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Fair enough, but I would rather not give up on this particular person just yet.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:07
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Eric Cantonese posted:I'm sorry if this is a "do your own homework" question, but does anyone have a link I can share about how student loan forgiveness isn't just an unjustified gimme to people who don't work? well you could say, for example ,that many people with student loans work and indeed went to college in order to graduate and find better jobs
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Aug 24, 2022 18:08
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That's not totally impossible. But, there isn't any public evidence that he tried to give it to or sell it to anyone. He left it at his golf club under poor protection and let anyone wander around. I mean, you don't have evidence of him literally calling up foreign powers and giving them a personal tour, but he's basically done that by how he stored them. I feel like "Trump got some very very very hard to get documents, and personally oversaw them being moved to his personal residence, but maybe it's just trump being a goofball" is working really hard here. It's like when people were having trouble understanding that Sinema was bought and sold and kept trying to make wierd misogynist arguments.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:12
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Eric Cantonese posted:Fair enough, but I would rather not give up on this particular person just yet. Then you want to google individual stories of hard working people drowning in debt.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:12
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I think it will be hard to convince that person. If they believe that and didn’t go to college, they probably don’t have a lot of sympathy for people who spent a lot of money on a college education. If they did go to college, they probably have survivorship bias, which is pretty hard to argue against.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:13
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Is there a reason why student loans aren’t interest free across the board? Creating an arcane set of criteria where “you don’t pay interest if your income is below a certain level, but once it’s above that level you do” seems unnecessarily complex compared to just saying “we’re no longer collecting interest in any federal education loans”. Especially when that ballooning interest is what created the debt treadmill for IDR/IBR borrowers.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:14
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Space Racist posted:Is there a reason why student loans aren’t interest free across the board? Creating an arcane set of criteria where “you don’t pay interest if your income is below a certain level, but once it’s above that level you do” seems unnecessarily complex compared to just saying “we’re no longer collecting interest in any federal education loans”. Especially when that ballooning interest is what created the debt treadmill for IDR/IBR borrowers. Because Congress sets the interest rate
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Aug 24, 2022 18:15
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https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/22/podcasts/biden-student-loans.html I mean something like this but probably you would want a better example to avoid the response of “Lol it was their choice to get a worthless musical theatre degree.”
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Aug 24, 2022 18:16
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Do we have to fill anything out for the loan forgiveness?
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Aug 24, 2022 18:16
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Space Racist posted:Is there a reason why student loans aren’t interest free across the board? They will be once the new loan type is available (assuming you don't go into default).
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Aug 24, 2022 18:16
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Eric Cantonese posted:Fair enough, but I would rather not give up on this particular person just yet. the position they're taking doesn't make a lot of sense and is clearly an emotional reaction, so you need to figure out why (are they bitter because they worked hard to pay down their student loan debt? didn't go to college? went to college for an unfun major and is upset at basket-weaving majors?) before you can address it, because you do not wind up believing people with student loans do not work without some motivated reasoning to get to that conclusion, and so you need to figure out what is motivating the reasoning.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:16
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Space Racist posted:Is there a reason why student loans aren’t interest free across the board? Creating an arcane set of criteria where “you don’t pay interest if your income is below a certain level, but once it’s above that level you do” seems unnecessarily complex compared to just saying “we’re no longer collecting interest in any federal education loans”. Especially when that ballooning interest is what created the debt treadmill for IDR/IBR borrowers. Ironically, also Joe Biden!
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Aug 24, 2022 18:17
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BigBallChunkyTime posted:Do we have to fill anything out for the loan forgiveness? If the DOE has your income information, then it is automatic. If not, then you have to go to a website and click a button to e-sign a document saying you promise that you made less than $125k last year.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:17
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The Slack Lagoon posted:Because Congress sets the interest rate Ah, so barring a senate of 60 Elizabeth Warrens that’s never happening.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:17
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evilweasel posted:the position they're taking doesn't make a lot of sense and is clearly an emotional reaction, so you need to figure out why (are they bitter because they worked hard to pay down their student loan debt? didn't go to college? went to college for an unfun major and is upset at basket-weaving majors?) before you can address it, because you do not wind up believing people with student loans do not work without some motivated reasoning to get to that conclusion, and so you need to figure out what is motivating the reasoning. A bankruptcy litigation partner at an AmLaw 100 firm. :P
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Aug 24, 2022 18:18
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Eric Cantonese posted:I'm sorry if this is a "do your own homework" question, but does anyone have a link I can share about how student loan forgiveness isn't just an unjustified gimme to people who don't work? How would people with no work ethic get accepted? Assuming the person mentally chose to not work and wasn't screwed over by circumstance, why would they bother to get a degree when they won't have a job which needs it? If the person was simply screwed over by circumstance, why not help them? The core conceit is built on a strawman so logical fallacies are going to be everywhere.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:19
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Space Racist posted:Is there a reason why student loans aren’t interest free across the board? Creating an arcane set of criteria where “you don’t pay interest if your income is below a certain level, but once it’s above that level you do” seems unnecessarily complex compared to just saying “we’re no longer collecting interest in any federal education loans”. Especially when that ballooning interest is what created the debt treadmill for IDR/IBR borrowers. I don’t think that the US government should be giving interest free loans for people going to medical school. Massive medical school debt is a problem doctors have created for themselves. For another example, the US government also should not give people interest free loans for MBAs.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:19
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Eric Cantonese posted:A bankruptcy litigation partner at an AmLaw 100 firm. :P he's bitter because the job market for biglaw associates, including bankruptcy, is incredibly hot right now, meaning he has to pay those associates hilarious amounts of money which lowers his take, and can't be mean to them or they'll just quit and then he'll need to review his own documents
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Aug 24, 2022 18:24
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That's not totally impossible. But, there isn't any public evidence that he tried to give it to or sell it to anyone. My assumption is that there won’t be public evidence. Admitting a President was a compromised spy would be a huge win for the other countries foreign intelligence service.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:31
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WaPo says that 27 million borrowers are eligible for the $20k amount. That's about 60% of all borrowers. That is way more people with existing loans that received a Pell Grant than I was expecting. Also: - Loans must have originated before July 2022 to qualify for forgiveness (so, anyone who got one in the last month or who is thinking about running out to get a $10k one right now are not eligible). - If you or your parents income was below $125k/$250k in either 2020 or 2021, then you qualify. https://twitter.com/JStein_WaPo/status/1562486631583531009
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Aug 24, 2022 18:31
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Paracaidas posted:While an appealing theory of executive power, it is merely that. Who is the harmed party in a challenge to this?
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Aug 24, 2022 18:33
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Eric Cantonese posted:I'm sorry if this is a "do your own homework" question, but does anyone have a link I can share about how student loan forgiveness isn't just an unjustified gimme to people who don't work? I'm being completely off-color when I say this, but someone like that is only going to get that message through to them if it's delivered to their face by a steel pipe. And only maybe. These people are impossible to convince and it ain't worth arguing with them.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:37
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Eric Cantonese posted:A bankruptcy litigation partner at an AmLaw 100 firm. :P Okay, so... I'm the walking stereotype the Republicans trot out of someone who doesn't want to work, wants to spend most of their time on Earth living for themselves and sees market capitalism as stealing my life from me, didn't aspire to do anything society deems valuable and thought if I just kept voting and promoting leftism enough that things would work out. I also know people like your lawyer buddy, am aware of their mentality. A couple of them are the most hard working people I've seen, but they're also the most competitive. "Competitive" is about the antithesis of my worldview, which is probably why I am like I am and they are like they are. These people think that because they did the homework and got good grades when I pushed papers away and laid my head down on my desk trying to catch 45 minutes more naptime, that they got their first jobs while I played on the Dreamcast all day, that here and now the reaping comes where they get six or seven figure incomes and I get to worry about how not to live in a sewer drain every single year. Haha, karma! Often to these people anything that distorts outcomes to reflect anything other than the competition is a Lucky Ducky comic. The real truth is that the people he's talking about probably didn't go to college. They maybe took some community college courses at best. Either their grades weren't good enough to get into college, even if they could get accepted it's possible their families decided it was not worth taking the financial risk for someone with such low potential to succeed. Consequently the "bums" of the world are more often not interested in student loan debt forgiveness for the reasons I've brought up on SA time and time again when it comes up: I didn't even get a chance to go college, the system actively did not want me, why am I stuck paying a part of someone else's bill? I got talked to a lot of times by people here about the need for it and I'm not so hard on it now, I actually like Biden's plan because it's so means-tested and because I'm lovely neoliberal scum who will roll my eyes if people talk about the need for the government to pay some Google engineer's college debt. Most of us dropout deadend takers actually envy people who got to go to college to some extent, because we know lots of people who did and not going makes us unusual in our peer group. Our initial, selfish, kneejerk reaction is that debt forgiveness is not going to do anything for us. It's just something that has to happen because all the boomers thought "college degree = big income" and overeducated too many kids, resulting in the cost of college blowing up like it has.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:40
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:I'm surprised you didn't realize that, given that I remember seeing you post about the charges as a news item ITT a few weeks ago and noticing that you'd originally typed "nobody was hurt" in your summary. I typed a response correcting this inaccuracy, but refreshed the thread after typing it to be sure I wasn't making a redundant only to find that you'd edited your summary to say "nobody was killed." I had assumed that you'd just had time to more thoroughly read the article in the tweet you linked, which said outright that prosecutors were filing charges because the other driver in the collision had been injured as a result of Paul Pelosi's drunk driving, but I guess I was mistaken. At least you are aware now Please refrain from this sort of grudge posting unless it involves a truly profound pwn.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:40
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The Slack Lagoon posted:Any provisions for people working towards pslf where the 10k might be applied as payments are due vs a lump sum? Ha, now that would be funny.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:52
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Need some help here because I'm really loving stupid when it comes to figuring stuff like this out (re: student loan forgiveness) Hey! I got my loans 20 years ago as well and pay through MOHELA. They are likely just the servicer so you need to know what loan types you actually have. The easiest way to do that is through the official StudentAid.gov site (which will have access to your loan info as well). I just did this last night to double confirm I have FFEL loans. Forbes.com says posted:If you are a federal student loan borrower and you are unsure if your loan is a FFEL loan, you can access your federal student loan records at StudentAid.gov. Once logged in to your account screen, click the "View Details" button in the "My Aid" box. You can click the “Download My Aid Data” link to view a breakdown of your Direct loan and FFEL loan balances. This will just download a txt file with tons of your loan information, but the most important info should be at the top few lines where it tells the loan type. Hope that helps!
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Aug 24, 2022 18:52
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BonoMan posted:Hey! I got my loans 20 years ago as well and pay through MOHELA. They are likely just the servicer so you need to know what loan types you actually have. That is a great post and much more specific than mine. Thanks for this.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:54
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Eric Cantonese posted:I'm sorry if this is a "do your own homework" question, but does anyone have a link I can share about how student loan forgiveness isn't just an unjustified gimme to people who don't work? It has nothing to do with your work status other than your upper income limit, which is at a very generous cap. Crab bucket mentality is a logical fallacy. We're the wealthiest country in the history of the world, we should start acting like it. People will be able to move this income sink around into things like housing payments and increase lower and middle-class wealth and aspirational ability.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:59
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BonoMan posted:The easiest way to do that is through the official StudentAid.gov site Unsurprisingly, this website is currently getting absolutely crushed
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Aug 24, 2022 19:05
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DOE is saying they have info on 8 million borrowers who they can automatically just do that cancelation for, is there any info on what makes you that 8 million in comparison to everyone else who is going to need to fill out the online form in a few weeks?Jaxyon posted:Unsurprisingly, this website is currently getting absolutely crushed It's an incredibly slow site even on a normal day.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:12
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Whichever DOJ/DOE staff attorney came up with this legal justification needs a bonus or a raise for their creativity. I haven't read the legal advisory yet, but if they manage to argue for this without citing the higher education act of 1965, then that is both needlessly complicated and very impressive. https://twitter.com/stevenportnoy/status/1562485537063124993 "Thanks, Osama." Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 19:13
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Thom12255 posted:
Eh I was using it last night and it seemed totally fine.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:15
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projecthalaxy posted:It's hard to quiet the conspiracy brain/ "clancyposting" on this for me. Like you said It's very different than his normal.behavior that what my brain decides is he had [putin/mbs/soros/etc] in his ear going get me this this this but if he did that he'd probably have already given it to them? And if you were just getting cool stuff to show your friends you wouldn't get like blueprints and intel records you'd get like what really happened to kennedy or their FBI dossiers. I think the most amusing conspiracy brain option is that Trumps complaint's about the establishment defense and intelligence community aka the "deepstate" and their alliance against him have some grain of truth. I mean on the one hand you would think that there has to be at least some nervousness at the state department, pentagon, homeland, etc about the damage Trump has done (and will do) to the balance of power and American position in geopolitics. In his first term Trump was basically at war with his generals the entire time, undid decades of U.S. Foreign Policy progress, and was constantly on the verge of getting the US into the deepest of poo poo internationally. The fact that we're still in NATO and that Biden wasn't inaugurated in the middle of a war with Iran is a credit to the system barely holding together.* And all of the above insanity is without even getting into the fact that if there aren't Russian, Chinese, or Saudi foreign assets walking around at this very moment with Nuclear state secrets that they dug out of Trumps sock drawer it will be only because of sheer dumb luck. So you can see how there might be some folks in the U.S. defense and intelligence community, maybe some old school cold warriors and power brokers, perhaps some of Cheney's old NeoCon buddies with their Bond villain grand plans from PNAC, sitting around discussing how ridiculous it is that we're potentially going to lose the empire because one clown rear end reality tv star won a popularity contest. On the other hand reality adhered fairly closely to Occam's razor before Trump blundered into frame and started his fourth wall breaking Deadpool monologues. So it's more likely that there is no conspiracy at all, and everyone's been going out of their way to give Trump a break, but he's such an amazing credit to the DSM-5 that he continues to stubbornly insist on walking into every rake. * A few weeks ago the New Yorker put together a comprehensive, deep dive on Trump vs his generals. https://twitter.com/PaulDEaton52/status/1562480173244895233 -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 19:15
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Gadfly posted:I'm completely shocked Biden is going forward to forgiving student loan debt. I didn't think he'd have the balls to do it. He's definitely got my vote for 2024.  oh no President Biden is making it rain money...that's bad apparently
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Aug 24, 2022 19:18
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Thom12255 posted:DOE is saying they have info on 8 million borrowers who they can automatically just do that cancelation for, is there any info on what makes you that 8 million in comparison to everyone else who is going to need to fill out the online form in a few weeks? It's if they already have your income information on file, which they do if you're on an IBR plan and therefore need to file your income with them yearly, or maybe if you're a current student and they've got a recent FAFSA.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:19
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Youth Decay posted:They really got nothing for this do they? The Wrong People might get it
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Aug 24, 2022 19:24
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Youth Decay posted:They really got nothing for this do they? I wasn't expecting Fox to be the ones to resurrect Diamond Joe Biden, but here we are.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:24
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:If the DOE has your income information, then it is automatic. Do you know if these kinds of things are pre-tax or post-tax? If it is pre-tax I'm SOL (but happy for those that are not!) but if it is post-tax/after deductions I miiiiiiight be eligible.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:26
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I'm also an idiot and trying to digest this. Do public employees count as public school teachers? This will be huge for a large group of friends either way.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:30
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E-Diddy posted:Do you know if these kinds of things are pre-tax or post-tax? If it is pre-tax I'm SOL (but happy for those that are not!) but if it is post-tax/after deductions I miiiiiiight be eligible. It's adjusted gross income. Not pre-tax, but only deductions that impact AGI count, so not post-tax either.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:30
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