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PhazonLink posted:just repeating that thumb drives, portable drives in AC office drawers go bad, a drive in a hot wet mass of decaying mass where rainwater might be acid or basic , or even swap is going to be hosed. Also garbage trucks compact garbage with a hydraulic press. So we can expect the drive to be crushed.
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Aug 25, 2022 10:01
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Tsietisin posted:The guy that threw away his Hard Drive with 8,000 Bitcoins was on the radio here a few moments ago. They've categorically told him that it can't happen and they're not legally allowed to let it happen, but 9 years on he is still consumed by it. I don't know if Vanessa Feltz (the interviewer) is naturally dripping with sarcasm and skepticism with all her guests, but I particularly enjoyed the fact she unashamedly didn't know or care to know anyting about Bitcoin, and treated his arguments with the amusement and scorn they deserved. And +1 on him defaming the council about "the sort of material they are burying there". Completely what you'd expect from someone who has lost their God drat mind bashing their head against a wall for 9 years.
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Aug 25, 2022 13:38
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Somfin posted:That's the secret actual floor price, removing it means that there is nothing underneath all of the speculation. Up until now all PoW crypto has been backed by needing to pay the industrial scale miner electrical bills. How does PoW "back" the crypto price? That doesn't make any sense.
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Aug 25, 2022 13:54
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Durzel posted:And +1 on him defaming the council about "the sort of material they are burying there". Completely what you'd expect from someone who has lost their God drat mind bashing their head against a wall for 9 years. I wonder if he is referring to all the child porn on the hard drive encoded into the bitcoin network.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:03
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Just got 100% out of crypto until that poo poo stops looking ponzi ish (read: probably will never change). Feels good. Seeing people attempting to defend tornadocash is still hilarious, especially in light of tether. I would love to see tether collapse the market.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:08
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The only problem crypto solves is the problem of needing new ways to scam people.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:15
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HappyHippo posted:How does PoW "back" the crypto price? That doesn't make any sense. PoW leads to a cost (electricity bills, cost of materials + other utilities) , but as the price is purely speculative by design and crypto have no utility, I agree with you, nothing makes sense
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Aug 25, 2022 14:15
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HappyHippo posted:How does PoW "back" the crypto price? That doesn't make any sense. Because people have to churn worthless calculations to authenticate the blockchain (which mining is part of), which means that the rewards have to at least match the price of electricity. If the miners aren't at least breaking even over the long term they start pulling back, which jerks around the difficulty of the mining, making it more profitable for the ones that remain. Untethering it to the price of electricity means that there really isn't a natural floor. Which is good, because it also destroys the incentive to use up more electricity than loving individual countries on doing internet libertarian sudokus.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:17
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HappyHippo posted:How does PoW "back" the crypto price? That doesn't make any sense. The view I heard on this is that spending electricity on PoW is equivalent to locking gold into Fort Knox. By removing a scarce resource from the world, you transfer that resource's value onto the currency. Why yes, there IS an immense obvious hole in that comparison. It's just a sham to rope-in gold-standard zealots into the ponzi scheme.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:18
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Picardy Beet posted:PoW leads to a cost (electricity bills, cost of materials + other utilities) , but as the price is purely speculative by design and crypto have no utility, I agree with you, nothing makes sense My understanding is that the difficulty of mining a block scales to the hashrate of the entire network. So in a hypothetical world where the entire etherium network is three computers with GTX970s in them it's going to be really easy, and in one where it's a billion RTX3090Ti's it's going to be really hard. It's also much cheaper in terms of electricity to run the former than the latter. So once the current mining rate per hour isn't paying the electrical bills you'll have miners start to drop off, but that in turn eases up the difficulty. This makes it easier, and eases up the electrical costs for the remaining pool. Now, if there's a huge positive delta between the price of electricity and the price of Ether congrats you're in 2020 and good loving luck finding a graphics card. This is also part of why a lot of countries are chasing these assholes out. If you have either fully or partially state subsidized power it's basically a direct wealth transfer from the state and taxpayers to mining pricks via the intermediary of huge carbon emissions.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:21
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notwithoutmyanus posted:Just got 100% out of crypto until that poo poo stops looking ponzi ish (read: probably will never change). Feels good. On the subject of "what kind of scam is it, and has it permitted by design or just stupidity ?", the last entry on David Rosenthal's blog is quite informative https://blog.dshr.org/2022/08/investment-frauds.html
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Aug 25, 2022 14:21
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I wonder how El Salvador is doing.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:22
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Cyrano4747 posted:Because people have to churn worthless calculations to authenticate the blockchain (which mining is part of), which means that the rewards have to at least match the price of electricity. If the miners aren't at least breaking even over the long term they start pulling back, which jerks around the difficulty of the mining, making it more profitable for the ones that remain. I'm reading this and I don't see how it puts a "floor" on the price. It's the opposite: whatever the price is, the difficulty naturally adjusts until miners are (barely) making a profit. Plenty of $0.0001754 shitcoins are being mined too. This is actually the argument that crypto bros make: that just because work was spent to produce something, it must therefore be valuable. Which is obviously incorrect.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:25
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Here's a randomly googled graph of the etherium mining difficulty over the last ~8 years. No I have no idea what that unit of measure is, but it tells you the rough story: Here's the price chart over the same time period:  They don't correlate 1:1, but they are related. Note in particular the drop in mining difficulty about the same time as the crash in prices around 7/21 - mining (briefly) became less valuable than electricity, so people pulled out.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:27
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Supply Side Currency. I might actually start using that. edit: Cyrano4747 posted:They don't correlate 1:1, but they are related. Note in particular the drop in mining difficulty about the same time as the crash in prices around 7/21 - mining (briefly) became less valuable than electricity, so people pulled out. Right, but peopled pulled out because the price crashed. If mining was driving the price, it would have been the other way around. Aramis fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 14:28
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HappyHippo posted:I'm reading this and I don't see how it puts a "floor" on the price. It's the opposite: whatever the price is, the difficulty naturally adjusts until miners are (barely) making a profit. Plenty of $0.0001754 shitcoins are being mined too. It doesn't put a hard floor on the price, but it creates a relationship between the price of the input (electricity) and the number of people producing the shitcoins. Electricity cost is the big variable right now, which is why there's a race to the bottom of miners trying to go places with the cheapest electricity possible. For a single area (e.g. electricity in Texas or electricity in China) It's also a relatively fixed cost, at least over the short time spans that we're talking about here. The price or a KWh is going to hold more or less steady (again, on the time frame that we're talking about with crypto fluctuations) which is going to drive some producers out, which in turn both eases up the difficulty (and production cost in electricity) as well as tightening the supply of new coins. For them the absolute value is pointless, because what they're interested in is the delta between the cost of electricity and the value of the coins they're producing. Are there true believer hodlers out there who are going to mine at a loss forever because of lambos on the moon? Sure, but everything I've seen points to them being dwarfed by the commercial mining outfits that are just interested in churning out profits today. Going to POS decouples that. It reduces the cost of the primary input to essentially zero, which is going to do some interesting things to the actual price.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:38
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Aramis posted:Supply Side Currency. yes, and the smaller mining pool means that it then became easier to mine and therefore cheaper in terms of electricity, which means a larger profit margin for the remaining miners, which drives people back into the pool. It's not just a two variable problem, it's a multi-variable issue. You've got the market value of the coins, the fixed (relative to the speed the rest of this moves) price of electricity, the number of miners, and the difficulty of mining. Being dependent on industrial scale electrical consumption means that when the price drops below a point where it's profitable the other two variables - mining difficulty and number of miners - move to compensate, and eventually you're in an equilibrium where it's minimally profitable enough to make back the money you're spending on electricity. None of this is natural law type poo poo, there's no reason you coudln't crash below production costs permanently, but at that point we're talking a full network collapse which isn't something we've been blessed enough to experience. On the flip side you can also have value way above production cost, which is when you get burning mountains of graphics cards.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:45
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Cyrano4747 posted:yes, and the smaller mining pool means that it then became easier to mine and therefore cheaper in terms of electricity, which means a larger profit margin for the remaining miners, which drives people back into the pool. The equilibrium is the difficulty where the cost-per-coin (plus fees) is approximately the amount of electricity it takes to mine (it's basically a zero-profit condition). But the relationship is entirely in one direction. There's no mechanism by which the cost of electricity can hold the price up.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:50
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Maybe I'm missing something here. I do not see anything within this whole explanation that exerts pressure on the price itself. To my ears, it sounds like saying that you can increase Voltage in an electrical circuit by increasing the Resistance because V = R*I.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:53
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Cyrano4747 posted:Because people have to churn worthless calculations to authenticate the blockchain (which mining is part of), which means that the rewards have to at least match the price of electricity. If the miners aren't at least breaking even over the long term they start pulling back, which jerks around the difficulty of the mining, making it more profitable for the ones that remain. You are correct that price and difficulty are going to be correlated. You are getting the correlation backwards, however. At any given difficulty, there's a marginal cost per coin - and if there's a big difference between the two, that will lead to adding or subtracting mining hardware so that the difficulty changes until the marginal cost of mining a new coin is roughly the same as the current price. So the changes in price should lead changes in difficulty (and not the other way around).
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Aug 25, 2022 14:53
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evilweasel posted:You are correct that price and difficulty are going to be correlated. You are getting the correlation backwards, however. Yeah you're right. I've got it all backward in my head.
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Aug 25, 2022 14:57
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CRUSTY MINGE posted:I wonder how El Salvador is doing. apparently doing the next best thing to a scam, locking everyone up:  when your money is tight and you're holding the bag, just crack down on the people and keep yourself from getting questioned.
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Aug 25, 2022 15:30
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If anything, mining drives down the price due to the constant need to sell to buy more electricity.
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Aug 25, 2022 15:48
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A fair few people still genuinely believe Bitcoins act like batteries and you can somehow get the electricity back by 'spending' them.
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Aug 25, 2022 15:49
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Any news on the nugencoin guy? I remember it getting soft rug pulled last month.
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Aug 25, 2022 15:57
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Tsietisin posted:The guy that threw away his Hard Drive with 8,000 Bitcoins was on the radio here a few moments ago. Hahahahahaha I loaded this up without reading about the timestamp and was skipping around to find the right point, and as soon as I heard his voice, I was like "yep this is our guy, this sounds like a bitcoiner"
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Aug 25, 2022 16:03
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Spazzle posted:If anything, mining drives down the price due to the constant need to sell to buy more electricity. Apparently a bunch of miners (even industrial grade ones) are hodl true believers, holding the coins they mined and taking out loans with those coins (and their mining equipment) as collateral. Many of them have been forced to sell in the "bear market" though: https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitfarms-sold-3k-bitcoin-as-part-of-strategy-to-improve-liquidity-and-pay-debts Edit: 
HappyHippo fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 16:07
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Ghost Leviathan posted:A fair few people still genuinely believe Bitcoins act like batteries and you can somehow get the electricity back by 'spending' them. Its because they are taking an overly convoluted way of describing money - you can turn electricity into work, the work product into money, and the money can buy other things (like more electricity). Of course, that doesnt make it into a battery any more than a £10 note is. You also cant un-burn the coal, etc
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Aug 25, 2022 16:28
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https://twitter.com/saylor/status/1435618793036959748?lang=en
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Aug 25, 2022 16:38
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Cocaine is real, and it makes people talk like this.
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Aug 25, 2022 16:45
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god those people are so god damned stupid and culty.
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Aug 25, 2022 16:47
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This digital energy which relies entirely on electricity and the Internet can also transcend the limitations of those two exact things Those boulders they traded ownership of thousands of years ago still make more sense.
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Aug 25, 2022 16:49
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https://twitter.com/Dennis_Porter_/status/1562153763845967872
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Aug 25, 2022 16:50
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I dont think these people understand what is bitcoin and how it works edit: is the kind of argument that so absurd and stupid is actually impossible to argue against. You cant engage it, you cant even begin to tell whats wrong about it. Is just pure nonsense, is like trying to argue against a monty python sketch Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 16:54
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Elias_Maluco posted:I dont think these people understand what is bitcoin and how it works They do understand 2 things: 1. Cocaine 2. Money
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Aug 25, 2022 16:54
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Consuming mere 0.0001 Bitcoin a day will supply you with 100% of your recommended dietary allowance of nutrients and vitamins. Sink your teeth into its digital flesh, receive its sustenance, absorb the bits into your bloodstream.
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Aug 25, 2022 17:04
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Protocol7 posted:This digital energy which relies entirely on electricity and the Internet can also transcend the limitations of those two exact things I like the evolution of the word digit. like its from latin for fingers and toes, then slang for numbers, and now its some magical spell bark.
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Aug 25, 2022 17:06
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PhazonLink posted:I like the evolution of the word digit. like its from latin for fingers and toes, then slang for numbers, and now its some magical spell bark. I like your post. It is very digital
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Aug 25, 2022 17:07
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Elias_Maluco posted:the kind of argument that so absurd and stupid is actually impossible to argue against. You cant engage it, you cant even begin to tell whats wrong about it. Is just pure nonsense, is like trying to argue against a monty python sketch Bitcoin!
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Aug 25, 2022 17:15
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That is mental This is the guy with billions invested in them right? Does he not have any stakeholders to answer to or is it all his own money?
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