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Not really any new details, but all of the reporting was basically right and it is now "official." The specific details are supposed to come out at a 2 pm speech and will probably leak beforehand. https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1562462774969581570
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Aug 24, 2022 16:34
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Lib and let die posted:I'm not sure I understand your concern - or rather, how it's relevant. Good points. I think if we’re apportioning credit, we shouldn’t forget President Johnson who oversaw the creation of Pell Grants. I see this as another feather in the legacy of Johnson’s cap!
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Aug 24, 2022 16:43
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Interesting. I have around $30K in student loans, all from the last 3 years, but I received Pell Grants my first time in college 20 years ago. Fingers crossed that their system just looks to see if you’ve ever gotten Pell Grants…
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Aug 24, 2022 16:43
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Beastie posted:Someone said it best, if they can do 10k they can do it all. The current court understatement tends not to defer to executive agencies the way its predecessors has, enacting Scalia's "Elephant in a Mousehole" doctrine in all but name. Typically, this is done by either ignoring Chevron all together or with the one remaining (footnoted) part of Chevron they do like: quote:“If a court, employing traditional tools of statutory construction, ascertains that Congress had an intention on the precise question at issue, that intention is the law and must be given effect.” Ironically, given their love of reinterpretation, they have found solace in a Chevron predecessor, Skidmore: quote:We consider that the rulings, interpretations, and opinions of the Administrator under this Act, while not controlling upon the courts by reason of their authority, do constitute a body of experience and informed judgment to which courts and litigants may properly resort for guidance. The weight of such a judgment in a particular case will depend upon the thoroughness evident in its consideration, the validity of its reasoning, its consistency with earlier and later pronouncements, and all those factors which give it power to persuade, if lacking power to control There is at least a colorable argument that targeted relief and forgiveness is consistent with past Education action and decisionmaking in a way that blanket or more robust forgiveness is not, meaning the former is permissible and the latter is not. My impression of Biden's decision, if I'm being charitable, is that these are efforts to survive the inevitable Skidmore and Chevron challenges. The meanstesting reflects a narrower scope more in line with past actions while the different classes (Pell bonus) reflect the agency's thoroughness. It's an effort to get through the most he thinks he can implement, rather than trying for more and ending up with nothing for everyone. A less charitable take would be that Biden expects this to be shot down anyway and feels better about campaigning on and rallying against the court decision because of the self-imposed limitations than he would if it were blanket forgiveness - if he expects the answer to be $0 of forgiveness by the time the Courts have had their say, then there's no cost to choosing what he feels (rightly or wrongly) is the option with more political support.
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Aug 24, 2022 16:43
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moose47 posted:Interesting. I have around $30K in student loans, all from the last 3 years, but I received Pell Grants my first time in college 20 years ago. Fingers crossed that their system just looks to see if you’ve ever gotten Pell Grants… That is almost certainly how it works. It would be a lot more work and very weird to structure the system to identify Pell Grant recipients and then filter them out based on age of loan and other subsets of criteria.
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Aug 24, 2022 16:44
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Upgrade posted:Good points. I think if we’re apportioning credit, we shouldn’t forget President Johnson who oversaw the creation of Pell Grants. I see this as another feather in the legacy of Johnson’s cap! Apologies — I forgot to mention Nixon, who oversaw the passage of Title IX. We can really say that Biden is “standing on the shoulders of giants” with this move!
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Aug 24, 2022 16:45
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Ghost Leviathan posted:You'd be absolutely shocked how the laziest most useless narcissist suddenly becomes motivated and methodical when there's something they actually want. I once engaged mine asking them to help out with chores-of-mutual-responsibility in the mornings instead of leaving it all on me. This person ran up one side of me and down the other, with so many excuses about How. They. Cannot. Function. In. The. Morning. How dare I ask for help?! I was a complete rear end in a top hat for bringing it up. They went on for like five minutes. It was the verbal equivalent of fighting an alligator and left me mentally exhausted. As is common with a narcissist, after a minute that conversation was out of their mind and onto the next topic. After spending that time building up their case, they swiftly tore it down with, "By the way, I have an appointment (for something that directly benefited them) in the morning, so I'll be getting up at 6am."
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Aug 24, 2022 16:47
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Lib and let die posted:I'm not sure I understand your concern - or rather, how it's relevant. You're just trying to dress up your childish behavior in pseudo-intellectualism.
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Aug 24, 2022 16:47
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Biden's already breaking his student loan promises. The 2 pm announcement with the details on the plan has been delayed to 2:15.
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Aug 24, 2022 16:49
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I have FFEL loans and I sure hope if they're not covered that I'll have time to consolidate and it's not, like, "all loans consolidated as of midnight.... LAST NIGHT!"
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Aug 24, 2022 16:52
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BonoMan posted:You're just trying to dress up your childish behavior in pseudo-intellectualism. I think this is really unfair. Public policy is a river, and it’s important to know the path that river takes before it reaches you - this can be helpful in avoiding rapids! I’m personally thanking King William II today, because by issuing Letters of Patent to William & Mary in 1695 he helped chart the course (of the river!) of higher education in the US.
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Aug 24, 2022 16:52
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Not really any new details, but all of the reporting was basically right and it is now "official." This appears to be a slightly more detailed summary. https://studentaid.gov/debt-relief-announcement/
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Aug 24, 2022 16:59
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I'm completely shocked Biden is going forward to forgiving student loan debt. I didn't think he'd have the balls to do it. He's definitely got my vote for 2024. EDIT: LOL FoxNews right on brand 
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Aug 24, 2022 17:06
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Epicurius posted:This appears to be a slightly more detailed summary. so reading this, it sounds like this debt forgiveness applies to graduate and undergraduate loans, from public and from private universities? Or should we wait until the actual announcement/speech?
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Aug 24, 2022 17:07
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Gadfly posted:I'm completely shocked Biden is going forward to forgiving student loan debt. I didn't think he'd have the balls to do it. He's definitely got my vote for 2024. lol the NAACP slammed him for not forgiving more.
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Aug 24, 2022 17:13
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lobster shirt posted:so reading this, it sounds like this debt forgiveness applies to graduate and undergraduate loans, from public and from private universities? Or should we wait until the actual announcement/speech? Seeing as though they specifically call out undergraduate loans for the income cap but don't mention a difference anywhere else I think it doesn't matter.
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Aug 24, 2022 17:15
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That is a very likely explanation. I'm suddenly getting flashbacks to Trump tweeting about perusing the JFK assassination files and such, with his enthusiastic declaration, "So interesting!" It was one of the only times he seemed to genuinely enjoy himself and his position. It was actually kind of adorable, believe it or not. Maybe he just really enjoys reading and collecting behind-the-scenes government poo poo?
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Aug 24, 2022 17:15
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Epicurius posted:This appears to be a slightly more detailed summary. "Cover the borrower's unpaid monthly interest, so that unlike other existing income-driven repayment plans, no borrower's loan balance will grow as long as they make their monthly payments—even when that monthly payment is $0 because their income is low."
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Aug 24, 2022 17:15
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Oh poo poo. That new loan type is actually really good and available to anyone. quote:Require borrowers to pay no more than 5% of their discretionary income monthly on undergraduate loans. This is down from the 10% available under the most recent income-driven repayment plan. quote:Raise the amount of income that is considered non-discretionary income and therefore is protected from repayment, guaranteeing that no borrower earning under 225% of the federal poverty level—about the annual equivalent of a $15 minimum wage for a single borrower—will have to make a monthly payment. This will cut the average payment in half, guarantee a $0 monthly payment for individuals with incomes below $33k or families of 4 below $62,500 in household income, and make the average payment for a borrower making $50,000 per year ~$40. quote:Cover the borrower's unpaid monthly interest, so that unlike other existing income-driven repayment plans, no borrower's loan balance will grow as long as they make their monthly payments—even when that monthly payment is $0 because their income is low. The loan balance is also forgiven after 20 years and 10 years if your balance gets below (or starts below) $12k. quote:Forgive loan balances after 10 years of payments, instead of 20 years, for borrowers with loan balances of $12,000 or less. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 17:16
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Oh poo poo. Undergrad loans only, which are also capped on disbursement around 57k, right? So a big shift on those even though it's one of many moles that needs whacking.
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Aug 24, 2022 17:21
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No it’s two separate things. The 5% cap is undergrad only and everything else is all loans.
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Aug 24, 2022 17:28
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Upgrade posted:No it’s two separate things. The 5% cap is undergrad only and everything else is all loans. That's gigantic if it shakes out that way. I don't think the covered interest matters too much for the plethora of people aiming for 20/25 year forgiveness, but changing the formula for non discretionary will cut down on a ton of their repayments over time. Especially if it's retroactive, because PAYE didn't go back and cover IBR and this might put everything into one streamlined thing. Instead of paying higher monthly payments towards an ever ballooning total the feds will eventually forgive, this will result in lower monthly payments towards a slowly decreasing total the feds will eventually forgive. More money in people's pockets for those 20 years, the only thing really left is how to deal with the taxable event at the end when the forgiveness happens. From the admin's perspective, if people get windfalls (inheritances, etc) they'd be more likely to just pay off the debt since it wasn't ballooning the whole time. mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 17:31
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So I'm one of those knuckle dragging losers that spent eight years in undergrad and borrowed the entire time. I received Pell Grants in the autumn semester the year I turned twenty-four and got them until I graduated. So I should be getting $20k of dorgiveness, correct?
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Aug 24, 2022 17:33
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Star Man posted:So I'm one of those knuckle dragging losers that spent eight years in undergrad and borrowed the entire time. I received Pell Grants in the autumn semester the year I turned twenty-four and got them until I graduated. So I should be getting $20k of dorgiveness, correct? Correct
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Aug 24, 2022 17:33
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I forgot to ask if this will all go towards the principal of the loans first
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Aug 24, 2022 17:35
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"Offical Announcement posted:Forgive loan balances after 10 years of payments, instead of 20 years, for borrowers with loan balances of $12,000 or less. Sorry for the dumb questions, but does this count retroactively? As in, if someone has been paying 10<x<20 years, balances of $12k would be forgiven? Is this calculated after the flat $10k forgiveness?
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Aug 24, 2022 17:44
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I got my student loan debt cleared, i'm pretty happy about that.
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Aug 24, 2022 17:45
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Panzeh posted:I got my student loan debt cleared, i'm pretty happy about that. Same.
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Aug 24, 2022 17:45
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Need some help here because I'm really loving stupid when it comes to figuring stuff like this out (re: student loan forgiveness) I'm paying off about $16k in loans through MOHELA ...would I qualify, or do I have to go through the details on the site to try to figure out what they list my payments as? It's embarrassing to say but I was hoping it'd be easy enough to say, it's through MOHELA so I'm good/not good. It's been 20 years since I took out loans, defaulted and then had them consolidated and paid through MOHELA so I confess my ignorance about the subject.
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Aug 24, 2022 17:45
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My total principal and interest is $96,000, so almost 21 percent of that total being cut off of it at once is a pretty fuckin big deal. Thank gently caress I work in government too
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Aug 24, 2022 17:47
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Any provisions for people working towards pslf where the 10k might be applied as payments are due vs a lump sum?
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Aug 24, 2022 17:48
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Gadfly posted:EDIT: LOL FoxNews right on brand I both love Fox's reaction to the news and also am a little surprised that they aren't trying to spin it as something to thank Republicans for.
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Aug 24, 2022 17:48
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Randalor posted:I both love Fox's reaction to the news and also am a little surprised that they aren't trying to spin it as something to thank Republicans for. Is the graphic supposed to make Biden look bad?
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Aug 24, 2022 17:53
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Big Slammu posted:Is the graphic supposed to make Biden look bad? Yes* *Republicans don't understand what "looks bad" to regular people.
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Aug 24, 2022 17:55
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This forgiveness plan eliminates 95% of my remaining debt, but I would still rather that he went with the 50k number and let all the crab bucketeers suck even more poo poo.Gadfly posted:I'm completely shocked Biden is going forward to forgiving student loan debt. I didn't think he'd have the balls to do it. He's definitely got my vote for 2024. Biden, Coolest President Ever, is the enemy of the republic!
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Aug 24, 2022 17:55
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The Slack Lagoon posted:Any provisions for people working towards pslf where the 10k might be applied as payments are due vs a lump sum? It's a lump. BetterToRuleInHell posted:Need some help here because I'm really loving stupid when it comes to figuring stuff like this out (re: student loan forgiveness) If it is a federally issued/subsidized loan or loan you got through the DOE partnering you with MOHELA, then yes. I don't think it is possible to get a fully private loan from MOHELA now, but I have no idea about 20 years ago. I'd say you are almost surely eligible, but I don't know what MOHELA was doing 20 years ago. Do you know what the actual name of the type of loan is? Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 17:56
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I'm sorry if this is a "do your own homework" question, but does anyone have a link I can share about how student loan forgiveness isn't just an unjustified gimme to people who don't work?
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Aug 24, 2022 18:00
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Anyone who thinks that won't be convinced by any information or talking points.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:06
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Eric Cantonese posted:I'm sorry if this is a "do your own homework" question, but does anyone have a link I can share about how student loan forgiveness isn't just an unjustified gimme to people who don't work? that does not sound like the complaint of someone who will be convinced by reading things
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Aug 24, 2022 18:06
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Eric Cantonese posted:I'm sorry if this is a "do your own homework" question, but does anyone have a link I can share about how student loan forgiveness isn't just an unjustified gimme to people who don't work? If they don’t know (and like) someone who is personally positively affected you’re probably not gonna change their minds.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:07
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