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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It's an explicitly self-serving stance to argue that we need to be "patriotic socialists" in the imperial core, like labor aristocrats were all going to jump on the CPI bandwagon because they waved the flag. I just skipped ahead a bit and listened to a random part, and this is very funny: quote:"As you guys know, I'm a thinker myself. There's no difference between me and Daria" I'm a thinker, myself! edit: They want to rape your family!
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Aug 29, 2022 05:11
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the dishonesty of dugin's defenders who don't just explicitly describe themselves as fascists is that they say "oh, that fascist stuff was just in the 90s, he's changed." you have to be a complete chump to believe that. and you can only look back a few years where he was networking with people who'd later become employed propagandists for the azov battalion. it's probably better to describe this as a split in the fascist international over russia/ukraine https://twitter.com/MaupinAFA/status/1516143172795174919 https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1523525769833893888
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Aug 29, 2022 06:23
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Why is everything so stupid
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Aug 29, 2022 06:27
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MLSM posted:Why is everything so stupid internet
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Aug 29, 2022 06:32
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i'm not sure what's funnier, timothy snyder (author of "bloodlands") giving a fellowship at a program he controlled (!) to a wicca-fash goth siren in the ukrainian freikorps' overseas skinhead recruitment department (!!), or the fact that the same wicca-fash siren used to do similar kind of work for dugin's journal and attended conferences in moscow at a program he controlled (!!!)
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Aug 29, 2022 07:50
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I kind of tuned out of the gray zone when they started going absolutely antivaxx over covid. Is it good again or are there any other options for non lovely news outlets.
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Aug 29, 2022 08:11
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I kind of tuned out of the gray zone when they started going absolutely antivaxx over covid. Is it good again or are there any other options for non lovely news outlets. iirc that was only max blumenthal who went insane over covid, and I think it was more about mandates and restrictions than vaccines (but I might be wrong). in any case the original GZ split up and ben norton is now doing his own thing.
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Aug 29, 2022 08:27
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I kind of tuned out of the gray zone when they started going absolutely antivaxx over covid. Is it good again or are there any other options for non lovely news outlets. https://thegrayzone.com/2022/08/18/ukraine-veterans-us-aid-soldiers-war/
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Aug 29, 2022 08:46
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:I kind of tuned out of the gray zone when they started going absolutely antivaxx over covid. Is it good again or are there any other options for non lovely news outlets. Breakthrough news with Rania Khalek are good, they have a solid focus on anti-imperialism and developing countries
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Aug 29, 2022 08:50
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as much as max blumenthal will piss me off about something, he does actual journalism and is commissioning / editing it as a boutique publisher which is not easy to do and that also really pisses off the bad guys. he is actually causing problems for them, which is more than can be said for most people who just yap into a webcam. also, i can't think of anything he has said that is outright false or deliberately dishonest. he might have a warped perspective about vaccines, but that's a different thing from just telling lies or being intellectually dishonest. BrutalistMcDonalds has issued a correction as of 08:56 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 08:52
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Not So Fast posted:Breakthrough news with Rania Khalek are good, they have a solid focus on anti-imperialism and developing countries Oh yeah I've liked her stuff, think she was on a few episodes of radio war nerd
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Aug 29, 2022 08:55
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There's really not going to be such a thing as a media org that never misses. I could say WSWS has fairly good COVID reporting, but then they're rape apologists. A recent piece from Jacobin on the Philippine elections was excellent, plus Branco Marcetic's pre-war coverage of Ukraine, and some others, but then there's way too much "here's Latest Movie analyzed socialistically". ProPublica has done some great exposes, but also brag about how they uncovered too many COVID school shutdowns in the NY public school system and were bragging about how their investigation put a stop to it. You just have to learn to filter out the good stuff from the bad.
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Aug 29, 2022 09:12
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:a wicca-fash goth siren I thought wiccans weren't the racist ones.
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Aug 29, 2022 09:13
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gradenko_2000 posted:You just have to learn to filter out the good stuff from the bad. This and maxs brain worms about Covid have never made it on the site afaik.
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Aug 29, 2022 12:17
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once you stop being able to rely on consensus curation, you start having to do reality-adjusting yourself, which is incredibly difficult to do consistently. by divorcing from the hegemonic discourse you place yourself in a situation where you must make up your own mind on all sorts of issues and inevitably you're going to end up with some rather idiosyncratic views - when this happens collectively you get counter-narratives which can often collapse into simple conspiracy theory stuff like qanon. blumenthal's been mostly on his own tangent - you see something similar on the right with guys like peter hitchens clambering to a stone dead ideology of social consevativism, but that outside perspective does often give him a clearer view of some situation than many mainstream reporters simply because he's forced to actively look at what's going on and try to make up his mind. when you do this sort of thing you will often be wrong, but you'll be wrong on your own terms in ways which you can usually defend in an honest way, which is a somewhat different kind of wrong from the way the mainstream is wrong - when the mainstream is wrong, it is *institutionally* wrong and that is much worse than some person being a crank.
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Aug 29, 2022 14:50
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:You know he can be a fed and be correct that Alexander Dugin is a fascist. The bad guys can sometimes be correct. I also don't consider myself a "revolutionary" whatever that is supposed to mean. Do I look like Che? Note “wannabe”. Also how was a man who denounces racism a fascist? Truthfully the only place that ideology exists is Ukraine. Hmm that just with likely Fairfax approval murdered this man’s daughter. But look this is why I say the left is a dead end. Labor has a future but it isn’t from a willfully compromised increasingly cultish movement that prioritises symbols over actual victory. Speaking of the Grayzone Jackson Hinkle had Max Blumenthal on to talk about the foreign policy machinations of the enemy. As well as how they have their goblins controlling Wired,TDB, and Rolling Stone. I’ll add I think Blenenthel is a bit to sour on America’s situation. But a great interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uYmEy5yR2U Crowsbeak has issued a correction as of 14:58 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 14:51
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Crowsbeak posted:Note “wannabe”. Also how was a man who denounces racism a fascist? Truthfully the only place that ideology exists is Ukraine. Hmm that just with likely Fairfax approval murdered this man’s daughter. But look this is why I say the left is a dead end. Labor has a future but it isn’t from a willfully compromised increasingly cultish movement that prioritises symbols over actual victory. Guess who's back, back again Crowsbeak's back, he's braindead Guess who's back, guess who's back? Guess who's back, guess who's back? Guess who's back, guess who's back? Guess who's back?
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Aug 29, 2022 15:04
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can one of our iks shoot crowsbeak with a rocket launcher
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Aug 29, 2022 15:07
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The newest Radio War Nerd has Mark Ames relating an anecdote about seeing Dugin at the Nazbol arthaus in the 90s trying to preach esoteric fascist spritualism to punks and street kids while getting nothing back but confused stares.Crowsbeak posted:I’ll add I think Blenenthel is a bit to sour on America’s situation. do your synapses go dark when you think of Amerikkka badly?
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Aug 29, 2022 15:12
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Crowsbeak posted:Labor has a future but it isn’t from a willfully compromised increasingly cultish movement that prioritises symbols over actual victory. You're describing patsoc, the movement that wants to gently caress the flag
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Aug 29, 2022 15:14
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Crowsbeak posted:Note “wannabe”. Also how was a man who denounces racism a fascist? Atatürk denounced Hitler and racism but he was a racist and a fascist, for example
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Aug 29, 2022 15:17
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The newest Radio War Nerd has Mark Ames relating an anecdote about seeing Dugin at the Nazbol arthaus in the 90s trying to preach esoteric fascist spritualism to punks and street kids while getting nothing back but confused stares. I mean he just said he thought that the west as a whole including America was probably not going to be able to easily reverse as in the next ten years the insane trajectory it’s on. I think the system will fall apart in that time. But I can understand why he has a sour outlook especially when you see the quasi fascist stuff being contemplated in Europe to deal with energy protestors as well as the fact the democrats are attacking labor at home with the GOP’s help. mawarannahr posted:Atatürk denounced Hitler and racism but he was a racist and a fascist, for example So now fascism means racism. Does that make every power that takes part in WW1 fascist? Does that make PRI Mexico fascist? Like it’s a word that effectively has no meaning. I’ll apply it to people who actually honor Mussolini, Ceucescu, Arrow Cross, Or Hitler.
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Aug 29, 2022 15:30
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Atatürk carried out the most successful ethnic cleansing campaign of modern history.
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Aug 29, 2022 15:32
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Pablo Nergigante posted:You're describing patsoc, the movement that wants to gently caress the flag So why would it be bad if Socialism flew the flag of the USA? When it flies the flag of Bolivar? Or the flag of Bonaparte or the flag slave owner Tulon? Historical continuity is a good thing.
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Aug 29, 2022 15:33
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Atatürk carried out the most successful ethnic cleansing campaign of modern history. Yes. And neo colonialists did the same in Africa. PRI did it in Mexico. Hell Stalin did so to Crimeans, Volga Germans and Chechens for rebellion in WW2. Were they all fascist? Liberal Romanticiat Bulgarians, and Greeks, as well as Serbian conservative nationalists all did ethnically cleanse Turks from their lands, were they Fascists? George Washington also did something similar to the Iroquois for siding with Britain was he a fascist? Hell, we’ve got Cromwell displacing the Irish for being Catholic. Was that fascism? Terms have to have context to mean anything. Crowsbeak has issued a correction as of 15:38 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 15:35
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Crowsbeak posted:So now fascism means racism. Does that make every power that takes part in WW1 fascist? Does that make PRI Mexico fascist? Like it’s a word that effectively has no meaning. I’ll apply it to people who actually honor Mussolini, Ceucescu, Arrow Cross, Or Hitler. Atatürk was a racist and a fascist in the corporatist sense, and by other definitions. and a murderer of communists.
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Aug 29, 2022 15:46
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mawarannahr posted:Atatürk was a racist and a fascist in the corporatist sense, and by other definitions. and a murderer of communists. He hated communists so much he made extensive ties to the USSR. Also, if Corpratism is fascism are we now arguing that post ww2 europe was fascist? Was PRI of Mexico fascist? Was America during ww2 fascist?
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Aug 29, 2022 15:55
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Crowsbeak posted:He hated communists so much he made extensive ties to the USSR. Also, if Corpratism is fascism are we now arguing that post ww2 europe was fascist? Was PRI of Mexico fascist? Was America during ww2 fascist? the Bolsheviks helped fund the Turkish war of independence because it worked out for them, since they had a common enemy in the imperialists. Kemal was fine with taking gold and ammo etc from the communists but did not brook their presence inside Turkey. that’s why he had the founder of the communist party of Turkey (along with some of his comrades) rowed out and drowned. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Subhi quote:Suphi was killed by Sailor Yahya together with his communist comrades while traveling to Batumi in the Black Sea on 28 January 1921. if you want to find more stuff about this in English I think Bülent Gökay goes into it. most of the history is untranslated through.
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Aug 29, 2022 16:02
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Crowsbeak posted:So why would it be bad if Socialism flew the flag of the USA? When it flies the flag of Bolivar? Or the flag of Bonaparte or the flag slave owner Tulon? Historical continuity is a good thing. Why would it be bad if Germany flew the flag of the Third Reich?
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Aug 29, 2022 16:05
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Crowsbeak posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihh-7DoDAEY&t=7200s
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Aug 29, 2022 16:07
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Pablo Nergigante posted:Why would it be bad if Germany flew the flag of the Third Reich? I mean why would the Germans want to associate their flag with a regime that lasted 12 years of their thousand year long history that famously ended with Germany dismantled, as well as a pariah state. I mean it be quite weird to want to associate with that.
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Aug 29, 2022 16:26
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mawarannahr posted:the Bolsheviks helped fund the Turkish war of independence because it worked out for them, since they had a common enemy in the imperialists. Kemal also did not brook ultranationalists, Liberal pluralists, or religious fundamentalism. Sounds like a secular Authoritarian to me. Much like the PRI in Mexico. These terms require context to make sense.
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Aug 29, 2022 16:28
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Crowsbeak posted:Kemal also did not brook ultranationalists, Liberal pluralists, or religious fundamentalism. Sounds like a secular Authoritarian to me. Much like the PRI in Mexico. These terms require context to make sense. nice whataboutism. He was a racist and a fascist though, however you look at it
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Aug 29, 2022 16:48
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mawarannahr posted:nice whataboutism. He was a racist and a fascist though, however you look at it Whaboutiem matters when you make this specific claim that Attaturk somehow qualified under a system that historically engaged in the idea of national rejuvenation through conquest and was noted for its adamant, international anti communism. He made alliances when few would with said communists and actually suppressed real fascists in his own country. I’d say you don’t know what you’re talking about.
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Aug 29, 2022 16:57
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you know who else made alliances of convenience with communists and suppressed troublesome domestic fascists
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Aug 29, 2022 17:04
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StashAugustine posted:you know who else made alliances of convenience with communists and suppressed troublesome domestic fascists
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Aug 29, 2022 17:21
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Crowsbeak posted:So now fascism means racism. Does that make every power that takes part in WW1 fascist? Does that make PRI Mexico fascist? Like it’s a word that effectively has no meaning. I’ll apply it to people who actually honor Mussolini, Ceucescu, Arrow Cross, Or Hitler. Better apply it to Dugin then because he's praised the Waffen-SS, the Strassers, and Reinhard Heydrich as shining examples of the kind of "Eurasianism" that he envisions for the future: quote:Dugin is a prolific Russian publicist who has caused attention in the West by the virulence of his fanatic anti-Westernism, above all anti-Americanism. There is a lot of paranoia and conspirology flying around today in Moscow, where it has become commonplace to think that the United States is, in one way or another, responsible for most, if not all, of Russia's (or even the world's) recent misfortunes. It is for reasons like this that it is widely accepted that Dugin is a fascist. Here's a scholar talking about it with regards to his most famous book, the Foundations of Geopolitics: quote:The second line of inquiry deals with the relationship between formal geopolitics and neo-fascism (understood, after Griffin, 1995, as a movement adapting original fascist ideas to post-war conditions, and more particularly in this context, to postCold War conditions). There are two elements to this. The first concerns the definition of fascism itself. If anything, fascism has proven a more difficult and contentious term than geopolitics, as testified by the immense literature on the subject (the collections edited by Laqueur (1996) and Griffin (1995, 1998) provide useful introductions to fascist writings and interpretations of fascism). I proceed from the argument that, while recognizing the inherent dangers of rationalizing and normalizing a phenomenon widely considered to be illegitimate, it is useful to consider Dugin in relation to what might be thought of as a broad fascist tradition, understood in terms of a particular constellation of ideas generally characterized by extreme reaction to the experience of modernity, articulated around a mythic core which “in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultra-nationalism”, where palingenesis relates to the idea of rebirth (Griffin, 1995, p. 4; see also Griffin, 1991). Many writers and activists who can be argued to lie within this tradition reject the fascist label themselves, particularly in Russia where the term is generally thought applicable only to the Nazi regime. Fascism then becomes an alien phenomenon. Dugin adopts this approach to the term (see his response to the charge levelled by Yanov, 1995, at arctogaia.com/public/txt-yanov.htm), although he does profess sympathy and liking for early periods within Italian Fascism and German National Socialism, while, he argues, the former retained its avant gardism and the latter its socialism (Dugin, 1995). The second element, then, is the historical relationship between fascism and Geopolitics, and particularly the experience of Geopolitik in Weimar and Nazi Germany (Bassin, 1987; see also Murhpy, 1997). Or here's a philosopher going back to basic principles to show in elaborate detail that contemporary (i.e., 2010s) Dugin reads Nazi theorists like Heidegger to reach the same fascist conclusions as them, even if he names those conclusions by different terms or points them at different enemies. quote:If Roger Griffin’s famous definition is to be followed, a thought becomes “fascist” – that so contested, and so polemical a notion – when it posits as the one thing needful a national rebirth (palingenesis) from liberal corruption, engendered by malign external and internal agents (like the Jews for Nazism, but immigrants and Moslems today).51 For this reason, Griffin has been consistently sceptical that we can insulate a benevolent interwar “conservative revolution” from the regimes of Mussolini and Hitler, in contrast to Dugin and others in the Nouvelle Droite.52 Your hair-splitting over what really is fascism anyway, maaaan, in some insane attempt to defend Alexander Dugin even after people have repeatedly shown you to be completely wrong is bizarre and tiresome and dominating a thread that could otherwise be talking about something else. Kindly shut up about it or I will probe you until you get the hint. vyelkin has issued a correction as of 17:28 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 17:26
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dugin is a "real fascism hasn't been tried" type. italian fascism wasn't "officially" racist for awhile either and there were prominent members of the fascist party who opposed the adoption of "racial" laws although they placed a special role in history for italians. dugin also started out in obscure anti-communist circles that were wrapped up in "esoteric traditionalist" thinkers like guenon and "super-fascist" evola, joined pamyat, but was expelled from that organization to then spend years networking for european far-right figures like benoist and thiriart
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Aug 29, 2022 17:41
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Crowsbeak posted:Also how was a man who denounces racism a fascist? 
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Aug 29, 2022 18:11
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hitlerite mods coming in to stop real anti imperialists? you hate George Washington
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Aug 29, 2022 18:14
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