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Colonel J posted:I bought a used dishwasher, it has a standard 3-pronged electrical plug. My dishwasher hole only has a bare wire, so I guess I need to add an outlet at the end of it. I have no trouble buying an outlet from a hardware store and doing it myself, but is there any issue doing so? Is this the kind of work that'll void my insurance if not done by an electrician? It all depends on your jurisdiction. In my county (in Ohio, US), homeowners are allowed to do their own electrical work / repair / modifications, as long as it meets code. When you say your dishwasher only has "a bare wire," do you mean a cable with 3 individual wires? Maybe White/red/green?
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Aug 23, 2022 22:13
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EVERYWHERE 
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Yeah. You are probably good buying an "old work box" that clamps to the drywall and installing that with an outlet, but it all depends on what exactly the current setup is and legality depends on where you live. There's a wiring thread where you might get more specific expertise. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3090739
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Aug 23, 2022 22:29
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meatpimp posted:It all depends on your jurisdiction. In my county (in Ohio, US), homeowners are allowed to do their own electrical work / repair / modifications, as long as it meets code. I'm in Québec, Canada. I tried googling but didn't really find the right keywords. The electrical cable coming out of the dishwasher is a standard 3-pronged plug.  dishwasher end  house end The cable coming out "of the house" (from under the cabinets) is a single cable with 3 wires, all taped up at the end. I guess the previous owners' dishwasher connected directly with wire connectors (marettes in french?). Colonel J fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Aug 23, 2022 |
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Aug 23, 2022 23:02
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We will pretend that terminated in a hardwire box and it wasn't just yolo'd together and stuffed in the back. Can you post a broader angle of where this dishwasher is going to live? I would jump to the home wiring thread, but I honestly don't know how much people know about Quebecois laws around this. I will say - you cannot just cut the end off and wire nut them together. That doesn't fly anywhere.  (You weren't suggesting this, it's just potentially how the old machine was hooked up.)
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Aug 23, 2022 23:17
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Colonel J posted:I bought a used dishwasher, it has a standard 3-pronged electrical plug. My dishwasher hole only has a bare wire, so I guess I need to add an outlet at the end of it. I have no trouble buying an outlet from a hardware store and doing it myself, but is there any issue doing so? Is this the kind of work that'll void my insurance if not done by an electrician? Nobody’s going to know what’s behind your dishwasher or not. However, you could void your dishwasher’s warrantee by chopping the plug off and wiring it up that way if you wanted an alternative.
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Aug 23, 2022 23:24
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Colonel J posted:I'm in Québec, Canada. I tried googling but didn't really find the right keywords. You will be unsurprised to hear that the way the prior owner's solution is not best practices. Since you're starting with a stub wire, skip to 9:00 in this video. As always, cut the power to that circuit first. If you're not sure which fuse is the right one, cut the whole house power and live without internet for a moment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWfEANZOYSk Get an "old work junction box" as stated above. For these, you cut a correctly sized hole in the drywall and the little tabs hold it to the right spot. It's probably going to be one of those plastic ones. The back will have 2, 4 or more of those little slits in it. The slits are to feed in the raw, white wire from your photo. There's a bit of camming action in those, so the wire cannot fall back through it and back into the wall. They also take an uncomfortable amount of force to jam in, you'll feel like you're giving it too much muscle but it's OK. This is also MUCH easier if you lop off the three ends of that white wire, and are instead pushing through one fat insulated wire. Now that that's in with a few inches of slack, you can see the guy's instructions on cutting the insulation and separating the wires. Wiring outlets is pretty easy. Most outlets you stab the wire in. The outlet will have a gauge on the back to show how far to strip back the wires (couple centimeters maximum). Shove the black one in the one for BLACK or HOT, the white one in the NEUTRAL, and then the bare copper ground wire usually gets looped around and screwed down with a screw on the side. The outlet you want is a GFCI outlet. They are rectangular and need the special rectangular faceplate. Start with this video at about 2:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqTNJUT_lKg GFCI outlets have little switches inside that cut the power to the outlet when it's grounded, like if it gets wet (a thing that can happen under the sink). Then you power the breaker back on, test it with an outlet tester (they are not expensive, and are really nice to have when doing electrical work), and then you're done.
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Aug 23, 2022 23:29
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yolo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Aug 23, 2022 23:36
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H110Hawk posted:I will say - you cannot just cut the end off and wire nut them together. That doesn't fly anywhere. Hardwire dishwashers have (had) approved enclosures on them for making the connection. So it's very unsurprising to see just a flying end of a piece of romex being left after one of those has been removed.
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Aug 23, 2022 23:37
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Motronic posted:So it's very unsurprising to see just a flying end of a piece of romex being left after one of those has been removed. So far, every "appliance" (i.e. the kitchen range hood and the bathroom fan, and now the dishwaher) has had this for power.
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Aug 23, 2022 23:44
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Colonel J posted:So far, every "appliance" (i.e. the kitchen range hood and the bathroom fan, and now the dishwaher) has had this for power. Yeah, not a surprise at all. This is how "hard wired" appliances worked. I don't know if it was this thread or a different one where not but a day or so ago I was saying that this is exactly why most new appliances have plugs. You don't want the subcontracted delivery driver turned into an appliance mover to be doing electrical work in your house. But that's how most people get appliances these days from big box stores. So they're all getting corded and new building codes are specifying an outlet for this stuff. Easy solution, and one extra easy means of disconnect.
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Aug 24, 2022 00:02
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canyoneer posted:Most outlets you stab the wire in. The outlet will have a gauge on the back to show how far to strip back the wires (couple centimeters maximum). Shove the black one in the one for BLACK or HOT, the white one in the NEUTRAL, and then the bare copper ground wire usually gets looped around and screwed down with a screw on the side.
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Aug 24, 2022 01:28
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Slugworth posted:Don't do this. I mean, it's ul listed, many professional electricians do it, it's allowed by code, etc, so I don't wanna make it seem like it's the worst thing in the world, but backstabs don't work as well as posts long term. Use the screws on the side of the outlet for every wire. that's the next owners problem
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Aug 24, 2022 01:50
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BigFactory posted:Nobody’s going to know what’s behind your dishwasher or not. However, you could void your dishwasher’s warrantee by chopping the plug off and wiring it up that way if you wanted an alternative. This is a used dishwasher, it's gonna have zero warranty any way you slice it. If you were gifted a used dishwasher I could understand it, but goons go to great lengths to save money in amusing ways. It's rude of me to assume somebody's financial situation, but it certainly is a headscratcher how someone could afford to maintain a property they own and not pay $100 or $200 more for the cheapest new dishwasher at Le Lowe's Depot. Inner Light fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 01:53
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Inner Light posted:This is a used dishwasher, it's gonna have zero warranty any way you slice it. If you were gifted a used dishwasher I could understand it, but goons go to great lengths to save money in amusing ways. It's rude of me to assume somebody's financial situation, but it certainly is a headscratcher how someone could afford to maintain a property they own and not pay $100 or $200 more for the cheapest new dishwasher at Le Lowe's Depot. Yeah it's not relevant here. This dishwasher is in their kitchen ready to be hooked up. They also have one or two weeks of groceries in their pocket.
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Aug 24, 2022 03:02
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canyoneer posted:
Do you really want to have a dishwasher outlet with an installed dishwasher in front of it to be a gfci? If it trips you have to uninstall the dishwasher. If the outlet is under the sink and accessible it’s different.
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Aug 24, 2022 03:10
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lol the wiring thread just had the gfci dishwasher argument
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Aug 24, 2022 03:12
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Deviant posted:that's the next owners problem I can't stand by and watch someone willingly becoming Previous Owner, Destroyer of Homes.
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Aug 24, 2022 04:52
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JackBandit posted:I grew up in an apartment building, and we had a superintendent that would fix stuff when it broke. My wife and I bought a house 4 years ago, and there’s just so much stuff I’m clueless about. I pick it up here and there and try to do some research whenever a crisis pops up, but I feel like I’m missing some basic education. I think you just have to resign yourself to scope creep, plan as much as you can, but still spend a lot of time looking up issues as they come up. Also, I lurk home DIY threads here; even when I'm not asking dumbfuck questions, lurking is always informative. That was the actual list from my recent bathroom replacement. Ten years ago I probably couldn't have done any of it. A couple months ago, I could deal with all of it right as it arose, except for getting the drain pipes to line up (still working on that). The definite best option is to make friends with a relative or neighbor who is handy, if you can track one down. Ply them with cookies and/or beer and try to avoid politics while looking over their shoulder.
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Aug 24, 2022 05:16
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i like nice words
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Thanks for that. I think I understood about 1% of your vanity story, though, the rest sounded like Ron Swanson to me.
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Aug 24, 2022 05:32
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Re : dishwasher wiring, after a good night's sleep I realized it sits right next to the fridge which has an outlet behind it.I'm glad I didn't rush out to the hardware store to buy parts.
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Aug 24, 2022 13:18
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I'm pretty sure dishwashers need to be on a dedicated circuit (in the US, at least). I thought refrigerators did as well, but I'm not sure. In any case, you have a power feed for the dishwasher in the location that the dishwasher is installed. I would strongly suggest using it, even if you have to hire an electrician to wire it up correctly. Best case you're setting yourself up for nuisance trips when the fridge compressor kicks on while the dishwasher is running a cycle.
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Aug 24, 2022 13:45
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Simple advice—if you aren’t sure which of the three $1.34 fittings you need from Home Depot, just buy them all and save yourself another trip.
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Aug 24, 2022 13:57
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Simple advice—if you aren’t sure which of the three $1.34 fittings you need from Home Depot, just buy them all and save yourself another trip. This is sage advice
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Aug 24, 2022 14:30
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Colonel J posted:I bought a used dishwasher, it has a standard 3-pronged electrical plug. My dishwasher hole only has a bare wire, so I guess I need to add an outlet at the end of it. I have no trouble buying an outlet from a hardware store and doing it myself, but is there any issue doing so? Is this the kind of work that'll void my insurance if not done by an electrician? Feels like it might be a state specific question. Here in New Hampshire you can do all your wiring but in other states you must be licensed.
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Aug 24, 2022 14:59
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Chunjee posted:[Tiling my kitchen] Is the floor system wood plank flooring or plywood? How thick? How old is the home? What size are the tiles? A common mistake by inexperienced tilers is that they fail to stiffen a wood floor system sufficiently and too much flex remains. The smaller the tile is, the better it can handle this; however, once you get over 4"-6" on one plane of the tile, the flex is too great, and they crack. On older homes, putting down another layer of plywood, 1/2" & sometimes 3/4" plus underlayment, is required to stiffen the floor enough to handle, say, 16" or 24" tile. Colonel J posted:I bought a used dishwasher, it has a standard 3-pronged electrical plug. My dishwasher hole only has a bare wire, so I guess I need to add an outlet at the end of it. I have no trouble buying an outlet from a hardware store and doing it myself, but is there any issue doing so? Is this the kind of work that'll void my insurance if not done by an electrician? 1) No 2) They will not cancel your homeowner's insurance. Do NOT cut the plug off and hard-wire it with that cord coming out of your line box. I'm a stubborn old fool, so I'd remove the cord all they way back to the electrical box in the dishwasher & replace it with armored cable even though NEMA has waved its magic wand & declared dishwashers to be portable appliances. NEMA codes largely make sense and should be followed, but the garbage disposal & dishwasher plug-in is idiotic. Who wants a live open receptacle under a water source/sink basin? Possibly with limited or no access? If you choose to do what they recommend, though, just make sure that you have a good, robust ground before you install a receptacle under there. PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 15:04
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Something caused my disposal receptacle to fail about a month ago and I haven't fixed it specifically because there's like six things between it and me. I also don't understand why sump pumps are plugged in.
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Aug 24, 2022 15:45
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In general, a plug cord makes replacement simpler. For residential sump pumps the plug end makes sense to allow for a quick replacement. The failure of a pump is typically only noticed once the sump pit is overflowing so a quick replacement is more appropriate than having a hardwire connection. Code also requires a dedicated simplex receptacle for a residential sump pump. In commercial applications you'll typically see duplex pumps hard wired into a sump controller which has alarm capabilities, either local Audio-visual or contacts to a building management system.
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Aug 24, 2022 15:56
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IIRC the plug also satisfies the need for a local disconnecting means, which is typically a requirement for motors. I want to say that there were exceptions for most residential appliances (i.e. the breaker was considered sufficient), but then I think a code change at some point eliminated that exception? Would explain why a certain vintage of homes (like mine) have a light switch controlling the dishwasher... built after the code change, but before plugs were common.
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Aug 24, 2022 16:09
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Bajaha posted:The failure of a pump is typically only noticed once the sump pit is overflowing so a quick replacement is more appropriate than having a hardwire connection. 10 years ago I lived in a basement apartment and the sump pump failed. We noticed it when water started coming out from under the walls, the floor was squishy when we jumped on it. The landlord was incredibly mad, but he hadn't informed us there was a sump pump. I didn't even know what they were. edit : After talking with an electrician I'm not allowed to plug in the dishwasher myself, but apparently everyone does it and I'll never get caught. If the house burns down insurance will still pay out. They recommended removing the cable coming out of the dishwasher and directly connecting the wires coming out of the house into the dishwasher's electrical box, which makes more sense to me than installing a whole new socket and is likely what I'll end up doing. Colonel J fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 17:26
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Colonel J posted:They recommended removing the cable coming out of the dishwasher and directly connecting the wires coming out of the house into the dishwasher's electrical box, which makes more sense to me than installing a whole new socket and is likely what I'll end up doing. This is a stupid and bad idea. Install an outlet on the wall in the cubicle where the dishwasher sits using the 3 wires coming out of your wall and use the factory plug on the dishwasher to plug into that outlet. It Is very simple, and it's no more complex to put in an outlet than it is to hardwire your dishwasher (which is stupid). Was it not this thread that discussed this ad nauseum? Was it the wiring thread? Romex is not intended for constant movement and disconnecting/reconnecting. When you replace this dishwasher, or you ever need to pull it out and work on it, hardwiring it means you'll have to un-wire it or otherwise kill power to the circuit or your whole house. It's a pain in the rear end and not putting in the outlet now saves you no time.
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Aug 25, 2022 01:55
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BonerGhost posted:This is a stupid and bad idea. Install an outlet on the wall in the cubicle where the dishwasher sits using the 3 wires coming out of your wall and use the factory plug on the dishwasher to plug into that outlet. It Is very simple, and it's no more complex to put in an outlet than it is to hardwire your dishwasher (which is stupid). Sadly it's too late. I never read through this thread before so I don't know previous discussions, but I went with what the electrician told me and it works now. I think I did a good job with the wiring, so I'm not too concerned about problems, but I'll keep that (and the old cable) in mind if there's a next time.
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Aug 25, 2022 02:26
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Colonel J posted:Sadly it's too late. I never read through this thread before so I don't know previous discussions, but I went with what the electrician told me and it works now. I think I did a good job with the wiring, so I'm not too concerned about problems, but I'll keep that (and the old cable) in mind if there's a next time. I could have gone easier on the "this is stupid" poo poo because it's not going to burn down your house, but it is PO behavior.
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Aug 25, 2022 02:58
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Ehh it's not the end of the world. It's how all dishwashers were wired ~30 years ago and not forbidden by current code. Or in other words
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Aug 25, 2022 03:18
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I'm a lazy bones so I paid for install with my dishwasher, I always get a kick out of when you see the value of what you paid for with trades. Two Big Men came to my place, they got the old one out and it was hard wired from 20 years ago, new one had a plug. It took one of the guys maybe 2.5 minutes to install the box and outlet, he probably does 5+ installs a day exactly like this every day. They were from one of those great finds if you're near a big metro, an appliance retailer that is well known which has their own delivery/install team, not subcontracted out. Miles and miles better than the big box stores.
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Aug 25, 2022 03:28
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Either way is nothing to fret over. Hardwired into appliance jbox is fine. Installing an outlet is also fine. You don’t install a dishwasher every day so do whichever floats your boat.
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Aug 25, 2022 05:23
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canyoneer posted:Ehh it's not the end of the world. It's how all dishwashers were wired ~30 years ago and not forbidden by current code. Or in other words
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Aug 25, 2022 11:25
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canyoneer posted:Ehh it's not the end of the world. It's how all dishwashers were wired ~30 years ago and not forbidden by current code. Or in other words And look how allowing older code worked out for THAT project 
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Aug 25, 2022 13:40
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So we are finally closing on our new build home next month, and I am trying to come up with a list of everything I should take care of maintenance-wise prior to moving in So far I've got 1. Seal grout 2. Seal marble and stone countertops 3.apply barrier treatment for insect 4.Seal the concrete on the screened in porch Any other items I should look at addressing while the home is empty? And for concrete sealers, the porch is just bare, broom finished concrete, so I am mainly looking for something that will help prevent staining from any food/drink spills or from my wife's plant/pots. I am thinking a penetrating sealer is what I'd need since I don't care about it being glossy, but I seem to find conflicting answers on google as to which is better for this application
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Aug 25, 2022 14:23
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Slugworth posted:Did code ever allow the connection to be loose Romex though? The hardwired appliances I've always seen have been in flex/bx. Just having a loop of Romex behind his stove feels... Less than ideal to me, but to be fair, I have very little experience with Romex. Depends entirely on jurisdiction. You're right, it's very much less than ideal because when pushing the appliance back in the romex is at risk of being pinched/damaged. To me this should have alwys been some sort of armored cable/flex conduit. Epiphyte posted:So we are finally closing on our new build home next month, and I am trying to come up with a list of everything I should take care of maintenance-wise prior to moving in Not sure what you're expecting here - nobody other than you knows what needs to be done or what you want to do. In general you should paint or replace/refinish floors before you move in. Do anything related to closets and storage spaces before you move in. Anything that produces a lot of dust or required a lot of equipment. What those might be for both the home you bought and your preferences are unknowable.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:34
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Motronic posted:Depends entirely on jurisdiction.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:38
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