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BWV posted:Am I a massive nerd/idiot for thinking that the whole "we need to name a new successor now" bit seemed a bit rushed/forced? Like even if the king was delusional that his child would both be a boy and survive, it's not like there wasn't already a succession crisis in play. His child not surviving was a very possible outcome (one his council should not be totally surprised by) and I don't get how it actually happening changes the situation. I guess the queen dying means he needs more time to find a new wife or maybe he gains more faith in his daughter and less in his brother, but the whole vibe of the succession becoming super time sensitive felt a bit off. I don't know to what degree they expected Viserys to make a big public deal out of finalizing the succession, though -- I get the impression that what they wanted was for Daemon to get pushed aside and Rhaenyra slotted in pending Viserys taking another wife and hopefully fathering a son.
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Aug 22, 2022 18:42
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BWV posted:Am I a massive nerd/idiot for thinking that the whole "we need to name a new successor now" bit seemed a bit rushed/forced? Like even if the king was delusional that his child would both be a boy and survive, it's not like there wasn't already a succession crisis in play. His child not surviving was a very possible outcome (one his council should not be totally surprised by) and I don't get how it actually happening changes the situation. I guess the queen dying means he needs more time to find a new wife or maybe he gains more faith in his daughter and less in his brother, but the whole vibe of the succession becoming super time sensitive felt a bit off. Well it seemed relatively squared away until the events in this episode, they're kinda resolved to Daemon being the king with the distant hope that the son gets born and survives, they all hope out loud it'll happen but internally probably doubt it. Then when the son dies, the council are like "well, I guess we have to poo poo or get off the pot now then?" and have the hasty meeting that doesn't go particularly well where they poo poo talk Daemon. Then Hightowers report of what Daemon said in the brothel sets the cat amongst the pigeons and makes the king change his choice of heir. Like others I kind of expected that to be like, disputed by Daemon since he already poo poo talked Hightower as trying to grasp for all the power he could and for there to be some ambiguity as to whether Hightower had lied to manipulate stuff or not. As it is I guess Daemon either did say it or didn't really care to argue against it. Either way, yeah it is supposed to be kinda hasty because they'd been putting off any big changes cause they like the king being where he is and want more time to try and figure out some way to not have Daemon take over. thebardyspoon fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Aug 22, 2022 |
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Aug 22, 2022 18:42
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Communist Q posted:He has some sort of unknown illness as evidenced by the wounds that won't heal, and he keeps cutting his likely diabetic rear end on the throne. There's a very real possibility he could die soon from it.` Isn't it just tetanus? Or whatever the fantasy name they have for it is. He got it from getting stabbed by his rusty metal chair. Rust Pox
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Aug 22, 2022 18:43
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I wonder if cauterizing it will even work on a Targaryen?
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Aug 22, 2022 18:44
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Thanks for these answers. The combination of Hightower seeing this as an opportunity and the king being easily swayed in a time of distress checks out. Combined with his brother getting into trouble and acting brutally is enough to spur him to change. Cased closed
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Aug 22, 2022 18:45
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Vintersorg posted:I wonder if cauterizing it will even work on a Targaryen? Haha, I thought the same thing
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Aug 22, 2022 19:07
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Huh, I wasn't expecting to like this at all but I'm fully on board. Can't wait to see how it all shakes out. My only worry really is that the cast aren't very varied at the moment - Targaryans tend to be pretty one-note and the other characters we've seen so far don't have any of the variety or interesting characteristics that GoT's cast had. It's basically just royals and the small council at this point. Complete with Charles Dance, Donald Sumpter and Conleth Hill impersonators.
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Aug 22, 2022 19:20
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CapnAndy posted:I've read two separate reviews now saying that Viserys chooses between the lives of his wife and child in the birth scene, and... jesus, why is watching TV shows and listening to the words that people say out loud apparently too hard for some TV reviewers? The maesters flat out loving tell him that Aemma is dead no matter what and his choices are to either consent to them killing Aemma and saving the baby, or to pray for a miracle because right now they're both gonna die. The maester says something along the lines of doing nothing would leave her life "in the hands of the gods" which I think is meant to be purposefully vague. My own interpretation is that he's saying there's still a chance she could live (other wise he would just say there's absolutely no way she can survive) but someone else could easily lean the other way, and that this was the diplomatic way of saying she would never make it. That's good writing because the maester is going to want to retain some plausible deniability in that scenario. And it leaves it up to the viewer to decide what he really meant. I think it's pretty clear that Viserys valued the life of the child as much or more than his wife's, and that his choice was a foregone conclusion.
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Aug 22, 2022 19:23
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thebardyspoon posted:Well it seemed relatively squared away until the events in this episode, they're kinda resolved to Daemon being the king with the distant hope that the son gets born and survives, they all hope out loud it'll happen but internally probably doubt it. Then when the son dies, the council are like "well, I guess we have to poo poo or get off the pot now then?" and have the hasty meeting that doesn't go particularly well where they poo poo talk Daemon. Then Hightowers report of what Daemon said in the brothel sets the cat amongst the pigeons and makes the king change his choice of heir. Yeah and they all just IMMEDIATELY jump on the Rhaenyra bandwagon. You can sense their collective relief at having the lunatic Daemon ostensibly out of the picture
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Aug 22, 2022 19:23
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thebardyspoon posted:Well it seemed relatively squared away until the events in this episode, they're kinda resolved to Daemon being the king with the distant hope that the son gets born and survives, they all hope out loud it'll happen but internally probably doubt it. Then when the son dies, the council are like "well, I guess we have to poo poo or get off the pot now then?" and have the hasty meeting that doesn't go particularly well where they poo poo talk Daemon. Then Hightowers report of what Daemon said in the brothel sets the cat amongst the pigeons and makes the king change his choice of heir. i suspect daemon knows he can't just come back when his bro dies or is old and force him him to make him king or marry or some poo poo.
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Aug 22, 2022 19:31
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BWV posted:Am I a massive nerd/idiot for thinking that the whole "we need to name a new successor now" bit seemed a bit rushed/forced? Like even if the king was delusional that his child would both be a boy and survive, it's not like there wasn't already a succession crisis in play. His child not surviving was a very possible outcome (one his council should not be totally surprised by) and I don't get how it actually happening changes the situation. I guess the queen dying means he needs more time to find a new wife or maybe he gains more faith in his daughter and less in his brother, but the whole vibe of the succession becoming super time sensitive felt a bit off. I think the urgency is exacerbated by Daemon being a really lovely heir that a bunch of nobles/councillors explicitly do not want to reign. Either they name him successor right now and spend the next few years cajoling noble support for him so there isn't a rebellion against him when the King dies, or they name somebody else and make it clear to Daemon he's not the heir and has no support, so he doesn't lead a rebellion after the King dies. If Daemon wasn't a piece of poo poo or the King had another viable brother, there may not be quite as much urgency. The fact that the next heir is female might also accelerate the process, since the implied agnatic preference for succession means there's more groundwork to be done to secure her rule.
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Aug 22, 2022 19:33
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did daemon and Queen Who Wasn't interact with each other? if so I missed it
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Aug 22, 2022 19:49
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Max posted:The implied reasoning with Hightower immediately sending his daughter to go comfort the king is that he is hoping to get an in with the king by making his daughter seem desirable now that the queen has passed. This wasn't a planned thing but he is savvy enough to know when to grab an opportunity when he sees one. Barring that, note that he is the one pushing to name a successor and how very much he does not want it to be Daemon. Dude doesn't like him and is trying to square things away with an heir he isn't threatened by. I get the feeling that Hightower is going to be the Littlefinger of this show. Obviously he's pimping his daughter out to be the next queen, but I think there's more. When the maesters find the baby is in breech, they go to him first rather than the king. The baby is last seen alive in the hands of a maester. The Hightowers have always had strong ties with the maesters and the Citadel, so it's possible he arranged for some tragedy to befall the babby. There's also the orgy scene were some background random calls for silence so Daemon can make his ill-advised speech, word of which immediately spreads to Otto Hightower. I'm hoping that he orchestrated that too, mostly because Littlefinger's intrigues were one of the best parts of GOT up until the writers lobotomized him in the final few seasons, and I'd like to see that same kind of nefarious scheming in this show.
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Aug 22, 2022 19:54
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CapnAndy posted:I don't know to what degree they expected Viserys to make a big public deal out of finalizing the succession, though -- I get the impression that what they wanted was for Daemon to get pushed aside and Rhaenyra slotted in pending Viserys taking another wife and hopefully fathering a son. He pretty much had to make a big public deal out of it because it goes against the precedent that made him king. So he's getting public oaths from everyone that they're cool with this even though it's obviously hypocritical.
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Aug 22, 2022 19:57
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The maester telling Hightower first I think was just "oh gently caress I have bad news to deliver, gonna tell the King's hand and friend and get the hell out of here instead of telling him the bad news directly." That part didn't surprise me too much.
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Aug 22, 2022 19:57
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Clyde Radcliffe posted:I get the feeling that Hightower is going to be the Littlefinger of this show. Obviously he's pimping his daughter out to be the next queen, but I think there's more. When the maesters find the baby is in breech, they go to him first rather than the king. The baby is last seen alive in the hands of a maester. The Hightowers have always had strong ties with the maesters and the Citadel, so it's possible he arranged for some tragedy to befall the babby. Ehhh it's possible - but I think him being told first was more 'everything goes through the Hand, who will decide what news is worthy of the King'.
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Aug 22, 2022 19:58
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Vintersorg posted:
I mean that I am aware of the plot of GRRM's story and (ASoIaF lore spoilers) Rhaenyra's story reads very similarly to Dany's with a few parts moved around. I really don't want to sit through a narrative that must, necessarily, follow those same contours.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:00
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Clyde Radcliffe posted:I get the feeling that Hightower is going to be the Littlefinger of this show. Obviously he's pimping his daughter out to be the next queen, but I think there's more. When the maesters find the baby is in breech, they go to him first rather than the king. The baby is last seen alive in the hands of a maester. The Hightowers have always had strong ties with the maesters and the Citadel, so it's possible he arranged for some tragedy to befall the babby. Would be a very risky plan. What if the king doesn't like his daughter? What if she can't produce an heir if he does like her? Orchestrating the baby's death also puts Daemon right in line for the throne. I don't think the maesters killed the baby. It was coughing and struggling right after its birth.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:02
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don't think hightower arranged a tragedy for the baby, but it is clear that he cares about the seven kingdoms and is using every card left in his hand to try and prevent matt smith from inheriting. that hand unfortunately includes his own daughter. QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Aug 22, 2022 |
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Aug 22, 2022 20:06
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PostNouveau posted:Would be a very risky plan. What if the king doesn't like his daughter? What if she can't produce an heir if he does like her? Orchestrating the baby's death also puts Daemon right in line for the throne. Yeah, I think putting his daughter out there was opportunism, not the continuation of a plan that also involved killing the royal heir. Alicent also appears quite competent herself, she seems to be knowledgeable of history and court politics and likely is more of a junior partner to her father than an out-and-out pawn.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:06
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Is it just me or are the wigs somehow worse than Season 1 Daenerys and Viserys from over a decade ago? Also the costuming.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:08
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https://twitter.com/DEADLINE/status/1561781474054918144 So later today/tomorrow HBO will be out with a PR confirming that HOT D was the "most watched premiere of all time" or w/e. Not terribly surprising.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:09
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Max posted:The maester telling Hightower first I think was just "oh gently caress I have bad news to deliver, gonna tell the King's hand and friend and get the hell out of here instead of telling him the bad news directly." That part didn't surprise me too much. It's probably this, but maesters in GOT weren't afraid to tell it like it is to their various kings and lords. They seem to have a protected status that allows them to speak with candour and sometimes brutal honesty. I was probably clutching a bit since I sort-of enjoyed the pilot but was hoping for a little bit more.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:12
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Clyde Radcliffe posted:I get the feeling that Hightower is going to be the Littlefinger of this show. I'd say he's more of a subtle Tywin Lannister, at least from what I can gather in the first episode. He prefers stability in the realm, but also takes any chance he can to elevate his family. And judging by his reaction when his eldest face planted in the tourney and what he asks his daughter to do, he seems to also view his children as just pieces on a game board. He's just, y'know, less assholish about it. Then again thats just from a single episode.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:12
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zoux posted:https://twitter.com/DEADLINE/status/1561781474054918144 It's sort of cheating saying it's a new premier when it's the successor of an already insanely popular show and has a guaranteed built in audience.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:13
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Jaxyon posted:Is it just me or are the wigs somehow worse than Season 1 Daenerys and Viserys from over a decade ago? They're pretty bad. I almost wish they'd gone with making the Valyrians have the silver or gold hair and violet eyes of the books. They're supposed to be these ethereal otherworldly looking people and I think that might have worked more than "normal looking people with really bad white hair" and covered up some wig sins.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:16
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Clyde Radcliffe posted:I get the feeling that Hightower is going to be the Littlefinger of this show. Obviously he's pimping his daughter out to be the next queen, but I think there's more. When the maesters find the baby is in breech, they go to him first rather than the king. The baby is last seen alive in the hands of a maester. The Hightowers have always had strong ties with the maesters and the Citadel, so it's possible he arranged for some tragedy to befall the babby. Eh, I don't necessarily think it's some sort of conspiracy. A breech baby in those times would likely be suffering from hypoxia and possibly meconium aspiration if the delivery took a long time, which it likely did considering it was a complicated birth. I don't see why he'd try to arrange a tragedy when he needs an heir to the throne to maintain his own power and position as Hand of the King. He likely just decided to pimp out his daughter out of opportunism rather than scheming to remove the heir apparent.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:17
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Jaxyon posted:Is it just me or are the wigs somehow worse than Season 1 Daenerys and Viserys from over a decade ago?
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Aug 22, 2022 20:17
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Communist Q posted:Eh, I don't necessarily think it's some sort of conspiracy. A breech baby in those times would likely be suffering from hypoxia and possibly meconium aspiration if the delivery took a long time, which it likely did considering it was a complicated birth. I don't see why he'd try to arrange a tragedy when he needs an heir to the throne to maintain his own power and position as Hand of the King. He likely just decided to pimp out his daughter out of opportunism rather than scheming to remove the heir apparent.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:34
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stev posted:It's sort of cheating saying it's a new premier when it's the successor of an already insanely popular show and has a guaranteed built in audience. Eyeballs is eyeballs A Buttery Pastry posted:They allude to this with the prostitute saying she can arrange for a silver-haired maiden. I believe the proper term in England is "solicitors".
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Aug 22, 2022 20:37
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stev posted:Huh, I wasn't expecting to like this at all but I'm fully on board. Can't wait to see how it all shakes out. Not giving a poo poo about the Targs in general was my biggest hesitation on watching. I like Viserys because he's some weak nerd of a king and pretty openly emotional as opposed to the rest of the targs.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:58
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CapnAndy posted:Honestly, even if the baby is a boy and it survives, marrying your daughter to the now-single king is a really good move. No guarantee that the kid lives long enough to inherit, and your worst case scenario is that you're the king's father-in-law, will get fucktons of royal favor, and your grandkids will all be rich and get valuable holdings and favorable marriages. Yeah, in the context of the political reality of Westeros I didn't read that move as particularly devious/immoral. You've got an unmarried King, you're an important noble of the realm with an unmarried daughter, it's kind of the thing to do. Viserys isn't presented as a madman or particularly cruel, it's not like being betrothed to Aerys II or Joffery or the like, and Alicent's marriage would have been arranged regardless.
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Aug 22, 2022 21:04
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Is it common in this Westeros era to have more than one wife? Seems like that’d be a thing for a king that hasn’t had a male heir in like 15 years.
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Aug 22, 2022 21:06
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Vegetable posted:Is it common in this Westeros era to have more than one wife? Seems like that’d be a thing for a king that hasn’t had a male heir in like 15 years. With the sole exception of Original Aegon and his two sister-wives, who got away with it via the expediencies of being married before they came to Westeros and converted to worship of the Seven, and by being dragon-riding conquerors who gave Oldtown the very stark choice of "put up with this or we make Harrenhal look like a weenie roast".
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Aug 22, 2022 21:09
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Vegetable posted:Is it common in this Westeros era to have more than one wife? Seems like that’d be a thing for a king that hasn’t had a male heir in like 15 years. Concubinage and other extramarital methods of heir production seem to vary by kingdom, as well as the relative status of bastards/legitimized bastards. The Targaeryans might have extra issues with this sort of thing if there's a precedent of all previous rulers of the dynasty being the result of consanguineous marriages. The son of a mistress might be acceptable for a lesser realm, but may have fatal issues of legitimacy on the Iron Throne. It's less about them being acknowledged as a legitimate Targaeryan, but more that their claim isn't necessarily stronger than a trueborn nephew (or brother, in the case of the show). DJ_Mindboggler fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Aug 22, 2022 |
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Aug 22, 2022 21:10
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stev posted:It's sort of cheating saying it's a new premier when it's the successor of an already insanely popular show and has a guaranteed built in audience. there was a real fear with how absolutely terrible GoT's last two seasons were that nobody was going to watch this. I had to basically drag my partner away from Cult of the Lamb to watch because of how bad the last entry in the property flopped.
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Aug 22, 2022 21:13
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zoux posted:What's even crazier is that they did this all the time irl from the 12th-16th centuries, and lots of heirs and lords died. Good, I desperately want this show to get finished.
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Aug 22, 2022 21:15
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I love that the king’s hobby is chiseling scale miniatures. He’s got the medieval version of someone’s model train system that they’ve built in their basement.
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Aug 22, 2022 21:16
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Ethiser posted:I love that the king’s hobby is chiseling scale miniatures. He’s got the medieval version of someone’s model train system that they’ve built in their basement. they call that finished miniature out in GoT right or am I thinking of something else
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Aug 22, 2022 21:19
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Asema posted:they call that finished miniature out in GoT right or am I thinking of something else
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Aug 22, 2022 21:20
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