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SourKraut posted:From talking to some coworkers today, apparently very pissed. My mom spares no opportunity to cut me down, so she texted me how taxes are going to go up now because of this and a bunch of other bullshit, and how this forgiveness is bullshit because she had to pay off her Parent Plus Loans and how I can't just sign a paper and not expect to pay on a house or a car. I can't wait for this broad to die. Too bad she's going to live until she's a hundred. My whole fuckin' life it's been about how I don't know things cost money, I need a job with insurance, and so on.
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Aug 25, 2022 00:51
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cr0y posted:Do I want to know what the gently caress kiwifarm is? It's a forum full of far-right gamergate types, dedicated to cyberstalking and doxxing women, minorities, LGBTQ+ folks, and anyone who seems too leftist Young Freud posted:Really want to know how this went down. Don't congress people have Secret Service details? I'd imagine a bunch of SWAT vans showing up outside and a couple of secret service agents show up flashing badges and the amped-up SWAT team members suddenly deflating and packing up their gear. The full police report was posted publicly. The dispatcher figured out it was MTG's address and informed the cops en route, so when they arrived they just sat out front ringing the doorbell repeatedly for several minutes.
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Aug 25, 2022 00:54
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So how popular with the broad public will this EO be? I would think that lots of Republican parents have kids with debts that they'd love to get erased and even some conservative graduates as well. I mean, how popular were the stimulus checks? This is that but maybe even better.
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Aug 25, 2022 01:00
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small butter posted:So how popular with the broad public will this EO be? I would think that lots of Republican parents have kids with debts that they'd love to get erased and even some conservative graduates as well. I mean, how popular were the stimulus checks? This is that but maybe even better. It's going to be really, really popular, and it will also create so much Republican bad press.
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Aug 25, 2022 01:02
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BiggerBoat posted:Think helldump or a a website full of people that stalk ChrisChan weirdly, they thought 4chan went too far with. Also SA is where stalking ChrisChan started, for those who do not know.
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Aug 25, 2022 01:03
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Young Freud posted:Really want to know how this went down. Don't congress people have Secret Service details? I'd imagine a bunch of SWAT vans showing up outside and a couple of secret service agents show up flashing badges and the amped-up SWAT team members suddenly deflating and packing up their gear. Normal Congress people don’t get any security unless there is some sort of threat made to them that is specific enough. Usually it’s leadership only; and the lower levels might have part time security. Schumer, Pelosi, McConnell and McCarthy have full security details. All are provided by capitol police, not secret service.
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Aug 25, 2022 01:07
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small butter posted:So how popular with the broad public will this EO be? I would think that lots of Republican parents have kids with debts that they'd love to get erased and even some conservative graduates as well. I mean, how popular were the stimulus checks? This is that but maybe even better. Something around 20% of Americans (I'm including spouses, parents, children, etc of those who got relief) will be directly impacted by this, a good fraction of those in a life-changing way. It's a pretty big deal. I think anyone who is unhappy that they got "skipped over" will get over it quick once the news cycles in a week. There's no direct negative impact on them, it's just sour grapes. I don't see it being electorally negative in any way, and massively positive for at least 5-10% of Americans, which is not a small number.
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Aug 25, 2022 01:23
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freeasinbeer posted:Normal Congress people don’t get any security unless there is some sort of threat made to them that is specific enough. And the Capitol Police protection for them is like "two ladies in a guest house or an unmarked car that follows them", not some big ordeal like President's get. Enough to ward off most low effort assailants, and to offer some armed response that's always available but that's it.
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Aug 25, 2022 01:30
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Vahakyla posted:And the Capitol Police protection for them is like "two ladies in a guest house or an unmarked car that follows them", not some big ordeal like President's get. Enough to ward off most low effort assailants, and to offer some armed response that's always available but that's it. Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 01:34
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Congresspeople don’t get poo poo. On average, somewhere between 10 and 20% of The House sleeps full time on futons in their offices because they don’t want to pay DC rent. (There’s apparently an unwritten ban on Senators doing this to maintain the dignity of the office.) I am still enraged that Trump existing destroyed Alpha House prematurely. on the plus side, I am fairly certain that Governor Butch Otter watched the debate scene and took notes Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 01:51
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I am still enraged that Trump existing destroyed Alpha House prematurely. This is a-historical. Alpha House, while wonderful, ended in 2014, which was a whole year before that fateful escalator ride.
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Aug 25, 2022 01:56
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:It's kind of brilliant that debt forgiveness seems to be camouflaging the new loan type that basically makes college free for anyone who makes less than $33k and gives you a 90-95% discount if you make between $33k and $50k for the 10 to 20 years after graduation. I legit think that the politicians just don't realize how big a deal that is, just like they didn't realize how much +600/week unemployment would be.
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Aug 25, 2022 02:00
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Rappaport posted:This is a-historical. Alpha House, while wonderful, ended in 2014, which was a whole year before that fateful escalator ride. yes but surely they would have resurre- okay fine I'm owned
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Aug 25, 2022 02:03
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GreyjoyBastard posted:yes but surely they would have resurre- Please don't tell me this means I have to mod in your stead 
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Aug 25, 2022 02:09
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small butter posted:So how popular with the broad public will this EO be? I would think that lots of Republican parents have kids with debts that they'd love to get erased and even some conservative graduates as well. I mean, how popular were the stimulus checks? This is that but maybe even better. it's still something I'm checking in on various groups to see how they're reacting, but my personal opinion is that anybody who was going to refuse to vote Dem because of this already was going to because of the rhetoric around inflation, and it combined with Roe being killed has the potential to really fire up people who were on the fence or figured they'd sit out. I think it heightens the partisan divide as the newly activated base is not going to be broadly representative but a mild, sunny day heightens the partisan divide nowadays so gently caress it. More likely all of this will be forgotten by the right by next week and will be ancient history when October and the migrant caravan stories return to do their nativist duty. I'm not sure if this will be enough to overcome gerrymandering and how profoundly and proudly anti-democratic our system is, but there's probably a lot of people in the WH who can think about November without having an anxiety attack now
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Aug 25, 2022 02:11
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How in the gently caress would the student loan forgiveness add to inflation? Nobody was paying anything so it's not like it would inject more cash. Wouldn't it be a demand flattening when the payments kick back in? I am seeing this argument everywhere and it makes no sense unless you think inflation is just things that you don't like.
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Aug 25, 2022 02:14
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:How in the gently caress would the student loan forgiveness add to inflation? Nobody was paying anything so it's not like it would inject more cash. Wouldn't it be a demand flattening when the payments kick back in? The boogey man idea is that they'll now have all of this extra cash to just go hog wild with spending! Which of course is nonsense.
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Aug 25, 2022 02:16
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:How in the gently caress would the student loan forgiveness add to inflation? Nobody was paying anything so it's not like it would inject more cash. Wouldn't it be a demand flattening when the payments kick back in? it is most likely true that even with the current pause it has an impact on inflation - just the feeling of being in crushing debt likely reduces some amount of spending even if the debt is not currently being collected. extending the pause has an impact on inflation, and forgiving the debt lessens the impact ending the pause it will have. the issue, though, is that it isn't going to have very much even under the most aggressive assumptions, so whatever. that's the key: yes, it'll have an impact on inflation, but how many zeros after the decimal point in the 0.x increase in inflation.
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Aug 25, 2022 02:20
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https://twitter.com/SIfill_/status/1562577293536825345?t=a0eq5sEtZo6XpFVZ75TtFQ&s=19
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Aug 25, 2022 02:22
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imho they should get some best estimates for how much extra money will be spent by the productive classes and offset it by destroying that much money held by the unproductive ones The loan cap repayments are very intriguing to me, someone who has been contemplating getting a degree in something I like for the purposes of career advancement and the "Degree Y/N" part of the qualifications, at the very least. It's a hard sell to say that anybody who didn't get any forgiveness doesn't still benefit from it, even without having to go into macro-level analysis that most people will immediately tune out of
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Aug 25, 2022 02:23
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Well, the argument I’m having doesn’t seem to be going well. He’s sent me a a Daily Wire clip. Anyway… a percentage breakdown of who benefits might be nice though because the argument that I’m running into a lot is that it’s unfairly advantageous to rich people.
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Aug 25, 2022 02:24
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Just want to cross post this here from the Student Loan Forgiveness FAQ and Discussion thread, because several goons have reported being successfully refunded and I want to make sure the word gets out:Upgrade posted:If you’ve voluntarily made payments since the pause (Feb 2020) you can request a refund for those payments Mecca-Benghazi posted:Called up my student loan servicer, Great Lakes, on hold for half an hour. I was armed with the amounts I wanted refunded (I paid ~1.1k since March 13, 2020, which is the cutoff), but when I got through, I said I wanted a refund of the money since the student loan deferrals started. The guy was like "sure, looks like it's these two payments, I was gonna ask if you wanted PSLF, but it's not worth it for this amount, and you want the refund for the 10k forgiveness?" (I didn't say a word about the forgiveness but I imagine they've been getting a lot of calls)
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Aug 25, 2022 02:24
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BonoMan posted:The boogey man idea is that they'll now have all of this extra cash to just go hog wild with spending! Which of course is nonsense. I've been studiously keeping $20000 in reserve for when repayments start, and now I'm free to unleash it all directly on the economy 
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Aug 25, 2022 02:25
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Eric Cantonese posted:Well, the argument I’m having doesn’t seem to be going well. He’s sent me a a Daily Wire clip. Still probably too early for any real detailed analysis and I suspect that no amount of evidence you provide is going to supercede Facebook videos with them, but rich people use debt to make more money because they have the option to take it or not in the first place. Forgiveness doesn't help them at all. Normal rear end people having a couple hundred+ extra to spend every month will help every local economy more than every tax cut ever done combined, and that's from capitalist analysis not any waters we commies tread in. If it helps rich people so much why are so many rich people angry as hell about it?
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Aug 25, 2022 02:28
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susan b buffering posted:I've been studiously keeping $20000 in reserve for when repayments start, and now I'm free to unleash it all directly on the economy You fool, you'll doom us all!
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Aug 25, 2022 02:34
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Epic High Five posted:Still probably too early for any real detailed analysis and I suspect that no amount of evidence you provide is going to supercede Facebook videos with them, but rich people use debt to make more money because they have the option to take it or not in the first place. Forgiveness doesn't help them at all. Normal rear end people having a couple hundred+ extra to spend every month will help every local economy more than every tax cut ever done combined, and that's from capitalist analysis not any waters we commies tread in. Because it doesn;t help the right type of rich person obviously.
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Aug 25, 2022 02:51
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Heck Yes! Loam! posted:How in the gently caress would the student loan forgiveness add to inflation? Nobody was paying anything so it's not like it would inject more cash. Wouldn't it be a demand flattening when the payments kick back in? those lazy kids will just blow it on new smartphones, drugs and avocado toast! Driving up the cost of everything because I said so! 
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Aug 25, 2022 02:57
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Eric Cantonese posted:I'm sorry if this is a "do your own homework" question, but does anyone have a link I can share about how student loan forgiveness isn't just an unjustified gimme to people who don't work? It really just boils down to this chart:  Obviously a bit old, but the basic trend has continued over the last decade, and I like this one for its clarity. The cost of college has risen much faster than wages have. That means people are paying more for college (and having to take out more debt to cover those costs), but not really seeing an increase in their ability to pay it back after college. Even though they're coming out of college and (statistically) earning more than a high school graduate would, that earnings advantage isn't enough to quickly pay off their debts. Nobody's making six figgies right out of college unless they're related to a banker or a lawyer. And it's worse if they end up underemployed for a while first, since entry-level workers are often the first to get shafted when our messy and unstable 21st-century economy takes a stumble. Even if they'll earn more money over the long run, the debt doesn't sit around and wait for their financial situation to stabilize - the interest will keep piling up regardless.
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Aug 25, 2022 03:03
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Star Man posted:My mom spares no opportunity to cut me down, so she texted me how taxes are going to go up now because of this and a bunch of other bullshit, and how this forgiveness is bullshit because she had to pay off her Parent Plus Loans and how I can't just sign a paper and not expect to pay on a house or a car. Sorry my goon, I know exactly the feeling.
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Aug 25, 2022 03:31
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Star Man posted:My mom spares no opportunity to cut me down, so she texted me how taxes are going to go up now because of this and a bunch of other bullshit, and how this forgiveness is bullshit because she had to pay off her Parent Plus Loans and how I can't just sign a paper and not expect to pay on a house or a car. Sorry. That sounds pretty toxic. 
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Aug 25, 2022 03:34
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Star Man posted:My mom spares no opportunity to cut me down, so she texted me how taxes are going to go up now because of this and a bunch of other bullshit, and how this forgiveness is bullshit because she had to pay off her Parent Plus Loans and how I can't just sign a paper and not expect to pay on a house or a car. That sucks a lot. Not telling you how to live your life but I have found no longer communicating with narcissist blood relatives to be incredibly helpful to one’s mental health. Even better if the communication ends full-stop without a show about it or even a simple “we’re done”. As far as any of us know, one only has one chance at life. Why waste it on awful people, blood relatives or not?
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Aug 25, 2022 03:41
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I'm happy people get student loan forgiveness, I just wish I qualified Feels dumb to complain about having student debt while being over the income cap but I had the Pell grant and this would have cut my debt load by 2/3. This poo poo should have just been universal, but no. Had to be means tested, of course. I didn't get any of the Covid stimulus payments either. I also happen to live in an extremely high cost of living area where basic six figures is equivalent to about $50,000 elsewhere and my rent is close to $3,000/month. Means testing is dumb, if they can forgive the debt for people making under $125k then they can forgive the debt for everyone. My partner has over $200k in debt thanks to grad school, and this forgiveness helps her gently caress-all. She's never going to pay that off, ever. She'll die with that student loan debt still hanging around her neck. The $10,000 forgiveness she's eligible for will be erased in a few months of interest accrual on her Federal loans. Just loving cancel all of it you useless poo poo cretins
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Aug 25, 2022 03:43
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Well my very far left friend who has no debt said "well they should have given a tax credit to people who already paid them off" So.....
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Aug 25, 2022 03:45
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HonorableTB posted:I'm happy people get student loan forgiveness, I just wish I qualified This part at least shouldn't be an issue anymore under the new IBR plan, no?
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Aug 25, 2022 03:45
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Quorum posted:This part at least shouldn't be an issue anymore under the new IBR plan, no? I don't really know what the new IBR rules are, because we've both just accepted that our student loan debts will be forever-bills and a permanent living expense just like power and Internet bills are. We'll never pay them off, it's just a bill for being alive and believing our parents when they said to go to college or else we'd be flipping burgers forever.
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Aug 25, 2022 03:51
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HonorableTB posted:I don't really know what the new IBR rules are, because we've both just accepted that our student loan debts will be forever-bills and a permanent living expense just like power and Internet bills are. We'll never pay them off, it's just a bill for being alive and believing our parents when they said to go to college or else we'd be flipping burgers forever. The new loan modification rules they announced today with the payment cap of 5% of discretionary income above ~$33k is automatically forgiven after 10 years if the loan is less than $12k. The new loan type and capitalization rules are stealthily a much bigger change than the one-time forgiveness in the long run. quote:Require borrowers to pay no more than 5% of their discretionary income monthly on undergraduate loans. This is down from the 10% available under the most recent income-driven repayment plan. quote:Raise the amount of income that is considered non-discretionary income and therefore is protected from repayment, guaranteeing that no borrower earning under 225% of the federal poverty level—about the annual equivalent of a $15 minimum wage for a single borrower—will have to make a monthly payment. This will cut the average payment in half, guarantee a $0 monthly payment for individuals with incomes below $33k or families of 4 below $62,500 in household income, and make the average payment for a borrower making $50,000 per year ~$40 - $60. This is the big relevant change your partner: VVVVVVV quote:Cover the borrower's unpaid monthly interest, so that unlike other existing income-driven repayment plans, no borrower's loan balance will grow as long as they make their monthly payments—even when that monthly payment is $0 because their income is low. The loan balance is also forgiven after 20 years or 10 years if your balance gets below (or starts below) $12k. quote:Forgive loan balances after 10 years of payments, instead of 20 years, for borrowers with loan balances of $12,000 or less. https://twitter.com/justinsink/status/1562470265665495040 Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 03:53
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the big question on my mind - what are the chances our extremist SCOTUS messes this up?
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Aug 25, 2022 03:58
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The new loan modification rules they announced today with the payment cap of 5% of discretionary income above ~$33k is automatically forgiven after 10 years if the loan is less than $12k. The thing that's unclear to me and what matters the most to me personally is if the change in discretionary income is *just* for the new IDR terms, or if this change applies to all loan types. I have a consolidated Direct Loan on PSLF which I had to take out to consolidate my undergraduate and graduate loans in order to qualify (and which we were all encouraged to do to get the temporary waiver this year). The change in monthly payment caps would be immensely helpful but if I'm carved out for arbitrary reasons I'm not super happy about getting thrown back to the wolves in January, same as it ever was.
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Aug 25, 2022 04:01
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Forward party did an FAQ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGctbirlpTU Are you a spoiler? Yes. If you don't like it, enact ranked choice voting. Is this a vanity project? It isn't even that good. Do you have any policies? We don't even have a platform! Why now? Why not. Are you GOP funded? Yes, and we are staffers who got pushed out for not being all-in on trump. So yeah, good to know they let the mask slip and revealed they are just Lib-Dems 2, American Boogaloo.
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Aug 25, 2022 04:03
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Zophar posted:The thing that's unclear to me and what matters the most to me personally is if the change in discretionary income is *just* for the new IDR terms, or if this change applies to all loan types. I have a consolidated Direct Loan on PSLF which I had to take out to consolidate my undergraduate and graduate loans in order to qualify (and which we were all encouraged to do to get the temporary waiver this year). The change in monthly payment caps would be immensely helpful but if I'm carved out for arbitrary reasons I'm not super happy about getting thrown back to the wolves in January, same as it ever was. This is what I'm wondering about. I have 24k in debt right now, and I've been on the PSLF plan for a while now. I graduated in 2013 and, collectively, I've worked at a nonprofit for about 7 years. But I'm pretty sure I've been paying on some of those loans since before I graduated? I can't tell because I can't access my loving information since Nelnet got my FedLoan stuff and I can't get into it, especially not with all these sites bogged down right now. I just want to know, that if I apply for this IDR plan, would it work retroactively with the payments I've already made? After the 10k forgiveness I'd be down to 14k, and it wouldn't be that hard to knock that down to 12k by the 10 year mark. I don't have a Pell grant like I thought I did, so I would only get 10k forgiven, but that IDR plan gives me a hope that I desperately want to not be misplaced.
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