Pryor on Fire posted:

Also you should stop eating seafood.

Microplastics posted:

https://www.universetoday.com/157156/satellites-are-tracking-rivers-of-garbage-flowing-across-the-oceans/

Satellites are Tracking Rivers of Garbage Flowing Across the Oceans

Mirthless posted:

Seems like a cope for somebody who doesn't want to have to commit time to developing practical skills

You know what I say to this, though, really?

At least if that happens, I'll have spent the last few years of my life during the fall of society working with my hands and taking care of animals instead of huddling with 30,000 starving people in a stadium converted into a refugee camp

Y'all may find the city comforting but it's only ever been a miserable place for me to be and the idea of staying there as things get progressively worse seems worse than suicidal to me

I find the society built for ourselves to be empty and unfulfilling when it is functioning as intended. You will have to excuse me for not wanting to linger in the ruins of the civilization we have built while it burns down around us.

Shifty Nipples posted:

I didn't ask to be on this ride I'm just hanging on the best I can

1glitch0 posted:

Pretty lucky that your personal tastes magically perfectly align with the best possible thing to do for the collapse. Dodged a bullet there!

Fell Mood posted:

There are no skills that will let you survive a complete collapse, ie the water and electricity are turned off and industrial farming stops. There are 4 reasons for this.

Assume the fossil fuel stops flowing.

1. Learning how to farm like it's 1800 requires a lot more than just "having skills" It's a knowledge base that very very few people still keep up with, and you have to get it right quickly before you starve. This isn't like growing a garden.

2. None of the infrastructure is there. The tools for farming by human or animal power no longer exist in quantity. The electricity to power the machines to make them won't exist. Where are the tens of thousands of horses and donkeys and oxen we would need? What about the seeds? Hell can you even get from the city to a field on the outskirts without a car? With no horse to ride?

Even a simple way of life requires pre-existing infrastructure that has built on itself over centuries.
If you were an expert on farming and time traveled to 1820 and was given a free piece of land, there is a great deal already made available by society. Plows and horses would exist in high numbers and could be bought on credit. Today we would be starting from scratch. It would be like the Jamestown settlers starving before the native Americans saved them.

3. The environment is degraded. Even if your community could transition back into a low tech agrarian society before you all starved to death, crop failure would be common.

4. The environment is degraded. 300 years ago you could simply walk thru a forest in north America and pick up enough chestnuts, blue berries, muskadines, ect ect to survive. There would be deer and rabbits and Buffalo everywhere. Now when your crops fail you won't be feeding the community by hunting. That or you'll give everyone a prion disease.

There is no rebuilding from this. It is different from every other collapse that a society has suffered in history because there is no where to go. We cannot revert to a less organized society because we are destroying nature itself. Let's assume a worst case scenario. Humanity is set back 50,000 years to being isolated tribes of 50 to 60 people that either hunt or try to farm.

There are places that have seen continuous human habitation for millenia that will be too hot for that. We've collapsed the fish stocks. We've killed the large mammal populations. Even after human society is gone they may not recover due to the chemical pollution affecting fertility for centuries.

Let's talk Canada and Siberia. We'll just all move north where it's cooler, right? To a place that has never been farmed and has no topsoil. To the massive bogs of thawed permafrost where a human being can't walk, nevermind trying to get a donkey or tractor into the field. Where the natives have lost thier way of life because the seal, whale, crab, fish, populations are depleted.

Let's talk the Chernobyl exclusion zone. Nature recovered in 20 years right? It's called shifting baselines. That's what you think nature is like because you're never seen nature. How much animal biomass does the zone have? How many humans could that sustain if you didn't overhunt? How does seeing a few deer in the exclusion zone compare to native American stories about a herd of Buffalo millions strong where you just had to sit on the trail for 3 days and wait for the mass of animals to pass before you could continue? Spanish explorers wrote in thier logs about schools of sea turtles so thick it felt like the ship was running aground as they plowed thru.

We will not transition to a carbon neutral high tech society. We are in a capitalism fitness trap and it's almost too late.

We will not transition to a low tech agrarian society. We conceivably could with proper preparation and reorganizing of society, but we won't. And it may not be possible to rebuild into a low tech agrarian society after a sudden collapse. (Because we are altering the environment such that sufficient crops won't grow. )

We will flail about as we desperately try to keep things going. Canada and Northern Russia will be devastated as enormous effort is expended to make it suitable for large scale habitation. Thawed permafrost bogs will be drained and scraped away to try to find something solid to build on. Massive amounts of NatGas will be used to try to make enough fertilizer for what little dirt there is. The trees will be cut down for housing and the 10,000 lakes polluted. All while the mid latitudes experience giga death from heatwaves and crop failure.

We are hosed. And when the power is turned off and food and fuel stop being shipped to your little corner of the world, all your skills and resilient community's and whatnot just means you'll survive longer as you scavenge the corpse of society. I'm not saying that isn't worthwhile, I'm developing my own skills as well. But this isn't going to be Russia in the 90s or like a civil war in some war torn country. We are destroying the basic inputs human civilization must have to function.

Fell Mood posted:

Fell Mood posted:

Sushi The Kid posted:

I don't know about ground hogs, but a simple solution for deer that works for us, is using stakes or whatever you have and running fishing line between them and then hanging streamers. Foil or plastic works. Run the line about 4 or 5 feet up. Freaks em out.

1glitch0 posted:

Pretty lucky that your personal tastes magically perfectly align with the best possible thing to do for the collapse. Dodged a bullet there!

Fell Mood posted:

words

err posted:

the government will be passing out Quietus before true collapse occurs

err posted:

the government will be passing out Quietus before true collapse occurs

Cabbages and Kings posted:

sadly groundhogs are substantially smarter than deer and will attempt to burough. I've read 12" is the minimal depth at which they will reliably give

Dog Case posted:

Lol if your plan isn't to live in the woods eating mushrooms and hikers until amanitas or prions get you

Edit: or the woods burn down

CODChimera posted:

this is fine assuming you dont want to live through it, which is probably the correct choice? who knows

Fell Mood posted:

There are no skills that will let you survive a complete collapse, ie the water and electricity are turned off and industrial farming stops. There are 4 reasons for this.

Assume the fossil fuel stops flowing.

1. Learning how to farm like it's 1800 requires a lot more than just "having skills" It's a knowledge base that very very few people still keep up with, and you have to get it right quickly before you starve. This isn't like growing a garden.

2. None of the infrastructure is there. The tools for farming by human or animal power no longer exist in quantity. The electricity to power the machines to make them won't exist. Where are the tens of thousands of horses and donkeys and oxen we would need? What about the seeds? Hell can you even get from the city to a field on the outskirts without a car? With no horse to ride?

Even a simple way of life requires pre-existing infrastructure that has built on itself over centuries.
If you were an expert on farming and time traveled to 1820 and was given a free piece of land, there is a great deal already made available by society. Plows and horses would exist in high numbers and could be bought on credit. Today we would be starting from scratch. It would be like the Jamestown settlers starving before the native Americans saved them.

3. The environment is degraded. Even if your community could transition back into a low tech agrarian society before you all starved to death, crop failure would be common.

4. The environment is degraded. 300 years ago you could simply walk thru a forest in north America and pick up enough chestnuts, blue berries, muskadines, ect ect to survive. There would be deer and rabbits and Buffalo everywhere. Now when your crops fail you won't be feeding the community by hunting. That or you'll give everyone a prion disease.

There is no rebuilding from this. It is different from every other collapse that a society has suffered in history because there is no where to go. We cannot revert to a less organized society because we are destroying nature itself. Let's assume a worst case scenario. Humanity is set back 50,000 years to being isolated tribes of 50 to 60 people that either hunt or try to farm.

There are places that have seen continuous human habitation for millenia that will be too hot for that. We've collapsed the fish stocks. We've killed the large mammal populations. Even after human society is gone they may not recover due to the chemical pollution affecting fertility for centuries.

Let's talk Canada and Siberia. We'll just all move north where it's cooler, right? To a place that has never been farmed and has no topsoil. To the massive bogs of thawed permafrost where a human being can't walk, nevermind trying to get a donkey or tractor into the field. Where the natives have lost thier way of life because the seal, whale, crab, fish, populations are depleted.

Let's talk the Chernobyl exclusion zone. Nature recovered in 20 years right? It's called shifting baselines. That's what you think nature is like because you're never seen nature. How much animal biomass does the zone have? How many humans could that sustain if you didn't overhunt? How does seeing a few deer in the exclusion zone compare to native American stories about a herd of Buffalo millions strong where you just had to sit on the trail for 3 days and wait for the mass of animals to pass before you could continue? Spanish explorers wrote in thier logs about schools of sea turtles so thick it felt like the ship was running aground as they plowed thru.

We will not transition to a carbon neutral high tech society. We are in a capitalism fitness trap and it's almost too late.

We will not transition to a low tech agrarian society. We conceivably could with proper preparation and reorganizing of society, but we won't. And it may not be possible to rebuild into a low tech agrarian society after a sudden collapse. (Because we are altering the environment such that sufficient crops won't grow. )

We will flail about as we desperately try to keep things going. Canada and Northern Russia will be devastated as enormous effort is expended to make it suitable for large scale habitation. Thawed permafrost bogs will be drained and scraped away to try to find something solid to build on. Massive amounts of NatGas will be used to try to make enough fertilizer for what little dirt there is. The trees will be cut down for housing and the 10,000 lakes polluted. All while the mid latitudes experience giga death from heatwaves and crop failure.

We are hosed. And when the power is turned off and food and fuel stop being shipped to your little corner of the world, all your skills and resilient community's and whatnot just means you'll survive longer as you scavenge the corpse of society. I'm not saying that isn't worthwhile, I'm developing my own skills as well. But this isn't going to be Russia in the 90s or like a civil war in some war torn country. We are destroying the basic inputs human civilization must have to function.

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

lol at having a plan

err posted:

the government will be passing out Quietus before true collapse occurs

Microplastics posted:

You know who else had a plan?

That's right.

CODChimera posted:

this is all good stuff. If the collapse is slow enough then maybe some places will adapt

TACD posted:

don’t see all the hype for survival in general tbh

Barry Soteriology posted:

fell mood fr lol

Cold on a Cob posted:

when you put it that way, i guess things aren't that bad, yet