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ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

Willo567 posted:

So is there any chance of Nintendo using this in their games, or patching older games to use it?
I mentioned it earlier but I highly doubt Nintendo themselves would use it, and they may even forbid third parties from using it too.

I'm really struggling to think of an effective DRM strategy that "detects emulators" and wouldn't be a liability for future backwards compatibility.

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Augus
Mar 9, 2015


jackhunter64 posted:

It's to stop people 'preserving' games by emulating a rom dumped from a cartridge three days before the release date.

you should call the cops on them

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

ExcessBLarg! posted:

I mentioned it earlier but I highly doubt Nintendo themselves would use it, and they may even forbid third parties from using it too.

I'm really struggling to think of an effective DRM strategy that "detects emulators" and wouldn't be a liability for future backwards compatibility.

presumably you have the pre-denuvo source code to form the base of the port and/or an understanding of exactly what denuvo is checking when you write the backwards compatibility emulator, which fan emulators will have to reverse-engineer the hard way

Mega64
May 23, 2008

I took the octopath less travelered,

And it made one-eighth the difference.
A 3D Sonic game where you run forward, jump over gaps, and run through loops?

I mean what are people expecting? Of course it's going to play similar to the other games and have a similar first level or whatever. The games usually differentiate themselves later on.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


Mega64 posted:

A 3D Sonic game where you run forward, jump over gaps, and run through loops?

I mean what are people expecting? Of course it's going to play similar to the other games and have a similar first level or whatever. The games usually differentiate themselves later on.

I mean the tutorial just flat out has the exact same layout as the tutorial from Sonic Unleashed but also this is definitely just supposed to be a cute little reference and people are weirdly desperate to find things to get mad about with this game for some reason

Hammer Bro.
Jul 7, 2007

THUNDERDOME LOSER

I'm still not convinced it's a cute reference versus some red-handed archery.

Cute references are usually obvious without some third party pointing them out.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Hammer Bro. posted:

I'm still not convinced it's a cute reference versus some red-handed archery.

Cute references are usually obvious without some third party pointing them out.

It is extremely obvious if you've actually played the game.

Like I get distrusting Sega but it's such an obvious reference to the same franchise that it's kinda silly to assume it's EVIL LEVEL STEALING

ExcessBLarg!
Sep 1, 2001

cheetah7071 posted:

presumably you have the pre-denuvo source code to form the base of the port and/or an understanding of exactly what denuvo is checking when you write the backwards compatibility emulator, which fan emulators will have to reverse-engineer the hard way
The more general form of that argument is that community emulators require reverse engineering the underlying hardware while in-house emulators are developed with access to the hardware documentation.

Despite that, community emulators have always been light years ahead of Nintendo's in house ones.

Rupert Buttermilk
Apr 15, 2007

🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

Despite growing up with the first 3 games, Sonic games now feel like they're 'movie' or 'tv show' games; the kind that writers who have no idea what they're talking about put into their scripts.

I realize that Prince of Persia is a real game, but I'm reminded of this infamous clip from the show Life, where an excel spreadsheet is unlocked after someone beats some level.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

Despite growing up with the first 3 games, Sonic games now feel like they're 'movie' or 'tv show' games; the kind that writers who have no idea what they're talking about put into their scripts.

I realize that Prince of Persia is a real game, but I'm reminded of this infamous clip from the show Life, where an excel spreadsheet is unlocked after someone beats some level.

The Sonic the Hedgehog movies are pretty much the most popular video game movies ever aside from like Detective Pikachu (and Rampage if you count that as a game movie and not a movie featuring The Rock.) It's a weirdly consistently successful franchise for something people seem to dislike so much.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


Hammer Bro. posted:

I'm still not convinced it's a cute reference versus some red-handed archery.

Cute references are usually obvious without some third party pointing them out.

I didn’t notice that Zelda 1’s map was in the corner of Zelda 2’s map until someone pointed it out. I also didn’t notice that Lon Lon Ranch was faithfully recreated in Breath of the Wild until someone pointed it out.

also like nobody had even seen this level before that tweet lol

Augus fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Aug 25, 2022

wash bucket
Feb 21, 2006

Mister Facetious posted:

Yeah, i don't remember what YouTube channel showed it, but apparently it will eat 10-20% of your fps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgZewSIXawQ

Apparently Capcom was fine with patching it out months later because by that point it had done it's job. They just wanted to stymie piracy during the launch when they expected to make most of their sales.

lol if Denuvo has ever been baked into the physical release of a game though. Not sure if that's happened yet.

American McGay
Feb 28, 2010

by sebmojo

Hammer Bro. posted:

I'm still not convinced it's a cute reference versus some red-handed archery.

Cute references are usually obvious without some third party pointing them out.
You're weird.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


imagine if kirby fans reacted this way to all those cute level design references in the Guest Star Allies dlc

WarpDogs
May 1, 2009

I'm just a normal, functioning member of the human race, and there's no way anyone can prove otherwise.
well Kirby has a long history of producing excellent games and frequently celebrates its past with joy and love, and Sonic is the exact opposite on all counts

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

WarpDogs posted:

well Kirby has a long history of producing excellent games and frequently celebrates its past with joy and love, and Sonic is the exact opposite on all counts

I think you may exist in bizarro world where "Sonic doesn't make frequent callbacks to its previous games" is somehow true and not where the last three games of note were Sonic Generations, Sonic Forces (which, while it sucked, was full of callbacks) and Sonic Mania.

Like you can say what you want but Sonic Generations and Sonic Mania are the literal definition of "celebrates its past with joy and love."

B33rChiller
Aug 18, 2011




Oh, the question of doom vs quake preferences, quake just barely has an edge over all other videogames in my mind. This is for the experience it gave me the first time I put the game disk in my cd player ghetto blaster.

No other game has surprised me with an included album of ambient Nine Inch Nails tracks.
I dubbed that to tape right away!

Larryb
Oct 5, 2010

ImpAtom posted:

I think you may exist in bizarro world where "Sonic doesn't make frequent callbacks to its previous games" is somehow true and not where the last three games of note were Sonic Generations, Sonic Forces (which, while it sucked, was full of callbacks) and Sonic Mania.

Like you can say what you want but Sonic Generations and Sonic Mania are the literal definition of "celebrates its past with joy and love."

Hell, it’s been doing it since Sonic Adventure technically (which included its own version of both Ice Cap and Sky Chase)

Going back even further than that, Sonic 3 also revisited the bosses of both Green Hill and Metropolis during Sonic & Tails’ version of Sky Sanctuary

Larryb fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Aug 25, 2022

Evil Fluffy
Jul 13, 2009

Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Detective No. 27 posted:

Standalone. It's a Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest situation. New characters and world. Not direct sequels.

The Xenoblade games are all connected. You don’t need to play 1 and 2 first but those and Future Connected give some context for 3.


Also a bunch of dragon quest games are directly connected to one another as sequels and prequels. I think 7-10 might be the only ones unconnected to other mainline DQ games and I’m not certain about 10. I’m excluding the DQM games and DQ Heroes since drawing on the entire series is a part of those games. Especially Musou games.

Heroic Yoshimitsu
Jan 15, 2008

ImpAtom posted:

Sonic Forces (which, while it sucked)


wrong

Stux
Nov 17, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 21 hours!
yeah it was very popular with people who want to gently caress their oc.

Jezza of OZPOS
Mar 21, 2018

GET LOSE❌🗺️, YOUS CAN'T COMPARE😤 WITH ME 💪POWERS🇦🇺
I loving love the quake ost and it reminds me a lot of the fragile

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007


It'd make a counterargument but it turns out the stage ended before I could finish this sentence.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


sonic forces had infinite's theme so it can't be all bad

hatty
Feb 28, 2011

Pork Pro
Infinite deserves to be in a good game

Upsidads
Jan 11, 2007
Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates


I called the cops on wario and the gave him badge and concerning complicated handshake

Detective No. 27
Jun 7, 2006

Evil Fluffy posted:

The Xenoblade games are all connected. You don’t need to play 1 and 2 first but those and Future Connected give some context for 3.


Also a bunch of dragon quest games are directly connected to one another as sequels and prequels. I think 7-10 might be the only ones unconnected to other mainline DQ games and I’m not certain about 10. I’m excluding the DQM games and DQ Heroes since drawing on the entire series is a part of those games. Especially Musou games.

I’m aware of those connections, but for the most part, to the average person and the stories themselves without any DLC post game stuff, they’re all standalone and the connections within the main story usually just come in the form of nods to the fans. Dragon Quest sequels usually take hundreds of years apart and any of them make good jumping points if you’re a new player and won’t be lost if say you choose something like Yakuza 4 as your first entry in the series. My ultimate point was that you don’t need to play through XB1-2 to enjoy 3.

WHY BONER NOW
Mar 6, 2016

Pillbug
Man the new Into the Breach content is really really good

Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?
How do the old Devil May Cry games hold up? 1-3 are on sale and I’m thinking about getting all of them.

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007

I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

:canada:

Rolo posted:

How do the old Devil May Cry games hold up? 1-3 are on sale and I’m thinking about getting all of them.

1-3-5 are the ones to get. 4 is alright, dmc: dmc-dmc Devil may cry: the DMC'ening is okay, 2 is boring af, with basically zero difficulty

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Kin posted:

Eh, it's quite a bit weaker than Doom 2016.

The "arena shooter" to "platforming" gameplay loop is so obvious that it starts to get quite repetitive and a bit dull.

There's no real exploration and larger integrated world design in the sense that there was in the first game, it's just 'oh this looks like an arena, oh it is an arena, [frantic enemy battle], there's my way out, let me just jump on all of these platforms, oh this looks like an arena...'

Even the levels are completely disconnected. You warp to each of them from a central hub.

It really comes down to what you want from a Doom game, but I found it tedious.

There's also a nearly unkillable enemy type, even on the easiest difficulty setting, because it has some sort of stupid shield IIRC. You have to kill it in a really awkward way.

The fundamental problem with Doom Eternal is it wants to have its cake and eat it too on its gameplay loop; You can't have a loop of "empty weapon, cycle to next, chainsaw to restore ammo", with a small limit on each ammo type to encourage this routine, and then turn around and have challenges antithetically built around the use of specific weaponry that don't even give you the ammo to attempt them with (or at least restore lost ammo on failure).

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007

I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

:canada:
D:E also had that lovely "wander for a bit, forced arena section, wander for a bit, forced arena section, repeat until game ends" bullshit that completely destroys the suspension of disbelief.

Like, I got tired of that in Japanese action games ten years ago, and it was already outdated game design even then.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 21 hours!
that isnt the loop. you can basically use whatever you want as often as you want because you get so much ammo. i played most of the game using shotgun and the railgun thing on nightmare with 0 issues so i am afraid i have to conclude this is inf act a skill issue.

also you dont really need to use the special kills theyre for fun. a cacodemon is still going to die if you just blow it away.

Stux
Nov 17, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 21 hours!
"restore lost ammo on failure" are we living on two different planets. put the chainsaw into a zombie bro.

Sonel
Sep 14, 2007
Lipstick Apathy

Rolo posted:

How do the old Devil May Cry games hold up? 1-3 are on sale and I’m thinking about getting all of them.

As long as you keep in mind these games came out around 20 years ago and you prepare yourself for some play station 2 era game play/graphics their good. Except 2, skip that one.

Dpulex
Feb 26, 2013

Rolo posted:

How do the old Devil May Cry games hold up? 1-3 are on sale and I’m thinking about getting all of them.

3, 4, and 5 are worth playing and do the arena, wander, arena game structure way better than doom eternal.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


Rolo posted:

How do the old Devil May Cry games hold up? 1-3 are on sale and I’m thinking about getting all of them.

1 is great but kinda dated
2 is a garbage fire lol, they had to change directors 6 months before release because nothing was getting done and the rest of the development was just a mad rush to put together the bare minimum product in time
3 is amazing

Augus fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Aug 25, 2022

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007

I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

:canada:

Augus posted:


2 is a garbage fire lol, they had to change directors 6 months before release because they barely even had a game and the rest of the development was just a mad rush to put together the bare minimum product in time

I recall the gamespot review for 2 saying you could beat the entire game just using your pistols.

CRAZY KNUCKLES FAN
Aug 12, 2022

by Fluffdaddy
3>1>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2

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The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Snake Maze posted:

It doesn’t seem like their style to use a third party tool like that for new games, I’d expect an inhouse drm if they felt the need for one. I guess it’s not impossible but I think if we see it used it’ll be in stuff like ubisoft titles.

ExcessBLarg! posted:

I mentioned it earlier but I highly doubt Nintendo themselves would use it, and they may even forbid third parties from using it too.
All of this has happened before, and it will happen again. Except probably a bit more effectively than that, given that last I heard there was only one group/person still capable of cracking Denuvo and they were only doing one game at a time at a speed determined by donations.

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