'xenohobic' would imply Vulcans have a fearful emotional reaction towards other species. I would ask you to, as the humans say, 'do better', when it comes to such ignorant statements."
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2022 19:25
|
|
|
The General posted:I think they're less xenophobic, and more smug racist. i agree; a lot of vulcans are super racist imo feels like half of star trek aliens seem that way
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2022 20:08
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I've always felt like the Vulcans are kind of inconsistent when it comes to their xenophobia. We know that Spock, as half human and half Vulcan, is basically treated like a freak show on Vulcan most of the time. We also see on Enterprise how the Vulcans have been in an on-and-off conflict with the Andorians and to a lesser extent, the Tellarites. But they also helped humanity out for something like almost a century before the start of Enterprise so they're clearly not THAT xenophobic. At least not on the level of another species like the Romulans or the Tholians. when Vulcans discovered us humans had just survived a nuclear war against themselves and discovered faster than light travel, exactly mirroring Vulcan history. they adopted us like the adorable golden retrievers we are. also the only two space people without forehead krinckels
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2022 21:47
|
|
|
They got hosed up ears tho.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2022 23:13
|
|
|
lol vulcan ears would be cool if you got to hear better
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2022 23:33
|
|
|
in a way vulvans are just space elfs, like they have pointed ears and live long just a thought
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 00:44
|
|
|
Well yeah, Vulcans are space elves and Romulans are dark elves and Klingons are orcs and Ferengi are goblin and Cardassians are lizardfolk blah blah blah
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 00:53
|
|
|
appropriatemetaphor posted:vulvans If that's not what they call vulcans in the various Trek porn parodies then I'm deeply disappointed in them
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 00:57
|
|
|
Just rewatched Star Trek 2 The Wrath of Khan , and drat is that ending so good.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 01:53
|
|
|
The General posted:I think they're less xenophobic, and more smug racist. yeah they're  -style bigots powered by logic. they know, empirically, provably, that all vulcans are raised from birth to be logical at all times, and purge all emotion. they are therefore incapable of acting irrationally. therefore all vulcans are safe (and therefore good) because they are all absolutely rational, while non-vulcans are not, and therefore we cannot be sure non-vulcans are not unsafe, so it's logical to expect them to be irrational and unsafe. of course the (f|ph)allacy is that rational people are safe and good. but essentially they're mostly xenophobic cultists that can objectively prove their god is real and everyone agrees exists, and whose blood sacrifices are perfectly understandable to all.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 02:27
|
|
|
What was the first species the Vulcans encountered once they developed warp? If it was the Klingons or a similarly aggressive culture, their dickery/caution with developing species might be justified (in the ENT era anyways, by TNG/DS9 they're just regular smug pricks)
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 02:43
|
|
|
This is some speculation on my part, but was Vulcan supposed to be the closest or even only (major) warp-capable civilization to Earth by the time of First Contact? I sort of have an assumption in my head that Vulcan considered a huge area of space surrounding Vulcan as their domain by virtue of having that status. It could also be used to explain the seemingly Vulcan patrols and surveys of Earth and near-Earth space (First Contact, Carbon Creek, Picard S2, more?) I say all this to throw this out there: Is it possible that Vulcans had viewed some of the space that included the Earth solar system as part of their domain prior to First Contact? As a non-warp culture, it wasn't as if humans would ever even know the Vulcans even existed. The initial interest in a warp signature coming from Earth might have had a lot to do with them being concerned that it was some incursion into Vulcan patrolled space by an unknown warp-capable species rather than humans. Keeping in mind, the Vulcans based on their own cultural development and any intel they could have had on Earth by that tie likely would have thought humans were centuries from ever building warp tech on their own.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 02:52
|
|
|
DJ_Mindboggler posted:What was the first species the Vulcans encountered once they developed warp? If it was the Klingons or a similarly aggressive culture, their dickery/caution with developing species might be justified (in the ENT era anyways, by TNG/DS9 they're just regular smug pricks) The Vulcans in Enterprise are heavily shaped by several centuries of cold war with the Andorians, after their initially promising contact with them as they were developing went downhill fast. It's also stated outright later on in Enterprise that the Vulcans are extremely freaked out by the speed at which humans are developing, because we're outpacing what everyone else did and they have no idea what to expect from us as a result. They see a lot of parallels with themselves pre-logic-era and that scares them. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Aug 22, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 02:57
|
|
|
MikeJF posted:The Vulcans in Enterprise are heavily shaped by several centuries of cold war with the Andorians, after their initially promising contact with them as they were developing went downhill fast. Thanks, that's all pretty reasonable. I've only ever watched the first two seasons of ENT once, so it's definitely my least understood of the "older" Treks.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 03:05
|
|
|
Just started watching Star Trek colon Prodigy and so far I’m really liking this new Star Wars show
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 03:11
|
|
|
The Vulcans of the Enterprise era had also abandoned or twisted the original teachings of Surak, possibly because of clandestine Romulan influence, and had gotten imperialistic and aggressive.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 03:13
|
|
|
Foxfire_ posted:The Pakled spy in Lower Decks successfully uses "I got lost going to the bathroom" to excuse slipping away & going around the ship unescorted. Don’t they know since khan told not fall for that? Lol,
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 03:20
|
|
|
housefullofgarbage posted:Just started watching Star Trek colon Prodigy and so far I’m really liking this new Star Wars show The whole point of Prodigy is to take a bunch of Star Wars characters from Star Wars land and show them why Star Trek is better.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 03:31
|
|
|
I just binged Lower Decks and wow that was a lot of fun. I really liked how the Vulcans use Starfleet as a "school for troubled children" and as a punishment.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 03:36
|
|
|
Starfleet is and always has been a place to put problematic people so they're out of polite society, for humans, Vulcans, and everyone else. The fact that it returns dividends in bizarre theoretical science, weird alien gods, and other esoterica, is just icing on the cake. Sure, there's a decent chance of space madness, or being melted through a bulkhead, or killed by the physical manifestation of hate, but frankly they wouldn't have had happy lives on the home worlds either.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 03:49
|
|
|
Does Earth also maintain a sovereign fleet or are they solely reliant on Starfleet?
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 03:54
|
|
|
The Federation is literally run by try hard geniuses who were like " Nah gently caress that I wanna work every day and have duties". Its basically the stopping off place for all the people who would have normally joined the military if the military did exist in the Federation time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 03:55
|
|
|
lots of weird takes in this thread tonight. not every ship in the fleet is basically a warship that pretends otherwise like starfleet seems an easy way to put on a blue uniform and go look at nebulae or w/e
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 04:03
|
|
|
Nah, it's all space weirds. Even the ones doing two year tours of binary stars are out there getting freaky with alien ghosts and poo poo. Every once in a while it goes bad and the Enterprise happens across their wreck.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 04:18
|
|
|
worth it
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 04:19
|
|
|
chaosbreather posted:yeah they're I think it's more like, lets say you live your entire life in a monastery where there's a vow of silence, so all you're used to is whispers and sign language. Then you go leave, and you're in a place where everybody is screaming all the time. Obviously, you're going to be uncomfortable and put off. I think that's the way it is with Vulcans, except instead of noise, it's emotion. I think that's Vulcan seem so uncomfortable around non-Vulcans.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 04:29
|
|
|
mediaphage posted:i agree; a lot of vulcans are super racist imo Including humans, tbh. Humans think themselves superior to Ferengi for sure. Super smug.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 04:38
|
|
|
that's why humans and vulcans get along so good. humans think they're better than vulcans, and vulcans think they're better than humans
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 05:02
|
|
|
chaosbreather posted:and purge all emotion. Not all vulcans sought the Kolinahr. Nearly all vulcans constantly think things through logically and strive to not let their emotions control them. Most of them are at least outwardly able to do this, though of course the shows have lots of examples of Vulcans acting on emotion but covering it with logic. The Kolinahr was the actual purging of emotion. Ironically it's most akin to a religious calling, very emotional.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 05:34
|
|
|
Mx. posted:that's why humans and vulcans get along so good. humans think they're better than vulcans, and vulcans think they're better than humans I think this may just be the answer
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 06:03
|
|
|
Facebook Aunt posted:Including humans, tbh. Humans think themselves superior to Ferengi for sure. Super smug. oh yeah but i just accept that humans are racist because well
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 06:24
|
|
|
mediaphage posted:lots of weird takes in this thread tonight. not every ship in the fleet is basically a warship that pretends otherwise No, they absolutely are. That's literally Starfleet's whole deal pre-Dominion War. They are so arrogantly confident in their ability to protect themselves to the point their families are often on their larger ships out alone in deep space, and have weaponry that can devastate planets from orbit at a whim even on their most basic large-scale vessels. It's only when the Dominion start turning up that they finally come up against a real threat that gives them pause, and even the Cardassians got their noses bloodied enough by Starfleet's not-a-warship ships that putting up a DMZ and truce with the Federation (even if just to buy them time) was a viable after a decade-plus of fighting with no real results.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 07:12
|
|
|
nah i’m not saying that a lot of starfleet isn’t like that i just mean there’s lots of opportunities to just do dumb boring poo poo. star trek seems so insane because we watch half of the worst poo poo screenrant suggests 5-10k ships in the fleet so
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 11:32
|
|
|
that is an absolutely miniscule number of ships for hundreds of inhabited worlds. granted, a large percentage of those worlds are insufferable hipster colonies that consist of a single village of 30 people as the sole inhabitants of an entire planet.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 11:52
|
|
|
gimme the GOD drat candy posted:that is an absolutely miniscule number of ships for hundreds of inhabited worlds. granted, a large percentage of those worlds are insufferable hipster colonies that consist of a single village of 30 people as the sole inhabitants of an entire planet. i sort of went through the same thought process.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 12:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 4, 2024 18:07 |
|
|
actually here’s a question - are there any examples in star trek of like really successful extra solar colonies?
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 12:04
|
|