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Around here people would buy a small box of nitrus canisters at a head shop and use the previously mentioned cracker + a balloon, actual whipped cream cans were the domain strictly of clocked-in bus boys waiters and dishwashers (the line cooks probably had something even stronger). Also, plenty of people around here seemed to know where to get nitrous tanks. Everybody goes nuts for it, and there was tons of money in it outside music venues. Hell, when cops came they'd just abandon the tank, take their fistfuls of cash and setup another tank across the block. The cops wouldn't even pursue they'd just tell people to gently caress off with their megaspeaker. (That was one specific small organized group I observed, but it seemed commonplace). I'm in the northeast btw. Regulating nitrus canisters makes sense from a government PoV, but regulating actual whipped cream seems kinda laughable. Also don't let them catch you with the tank at a music festival, don't know if it's the fear of people 'phishing out', the money and thus potential for violence, or just that the security guys want to do your inhalants, but I've heard stories of people getting the piss beat out of them/dragged behind gators.
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Aug 29, 2022 13:05
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Does the bill actually ban whipped cream sales? I saw a comment on a different site (for hackers…) claiming most articles are getting it wrong. quote:This article (and every other article I can find on the ban) conflates whipped cream cans[1] with whipped cream chargers[2], which is what the law[3] bans. The link provided by Discendo Vox similarly makes no mention of whipped cream either Discendo Vox posted:It's a neurotoxin with long-term use. Also the bill went into effect last November; here it is. It's getting press because the retail association just noticed it and has started enforcing it (which should give you an idea of how important it is to all involved). The definition from there: quote:Section 1 amend the general business law by adding a new section 399-ii to define the term "whipped cream charger" as a steel cylinder or cartridge filled with nitrous oxide, that, is commonly used in a whipped cream dispenser. What’s going on here? Is Reddit-Whip really prohibited for minors or just Whip-Its?
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Aug 29, 2022 13:17
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BRJurgis posted:Also don't let them catch you with the tank at a music festival, don't know if it's the fear of people 'phishing out', the money and thus potential for violence, or just that the security guys want to do your inhalants, but I've heard stories of people getting the piss beat out of them/dragged behind gators. Nitrous mafia. Because prohibition.
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Aug 29, 2022 13:35
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I don't know what reddit whip is but it's high on my list of things I never want to know the taste of
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Aug 29, 2022 13:36
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-Blackadder- posted:If you want an idea of how states with GOP controlled legislatures would look post-ISL, the closest right now would probably be Ohio.* Chiming in anecdotally on this: I grew up in Ohio and lived there until I was 24. It was a prosperous, optimistic place for a long time, especially during the Clinton years and you could see the growth everywhere. Some schools were underfunded because of FYGM homeowners who never wanted to vote for a levy, but you could still by and large get a good education, attend an extremely affordable public university (my undergrad education cost a whopping $4k), land a job in the field of your training, and enter Ye Olde Middle Classe with relative ease. The bigger cities (Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland, Toledo, etc.) had their share of problems, but still had good cultural amenities and a decent quality of life. Now, I fear going home because it has become such a chud haven that it's basically the deep south (and I say this living in Texas). Even as a cis white male, I don't feel safe. It started with the Financial Crisis in 2008, which wiped out every vestige of prosperity and security and then only intensified in the Obama years when people wouldn't accept even the idea of Marriage Equality or the Affordable Care Act. Trump played into that rage and latent racism, and now the state will probably never go Democratic again. It's sad, because there were a lot of great things about Ohio at one point, but now it's one of the worst examples of social and political decay... ...next to Texas.
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Aug 29, 2022 13:59
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Kalit posted:It’s fascinating that 18-20 year olds can buy a gun in NY but not canned whipped cream….. In 1978 when I was at University (yes, I am that old), one of students in our dorm had a TV-Typewriter terminal in his room attached to an acoustic coupler 110 Baud modem. He would access ARPANET via Wharton’s dialup and chat with Stanford. So Whippits (the nitrous oxide canisters used to make whipped crème) which were legal in PA were traded with Stanford for a particular variety of mushroom. VideoGameVet fucked around with this message at 15:15 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 15:10
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Oracle posted:They should appoint Hillary Clinton. That would be a total Dark Brandon move. I like it.
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Aug 29, 2022 15:12
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If you are worried about your child maybe having nunchucks, whipped cream, or being able to buy night time cough medicine without being denied or harassed, definitely move to nanny state new york.
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Aug 29, 2022 15:24
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As expected, FBI has completed their review of the Trump documents. https://twitter.com/DevlinBarrett/status/1564260557875732480?s=20&t=6lBxdjn6GrKQAVPvD495rA
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Aug 29, 2022 15:43
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Cranappleberry posted:you misread my post. I don't really think I misread the post. You don't think a broad array of gen eds should be required. I do, because "I don't understand why they wanted me to take a history class in college" is what computer touchers say right before they use ML to reinvent phrenology. The problem you cite here is one created by the notion that every degree everywhere should be completed in 8 semesters (which is itself largely the fault of college being so obscenely expensive), not by the classes required to earn it.
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Aug 29, 2022 16:10
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Baronash posted:I don't really think I misread the post. You don't think a broad array of gen eds should be required. I do, because "I don't understand why they wanted me to take a history class in college" is what computer touchers say right before they use ML to reinvent phrenology. The problem you cite here is one created by the notion that every degree everywhere should be completed in 8 semesters (which is itself largely the fault of college being so obscenely expensive), not by the classes required to earn it. I was a humanities major and the gen ed requirements basically made it impossible for us to become competitive for grad school admissions in four years. Either an extensive high school background or a post bac was generally needed to get enough of a handle on the two modern and two ancient languages required if you didn't grow up speaking any of them.
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Aug 29, 2022 16:21
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VideoGameVet posted:In 1978 when I was at University (yes, I am that old), one of students in our dorm had a TV-Typewriter terminal in his room attached to an acoustic coupler 110 Baud modem. He would access ARPANET via Wharton’s dialup and chat with Stanford. what code word did you use for this. or was ARPANET (drat youre old and cool) just being ARPANET just thought to be secure/private in and of itself?
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Aug 29, 2022 17:03
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slurm posted:I was a humanities major and the gen ed requirements basically made it impossible for us to become competitive for grad school admissions in four years. Either an extensive high school background or a post bac was generally needed to get enough of a handle on the two modern and two ancient languages required if you didn't grow up speaking any of them. this is exactly the issue. It becomes so much of a time and effort sink. Full-time school is 12 credits, which is fine if you plan to spend many years in schooling or don't know what you want to do so you take gen ed requirements and also writing requirements. Generally people take 15 credits to start. for a pure science degree, 1st semester: calc I or II (or a, b or c) - 3-4 credits as some schools require recitations. primary science course, calculus based (gen chem I or II, physics I or II or a, b, c, etc) - 3-4 credits primary science lab - 1 credit writing course - 3 credits gen ed requirement - 3 credits school intro course - 1 credit continues to the next level for the second semester. 14 credits minimum, 16 if the school uses recitations and that's considered a low semester. This is assuming that honors courses are not taken. Some schools combine labs with the course but that isn't typical for a school that is science or engineering-focused. Now add in part or full-time work to that. In the second year a second calculus-based science must be done for degree requirements (like general chemistry for general physics degree or physics for chemistry degree). In addition to this, the required labs for each and 2 credit labs start for the more advanced science course. Labs can run from 3 hours to up to 6 hours, sometimes 2-3 times a week plus a lecture course. Splitting up calculus and physics into 3 parts is fine but it's also more time, money and effort spent. Then the general education requirements which still must be done. Every year the books get updated and there is more to learn for incoming students. You can get a humanities degree or a double-major and still end up with yet more classes you need to take if you are hoping to get into medical school. I believe biochemistry has the highest credit-hour requirements of any bachelor's degree. Engineering tends to be a bit more streamlined because it rolls into a master's degree in the 4th and/or 5th year. For chemistry, an analytical chemistry + lab has to be fit in in the second year, as well as ascending levels + their labs (gen chem -> organic -> physical), biochemistry, a specific writing course, maybe statistics, then finally, multiple upper-level chemistry and lab courses. This, plus general physics and all the way to calculus III or linear algebra. Half your time is spent on general education requirements. Cranappleberry fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 17:04
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slurm posted:I was a humanities major and the gen ed requirements basically made it impossible for us to become competitive for grad school admissions in four years. Either an extensive high school background or a post bac was generally needed to get enough of a handle on the two modern and two ancient languages required if you didn't grow up speaking any of them. That's pretty nuts, is this a new thing? I don't think even Linguistics majors had that requirement, only two modern languages.
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Aug 29, 2022 17:07
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Mercury_Storm posted:That's pretty nuts, is this a new thing? I don't think even Linguistics majors had that requirement, only two modern languages. It was Classics, so Latin and Greek obviously, but then also German and French because it was expected you could read them very fluently because more of the scholarship was conducted in those languages than in English. And then your actual historical or archaeological classes if you were focusing in archaeology especially, and then the gen eds on top with no allowance. Combined Latin/Greek was the highest number of credit hours of any major, even more than engineering majors which had bare bones gen eds. The German and French were not formal requirements, just expectations/requirements for grad school. slurm fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 17:12
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Mercury_Storm posted:That's pretty nuts, is this a new thing? I don't think even Linguistics majors had that requirement, only two modern languages. I have a BA and an MS in Linguistics and I only had to take two years of foreign language.
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Aug 29, 2022 17:15
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I also majored in Classics, and while my school didn't require the two modern languages, it was pretty well known that if you wanted to go on to a competitive post-graduate program -- or just to be taken seriously as a scholar -- you'd want to be able to read at least German and ideally some French as well. I studied Latin all through junior high and high school, so I wasn't quite as drowned in beginning language classes as some folks were my freshman year, but coming in with some German or French under your belt as well as Latin or Greek was definitely an advantage. ETA: I am, however, also older than dirt, so it's quite possible that this is no longer expected these days. Lychnis fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 18:39
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Baronash posted:College does not exist to be job training, and talking about it like it needs to be turned into some stripped down training program is gross. I think it’s kind of necessary for college to be more this way for the idea of ‘free college tuition’ to make sense. Or it would have to put quotas on degrees for which the job market is just too small to support all of the graduates. Not only would the government subsidizing a huge number of e.g. classics degrees be a kind of dubious investment from the government’s point of view, it’s not really kind to the people graduating from these programs for them to graduate into a job market where what they studied in college is not really valued by potential employers. It’s wasteful from the point of view of the government’s budget AND the students’ time to put a lot of people through college programs which are designed to train you how to become a graduate student in Humanities Subject X when there isn’t much of a demand for graduate students in Humanities Subject X.
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Aug 29, 2022 19:04
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silence_kit posted:I think it’s kind of necessary for college to be more this way for the idea of ‘free college tuition’ to make sense. Or it would have to put quotas on degrees for which the job market is just too small to support all of the graduates. If the government is thinking of jobs as a way to invest money in students for them to produce that later in life at a job, then that's a huge mistake. As automation gradually reduces the need for people to work, we need to move to an egalitarian wealth redistribution and an education system that helps people grow in whatever way they choose.
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Aug 29, 2022 19:24
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Also the level of interest in these niche majors has always been very low. There were seven of us in my concentration. I don't think cutting the number of well-funded academic positions to the bone the way we have in these fields has paid off; just look at how difficult it is to find anyone with a "sense" for any historical period or distant country actually writing about it for the public. I feel like the US has a very low level of humanities in general at this point, and I say that as someone who disliked it and became an engineer.
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Aug 29, 2022 19:35
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University is not for job training, it's ridiculous to look at it that way. "Oh, you got a degree in history? Well that's useless, innit?" I mean, factually speaking, very few people give a poo poo about anything that's directly studied during that degree, yes. But, having done a few history courses for breadth requirements: anyone who can complete that degree, is smart and well-rounded as gently caress. I don't care that you know a lot about history, I care that anyone with that degree can probably be trained in short order to do literally anything, and do it extremely well. "Oh, a gender studies major? Hahaha, you flake!" Yeah, I mean, what Serious Businessperson would care about... making the most of their available talent pool or increasing their sales, etc. by understanding gender, and gender relations, and how it influences society? lmao, am I right? The arts? Oh, brother, you better have a wide understanding of everything related to your field. Look at, for example, Picasso. He was an exceptional painter of completely "normal" things before he became famous for his own distinctive styles. In music, look at Iron Maiden; you don't luck into that poo poo because you LOVE SOME WICKED RIFFS, there's a deep understanding of musical theory and structure there, in addition to an appreciation of history and literature. The end point? Knowing poo poo for the sake of knowing poo poo, is fine and good. More people should know more and different poo poo!
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Aug 29, 2022 20:37
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John Fetterman doesn't give a hot gay gently caress what Congress saysquote:“It’s long past time that we finally decriminalize marijuana,” Fetterman said in a statement. “The president needs to use his executive authority to begin descheduling marijuana, I would love to see him do this prior to his visit to Pittsburgh. This is just common sense and Pennslyvanians overwhelmingly support decriminalizing marijuana.” haveblue fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 21:10
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my complaint was not that people should never take subjects they do not need for their degree or that those subjects are not important to study or that people shouldn't major in them if they want to. My complaint was 1. college is too expensive 2. some courses and majors are called useless and would be called wastes of taxpayer money, even though they are not and 3. so many general education requirements on top of degree course work makes the work load incredible
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Aug 29, 2022 21:14
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Cranappleberry posted:my complaint was not that people should never take subjects they do not need for their degree or that those subjects are not important to study or that people shouldn't major in them if they want to. On point 3, at least in the long ago when I was in college, certain majors (e.g. engineering) had different general education requirements than others (liberal arts majors, mostly). That sounds like a fixable problem by just considering which liberal arts majors are specialized enough they need a more limited set of general education requirements.
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Aug 29, 2022 21:22
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If my time as a grad instructor and professor in my own right are any indication, a depressing number of schools are if anything cutting back gen eds due to largely top-down pressure from admin shitheads to up graduation rates and/or turn universities into tech schools.
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Aug 29, 2022 21:26
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Happiness Commando posted:Nitrous mafia. Because prohibition. Yeah you go to shows and you will not uncommonly come across a neon green xerox sheet w/ a phone number etc. Walking back to car after a red rocks show and seeing wooks load up their car with balloons. One for each passenger and one for the driver. Popular in part because it has pleasant interactions w/ LSD. Wubba bub bub
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Aug 29, 2022 21:26
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Cranappleberry posted:My complaint was 1. college is too expensive 2. some courses and majors are called useless and would be called wastes of taxpayer money, even though they are not and 3. so many general education requirements on top of degree course work makes the work load incredible 1) Yes, I don't suppose anyone could argue with that. 2) We need to fight back against that. 3) It only appears that way if you believe that the breadth requirements aren't important to the degree itself, and how it will be used in practice. But they are. You could argue that the workload is unreasonable, but then I'd argue for a five-year undergraduate program rather than just cutting requirements out. I went to a university that had very little in the way of breadth requirements, and.... holy gently caress, it showed. I took courses outside my major because I found them really loving interesting whether I had to take them or not, and I think it made me a better student and a better person. Still graduated with the same number of credits, the minimum required for my degree. Now, why might the capital class want to eliminate such things? Well, cost, yes. But it's still the same number of credits either way. They want to eliminate history and other courses in the humanities because their engineers might start thinking twice about what they're working on. They want to eliminate those courses because it could lead to class awareness. They want highly trained people who don't think about the world they live in, who don't speak another language, who are in fact unable to imagine a world outside what they were trained for. PT6A fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 21:40
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Slightly off/on topic about education -- is there a general progressive stance on trade school support?
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Aug 29, 2022 21:49
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PT6A posted:University is not for job training, it's ridiculous to look at it that way. Knowledge for its own sake is all well and good, but most people tend to value more practical and useful kinds of knowledge over other kinds. For example, medical research is much more heavily funded by the US gov’t than theoretical physics. Medicine can save people’s lives, while the Higgs Boson doesn’t really do much of anything for people outside of the world of high energy physics. If you don’t look at it that way, then I think it undermines many of the claims in this thread like: ‘offering free college education is an investment into Americans’ future’ and ‘it will pay for itself’. Also, if your intent is to not become a professional academic in an area, there are many ways to learn about and study a subject outside of a 4 year college degree or a graduate degree program.
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Aug 29, 2022 21:51
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evilweasel posted:On point 3, at least in the long ago when I was in college, certain majors (e.g. engineering) had different general education requirements than others (liberal arts majors, mostly). That sounds like a fixable problem by just considering which liberal arts majors are specialized enough they need a more limited set of general education requirements. Yeah I think this makes the most sense. It's not like they're getting no breadth, but in the humanities there were several times more gen ed than major classes. It sucks sitting in a 400 person gen ed vs a 7 person seminar taught by the professors who were a big part of your choice of school
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Aug 29, 2022 22:01
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Many posters have said it more eloquently than I can, but subsiding private industry with myopic job training programs is not inherently more valuable than developing the population's knowledge and critical thinking skills. In fact we've been rendered incapable of navigating our environmental and social crises because our population doesn't have a suitably robust understanding of stuff like history, philosophy, and science.
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Aug 29, 2022 22:25
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silence_kit posted:Knowledge for its own sake is all well and good, but most people tend to value more practical and useful kinds of knowledge over other kinds. For example, medical research is much more heavily funded by the US gov’t than theoretical physics. Medicine can save people’s lives, while the Higgs Boson doesn’t really do much of anything for people outside of the world of high energy physics. Right, well the chances of an undergraduate doing meaningful research into either particle physics or medicine are so infinitesimal that I don't think we actually need to give a gently caress about them on any level. That is, completely, not the point. quote:Also, if your intent is to not become a professional academic in an area, there are many ways to learn about and study a subject outside of a 4 year college degree or a graduate degree program. You are quite correct, of course, but having professional guidance makes all that poo poo so much easier and better! And there's no real reason not to, because it's not actually that expensive. I'm not saying we should forbid autodidacts, of course, but I'm saying that if people want to learn about poo poo, we should let them. For me, it comes down to this: never once, in my entire loving life, have I looked around in frustration and said "you know what the problem is? Too many educated people." Let people study what they want, for free. Who gives a gently caress? Myself, I'm likely done with that poo poo, but if people want to keep going, I don't really care. My tax money can go toward that, it's fine. Now, if you're talking about stipends for living expenses during university, yes, I believe there does need to be some limit on that. But we aren't even close to discussing that, given that we've not even got free university.
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Aug 29, 2022 22:47
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my suggestion is to pay people to get degrees or trades that are in demand.
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Aug 29, 2022 22:50
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Has anyone considered that maybe colleges are somewhat woefully constructed to teach much of anything? As much as I want people to have a well rounded education and background, it doesn't actually work out that way. I dunno if it's all ultra remedial level learning or if it's just never retained, but honestly, how many people can say that the most well educated people they know are also the best informed? Particularly outside of their field? I know plenty of people with anywhere from a master's to a doctorate, and I know some of their schools had significant general education requirements, but that doesn't mean they know anything about anything. And it boils down to this: learning isn't some one-and-done venture that happens when you're young. Learning is a lifelong thing that you basically have to keep doing in order to actually have anything more than the thinnest veneer of understanding. Not sure how to apply that concept to school structure. I believe everyone should have easy, cheap access to good schooling, but in the end, I doubt it makes a huge difference. The big thing is, and always has been, about arbitrary employment gates.
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Aug 29, 2022 22:50
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MixMasterMalaria posted:Many posters have said it more eloquently than I can, but subsiding private industry with myopic job training programs is not inherently more valuable than developing the population's knowledge and critical thinking skills. In fact we've been rendered incapable of navigating our environmental and social crises because our population doesn't have a suitably robust understanding of stuff like history, philosophy, and science. ‘Critical thinking’ is a skill which is hard to define. One thing is certain, however. It can only be developed within a liberal arts education. More seriously though, there are a lot of people out there who are pretty smart and didn’t receive the benefit of a liberal arts education or any other kind of college education. edit: Almost every college major/degree is job training, it is just that a lot of majors are job training to be a graduate student. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Aug 30, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 22:52
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There are a lot of different ways to learn things and college shouldn't stand in the way of education, at a bare minimum
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Aug 29, 2022 22:54
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Slightly off/on topic about education -- is there a general progressive stance on trade school support? You're going to have to be more specific. In the broad sense, anyone who considers themselves on the left is going to support trade schools, they're extremely necessary to maintain a functioning society and there are a lot of people who aren't cut out for academics, and as such trade schools should be readily available and free. That's just the broadest possible strokes though, what specifically do you want to know?
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Aug 29, 2022 23:15
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In general, people do need to be broadly informed and able to critically analyze the world around them. However, the specific issue is that a lot of people are graduating college with crippling debt and a lack of technical skills they can use to support themselves.
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Aug 29, 2022 23:17
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Couple of days old but the White House has apparently ordered the one year embargo on publicly funded research projects to be lifted. I'm not an expert in this area but critics of the move are saying the subscription fees generated by this one year embargo fund things like "society activities" so yeah, sounds like another good policy outcome doing away with an open grift. This Joe Biden guy is pretty awesome. I wonder why I've never heard of him before August 2022.
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Aug 29, 2022 23:19
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Morrow posted:In general, people do need to be broadly informed and able to critically analyze the world around them. However, the specific issue is that a lot of people are graduating college with crippling debt and a lack of technical skills they can use to support themselves. Yes, hence why most everyone who isn't a GOP ghoul is saying the problem is the affordability of university. It's the GOP who are saying "oh, there's too many useless degrees."
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Aug 29, 2022 23:20
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