USCE Summer 2022: You can't change the crisis settings.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE Summer 2022: You can't change the crisis settings.

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evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

The primary goal of the Supreme Court case is to allow all state legislatures to ignore anti-gerrymandering constitutional amendments to their state constitutions.

# ? Aug 28, 2022 22:12

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# ? May 27, 2024 05:41

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

Happiness Commando posted:

No, nitrous is as safe as it's always been. Not only is it still used at dentists, it is now being used in childbirth as an alternative to epidurals. Overuse/abuse can lead to B12 deficiency, symptoms of which include loss of sensation or tingling in fingertips or other extremeties. The primary risk of nitrous inhalation is suffocation, typically because someone filled a trash bag off a tank and then passed out inside of it

If I had to make a list of "drugs I'm really worried about and their threat to society", the poo poo they use to make whipped cream would probably come in pretty low on it. I've done my fair share of whippets and known people who have as well and, so far, things have largely turned out OK and no one I know needed an intervention, went to the hospital, lost their job, got cancer, ruined their marriage or wound up homeless over it.

Seems like something that NYC could kind of let ride for the time being but this is just me talkin and maybe it's a real problem that requires immediate legislation. I didn't know we had a widespread whippet epidemic in the largest city in America but I haven't really been following it.

# ? Aug 28, 2022 22:17

some plague rats: Jun 5, 2012; by Fluffdaddy

Baronash posted:

College does not exist to be job training, and talking about it like it needs to be turned into some stripped down training program is gross. You can already look around and see the consequences of folks with a lot of domain-specific knowledge showing their asses whenever they stray outside their bubble, and your suggestion is that we should make that problem worse. I went to college and, in the course of completing my gen eds and degree requirements, took classes in chemistry, biology, history, statistics, logic and ethics, political science, geology, art history, environmental sustainability, ecology, and anthropology. None of these had anything to do with my "bullshit major" of recreation. What all those classes did do was give me a glimpse of the world outside of my own direct experience. That's the point: to be confronted by different perspectives and challenge your preconceived notions about the world around you.

And your suggestion is to torch all of that and teach Excel as though college ought to be a really expensive Skillshare subscription.

So the problem as suggested was that college is inadequately preparing people for the world and lumbering them with an excessive, pointless workload, and the solution you see is to take on a different excessive, pointless workload? You say the whole idea is to "glimpse of the world outside of my own direct experience" but you're still just going to college classes, right? Just slightly different ones...?

# ? Aug 28, 2022 22:17

Kalit: Nov 6, 2006; The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

BiggerBoat posted:

Also, this is apparently a huge problem

https://news.yahoo.com/now-illegal-anyone-under-21-201514100.html

It's now illegal for anyone under 21 to buy canned whipped cream in New York, officials say it's to stop teens from inhaling nitrous oxide

As if you can't buy whippets from any head shop and beyond that who loving gives a poo poo? AFAIK, they're relatively harmless. I remember having dental surgery when I was maybe 9 or 10, given nitrous and really loving loving it so maybe it's a gateway drug(?)

I remember when I worked at Denny's as a teenager and they used to keep the whipped cream supply locked up in a cage and the servers used to get pissed off because every time they had to make a sundae, the dispensers were dead.

But thank god NY is addressing this epidemic problem

It�s fascinating that 18-20 year olds can buy a gun in NY but not canned whipped cream�..

Kalit fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Aug 28, 2022

# ? Aug 28, 2022 22:20

StumblyWumbly: Sep 12, 2007; Batmanticore!

haveblue posted:

How do you appoint a special master to examine documents that all but a small handful of people in the country are forbidden to read? I don�t think any of the joint chiefs of staff have that kind of free time

There are probably some lawyers and very high up folks in intelligence that could do it. And the executive branch could go through an actual process and allow someone to (if there is need) know any national secrets.

It seems like at this point the proper procedure is to argue that evidence was not covered by the warrant and improperly seized at the trial (which sounds like a bullshit argument), but IANAL.

# ? Aug 28, 2022 22:47

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

We all like to have a good laugh every now and again, but nitrous oxide is no laughing matter. It is becoming an issue of concern in China, the world leader in public health. Here is a selection of popular and scientific sources that could hopefully sway those looking for an unearned giggle.

https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-1...-101641604.html

quote:

In Depth: China Needs to Get Serious About the Growing Abuse of Laughing Gas, Experts Say
Chinese experts have called on the country to step up control of the production and sale of nitrous oxide, or laughing gas, amid signs that an increasing number of people are recreationally abusing the common industrial and medical substance.

Police around the country have recorded hundreds of cases of nitrous oxide abuse since last year, far more than the handful they logged prior to 2019. Most cases involved people in their 20s and 30s.

While the gas can produce feelings of relaxation and euphoria, it can also cause headaches, dizziness and hallucinations. Research suggests that nitrous oxide can become addictive, and long-term use can lead to nervous system damage, impaired brain function and even death.

China does not include nitrous oxide in its drug control laws, instead regulating it like other common chemicals � a status that critics say makes it hard to investigate and prosecute those who sell it to individuals and thereby curb its recreational use.

No laughing matter

In October, after completing a month of treatment at a drug rehabilitation center in the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou, Zhang Qian � a pseudonym � finally felt she had kicked her nitrous oxide habit.

But the 23-year-old cosmetic surgery worker still feels its lingering effects. �I have low energy, get tired easily, and my reactions are quite slow,� she told Caixin.

Zeng Guanyong, the rehabilitation center�s director, said �dozens� of people had sought treatment since the clinic started offering programs for nitrous oxide addiction in 2018.

Official figures suggest recreational laughing gas use is on the rise in China. In June, the police department of East China�s Shandong province said it had recorded 51 cases so far this year, more than twice the total number logged between 2017 and 2019. In May, police in the eastern city of Hangzhou announced they had dealt with 500 laughing gas cases since 2019.

The latter statement added that more than 70% involved people born during the 1990s, and 20% involved people born during the following decade.

Zhang told Caixin she first tried nitrous oxide three years ago when she was in a difficult relationship. As she recalled, the gas made her feel �pleasantly lightheaded, like being drunk.� As her use increased, she began noticing side effects like muscle weakness, incontinence and hallucinations.

The rehabilitation center diagnosed her with dependence on a psychoactive substance, noting her strong compulsion to take nitrous oxide and her withdrawal symptoms after coming off it.

Doctors told Caixin many formerly habitual nitrous oxide users struggle to return to their former level of health. �Long-term laughing gas inhalation is, in essence, not something you can recover from,� said Yu Buwei, the head of the anesthesia department at a major hospital affiliated with the prestigious Shanghai Jiao Tong University, who is not familiar with Zhang�s case.

An unruly market

China regulates nitrous oxide as a hazardous chemical, meaning traders require permits to buy and sell it. But the government has struggled to exert control over the large and unruly industry.

Like their peers in other countries, people in China often obtain nitrous oxide from the small metal cartridges used to make whipped cream. Users siphon the pressurized gas inside the cartridges into small balloons, from which they then inhale.

An investigation last year illustrated the difficulties of taming the domestic industry. Police in Guangzhou found that a business claiming to be a coffee company was selling the gas-filled cartridges without a permit to recreational users from its physical and online stores.

The so-called coffee company, in turn, sourced cartridges from two domestic importers, Shanghai Naluwa Industrial Co. Ltd. and Jingyu (Shanghai) Trading Co. Ltd. Subsequent investigations found that the two companies� products were linked to recreational laughing gas use in at least five other province-level jurisdictions.

In July this year, a county court in East China�s Zhejiang province respectively fined Naluwa and Jingyu 18 million yuan ($2.75 million) and 10 million yuan for running an illegal business after selling to unlicensed distributors. Zhu Weimin, the actual controller of both companies, was also sentenced to eight years in prison.

The heightened scrutiny forced nitrous oxide distributors to look closer to home. In June, police in Hangzhou, the capital of Zhejiang, said they seized 155,000 cartridges from a suspect who bought large cylinders of the gas from licensed manufacturers, transferred it to the smaller canisters and sold them for around 240 yuan to underground dealers, who then resold them to nightclub-goers, online shoppers and social media contacts for about twice the price.

A worker in the sales department of a gas company in Guangzhou told Caixin that major clients for large cylinders of nitrous oxide included hospitals and dental clinics, adding that prospective buyers only need to present a business license, not a permit for handling the gas.

An unregulated narcotic

China should tighten regulation and increase support for measures to control the spread of nitrous oxide, experts told Caixin.

Li Gang, the pseudonym of a former drug control official who requested anonymity in order to speak freely, said the substance�s status as a hazardous chemical means abuses come under the aegis not of anti-narcotics authorities, but of economic investigators who have fewer resources.

One way to bolster laughing gas regulation would be to list it as a narcotic or psychotropic substance for nonmedical use, a catalog that could subject the gas to extra controls, like video monitoring of production sites and strict storage and transportation records.

�From an anesthesiology and mental health perspective, anything that can cause physical or psychological dependence should be controlled like narcotic drugs,� Yu said. �Laughing gas has addictive properties and is a narcotic in itself, so I believe it should be regulated like one.�

But critics say such a move would make it excessively difficult for legitimate enterprises to obtain nitrous oxide. Xie Chuanyu, a professor at the People�s Public Security University of China, said the country could combat recreational use by closing loopholes in existing hazardous chemicals ordinances that prohibit the sale of laughing gas to individuals.

Other scholars have proposed introducing specific legislation to regulate nitrous oxide and other substances with psychoactive properties, perhaps akin to the U.K.�s Psychoactive Substances Act, which took effect in 2016 and restricts the production, sale and supply of so-called �legal highs.�

Chen R, Liao M, Ou J. Laughing gas inhalation in Chinese youth: a public health issue. Lancet Public Health. 2018 Oct;3(10):e465. doi: 10.1016/S2468-2667(18)30134-8. PMID: 30314588.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30134-8/fulltext

quote:

Nitrous oxide is a common medical inhalational anaesthetic. However, direct high-concentration inhalation of nitrous oxide, via a balloon or plastic bag, is increasing among recreational users, and can lead to psychological addiction and cerebral anoxia.1 Abuse or long-term use can also cause vitamin-B12 deficiency, and severe neural and psychiatric symptoms.1
Recreational use of nitrous oxide within pubs and night clubs increased in popularity during 2017, in China, after being introduced by returning overseas students.2, 3 Nitrous oxide can provoke transient dizziness, dissociation, disorientation, loss of balance, and impaired memory and cognition.4 Cases of hallucinations or persecutory delusions have also been reported.5 No comprehensive data exist regarding the prevalence and demographics of nitrous oxide misuse in China. The most recent report in 2017, released by the Chinese National Narcotics Control Commission, only briefly mentioned that new types of psychoactive substances such as laughing gas continue to emerge.6
Access to nitrous oxide is restricted in many countries, such as Australia, Japan, and the UK. However, in China, nitrous oxide is not categorised as an anaesthetic or psychotropic substance, and the use of this drug remains unrestricted. Although internet search results of laughing gas are blocked in China, alternatives exist to locate suppliers online.
Locally, some progress has been made. In December, 2017, police in the Zhejiang province processed the first criminal case on illegal distribution of laughing gas in China.7 The perpetrator was charged by the local authorities with operating an illegal business, because laughing gas is categorised as a dangerous chemical that requires a license to be sold. Additionally, the Beijing municipality will be the first local government authority to begin the process of regulating laughing gas.8 However, national regulation policies have yet to be established. Therefore, the government must urge judiciary and health administration departments and the food-and-drug administration to collaborate and legislate to control the supply of nitrous oxide. Tackling the mental health issues associated with laughing gas misuse in young Chinese people is also crucial, and more research is needed to enhance prevention, treatment, and rehabilitation programmes.

Garakani A, Jaffe RJ, Savla D, Welch AK, Protin CA, Bryson EO, McDowell DM. Neurologic, psychiatric, and other medical manifestations of nitrous oxide abuse: A systematic review of the case literature. Am J Addict. 2016 Aug;25(5):358-69. doi: 10.1111/ajad.12372. Epub 2016 Apr 1. PMID: 27037733.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27037733/

quote:

Abstract

Background/objectives: Nitrous oxide (N2 O) is known to have abuse potential, although debate regarding the toxic effects of such abuse continues. Our objective was to review the case literature and present the neurologic, psychiatric and medical consequences of N2 O abuse.

Methods: A systematic literature review was completed for case reports using keywords "nitrous oxide" with "abuse/abusing" or "misuse/misusing" or "overuse/overusing" or "addiction." Non-English-language cases and cases not involving direct toxic effects of N2 O were excluded as were commentaries or personal essays. Clinical presentation, frequency of N2 O abuse, laboratory studies, imaging, ancillary tests, treatments and outcomes were collected from case reports.

Results: Our review returned 335 Pubmed, 204 Web of Science, 73 PsycINFO, 6 CINAHL, 55 EMBASE and 0 Grey Literature results, and after exclusion and removal of duplicates, 91 individual cases across 77 publications were included. There were also 11 publications reporting 29 cases of death related to N2 O abuse. The majority of cases (N = 72) reported neurologic sequelae including myeloneuropathy and subacute combined degeneration, commonly (N = 39) with neuroimaging changes. Psychiatric (N = 11) effects included psychosis while other medical effects (N = 8) included pneumomediastinum and frostbite. Across all cases N2 O abuse was correlated with low or low-normal Vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) levels (N = 52) and occasionally elevated homocysteine and methylmalonic acid.

Conclusions/scientific significance: N2 O abuse represents a significant problem because of the difficulty involved with identification and the toxicity related to chronic abuse including possible death. Health professionals should be aware of the toxic effects of N2 O and be able to identify potential N2 O abuse. (Am J Addict 2016;25:358-369).

Since it is still legal, only adolescents with developing brains will face challenges in procuring these drugs. Hopefully, such minor thrill-seekers will find it is just as easy to access well-trodden classic substances such as cannabis � which I would bet is safer on a per-dose basis � instead of going for the easy pickings of so-called �legal highs.�

# ? Aug 28, 2022 22:56

Professor Beetus: Apr 12, 2007; They can fight us
But they'll never Beetus

MixMasterMalaria posted:

TCC's consensus

I am literally smoking a fat bowl of Pineapple Express right now and I physically recoiled when I saw this phrase.

# ? Aug 28, 2022 23:19

Rigel: Nov 11, 2016

evilweasel posted:

The primary goal of the Supreme Court case is to allow all state legislatures to ignore anti-gerrymandering constitutional amendments to their state constitutions.

Glass half full: there is no significant red state with independent redistricting commissions, unless you count AZ and ID. The other states with them are CA, WA, MI, and CO.

If the Dems are willing to ignore the will of their voters just as much as red states, they can start ignoring those commissions and jam through new maps. (Glass half empty: they probably won't do this)

# ? Aug 28, 2022 23:38

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

Kalit posted:

It�s fascinating that 18-20 year olds can buy a gun in NY but not canned whipped cream�..

"fascinating" is one way of putting it

mawarannahr posted:

We all like to have a good laugh every now and again, but nitrous oxide is no laughing matter. It is becoming an issue of concern in China, the world leader in public health. Here is a selection of popular and scientific sources that could hopefully sway those looking for an unearned giggle.

Give me a loving break with thist.

Look, I'm not saying it's good for you and that doing it too much can't gently caress with your health but in a world where cigarettes and alcohol are legal, fentanyl is rampant, pain killers are handed out like skittles, there's a global pandemic, people bang heroin and I live in a country where guns almost outnumber people, you'll have to excuse me if I still fall on the side of thinking that NYC might have some bigger fish to fry than worrying about this. When people start dropping dead from laughing gas and can't kick the habit, you can get back to me and I might take a second look at it. One or two case studies notwithstanding.

Anything can be addictive or abused.

I appreciate your effort post on it but I'm going to chime in on the "who cares?" side of the issue for the moment until "people doing laughing gas" becomes an epidemic worth giving a poo poo about and putting age restrictions on whipped cream purchases seems dumb and an example of the government not understanding the issue. You'd have to buy a palette of whipped cream to even approach anything dangerous. I have a hard time believing that whippet addiction is a widespread matter threatening public health that demands immediate legislation and labeling it as a narcotic is, frankly, totally absurd to me.

I mean, if we simply must, then regulate the sale of the cartridges like they do with Sudafed or something but it's still a non issue to me. The next person I hear getting strung out or OD'ing on nitrous will be the first.

# ? Aug 28, 2022 23:44

Oracle: Oct 9, 2004

StumblyWumbly posted:

There are probably some lawyers and very high up folks in intelligence that could do it. And the executive branch could go through an actual process and allow someone to (if there is need) know any national secrets.

It seems like at this point the proper procedure is to argue that evidence was not covered by the warrant and improperly seized at the trial (which sounds like a bullshit argument), but IANAL.

They should appoint Hillary Clinton.

# ? Aug 28, 2022 23:50

small butter: Oct 8, 2011

I'm trying to find the historical spending of various administrations and how the Biden administration stacks up. For example, between the IRA, the American Rescue Plan, Infrastructure, etc. and how it stacks up to Obama, Clinton, Trump, and everyone else. Is this information compiled anywhere?

# ? Aug 29, 2022 00:32

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

If you inhale the nitrous and eat the contents can of whipped cream, the eating part is by far the most dangerous.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 00:46

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

Rigel posted:

Glass half full: there is no significant red state with independent redistricting commissions, unless you count AZ and ID. The other states with them are CA, WA, MI, and CO.

If the Dems are willing to ignore the will of their voters just as much as red states, they can start ignoring those commissions and jam through new maps. (Glass half empty: they probably won't do this)

These commissions really helped the GOP this time around in several blue states, so why would they want to ban them?

# ? Aug 29, 2022 01:10

Rigel: Nov 11, 2016

Charlz Guybon posted:

These commissions really helped the GOP this time around in several blue states, so why would they want to ban them?

The ruling which we are afraid of would also allow Dem legislatures in blue states to disregard independent redistricting commissions. I think those legislatures are unlikely to do so even if they could, however.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 01:26

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Rigel posted:

The ruling which we are afraid of would also allow Dem legislatures in blue states to disregard independent redistricting commissions. I think those legislatures are unlikely to do so even if they could, however.

I mean, New York blatantly did figuring the democratic-dominated highest NY court (annoyingly, the NY Supreme Court is the lowest level court, not the highest level) would look the other way. Unfortunately, it did not.

The issue isn�t just independent redistributing commissions but also states that prohibit partisan gerrymandering but still let the legislature draw the districts (North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Ohio, NY all come to mind)

# ? Aug 29, 2022 01:31

FizFashizzle: Mar 30, 2005

I have a patient right now who overdosed on nitrous oxide and has memory problems, balance issues, orthostatic hypotension that I suspect is cardiogenic/vascular, and a tremor. cerebellum is hosed on MRI. His wife, who also was on it, is still in the hospital and can no longer walk and is grossly encephalopathic, hallucinates, can't really function anymore.

They were doing it for four months though. And this was to come off alcohol, of which they were also abusing. When I asked him how much he was doing, he said "100-150" a day. When I asked how much that was, thinking they were just the little pellets or whatever, he held out his hands indicating basically an o2 cannister's worth. Dude and his wife were doing an industrial amount of nitrous oxide daily for four months. they literally bankrupted themselves doing this.

Mid 40s, both computer touchers, two teenagers, addicted to nitrous. mom might not ever function again.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 01:45

slurm: Jul 28, 2022; by Hand Knit

FizFashizzle posted:

I have a patient right now who overdosed on nitrous oxide and has memory problems, balance issues, orthostatic hypotension that I suspect is cardiogenic/vascular, and a tremor. cerebellum is hosed on MRI. His wife, who also was on it, is still in the hospital and can no longer walk and is grossly encephalopathic, hallucinates, can't really function anymore.

They were doing it for four months though. And this was to come off alcohol, of which they were also abusing. When I asked him how much he was doing, he said "100-150" a day. When I asked how much that was, thinking they were just the little pellets or whatever, he held out his hands indicating basically an o2 cannister's worth. Dude and his wife were doing an industrial amount of nitrous oxide daily for four months. they literally bankrupted themselves doing this.

Mid 40s, both computer touchers, two teenagers, addicted to nitrous. mom might not ever function again.

Holy poo poo

# ? Aug 29, 2022 01:51

Baronash: Feb 29, 2012; So what do you want to be called?

some plague rats posted:

So the problem as suggested was that college is inadequately preparing people for the world and lumbering them with an excessive, pointless workload, and the solution you see is to take on a different excessive, pointless workload? You say the whole idea is to "glimpse of the world outside of my own direct experience" but you're still just going to college classes, right? Just slightly different ones...?

What? No, I'm saying that broad gen-ed requirements, which are already what most colleges require, are cool and good.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 02:00

MixMasterMalaria: Jul 26, 2007

Professor Beetus posted:

I am literally smoking a fat bowl of Pineapple Express right now and I physically recoiled when I saw this phrase.

I haven't really visited tcc in over a decade, so to be clear I'm not basing any safety decisions on subforum content.

FizFashizzle posted:

I have a patient right now who overdosed on nitrous oxide and has memory problems, balance issues, orthostatic hypotension that I suspect is cardiogenic/vascular, and a tremor. cerebellum is hosed on MRI. His wife, who also was on it, is still in the hospital and can no longer walk and is grossly encephalopathic, hallucinates, can't really function anymore.

They were doing it for four months though. And this was to come off alcohol, of which they were also abusing. When I asked him how much he was doing, he said "100-150" a day. When I asked how much that was, thinking they were just the little pellets or whatever, he held out his hands indicating basically an o2 cannister's worth. Dude and his wife were doing an industrial amount of nitrous oxide daily for four months. they literally bankrupted themselves doing this.

Mid 40s, both computer touchers, two teenagers, addicted to nitrous. mom might not ever function again.

Wow this is so far beyond anything I've heard before. My understanding was that use is generally pretty self limiting since b12 deficiency and trying to clear the machine oil gunk from lungs makes people feel kind of lovely after a binge on chargers over a weekend (not to mention the cost). Potential for abuse at the levels you describe would seem impossible for canned whip cream diversion though. Wishing them the best.

MixMasterMalaria fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Aug 29, 2022

# ? Aug 29, 2022 02:18

Herstory Begins Now: Aug 5, 2003; SOME REALLY TEDIOUS DUMB SHIT THAT SUCKS ASS TO READ ->>

FizFashizzle posted:

I have a patient right now who overdosed on nitrous oxide and has memory problems, balance issues, orthostatic hypotension that I suspect is cardiogenic/vascular, and a tremor. cerebellum is hosed on MRI. His wife, who also was on it, is still in the hospital and can no longer walk and is grossly encephalopathic, hallucinates, can't really function anymore.

They were doing it for four months though. And this was to come off alcohol, of which they were also abusing. When I asked him how much he was doing, he said "100-150" a day. When I asked how much that was, thinking they were just the little pellets or whatever, he held out his hands indicating basically an o2 cannister's worth. Dude and his wife were doing an industrial amount of nitrous oxide daily for four months. they literally bankrupted themselves doing this.

Mid 40s, both computer touchers, two teenagers, addicted to nitrous. mom might not ever function again.

Yeah they probably literally had one of those big 50+lb cannisters to be doing that much. diverting those tanks is a whole business in its own right.

no2 is pretty drat safe in tiny amounts as far as drugs go but yeah anything powerful enough to get you really hosed up is going to be really bad for you, at best, when you start using thousands of doses.

MixMasterMalaria posted:

Wow this is so far beyond anything I've heard before. My understanding was that use is generally pretty self limiting since b12 deficiency and trying to clear the machine oil gunk from lungs makes people feel kind of lovely after a binge on chargers over a weekend (not to mention the cost). Potential for abuse at the levels you describe would seem impossible for canned whip cream diversion though. Wishing them the best.

That level of use is almost definitely from people getting a diverted tank of no2, which is honestly pretty hard to find as far as sourcing illegal poo poo goes.

mawarannahr posted:

We all like to have a good laugh every now and again, but nitrous oxide is no laughing matter. It is becoming an issue of concern in China, the world leader in public health. Here is a selection of popular and scientific sources that could hopefully sway those looking for an unearned giggle.

https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-1...-101641604.html

Chen R, Liao M, Ou J. Laughing gas inhalation in Chinese youth: a public health issue. Lancet Public Health. 2018 Oct;3(10):e465. doi: 10.1016/S2468-2667(18)30134-8. PMID: 30314588.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(18)30134-8/fulltext

Garakani A, Jaffe RJ, Savla D, Welch AK, Protin CA, Bryson EO, McDowell DM. Neurologic, psychiatric, and other medical manifestations of nitrous oxide abuse: A systematic review of the case literature. Am J Addict. 2016 Aug;25(5):358-69. doi: 10.1111/ajad.12372. Epub 2016 Apr 1. PMID: 27037733.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27037733/

Since it is still legal, only adolescents with developing brains will face challenges in procuring these drugs. Hopefully, such minor thrill-seekers will find it is just as easy to access well-trodden classic substances such as cannabis � which I would bet is safer on a per-dose basis � instead of going for the easy pickings of so-called �legal highs.�

the US regulates the gently caress out of NO2 and it's historically been extremely hard to source from diverted sources which is why people using whip cream canisters is the main way people normally get it. china is basically the polar opposite in that it's been largely unregulated in any meaningful way and the amount of corruption and not-giving-a-gently caress in chinese chemical industry makes it basically the perfect storm scenario for that stuff being available in huge amounts.

Even beyond what fiz said above, it fucks people up and people fiend really, really hard for it until its gone leading to all kinds of really hosed up stuff. There's a whole added level of danger where people asphyxiate themselves trying to mask it to stay high.

Ironically it's basically harmless in tiny amounts, but holy poo poo is it really bad stuff for people to be able to acquire massive amounts of. cannabis is likely worse for developing brains insofar as there is research there. no2 has been safely used on minors under medical supervision for a century or more

Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 02:35 on Aug 29, 2022

# ? Aug 29, 2022 02:21

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

BiggerBoat posted:

"fascinating" is one way of putting it

Give me a loving break with thist.

I feel like your point is kinda sweaty. The regulation didn't stop NYC from passing other laws, there are reasons to regulate it, and it's not like anybody legitimately NEEDS canned whipped cream.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 02:22

Kalli: Jun 2, 2001

MixMasterMalaria posted:

Wow this is so far beyond anything I've heard before. My understanding was that use is generally pretty self limiting since b12 deficiency and trying to clear the machine oil gunk from lungs makes people feel kind of lovely after a binge on chargers over a weekend (not to mention the cost). Potential for abuse at the levels you describe would seem impossible for canned whip cream diversion though. Wishing them the best.

Friend of mine has been abusing them for years, has spent probably north of $50k on them and earlier
this year lost the ability to walk for about a month due to B12 deficiencies. I've known her to do at least 6x 50 boxes in a day at her worst.

That said, this seems like a bit of a silly law, restrict kids to buying a couple cans of whipped cream. Ain't nobody gonna hit up a dozen stores to get high for 10 minutes.

Herstory Begins Now posted:

Yeah they probably literally had one of those big 50+lb cannisters to be doing that much. diverting those tanks is a whole business in its own right.

no2 is pretty drat safe in tiny amounts as far as drugs go but yeah anything powerful enough to get you really hosed up is going to be really bad for you, at best, when you start using thousands of doses.

That level of use is almost definitely from people getting a diverted tank of no2, which is honestly pretty hard to find as far as sourcing illegal poo poo goes.

I doubt it, tons of stores sell them in small boxes of 24/50. Large cannisters are unwieldy to purchase in comparison.

Kalli fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Aug 29, 2022

# ? Aug 29, 2022 02:35

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

The desire to alter one's consciousness is something that can't be legislated away and if you get rid of all the fun, easy ones, people are going to turn to much less pleasant poo poo. If you're taking so much nitrous oxide, continuously, that it's loving your brain up, I don't think a sudden lack of availability of that specific substance is going to do a goddamn thing to address the reason why you'd abuse anything to that level in the first place. Eventually when there's nothing else around, and you just wanna get hosed up, you're gonna sniff gasoline or some stupid poo poo like that.

Inasmuch as it's possible to "save people from themselves" it's by treating addiction as a disease and offering mental health support to address the underlying problems. But that would be hard, and restricting whipped cream is easy!

# ? Aug 29, 2022 02:55

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

PT6A posted:

Inasmuch as it's possible to "save people from themselves" it's by treating addiction as a disease and offering mental health support to address the underlying problems. But that would be hard, and restricting whipped cream is easy!

That's the ultimate issue. Making drugs illegal just sends people who need help into incarceration, which is the opposite of help.

If America were Scandinavia and arrest meant you were gonna get rehabilitation then it might make sense to make drug use illegal.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 02:57

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

That's the ultimate issue. Making drugs illegal just sends people who need help into incarceration, which is the opposite of help.

If America were Scandinavia and arrest meant you were gonna get rehabilitation then it might make sense to make drug use illegal.

I don't know what it's like in the US, but finding a spot in a decent rehab facility here (if you're not rich) is basically impossible. There's plenty of addicts who know they need help, and want to get help, and just can't access a suitable facility. So I'd say, frankly, you don't even need to arrest people. Build it and they will come.

There's not a huge pool of addicts who think "wow, substance abuse is in fact absolutely loving excellent and it's not causing me any problems at all." They just consider -- and this can be for a number of reasons -- that substance abuse is preferable to the alternative. You need to address why that is, or you don't have a shot.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 03:03

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

https://twitter.com/BruneElections/status/1563963360886116354

# ? Aug 29, 2022 03:10

Fritz the Horse: Dec 26, 2019; ... of course!

Charlz Guybon posted:

https://twitter.com/BruneElections/status/1563963360886116354

Please provide some context or commentary rather than just posting naked Twitter links

# ? Aug 29, 2022 03:21

Charlz Guybon: Nov 16, 2010

Dems in the House are getting more optimistic about their chances to hold the majority. They've been raising more money and have started to spend it on offense, not just defense.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 03:30

Dick Trauma: Nov 30, 2007; God damn it, you've got to be kind.

When it comes to inhalants I worry much more about glue and propellants. If you haven't lived somewhere where huffing was a problem I can assure you that it's terrible. People becoming brain damaged from constantly starving their brain of oxygen, huffing from a paper bag full of fumes from canned air or spraypaint or whatever... they shuffle around like zombies and there's no coming back from that.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 03:56

Hobnob: Feb 23, 2006; Ursa Adorandum

I just happened to listen to the episode of The Dollop about early anesthesia and the hosts mention "doing whippets". I had no idea people still used NO2 recreationally, something I'd more associate with 18th century aristo parties, along with ether and chloroform. The mechanism eludes me, do people spray the cream into a bag and inhale the propellant, or are they chugging down the cream straight from the can?

# ? Aug 29, 2022 04:33

Snowy: Oct 6, 2010; A man whose blood
Is very snow-broth;
One who never feels
The wanton stings and
Motions of the sense

Hobnob posted:

I just happened to listen to the episode of The Dollop about early anesthesia and the hosts mention "doing whippets". I had no idea people still used NO2 recreationally, something I'd more associate with 18th century aristo parties, along with ether and chloroform. The mechanism eludes me, do people spray the cream into a bag and inhale the propellant, or are they chugging down the cream straight from the can?

https://youtu.be/y6qVRGy3OlY

E- Lol maybe this is better

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=47DcqSBcx1s

Snowy fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Aug 29, 2022

# ? Aug 29, 2022 04:35

Hobnob: Feb 23, 2006; Ursa Adorandum

Snowy posted:

https://youtu.be/y6qVRGy3OlY

E- Lol maybe this is better

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=47DcqSBcx1s

Oh lol. I thought it was literally cans of reddi-wip or something.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 05:29

GoutPatrol: Oct 17, 2009; *Stupid Babby*

Fritz the Horse posted:

Please provide some context or commentary rather than just posting naked Twitter links

Also this info would probably be better in the midterms thread.

In other supplement news, :siren:

NY Times - Death of Rep. Tom McClintock�s Wife Tied to White Mulberry Leaf

quote:

The Sacramento County Coroner�s Office determined earlier this year that the 2021 death of Loretta McClintock, the wife of Representative Tom McClintock, Republican of California, was caused by �adverse effects� from ingestion of white mulberry leaf.

The coroner�s report, dated March 10, was released after Kaiser Health News obtained a copy and disclosed it on Wednesday. The coroner found that Ms. McClintock�s death had been accidental, caused by dehydration from stomach inflammation after she consumed the herb.

Ms. McClintock, known as Lori, was found unresponsive on Dec. 15, 2021, by her husband at their home in Elk Grove, Calif. The day before, she had complained of an upset stomach, according to a copy of the report from the coroner�s office. She was 61 years old.

She and Mr. McClintock were married for 34 years and had two children together, according to an obituary posted on Mr. McClintock�s social media accounts. Ms. McClintock worked as a real estate agent, and �she made possible Tom�s public service through the California legislature and Congress,� her obituary said.

Mr. McClintock has represented California�s Fourth Congressional District since 2009. He ran unsuccessfully for governor in the 2003 recall election and for lieutenant governor in 2006. He is now running for re-election in the Fifth Congressional District.

A �partially intact� white mulberry leaf was found in Ms. McClintock�s stomach, Kaiser Health News reported.

White mulberry leaf, often sold as an extract or powder in capsules, is regularly promoted by supplement companies as a dietary aid that can curb cravings and lower blood sugar. Several medical studies, including a 2013 paper in The Journal of Medicinal Food, seem to suggest that ingesting white mulberry leaves and its extract can help reduce obesity. It is widely available over the counter and from Amazon and other online retailers.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration monitors dietary supplements, which are categorized as food, not medicine. This means that supplements are not held to the same standards of rigorous testing as other products, such as prescription and over-the-counter medications.

Companies selling supplements are responsible for ensuring that their products are safe and that their claims are �truthful and substantiated,� according to the F.D.A.

The agency does not maintain a list of the dietary supplements on the market. In the United States, the industry is worth an estimated $35 billion, and there are about 50,000 to 80,000 of these products, according to The A.M.A. Journal of Ethics.

Companies do not need to notify the F.D.A. about new products or secure approval for their sale, but they are required to follow the agency�s labeling and manufacturing mandates, the agency said.

Senators Richard Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, and Mike Braun, Republican of Indiana, introduced bipartisan legislation in April requiring supplement companies to register their products with the F.D.A. and provide the agency with a list of all ingredients. The bill has been referred to the Senate health committee.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 05:33

Cranappleberry: Jan 27, 2009

Baronash posted:

College does not exist to be job training, and talking about it like it needs to be turned into some stripped down training program is gross. You can already look around and see the consequences of folks with a lot of domain-specific knowledge showing their asses whenever they stray outside their bubble, and your suggestion is that we should make that problem worse. I went to college and, in the course of completing my gen eds and degree requirements, took classes in chemistry, biology, history, statistics, logic and ethics, political science, geology, art history, environmental sustainability, ecology, and anthropology. None of these had anything to do with my "bullshit major" of recreation. What all those classes did do was give me a glimpse of the world outside of my own direct experience. That's the point: to be confronted by different perspectives and challenge your preconceived notions about the world around you.

And your suggestion is to torch all of that and teach Excel as though college ought to be a really expensive Skillshare subscription.

you misread my post.

Cranappleberry posted:

General requirements outside of stuff like writing 100s that are x amount of credits in various humanities get a bad rap because they are considered a waste of time and energy for students who know they want a degree in a specific major. But not everyone does know.

If school were free (as it should be), these general requirements would be considered a waste of taxpayer money, even though they are not though I do not think they should be required. Those courses definitely increase the workload, on top of more material study in every subject every year.

But for some majors, a student ends up taking 18-21 credits for several semesters, which is a huge workload, because their schedule is already quite full with degree requirements and they also have to take a 4 credits each of requirements A-I in order to graduate.

Cranappleberry fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Aug 29, 2022

# ? Aug 29, 2022 05:45

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019

Herstory Begins Now posted:

Ironically it's basically harmless in tiny amounts, but holy poo poo is it really bad stuff for people to be able to acquire massive amounts of. cannabis is likely worse for developing brains insofar as there is research there. no2 has been safely used on minors under medical supervision for a century or more

Hmm, you�re probably right that my suspicion that dose-by-dose it�s worse is incorrect. I suppose I�m relying on my own experience where �dose� was more like �8 of them in rapid succession� (usually with weed). If I kept that up that every day I�d probably post better

What�s the story with white mullbery leaf? I can�t find anything really noteworthy about its effects but it doesn�t seem well studied. It�s really hard to tell without proper regulation but does anyone know if the genuine substance would be likely to cause this? Is there a common adjunct that could do this?

# ? Aug 29, 2022 07:41

Canned Sunshine: Nov 20, 2005; CAUTION: POST QUALITY UNDER CONSTRUCTION

Hobnob posted:

I just happened to listen to the episode of The Dollop about early anesthesia and the hosts mention "doing whippets". I had no idea people still used NO2 recreationally, something I'd more associate with 18th century aristo parties, along with ether and chloroform. The mechanism eludes me, do people spray the cream into a bag and inhale the propellant, or are they chugging down the cream straight from the can?

Whippets were still a popular thing in my high school ~ 25 years ago... (gently caress it hurts to type that)

# ? Aug 29, 2022 07:48

Veryslightlymad: Jun 3, 2007; I fight with
my brain
and with an
underlying
hatred of the
Erebonian
Noble Faction

mawarannahr posted:

What�s the story with white mullbery leaf? I can�t find anything really noteworthy about its effects but it doesn�t seem well studied. It�s really hard to tell without proper regulation but does anyone know if the genuine substance would be likely to cause this? Is there a common adjunct that could do this?

According to wikipedia, and also something I once heard when looking into traditional herbal supplements to check their voracity, all parts of the Mulberry plant except the fruit produce Latex/Rubber. So, probably not a great idea for anyone, but for some people, really, really bad.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 08:05

fischtick: Jul 9, 2001; CORGO, THE DESTROYER; Fun Shoe

SourKraut posted:

Whippets were still a popular thing in my high school ~ 25 years ago... (gently caress it hurts to type that)

A buddy in high school around the same time had a pocket sized, red plastic 2-piece �nitrous cracker�. You popped a canister in and twisted the cap until nitrous shot into your face. I think it had a balloon attachment; that might have been its primary purpose.

The founder of Zappos spent like the last six months of his life on a constant feed of nitrous and other disassociatives while fair weather friends drained his bank account.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 08:13

General_Disturbed: Apr 7, 2005; Ride the 8=====D

fischtick posted:

A buddy in high school around the same time had a pocket sized, red plastic 2-piece �nitrous cracker�. You popped a canister in and twisted the cap until nitrous shot into your face. I think it had a balloon attachment; that might have been its primary purpose.

The founder of Zappos spent like the last six months of his life on a constant feed of nitrous and other disassociatives while fair weather friends drained his bank account.

This was the major drug of choice for Steve-O, of Jackass fame.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1ulzP2XUOg There is a fantastic video done about it here that I recommend watching. Of his drug use, self destruction and intervention.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 08:24

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# ? May 27, 2024 05:41

cunningham: Jul 28, 2004

Pharmacist/toxicologist checking in on the white mulberry thing: I predict it is a red herring.

Assuming she didn't eat a massive amount of leaves (i.e., chomp down on an entire plant or something), it doesn't make sense that enough of a toxic principle would get through the gut to get into her system to kill her. I'm not seeing anything beyond "minor cramping" that happens following white mulberry exposure, and I can't think of a mechanism that would cause this life-threatening toxicity. That she was "complaining of an upset stomach" the day before suggests to me that that is the culprit.

Had she consumed some herbal extract product, then maybe I could say, "oh, unregulated supplement, maybe there's something randomly toxic in it," but the fact that they found an actual leaf suggests to me that maybe she wasn't taking an extract. I guess the plant material could be tainted (i.e., with herbicide)?

I'll keep looking around for more info, but that's my 2 cents having looked at this for just a minute.

# ? Aug 29, 2022 13:00

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE Summer 2022: You can't change the crisis settings.

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