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Nybble posted:side note: is Orphan Black really not available anywhere on streaming services in the US? do i have to sail the high seas or get a blu-ray box set? (I don’t like paying for individual shows in digital format unless i’m definitely gonna revisit it) Amazon Prime streaming last I checked
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Lol at how the fans of a film genre which literally began with suspension of disbelief as its entire tagline 50 years ago can't suspend their disbelief when it comes to a woman being good at being the incredible hulk Lol at people trying to measure and quantify the relative trauma responses and hardships of characters across a multi year/writer/director franchise as if that's a meaningful yardstick in this genre. If it was, then every major character would have severe PTSD and it'd just be Watchmen or The Boys or something The Grumbles fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Aug 23, 2022 |
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Aug 23, 2022 13:06
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cant cook creole bream posted:While I am happy for your coworker, that seems kind of a spoiler, considering it's basically insider information. Please stop.
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Aug 23, 2022 13:17
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Ubik_Lives posted:Also, I don't really get what the threat is supposed to be from their perspective if she doesn't learn to control her anger. She turns green. And? Without an alter-ego that either of them are aware of, are they just concerned that she's just going to be comically breaking coffee cups in her hands at work, or hitting her horn too hard when people cut her off in traffic? It's probably less "break a coffee cup" and more "break a person", being as how she's suddenly two foot taller and several thousand times stronger. I imagine learning to control that level of strength so that you're as sensitive as you wish when holding or using something would take a bit of time. And frankly, if I was to be nitpicky about the show then I'd find the fact she can apparently instantly control that difference in physique more unbelievable or problematic than anything to do with her emotional control. It gets us to the thing the show wants to be about faster though, so who cares?
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Aug 23, 2022 14:47
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I was listening to an interview with the head writer yesterday, and her only complaint about shuffling the episode order around so episode 8 was now episode 1 was she would've written the episode a little differently if she had known from the beginning they were going to start with a premise pilot.
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Aug 23, 2022 15:29
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howe_sam posted:I was listening to an interview with the head writer yesterday, and her only complaint about shuffling the episode order around so episode 8 was now episode 1 was she would've written the episode a little differently if she had known from the beginning they were going to start with a premise pilot. Wait, they were gonna have ep8 be the origin story? Right before the finale? 
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Aug 23, 2022 15:38
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I will concede that the “infinitely more than you” part of the line opened the door for criticism and should have been changed, but I also acknowledge that it’s just Jen talking from her knowledge and experiences and she might be proven wrong as the show (and MCU in general) goes on and she faces crazy superhero stuff, but it’s still a poignant and worthwhile commentary about the inherent sexism in society.
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Aug 23, 2022 15:39
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Wait, they were gonna have ep8 be the origin story? Right before the finale? It happened with Moon Knight.
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Aug 23, 2022 15:55
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Vintersorg posted:It happened with Moon Knight. And Wandavision.
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Aug 23, 2022 16:39
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I think you could argue that pretty much all the penultimate episodes of the Marvel shows have involved the characters taking stock of themselves in one way or another before the big blow out confrontation in the finale.
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Aug 23, 2022 16:54
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live with fruit posted:I think part of it is that people are just defensive about Bruce after ten years and five movies. The whole MCU model is people being so invested in these characters that they keep coming back over and over. Obviously there are chuds being chuds out there but I bet there'd be similar issues if there was a similar dynamic between Yelena and Nat. It's just poorly handled..Banner throws a boulder, Jen throws a boulder, Hulk looks annoyed, Jen smirks. It comes across as s dick measuring contest and there's no reason why either of them would care about that at this point. If Banner had said "Holy poo poo that's amazing, you're doing way better than I did. You're made for this, even if you don't really want it" then you would have recognized her rapid progress and they wouldn't have come across as juvenile idiots that care who can throw rocks the furthest.
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Aug 23, 2022 17:30
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Owling Howl posted:It's just poorly handled..Banner throws a boulder, Jen throws a boulder, Hulk looks annoyed, Jen smirks. It comes across as s dick measuring contest and there's no reason why either of them would care about that at this point. ...They're cousins
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Aug 23, 2022 17:31
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Xenomrph posted:I will concede that the “infinitely more than you” part of the line opened the door for criticism and should have been changed, but I also acknowledge that it’s just Jen talking from her knowledge and experiences and she might be proven wrong as the show (and MCU in general) goes on and she faces crazy superhero stuff, but it’s still a poignant and worthwhile commentary about the inherent sexism in society. it's this op Snapping at someone trying to help you go through a situation that literally involves life and death is jarring, here.
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Aug 23, 2022 17:44
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Owling Howl posted:It's just poorly handled..Banner throws a boulder, Jen throws a boulder, Hulk looks annoyed, Jen smirks. It comes across as s dick measuring contest and there's no reason why either of them would care about that at this point. Counterpoint: the Hulk throwing a flaming rock into orbit with an accompanying sonic boom is pretty drat funny.
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Aug 23, 2022 18:05
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Xenomrph posted:That Jen being in control of her anger (and thus able to control her Hulk persona) right from jump trivializes Banner’s trauma he experienced as the Hulk. My take on it is that on one level Jen is correct, she probably does have more experience in controlling her anger on a day to day level than even Bruce does. Bruce is a straight (as far as we know), cisgender white male. That allows him to dodge a huge amount of social bullshit that people who aren't straight, cisgender male or white can't. On the other side, though, Jen desperately wants to be correct about her anger tolerance because she wants to get back to her "real" life. I think Jen wants to treat becoming a Hulk like a mild case of COVID or something. Like, "Screw it. I'll self-isolate for a couple of weeks and then go back to work and forget this ever happened to me."
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Aug 23, 2022 18:06
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Rarity posted:...They're cousins Ah yes this is what all cousins do
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Aug 23, 2022 18:11
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If you didn't have a hulk contest with your cousins during thanksgiving did you even have cousins?
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Aug 23, 2022 18:16
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If anything, we need more cousin shenanigans. What's Ched's deal?
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Aug 23, 2022 18:36
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live with fruit posted:If anything, we need more cousin shenanigans. What's Ched's deal? Ched Banner has a wiki page that just says he is a relative of Bruce Banner whose life details are unknown. lol
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Aug 23, 2022 18:47
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Kaedric posted:it's this op He's saying she needs to prepare to be a superhero, despite that not being what she wants to do at all. He is only preparing her to live like he does, not living like she wants to. He goes on to say she needs to spend years carefully getting her emotions under control, when she's already mastered the emotions thing before she even became a hulk. He's trying to help, but he's only considering his own experiences, and he cannot imagine that his own learning experience isn't a novel insight. If it took him a long time to figure something out, surely it's something important that he should tell others about, without considering their own experiences. He is, in fact, mansplaining. And it's fine. He's not a bad person, he's trying to help. It's cool. But it is totally fair for Jen to snap at him when he doesn't get it. In the end he does seem to get it, and they part on friendly terms. It's a good scene where people who like each other talk past each other and get frustrated with each other, and then resolve things. The show even leaves some ambiguity as to whether she's right about her own self assessment, but it's still perfectly reasonable for her to be defensive about it when Bruce is completely talking past her own lived experiences. People who have gone through "comic book poo poo" aren't the only people who have experienced emotions.
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Aug 23, 2022 18:57
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live with fruit posted:If anything, we need more cousin shenanigans. What's Ched's deal? Ched's dead baby. Ched's dead.
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Aug 23, 2022 19:21
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Eiba posted:He's saying she needs to prepare to be a superhero, despite that not being what she wants to do at all. He is only preparing her to live like he does, not living like she wants to. He is absolutely right about this part though. Jen is brushing him off because she doesn't want that responsibility to disrupt the life she's worked so hard to gain, but she will be a target now, and even if she wasn't, she still has a responsibility to use her power regardless. Which Jen herself knows deep down, and the show itself certainly knows because the opening lines of the show are Jen saying as much, even if in a different context. The lines being set to originally occur in the second to last episode, when you'd expect her to be getting ready for revelation before accepting something in the finale. I think it's pretty reasonable to expect she'll come to terms with that by the end of the season and maybe even train with Bruce between seasons after the finale given his last lines about the offer standing.
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Aug 23, 2022 19:33
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Rarity posted:...They're cousins Seriously. These oddballs are crazy.
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Aug 23, 2022 19:47
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tsob posted:He is absolutely right about this part though. Jen is brushing him off because she doesn't want that responsibility to disrupt the life she's worked so hard to gain, but she will be a target now, and even if she wasn't, she still has a responsibility to use her power regardless. Which Jen herself knows deep down, and the show itself certainly knows because the opening lines of the show are Jen saying as much, even if in a different context. Presumably the Titania stuff wasn't supposed to happen in the next to last episode, right? If the whole thing is about Jennifer becoming the face of a superhero law firm, it wouldn't make sense for her to only come out so late.
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Aug 23, 2022 20:40
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tsob posted:He is absolutely right about this part though. Jen is brushing him off because she doesn't want that responsibility to disrupt the life she's worked so hard to gain, but she will be a target now, and even if she wasn't, she still has a responsibility to use her power regardless. Which Jen herself knows deep down, and the show itself certainly knows because the opening lines of the show are Jen saying as much, even if in a different context. Regardless of who was most justified, the point is it was understandable for her to be frustrated and snap at Bruce when he wasn't respecting what she was saying.
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Aug 23, 2022 21:44
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tsob posted:It's probably less "break a coffee cup" and more "break a person", being as how she's suddenly two foot taller and several thousand times stronger. I imagine learning to control that level of strength so that you're as sensitive as you wish when holding or using something would take a bit of time. And frankly, if I was to be nitpicky about the show then I'd find the fact she can apparently instantly control that difference in physique more unbelievable or problematic than anything to do with her emotional control. It gets us to the thing the show wants to be about faster though, so who cares? The Incredible Hulk does show that. When Blonsky tries to challenge Hulk with one dose of super soldier serum, Hulk just casually punches him. Blonsky is flipped across the field into a tree hard enough to bend his entire body in wrong ways. If Jen lets herself fall to just one mild impulse like slapping a drunk guy while She-Hulk, she could take his head off. Being a Hulk means you can’t even have normal, everyday anger safely.
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Aug 23, 2022 22:26
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The discussion about hardships reminds me a lot of the 30 Rock episode when Kenneth says he’s a white man so he disagrees with Jack, who then says socioeconomically he’s an inner city Latina. They’re both wealthy. Are we next going to argue that because She-Hulk isn’t poor she doesn’t have to really control anger because she isn’t facing a situation where she doesn’t know when her next meal will be? Maybe we should stop worrying about quantifying hardships and understand that they’re both right and both wrong in this situation. The lesson from that scene is that neither person, nobody, should be ignoring someone else’s experiences just because. Super Deuce fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Aug 23, 2022 |
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Aug 23, 2022 22:52
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Side effects of the she hulk transformation usually include a pretty big increase in self confidence, so it's not completely out of character to be a bit smug and dismissive of advice. I thought Bruce had the anger and the foundations of the hulk persona basically buried within him pre-hulk. Regardless of how it got there, the method of how he was dealing with it wasn't healthy or helpful. "My secret, I'm always angry" is not a good way of being. His 'intergrating' the hulk persona is basically him going to therapy and accepting his anger and his angry aspect (dbt). While everyone needs therapy, not everyone needs it as much as Bruce needed it. At the moment he's like an AA member with a 5 year chip, warning about the effects of alcohol. It's his way of coping with his own baggage, but it isn't for everyone.
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Aug 24, 2022 01:24
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Goffer posted:Side effects of the she hulk transformation usually include a pretty big increase in self confidence, so it's not completely out of character to be a bit smug and dismissive of advice. I mean, Brian Banner was an abusive father/husband (who murdered his wife and was already connected to the One Below All before Bruce was even conceived) so Bruce was kinda screwed from the start.
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Aug 24, 2022 01:57
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Vintersorg posted:It happened with Moon Knight. They didn't have to put the origin at the penultimate episode of She-Hulk, when the story they are telling wouldn't necessitate that
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Aug 24, 2022 02:05
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Technowolf posted:I mean, Brian Banner was an abusive father/husband (who murdered his wife and was already connected to the One Below All before Bruce was even conceived) so Bruce was kinda screwed from the start. Maybe, but not in the MCU that we are aware of.
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Aug 24, 2022 03:11
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Would have been wild if they flashed a green door for a frame during the car crash/transfusion scene though
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Aug 24, 2022 04:10
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Technowolf posted:I mean, Brian Banner was an abusive father/husband (who murdered his wife and was already connected to the One Below All before Bruce was even conceived) so Bruce was kinda screwed from the start. Why do people in this thread keep trying to integrate obscure comics backstory into this MCU show to contextualise the character’s motives. They’re not going to write an omnipotent creator god into “She-Hulk: Attorney At Law”, and I’d be surprised if they go anywhere near the minefield that is serious parental domestic abuse. It’s a comedy drama. Edit: Bruce and Jen get into a fight because they are under the malign influence of Mephisto
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Aug 24, 2022 12:53
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The Grumbles posted:Why do people in this thread keep trying to integrate obscure comics backstory into this MCU show to contextualise the character’s motives. They’re not going to write an omnipotent creator god into “She-Hulk: Attorney At Law”, and I’d be surprised if they go anywhere near the minefield that is serious parental domestic abuse. It’s a comedy drama. It’s probably because the tv show and movies do a bad job of developing these characters. Especially the hulk/Bruce banner
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Aug 24, 2022 13:12
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Owling Howl posted:It comes across as s dick measuring contest and there's no reason why either of them would care about that at this point. Are you an only child with no cousins? Cuz my sisters would've dunked on me relentlessly if I acted like King poo poo of something only for them to catch up in a day.
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Aug 24, 2022 13:21
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The Grumbles posted:Why do people in this thread keep trying to integrate obscure comics backstory into this MCU show to contextualise the character’s motives. They’re not going to write an omnipotent creator god into “She-Hulk: Attorney At Law”, and I’d be surprised if they go anywhere near the minefield that is serious parental domestic abuse. It’s a comedy drama. Not that I don't agree with your general point that people need to stop acting like Bruce's comics backstory is his movie backstory, but I'd be shocked if She-Hulk: Attorney at Law doesn't have her trying a cosmic case in front of the Living Tribunal (i.e. an omnipotent god; though I'm not sure on the creator aspect) at some point. The Living Tribunal has already been mentioned or implied in the MCU a few times according to the Wikia, as statues in both Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness and Loki, along with mentions in the Thor films, but I imagine She-Hulk would be the easiest/best place to actually feature it as a character. It almost certainly won't happen in season 1, but I'd be surprised if it's not part of a future season at all. It'd be especially fun if she has to defend Loki himself at some point a few years down the line, when both shows are coming to a close, as a crossover to help round out their arcs; Jen because it'd be her trying a case at the highest court in existence and make it explicit as well as justify her view that being a lawyer means more to her than being a superhero, and Loki as a way to recap his character and explicitly go "no, he has changed and he's actually kind of a decent person now" or something. That'd lean more toward the emotional/dramatic though, and you could alternatively have her defending the Guardians in a more comedic case, since they tend to rub people the wrong way.
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Aug 24, 2022 13:41
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Ah yes this is what all cousins do You've never had a petty competitive rivalry with a close family member?
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Aug 24, 2022 13:46
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The Grumbles posted:Why do people in this thread keep trying to integrate obscure comics backstory into this MCU show to contextualise the character’s motives. They’re not going to write an omnipotent creator god into “She-Hulk: Attorney At Law”, and I’d be surprised if they go anywhere near the minefield that is serious parental domestic abuse. It’s a comedy drama.
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Aug 24, 2022 14:29
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stev posted:You've never had a petty competitive rivalry with a close family member? With my siblings sure but not my cousins. Not sure what’s going on with Americans and their cousins but we all chill over here with the Mexican family.
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Aug 24, 2022 15:23
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The Grumbles posted:Why do people in this thread keep trying to integrate obscure comics backstory into this MCU show to contextualise the character’s motives. They’re not going to write an omnipotent creator god into “She-Hulk: Attorney At Law”, and I’d be surprised if they go anywhere near the minefield that is serious parental domestic abuse. It’s a comedy drama. Because otherwise the feminist monologue makes sense and is well written.
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