|
the holy poopacy posted:Especially since again the show version takes a very exploitative piece Neil wrote 30 years ago and gives the female subject vastly more agency. I hadn't looked at the comic in ages but I just flipped through and the art for Calliope made me audibly OOF. For most of the issue she just writhes naked on a bed. The TV adaptation is a massive improvement.
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 19:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 05:58 |
|
|
I remember reading the comic artist actually toned it down from how Gaiman wrote it - not that the rape was more explicit (it wasn't depicted visually but it was very bluntly written) but the character's physical state was intended to be visibly much worse.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 20:10
|
|
|
Quite the opposite, Gaiman's script said "all we see is the wooden floor, and Calliope's hand, and Ric's hand around her wrist". Although, not sure what it said for the panels before and after. Oh there was also one bit about how the penciller made her look terribly emaciated when we first see her and the inker took some of that back.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 20:18
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:Quite the opposite, Gaiman's script said "all we see is the wooden floor, and Calliope's hand, and Ric's hand around her wrist". Although, not sure what it said for the panels before and after. this was probably what I am remembering. e: and when I say "bluntly written" I mean the text of the finished comic is "His first act was to rape her."
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 20:28
|
|
|
in general, the comic pacing is much faster. so in the show maddoc has a chance to completely realize caliope's sentience before just trampling all over it. not sure which is worse, being a naive monster or being a considered monster. dream not referring to his baby momma as "child" is definitely an improvement though
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2022 21:02
|
|
|
 Just remembered that in Paul Dini’s memoir about getting PTSD from getting mugged he had a pitch about Death coming to take Batman. It was fun and Gaiman liked it but it was declined by DC. I can only guess why, but at any rate it seems to a little off about who Gaiman’s Death was. She comes across cold and scary here and seems to defer to Dream as if he has seniority Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Aug 23, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 00:10
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:Quite the opposite, Gaiman's script said "all we see is the wooden floor, and Calliope's hand, and Ric's hand around her wrist". Although, not sure what it said for the panels before and after. Also iirc, Neil's inspiration for this story was basically his fear of getting writer's block
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 01:37
|
|
|
This was a minor thing, and I don't even know if it was intentional, but I liked how Mervyn looked like he was animated at 24 fps like a stop-motion puppet even though he was CGI. It may have been a budgetary constraint rather than an artistic choice, but I thought it worked well.Hieronymous Alloy posted:The casting for this show is so good that Patton Oswalt and Stephen Fry are the weak links I don't see a lot of talk around the internet about loving perfect Boyd Holbrook is as the Corinthian. I hadn't read the comic in like 7 years but he absolutely nailed how Corinthian acted and sounded in my head. Just the perfect blend of creepy aloofness with a soft-spoken Southern drawl. I mean, Tom Sturridge is fantastic but Holbrook killed it. They all killed it. Really great show all around, even the changes they made to the material made sense for the tone they were going for and what works or doesn't work for a live-action adaptation.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 03:59
|
|
|
King Vidiot posted:This was a minor thing, and I don't even know if it was intentional, but I liked how Mervyn looked like he was animated at 24 fps like a stop-motion puppet even though he was CGI. It may have been a budgetary constraint rather than an artistic choice, but I thought it worked well.work for a live-action adaptation. well, apparently... https://neil-gaiman.tumblr.com/post/692258509038960640/thenightling-for-people-who-thought-merv-was
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 05:21
|
|
|
Wow, so it was a physical actor but a CGI neck . I assume the animated face is also CGI, probably with a green screened alternate head. The facial animations though did seem to be at a lower framerate. Or maybe it was just me 
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 06:05
|
|
|
i do think you are right about the framerate, i noticed it too
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 06:09
|
|
|
King Vidiot posted:I don't see a lot of talk around the internet about loving perfect Boyd Holbrook is as the Corinthian. I hadn't read the comic in like 7 years but he absolutely nailed how Corinthian acted and sounded in my head. Just the perfect blend of creepy aloofness with a soft-spoken Southern drawl. I mean, Tom Sturridge is fantastic but Holbrook killed it. he was phenomenal, imo actually he differed a little bit from the comics presented him but all in good ways. he managed to do the convention speech without coming across as pompous or campy, which I really didn't expect. legendary performance 
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 06:41
|
|
|
comics corinthian barely left any impression on me the two times i read, like neat design but i never found him that memorial. but he just totally sells it in the show and was really cool and charming. also im just really happy they his gay stuff like open. its weird to say but its fun to get a lgbt serial killer where like being queer is separated from the killing stuff (it still impacts his victims but everyone knows what i mean)
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 07:00
|
|
|
Loved this. Probably my favorite piece of television in a few years. I am blown away by how often I thought 'yep, again, better than the original comic'. My only concern, is perhaps the whole show in general was too British. I wonder if that may cause some countries to be less welcoming to the show. I hope not, I hope this gets the 4 seasons Gaimon told Maron he wanted to tell the whole story as he plans it. Funso Banjo fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Aug 23, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 15:22
|
|
|
Merv’s animation was absolutely intentional and I’m not sure why this is a debate? Reminded me of something out of an old 80e fantasy movie like return to oz.
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 17:23
|
|
|
Dr. Clockwork posted:Merv’s animation was absolutely intentional and I’m not sure why this is a debate? Reminded me of something out of an old 80e fantasy movie like return to oz. He's a reference to an Oz character anyway specifically , Jack pumpkinhead. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Pumpkinhead
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 17:26
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/neilhimself/status/1562173838514872323?s=21&t=hQRSKOdxzYGPGQxjzYcyGg
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2022 22:09
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:He's a reference to an Oz character anyway specifically , Jack pumpkinhead. When I first read the comics I was like "Wait is that Jack Pumpkinhead." And the creation of him on screen is very similar to Jack in the Return to Oz film, so that's kind of fun. Merv's stop motion face is really a treat to watch. I also notice when he talks to Morpheus he starts to look a bit moldy, so I think his "freshness" is mood based. Clever lil design thing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 01:55
|
|
|
King Vidiot posted:This was a minor thing, and I don't even know if it was intentional, but I liked how Mervyn looked like he was animated at 24 fps like a stop-motion puppet even though he was CGI. It may have been a budgetary constraint rather than an artistic choice, but I thought it worked well. Yes, he was absolutely perfect! All of the casting was, really. Except for one minor nitpick from me. The first half of the season Preludes and Nocturne was much stronger. I think The Dolls House arc would have been much better if they had cast a better actor as Rose Walker. I just don't feel she was very good, and many scenes bothered me. Her brother wasn't great either, but I feel if she had nailed her part, she could have carried him and elevated the whole arc to be as good as the first half.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 14:46
|
|
|
heavy liquid posted:Yes, he was absolutely perfect! All of the casting was, really. Except for one minor nitpick from me. That was a weak spot but I think it's more on the source material than the casting, Rose was always kind of a non-entity. A stronger actor might have helped but they had limited material to work with.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 15:48
|
|
|
Rolling Stone interview with Neil Gaiman reveals that he leaked an early script written by Jon Peters to Ain't it Cool News because it was the worst thing he's ever read. Of course it had a giant mechanical spider in it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 17:30
|
|
|
Were we as the audience supposed to feel like some scenes with the Vortex girl were actually a dream even though she thought they were real life? Like when Stephen Fry meets her in that alley way, I thought she was still dreaming. Or did she only ever interact with Stephen Fry in the non dream world?
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 18:06
|
|
|
Gilbert is 100% in the waking world in all of those scenes, as far as I remember.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 18:09
|
|
|
kneelbeforezog posted:Were we as the audience supposed to feel like some scenes with the Vortex girl were actually a dream even though she thought they were real life? Like when Stephen Fry meets her in that alley way, I thought she was still dreaming. Or did she only ever interact with Stephen Fry in the non dream world? Canonically that's in the real world in both book and show, but also both book and show intentionally blur the lines between dreams and reality. I mean the show itself is shot with blurriness, Dutch angles, and weird aspect ratios at basically all times.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 18:31
|
|
|
I think watching David Lynch stuff for 25 years has just raised my standards for dreamlike scenes to a baseline it's basically impossible to meet
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 19:33
|
|
|
When Rose and Lyta arrive at the BnB and meet the characters there I thought that was a dream.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 19:40
|
|
Interestingly, Gwendoline Christie's Lucifer turns out to be a dead ringer for the version of Lucifer which appeared in Etrigan's comic ("The Demon") about a year before Sandman.    Sandman Lucifer references these events: 
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 19:55
|
|
|
Waffle! posted:Rolling Stone interview with Neil Gaiman reveals that he leaked an early script written by Jon Peters to Ain't it Cool News because it was the worst thing he's ever read. Of course it had a giant mechanical spider in it. So that Tom Sturridge interview that got posted a few days back is great because he’s ripping on the leaked script word for word without mentioning the script. I remember some of the lines Sturiddge is ripping on because I read the leaked pages when they came out. My heart sank so bad back then, haha Finding out it was written by Jon Peters made me raise my eyebrows and when I saw your next sentence that there was a mechanical spider my eyebrows flew off my head
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 20:01
|
|
|
Steve Yun posted:
It was written by William Farmer (who wrote Jonah Hex) but the spider is 100% a Peters mandate.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 20:29
|
|
|
Waffle! posted:Rolling Stone interview with Neil Gaiman reveals that he leaked an early script written by Jon Peters to Ain't it Cool News because it was the worst thing he's ever read. Of course it had a giant mechanical spider in it. Great find, that interview is so worth the read. Of course, there were many attempts to adapt this over the years. Under the producer Jon Peters, there was one infamous script that seemed to make it into a very silly action movie. I haven’t read that whole script, [but] I’ve read as much of the script as I could take. And I’m not sure if it would’ve been an action movie or quite what it would’ve been. It was a mess. It never got better than a mess. It had giant mechanical spiders in it. The way that it worked … Wait, did it really have giant mechanical spiders? It did! Do you know about Jon Peters’ obsession with giant mechanical spiders? I heard about that later. And people were like, “Oh, you are kidding.” And I’m like, “No, it had a giant mechanical spider.” But much more important than that, Lucifer, Morpheus, and the Corinthian were identical triplets. They were a family of identical brothers, and it was all a race to see who could get the ruby, the helm, and the bag of sand before midnight on 1999, before the new millennium started, because whoever got it would be the winner. That was the plot. I remember them phoning me up. And I’m normally, I’m polite and nice if you’re on the phone. I try and find positive things to say to people who phone you up. And a guy in Jon Peters’ office phoned me up and he said, “So Neil, have you had a chance to read the script we sent you?” And I said, “Well, yes. Yes, I did. I haven’t read all of it, but I’ve read enough.” He says, “So, pretty good. Huh?” And I said, “Well, no. It really isn’t.” He said, “Oh, come on. There must have been stuff in there you loved.” I said, “There was nothing in there I loved. There was nothing in there I liked. It was the worst script that I’ve ever read by anybody. It’s not just the worst Sandman script. That was the worst script I’ve ever been sent.” And then there was a pause. He says, “Oh, come on. That thing where we made the Corinthian the Sandman’s brother, that was good. Huh?” And I said, “No, that was really stupid.” And he said, “Oh, well, OK. You can’t win them all.” And I said, “No, you really can’t.” And I put down the phone and I thought, what do I do now? So I sent the script to Ain’t It Cool News, which back then was read by people. And I thought, I wonder what Ain’t It Cool News will think of the script that they’re going to receive anonymously. And they wrote a fabulous article about how it was the worst script they’d ever been sent. And suddenly the prospect of that film happening went away. And instead Jon Peters turned his attention to Wild Wild West. Which, I have to point out, has a giant mechanical spider in it — and according to Kevin Smith, Jon Peters tried to put a giant mechanical spider into his never-made Superman Lives screenplay as well. He had one idea. It transmuted. And he had three properties… They said to him, you can have any three properties you want. And he chose Superman, Wild Wild West, and Sandman. And when I asked, why has he chosen Sandman? They said, because he saw a statue of Morpheus and he thought it looked cool.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 20:39
|
|
|
Starting now! https://twitter.com/netflix_sandman/status/1562154849348661248?s=21&t=_XWOr3TDijPT6WiV6rkTxQ
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 21:09
|
|
|
 Gaiman dunking on people has turned into its own show free of charge Edit: can’t find any news on Delirium casting? Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Aug 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 21:13
|
|
|
I feel like if anything I would have appreciated blonde blue-eyed Death much less
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 21:14
|
|
|
I just can’t relate to that at all, the idea of someone reading the various stories of The Sandman and thinking for even a nano-second that changes like those were needed. It breaks my brain trying to make sense of it. A giant mechanical spider, what in the actual gently caress! That goes beyond mere cocaine psychosis, holy poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 21:15
|
|
|
Sentinel Red posted:I just can’t relate to that at all, the idea of someone reading the various stories of The Sandman and thinking for even a nano-second that changes like those were needed. It breaks my brain trying to make sense of it. A giant mechanical spider, what in the actual gently caress! That goes beyond mere cocaine psychosis, holy poo poo. Jon Peters will not rest until all media includes giant mechanical spiders. It’s his life’s work.
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 21:16
|
|
|
Sentinel Red posted:I just can’t relate to that at all, the idea of someone reading the various stories of The Sandman and thinking for even a nano-second that changes like those were needed. It breaks my brain trying to make sense of it. A giant mechanical spider, what in the actual gently caress! That goes beyond mere cocaine psychosis, holy poo poo. Like I'd almost rather the show had the spider cause I'd have been like okay, they're doing a whole new thing, I can judge that on its own merits
|
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 21:23
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:Yeah but see that's me with "the Corinthian needs Rose to take over the Dreaming" or whatever. He wanted Rose to get rid of the one entity that was out to destroy him. As long as Rose saw him as her brother's protector, he could keep doing his thing. Not that it lasted long, because she was wary of Corinthian as soon as they met in person. Waffle! fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Aug 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 24, 2022 22:04
|
|
|
SimonChris posted:Interestingly, Gwendoline Christie's Lucifer turns out to be a dead ringer for the version of Lucifer which appeared in Etrigan's comic ("The Demon") about a year before Sandman. I am perpetually amused that all of my Lucifer trade paperbacks say "Based on the characters created by Gaiman, Kieth and Dringenberg." Ah, yes, one of the most beloved original characters to emerge from the mind of master storyteller Neil Gaiman: Satan, the actual devil. My Lovely Horse posted:Yeah but see that's me with "the Corinthian needs Rose to take over the Dreaming" or whatever. I would have had zero problems if they added this into the Oldest Game sequence. "I am a Giant gently caress-Off Mechanical Spider: CGI-appearing, budget-inflating. Checkmate, bitch." Indie Rocktopus fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Aug 25, 2022 |
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2022 00:00
|
|
|
Why does the thread title call our goth sadboy problematic? semi-serious question, wondering what I'm missing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2022 00:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 05:58 |
|
|
wee bit problematic to have your exe stuck in hell for a v long time, bit rude dream!
|
|
#
?
Aug 25, 2022 00:25
|
|