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Thundarr posted:Susano is great because he's having such a grand old time fighting this audacious weirdo who broke into his house to *return* his stuff that he doesn't even mind that he loses. Truly he is Party Dad. He doesn't even want to kill you or temper you dude just wants a fun time.
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Aug 28, 2022 17:34
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To add to the discussion of side quests, modern FF14 often gives me a feeling of struggling heavily with being an MMO versus being an RPG, and that it's gotten too big for its own good in some ways. Sidequests are abundant and in every expansion even when the main story's pacing wouldn't seem to allow for them, because it's an MMO and you're expected to have lots of sidequests (and they often genuinely do have interesting bits of story and lore about wherever you're at). But, as Sang has noted, the story is often very urgently gogogo and if you come back later the quests still assume you're at the point in the narrative when they first opened up. They aren't even particularly good experience for leveling, and only in Shadowbringers do tribal quests start level-scaling and become a good source of experience for leveling alt classes. I also miss very much from SWTOR how that game regularly has unique commentary in class-agnostic quests based on your own class and sometimes race, instead of how role-specific comments in 14 tend to be a once-per-expansion thing. Yes, there is of course a valid argument to be made that it's adding more work for content not many people are going to see, the same reason why WoW largely dropped class-specific quests and content and 14's class quests have become so vestigial over the years, but it's an element of detail and flavor that I appreciate very much when I see it and notice when it's not present. I feel that the scope of FF14 - not just in terms of story, but how much space and how many classes and races there are - has gotten away from what best serves the game, in some respects.
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Aug 28, 2022 17:53
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My Susano story is that back in 2017, I went to E3 and E3 was happening like 2 weeks pre-Stormblood. The FFXIV booth had the Susano fight playable and you could come with a group of 8 or just get paired with other E3-goers to try Susano. If you won, you got a t-shirt that says "I Beat Susano" I was by myself at E3 so after waiting in the loving long rear end lines (it was one of the first years they were experimenting with letting the public in) I got paired up with 7 other people. The unfortunate thing was - some of these people had never touched FFXIV and just wanted to see what it was about. You're given like 5 minutes to pick a class and get your hotbar set up and then you're thrown into the fight and given 20-25 minutes to beat it. I was still a healer main then, so I played AST. Attempt 1 - We got to the sword phase and wiped. Attempt 2 - We got past the sword phase (barely) and did pretty well, and wiped. It was during this run that I realized two of the DPS literally had never touched FFXIV before. One was playing a SAM and was just running around at ranged pressing buttons but doing nothing. Since the fight is so flashy, she thought she was contributing but was just overwhelmed with the spectacle. Attempt 3 - We're told that this will be the last attempt we have time for. We make it past the first phase. We make it past the sword phase. We make it into the final phase and the boss has like 15% health left. One tank goes down. A DPS goes down. The off tank goes down. The group descends into panic. All is lost. We tried. We failed. I look up at the limit break bar and we are 98% to LB3. I go position myself as far from the boss as I can right as it ticks full. The remaining DPS are dropping one by one. By the time the LB3 goes off, it was myself and one DPS remaining. Everyone is brought back right as Susano strikes me down. The other healer gets me back up and we go on to defeat him. It was one of the most intense gaming experiences I ever had.
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Aug 28, 2022 18:59
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Did you get the shirt?
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Aug 28, 2022 19:08
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Did you get the shirt? gently caress yeah.
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Aug 28, 2022 19:19
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Since we're talking about Party Uncle, I'd like to highlight something that's sort of tangential to this LP but is Very Cool: a FC called Hometown Domina (an offshoot of the doujin music group Zephyr Cradle) has put out an album of ffxiv music remixes for every expansion, and Stormblood was no exception. One of the songs they remixed was Susano's theme, and it kind of owns (the albums are offered as free downloads by the artists, but I'm rehosting because spoilers in other titles and images on the page): https://on.soundcloud.com/879q the 2.x and 3.x albums can be found here and here respectively.
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Aug 28, 2022 19:51
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Susano's fight is wonderful and I love it. Susano himself is wonderful. God he's great.
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Aug 28, 2022 20:53
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:
That team’s name basically meant Reverse Fairy Tales. Urashima Taro (Literally Boy of the Seaside/Beach island) corrupted to Ura Urashima (Reverse Seaside Island), Kintaro (Golden Boy) corrupted to Makintaro (Demonic Golden Boy), Momotaro (Peach Boy) corrupted to Kuro Momotaro (Black Peach Boy), Ushiwakamaru (Dear Young Cow) the childhood name of Minamoto no Yoshitsune (whose clan Sanguinia talked about, and who is considered generally the greatest samurai) was corrupted to Shishiwakamaru (Dear Young Lion). Edit: In further Yoshitsune trivia Final Fantasy’s Gilgamesh is heavily based on Yoshitsune’s servant and companion Benkei. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 01:06
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Susano is one hell of a fight. I first ran it early in the expansion, and I don't believe any of us had any idea what to do. When the sword phase came, I stood in the spot, thinking it was a marker. I was playing as a BLM. I went squish and we wiped :V
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Aug 29, 2022 02:46
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If you know what you're doing, are appropriately geared, and have healers on the ball you can tank the sword with anybody, although as a BLM you'll need more shields than regen for your health.
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Aug 29, 2022 03:31
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The entire self-summoning that Susanoo does indicates that the mechanics of primal summoning can happen naturally if the right conditions are in place. Gilgamesh summoning Enkidu in Hildibrand is just a preview of this world-building. The three sacred treasures had stored up tons of faith from the kojin, but they lost one and put the remainder in a treasure vault/shrine. A vault full of aether-rich crystals and artifacts, full of stored faith and religious devotion. Completing the set of treasures in such a faithful place and adding the faith of the jewel to the area must have caused a chain reaction. The initial form of Susanoo just manifests as a primal in a low-energy state that uses the treasures as its body. And only after hearing from the Kojin and the Wol did he decide to have a celebration via ceremonial combat.
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Aug 29, 2022 08:35
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this is the trial that cemented my decision to tank in all new MSQ/normal content. it's never that demanding, so it's easier to watch both mechanics and any cool visuals, plus you have tank privilege for if you ever do mess up. And then every once in a while you get to block Susano's giant sword or LB3 against Alexander. e: also i doubt it's any kind of reference, but i always thought it was funny that susano's second phase (makes a giant robot out of water around himself) is basically just the same thing as susanoo does in naruto. also wonder if the localization team ever talked about the decision to localize with one o instead of two (as far as I can tell, not knowing much about japanese, the name he has there is スサノオ which looks to me like the name for which the usual translation is susanoo, but i assume that's because they figured susanoo (or 'o or -o) would get you "su-sa-new" instead of "su-sa-no-o" for pronunciation). Valentin fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 08:51
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:He doesn't even want to kill you or temper you dude just wants a fun time. A memorable dance, indeed!
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Aug 29, 2022 20:14
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Valentin posted:also wonder if the localization team ever talked about the decision to localize with one o instead of two (as far as I can tell, not knowing much about japanese, the name he has there is スサノオ which looks to me like the name for which the usual translation is susanoo, but i assume that's because they figured susanoo (or 'o or -o) would get you "su-sa-new" instead of "su-sa-no-o" for pronunciation). Susano is a common transliteration as well as Susano-o or Susanoo in all sorts of text, just slightly less popular. The reason is as you pointed out. There is no proper way to express Susano in English language in actuality; the Susanoo transliteration marks this as pronouncing this as 4 syllables, which is close to how its written (literally Su-Sa-No-O in Kanji), but it violates how English pronounces "oo" in sequence (think like double oo is pronounced in words like "choose" or "moose"). So Susano is a legitimate transliteration in a lot of media because it doesn't violate this pronunciation in English rules (in actuality, Susan-o is kind of close to how you could pronounce it in Japanese if you extend the o sound), in exchange for not expressing the two separate "No" and "O" characters at all. I personally prefer Susano-o as the transliteration as the best of both worlds (a repeated o or a wo sound is another way you could potentially consider the pronunciation), but transliteration of East Asian character-based languages is a whole mess of politics, history, and debate that's not worth declaring a "best" transliteration for. Anime/manga have mostly gone with Susanoo because many localizers in that space were raised in the fansub era before receiving further training in localization, and fansubbing has generally went with more literal character-to-English transliteration as a default (due to it being more intuitive when you're in the fan/amateur space). So it's just more familiar to those guys. AncientSpark fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 21:30
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WILD AND PURE AND FOREVER FREE *smashes u with a sword*
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Aug 29, 2022 23:47
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How our hearts sing in the chaos!
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Aug 30, 2022 00:43
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After facing off against the representations of a deeply theocratic nation and the embodiment of the unyielding hatred for that nation, it’s nice to have a big goof who just wants a fight for the thrill of it, and nothing else. Simple and clean is the way it should be…
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Aug 30, 2022 00:50
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One might even call it sport. Hmmmm...
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Aug 30, 2022 18:55
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I think another thing Susano is, is a helpful levity from the crushing depression of this expansion to this point. Up until this moment, Garlemald has been utterly unimpeachable, it's become quite clear that the victories you have won, against a fractured cut off XIVth legion, against the VIth after getting blown the gently caress up by Ysayle... you really can't measure up. They're everywhere, and they're winning, they've buried their boot on the necks of everyone, and the people suffer and grit their teeth and take it, and every time you've tried to step up, you've failed, you LOST to Zenos. WILD AND PURE AND FOREVER FREE Susano is not just the God of Revels, he's the representation of what you're fighting for, unbound freedom in the face of harrowing despair, he represents why you're here, he's not a primal summoned by a tribe to murder you, or for conquest, he came out to you, on his own, and he was curious and you proved yourself resiliant to him, how your hearts sing in the chaos. It is a fun fight, levity, and coincides with the first REAL turning point, of rallying people to freedom. At least, that's what came to me.
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Aug 31, 2022 17:00
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Onmi posted:I think another thing Susano is, is a helpful levity from the crushing depression of this expansion to this point. Up until this moment, Garlemald has been utterly unimpeachable, it's become quite clear that the victories you have won, against a fractured cut off XIVth legion, against the VIth after getting blown the gently caress up by Ysayle... you really can't measure up. They're everywhere, and they're winning, they've buried their boot on the necks of everyone, and the people suffer and grit their teeth and take it, and every time you've tried to step up, you've failed, you LOST to Zenos. I like this interpretation a lot now that you bring it up. As damaging as Primals can be, Susano didn't even bother to try tempering anyone either, which is far more than can be expected from the prior ones.
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Aug 31, 2022 23:00
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bladeworksmaster posted:I like this interpretation a lot now that you bring it up. As damaging as Primals can be, Susano didn't even bother to try tempering anyone either, which is far more than can be expected from the prior ones. Dude just wants to party. With swords.
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Sep 1, 2022 15:21
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bladeworksmaster posted:I like this interpretation a lot now that you bring it up. As damaging as Primals can be, Susano didn't even bother to try tempering anyone either, which is far more than can be expected from the prior ones. Yeah, some Primals don't seem to care about tempering as much as others. At the very least some seem to be more discerning with who they temper, Ifrit would take anyone he could, but Titan didn't seem to want alone other than Kobalds. Of course, Titan didn't like non-Kobalds so he would probably kill anyone else, so not much better. Other than Shiva, who didn't have her own personality, just Ysale's, have we seen any other Primals who didn't temper? Are the Mog Guard tempered by King Moggle Mog or are they just regular fanatics? Then again, Susano wasn't around for that long, so who knows if he would have started tempering if left to his own devices? Veotax fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 15:59
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Veotax posted:Other than Shiva, who didn't have her own personality, just Ysale's, have we seen any other Primals who didn't temper? Are the Mog Guard tempered by King Moggle Mog or are they just regular fanatics? The Mog Guard were tempered, yes. The only primals Kheris has encountered so far who we haven't tempered anyone are Phoenix, Enkidu, and Susano. Bismarck and Odin are question marks in that regard. We know that the Vanu who summoned Bismarck were assholes already, but I don't think it's ever been explicitly stated that they were tempered - though I'd be inclined to say that they were given that we know that the likes of Ramuh automatically tempered his summoners. Odin, it's implied the primal might be the sword and the guy holding the sword is some tempered schmuck but I don't think it was ever confirmed. There is circumstantial evidence that Odin has tempered people, but I don't think we've ever been shown such. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 16:04
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I don't remember if Titan Tempered people prior to Heavensward. It didn't really seem like he did, since the Kobolds had actual legitimate grievances against Limsa. Even the Tribal Quests, which usually are about the "good" faction of a given Tribe, don't have the 789th Order with any particular beef against Titan as a concept unlike the other ARR Quests.
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Sep 1, 2022 16:19
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Alexander never tempered either, not that it needed to since the Illuminati were batshit obsessed to begin with.
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Sep 1, 2022 16:24
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:I don't remember if Titan Tempered people prior to Heavensward. It didn't really seem like he did, since the Kobolds had actual legitimate grievances against Limsa. Even the Tribal Quests, which usually are about the "good" faction of a given Tribe, don't have the 789th Order with any particular beef against Titan as a concept unlike the other ARR Quests. I'm pretty sure the Company of Heroes Questline in ARR (but it might have been the older, longer version that was removed by the time Sang got there) explained that their method to fight Titan was to have 3 waves of fighters. The first wave get tempered, the second wave fight the first, the third wave fight Titan.
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Sep 1, 2022 16:25
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That version of the questline still has that info in it, I saw it when I ran it after the big ARR quest cull. Titan tempers primarily as self-defense, from what I recall.
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Sep 1, 2022 16:29
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I don't think Ravana tempered people either, though that one is very hazy. He could have, but by the same token, the Gnath are similar in their hive mind, so it could very well be that rather than tempering his minions, their native beliefs just perfectly align with his own on account of that. One mind, one belief, all bringing about a 'god' that shares it.
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Sep 1, 2022 16:31
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Likewise, there's a couple of references to Garuda tempering people simply as an instrument of terror. Mostly she just likes to kill people, but she explicitly tries to temper the WoL as a lesson to anyone else who would think to defy her.
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Sep 1, 2022 16:32
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Cythereal posted:The Mog Guard were tempered, yes. I'm pretty sure they covered that in the Urth's Fount questline in ARR.
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Sep 1, 2022 16:37
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Lord_Magmar posted:I'm pretty sure the Company of Heroes Questline in ARR (but it might have been the older, longer version that was removed by the time Sang got there) explained that their method to fight Titan was to have 3 waves of fighters. The first wave get tempered, the second wave fight the first, the third wave fight Titan. Now that you mention it, that sounds right. Rorahusky posted:I don't think Ravana tempered people either, though that one is very hazy. He could have, but by the same token, the Gnath are similar in their hive mind, so it could very well be that rather than tempering his minions, their native beliefs just perfectly align with his own on account of that. One mind, one belief, all bringing about a 'god' that shares it. Ravana is weird, because the Tribe Quests seemed to imply it was the Onemind (or whatever it was called) that Tempered people. But that would only work with the Gnath/Vath, so I would assume Ravana would have the power to enthrall people outside of his race.
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Sep 1, 2022 16:57
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Blueberry Pancakes posted:Ravana is weird, because the Tribe Quests seemed to imply it was the Onemind (or whatever it was called) that Tempered people. But that would only work with the Gnath/Vath, so I would assume Ravana would have the power to enthrall people outside of his race. Ravana explicitly said he was going to temper the WoL and Ysayle if they failed to best him in combat (granted they both have the Echo so he probably couldn't have made good on the threat).
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Sep 1, 2022 17:08
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Tempering upon summoning is something that happens. After summoning, it is entirely at the whim of the individual primal whether or not they do more tempering, but the initial summoner is always tempered. In the gnath case, the onemind is definitely tempered AND has the ability itself to control individuals. It isn't necessarily tempering the vath under its control. They're just a part of the larger hivemind. The onemind isn't tempering our bugfriends so much as that's just how they generally operate. There are probably a mass of tempered bugdudes that make up the bulk of the onemind's core functions - like the queen is tempered or something not necessarily everyone that she controls. I can't recall the bugmen hierarchy from HW.
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Sep 1, 2022 17:13
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The agenda and mental state of the summoner seems to matter too. Susano is accidentally summoned by someone who is tempering-proof and likes a good fight, so they throw a sword party for you. REJOICE!
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Sep 1, 2022 17:24
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Mr. Nice! posted:Tempering upon summoning is something that happens. After summoning, it is entirely at the whim of the individual primal whether or not they do more tempering, but the initial summoner is always tempered. I don't know if it's automatic- that would imply that Ysayle was tempered, which didn't really seem to be the case. Or Thordan I guess, but hard to tell with him. Edit: Also our little Kobold baby who accidentally summoned Titan- but he's so mentally scarred that who knows.
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Sep 1, 2022 18:02
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Ysale has the echo, that would protect her from tempering.
Galaga Galaxian fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 18:09
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Schwartzcough posted:I don't know if it's automatic- that would imply that Ysayle was tempered, which didn't really seem to be the case. Or Thordan I guess, but hard to tell with him. Ysale is a different situation than a standard summoning. I don't know how much is known at this point in the story, but Shiva wasn't summoned by her followers which is why they're not tempered by her, and Ysale isn't tempered to anything per se. Thordan and his knights were absolutely tempered. Thordan was the vessel by which the primal was acting directly, and he was on a quest to do what all primals do - consume. The knights of the round were also tempered and given semi-primal powers. Ga bu is also tempered, but isn't trying to resummon Titan because of the particular circumstances of that summoning Titan wasn't trying to temper people.
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Sep 1, 2022 18:11
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The Knights weren't just given semi-primal powers, they were in fact all primals of the knights of the round themselves in the same way King Thordan is. They all used the same summoning method as Ysayle did with Shiva. This is hard confirmed in the first lore book if the in game comparison immediately after the Vault wasn't enough.
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Sep 1, 2022 18:32
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Thank you for the clarification.
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Sep 1, 2022 18:55
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Cirina posted:The Knights weren't just given semi-primal powers, they were in fact all primals of the knights of the round themselves in the same way King Thordan is. They all used the same summoning method as Ysayle did with Shiva. This is hard confirmed in the first lore book if the in game comparison immediately after the Vault wasn't enough. Key difference is Ysayle has the echo and they don't.
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Sep 2, 2022 02:42
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