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Get ready for more claims of censorship, Truth Social not approved for Google play store Concerns about the (lack of) quality in moderation
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Aug 30, 2022 17:05
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Regarding gen ed chat, is part of the thought now that high schools aren't doing enough so we're having to remediate at the university level?
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Aug 30, 2022 17:12
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Twibbit posted:Get ready for more claims of censorship, Truth Social not approved for Google play store Also that it's likely a giant loving data vacuum. I was gonna try to run it in a sandboxed Android emulator but 
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Aug 30, 2022 17:45
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some plague rats posted:Can you give an example of two of what you mean by this? I have a friend who uses calculus to sew complex skirts.
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Aug 30, 2022 17:46
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slurm posted:Regarding gen ed chat, is part of the thought now that high schools aren't doing enough so we're having to remediate at the university level? I mean, that's almost certainly an issue for some, but it's more that the intention of a Bachelor's Degree was never that you learned intensely about one thing. The university I went requires 9 credits in Writing and Speaking, 6 in Quantification, 3 in Health and Wellness, 9 in Natural Sciences, 6 in Arts, 6 in Humanities, 6 in Social and Behavioral Sciences, and 6 credits in either linked or inter-domain courses. (You're allowed to make some substitutions, but never completely eliminate a subject area.) When I was attending, there were enough things that double-counted as requirements for my major and as a gen ed requirement that I basically finished the degree without earning enough credits to graduate, essentially making me take more electives. (Which I thought was great, actually.) We could quibble over the numbers, but asking someone to have a diverse background doesn't really seem out of line. (And we could definitely argue over occupations requiring a Bachelor's Degree when they could easily require an Associate's or some other less comprehensive education.)
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Aug 30, 2022 17:55
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Have we figured out if math is good or bad yet
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Aug 30, 2022 17:58
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Jaxyon posted:I have a friend who uses calculus to sew complex skirts. The real pain with that is getting the imaginary stitching to hold
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Aug 30, 2022 18:01
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Re: college chat - there really is a divide between the thought that the purpose is to create better informed and more well rounded citizens by giving them a broad spectrum of skills, and the thought that your education should be strictly based on your vocational / career choice and that architects don't need to know basic programming and comp Sci people don't need literature. I think personally I skew towards the former. I went in to college for computer engineering and some of my most cherished classes were literature and philosophy if only because they were so far off the beaten path for my degree. I think getting a little bit of many topics via Gen Ed classes go a long way to improving overall reasoning and cognition. Like if it was just about job skills training, I feel like that short changes a lot of people and plays into a very pro corporate mindset where you learn your one skill and then go to work in the Amazon Warehouse mines.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:04
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There used to be four jobs you would go to college for. Academic, medical doctor, lawyer, or clergy. For all of these things it was deemed important to have a general knowledge of other subjects befitting a "gentleman." Unfortunately, college has become vocational education for middle management. It would be like if we were still using monastic schools to teach everybody. It's a medieval guild that has been stapled onto a tertiary sector dominated economy. A hundred years ago, 1% of the population had college degrees. As someone who went to school for academia, it absolutely lowered the quality of education I received having to take biology classes with people who wanted to be social media managers.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:08
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So what answer are we telling people who whine that they had to sacrifice to make payments on their student loans for 20 years to get them paid off? I'm reading a lot of resentment from folks that are just bitter they had to forgo a lot of "leisure" kind of activities, single moms raising kids, or buying houses and stuff. The one thing I also keep seeing is the whole "irresponsibility" of taken out loans one can't afford to pay back, which is really strange since a college degree is viewed as an investment in ones future that would see a significant increase in earning potential compared to someone who only has a high school diploma. This whole "personal responsibility" poo poo is one of the most toxic things in American politics.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:09
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It's not just possessing a broad spectrum of skills, it's about being able to think as a sensible and consistent process, about any topic even if they've never encountered it before. Among other benefits, this makes people more resistant to misinformation, propaganda, and scams. No wonder no one in power thinks it's a priority.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:10
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I am for everyone getting a liberal arts education, just the university system might be the wrong way to do it.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:10
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G1mby posted:The real pain with that is getting the imaginary stitching to hold That's what square knots are for
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Aug 30, 2022 18:11
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Gadfly posted:So what answer are we telling people who whine that they had to sacrifice to make payments on their student loans for 20 years to get them paid off? I'm reading a lot of resentment from folks that are just bitter they had to forgo a lot of "leisure" kind of activities, single moms raising kids, or buying houses and stuff. If you got a 500k mortgage for a house worth 100k, based on what the seller told you, you wouldn't be irresponsible, you would've gotten scammed.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:12
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why do we have a thread title about gavin mcinnes and his bullshit, who gives a gently caress about him
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Aug 30, 2022 18:13
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Herstory Begins Now posted:why do we have a thread title about gavin mcinnes and his bullshit, who gives a gently caress about him I still mostly only care about black hammer and their joker makeup cult leader guy
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Aug 30, 2022 18:16
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I guess my big question is, if you WANT job training for something like classical archaeology, how are you supposed to get it? 4 years of gen ed "gentleman's school", 4 years of post bacc, 8 years of PhD (common in a fieldwork heavy field)? You're 34 before you hit the job market, vs a mathematician who has minimal gen eds and 4-5 years of doctorate, hitting the job market at 27.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:47
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Gadfly posted:So what answer are we telling people who whine that they had to sacrifice to make payments on their student loans for 20 years to get them paid off? I'm reading a lot of resentment from folks that are just bitter they had to forgo a lot of "leisure" kind of activities, single moms raising kids, or buying houses and stuff. I feel like a lot of these people were unaware of the existing ways to forgive student loans and that they would have been mad at those too.
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Aug 30, 2022 18:57
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cunningham posted:This is very well-put (college prof +1 chiming in!). My anecdote is that, despite my BS in a "hard science" like Chemistry, my competence in arts/humanities meant I was able to communicate with patients in ways that others more skilled in science lacked. I don't say this lightly: being able to communicate is a skill that takes effort to be able to do well. quote:Grants for trades education should be supported, too. My anecdote: as a postdoc, I not only made less per-hour than contemporaries whose job it was to build the building I was working in, but I took home less net pay. I learned this as a 28-year-old, talking to 23-year-olds working on my building. I think there are so many talented people who could work in trades, but don't because they perceive a barrier to entry. There really shouldn't be (I'm sure there is because Capitalism).
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Aug 30, 2022 19:01
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it is worth pointing out that demand for tradespeople is somewhat inelastic (i.e. it doesn't really change that much based on price) so if you create a big new program to train people for trades, you don't wind up with a ton of new people making what skilled tradespeople make now. instead you glut the market and have a bunch of people who don't have skills that can easily be applied elsewhere. part of the point of a highly educated populace is that education tends to be fairly flexible and the demand for highly educated people tends to expand to fit the pool of available people (if you have a whole shitton of computer touchers, some of those computer touchers are going to start companies that employ other computer-touchers and expand the demand for them). this is also why a lot of education is general instead of highly specialized - so you have graduates who can tend to transition to where the demand is, rather than if you miscalibrated have a glut that renders some people fairly unemployable and the others have little ability to demand high wages
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Aug 30, 2022 19:18
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Gadfly posted:So what answer are we telling people who whine that they had to sacrifice to make payments on their student loans for 20 years to get them paid off? I'm reading a lot of resentment from folks that are just bitter they had to forgo a lot of "leisure" kind of activities, single moms raising kids, or buying houses and stuff. I'm glad that some other folks don't have to suffer as I did. You're not going to make people saying "I'm bitter because things got better but not for me" feel better. They're going to have to come to terms with their own resentment.
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Aug 30, 2022 19:21
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Oracle posted:THIS. A MILLION TIMES this. I cannot tell you how many engineering/'hard' science geeks mock liberal arts majors and can't string a sentence together to save their loving lives. Like how is anyone going to know just how great your project/invention/app is if you can't loving explain it to the plebes, dude? You're trying to sell funding for your amazing invention to politicians, who are almost to a man either 1) lawyers or 2) 'small business owners' (read: car salesmen and legacy failsons who paid people to take classes for them) and they are going to fall asleep during your graphs and formulas. The college I went to only had six standard science majors offered (you could do custom majors and whatnot as well with the other colleges in the group) and a full third of your degree was in a wide variety of humanities. You had to take 10 full courses in the humanities (though smaller courses could be combined with advisor approval) along these four, overlapping requirements - 1. Concentration - Combination of entry level and advanced work in a specific area of the humanities with a variety of approaches to the topic. This means if you choose music, you aren't just taking performance classes, linguistics isn't just foreign language courses, etc. Four courses. 2. Distribution - Five courses taken in multiple, different fields of the humanities. 3. Writing - One course with a significant writing component. 4. Departmental - Four courses must be taken on campus to ensure that it remains an integral part of school. So yeah, I focused on music, and took a bunch of crazy stuff ranging from international environmental law (CITES CITES CITES), Chinese art history, and most importantly, a course teaching nerds how to communicate. You can't really avoid the techbro edgelords who refuse to care about anything other than getting hired at Uber, but you can see that the school is trying their damnedest to force you to actually learn why Robert Moses was a shithead and not to be like him when you become an engineer. quote:My incredibly ADD addled brother who could never sit still in a traditional classroom and once won a twenty dollar bet for jumping out of a two story window at school went into HVAC and makes more than I do as a college degree having computer toucher. He's also union. Yeah, it's amazing that it took a pandemic for computer touchers to start thinking about joining unions. I know have had several of my friends ask me about this, and man they have a lot to learn. The biggest misconception I've heard is that they seem to think that unions are only for blue collar jobs and are shocked to learn about engineering unions, sports unions, all the entertainment unions, nurses unions and so on. Also, it took a while for them to understand that you can bargain for more than just wages - working conditions, gender/race/disability equality, vacations, working hours, limits on overtime, healthcare benefits, more autonomy in how their job is done, etc etc.
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Aug 30, 2022 19:50
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Jaxyon posted:I'm glad that some other folks don't have to suffer as I did. I'll echo this as a GI-Bill-haver with lifelong service related disabilities and a long battle with PTSD that included some very dark times. A massive part of my career-oriented motivation is making sure my kid never has to go through the things I did in order to get an education. I sure as gently caress don't think other people's kids should.
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Aug 30, 2022 19:55
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Twibbit posted:Get ready for more claims of censorship, Truth Social not approved for Google play store A few more bits of truth news. They owe one one of their hosting companies over 1.5 million and havent paid it for who knows how long. And some general clusterfuckery because they are run by a group of morons. quote:Beyond financial issues, Truth Social and the blank check company it plans to merge with in order to go public are facing serious legal problems and regulatory probes that could derail those plans. https://www.axios.com/2022/08/29/truth-social-problems-trump
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Aug 30, 2022 19:58
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Dick Trauma posted:I found that article fascinating. When I was a kid I was interested in math but the learning experience left me stressed out and feeling stupid. As an adult even basic math sets off an anxiety response after decades of telling myself "you're no good at math." I don't even try. I remember being sick for almost a week in high school and when I returned I did poorly on an exam because I missed learning about "functions." I still have no idea what they are. Try being a girl and learning math. I was literally told by multiple guidance counselors that 'girls aren't good at math' and it was fine to not understand anyway since I'd never need to know more than how to balance a checkbook.
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Aug 30, 2022 20:08
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Bugsy posted:A few more bits of truth news. I think my favorite part is that it's unclear who is on the board (because everyone's already jumped ship from this grift).
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Aug 30, 2022 20:14
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Bugsy posted:A few more bits of truth news. the funniest thing to me is that trump clearly selected a right-wing hosting company because they couldn't dare pull the plug on him for non-payment, and then didn't pay them just can't resist a little more penny-ante scamming of his rubes
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Aug 30, 2022 20:16
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evilweasel posted:the funniest thing to me is that trump clearly selected a right-wing hosting company because they couldn't dare pull the plug on him for non-payment, and then didn't pay them
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Aug 30, 2022 20:21
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FlamingLiberal posted:The one thing you can always count on with Trump is him stiffing people From Trump's perspective it makes perfect sense. Every transaction is a net zero total, the way you get ahead is by screwing over the other guy. If you can maneuver someone into a position where you can not pay them, or settle for less than the market rate after a protracted legal battle, you've come out ahead.
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Aug 30, 2022 20:25
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davecrazy posted:https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1564617652471054338 Shame that Aaron was too lazy to put Orpheus in the Underworld to it as a musical accompaniment when it's sorely needed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSJzz0s0HsA
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Aug 30, 2022 20:25
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Morrow posted:From Trump's perspective it makes perfect sense. Every transaction is a net zero total, the way you get ahead is by screwing over the other guy. If you can maneuver someone into a position where you can not pay them, or settle for less than the market rate after a protracted legal battle, you've come out ahead.
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Aug 30, 2022 20:25
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cr0y posted:Have we figured out if math is good or bad yet
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Aug 30, 2022 20:30
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Humanity was never meant to know the universal language
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Aug 30, 2022 20:33
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Oracle posted:Try being a girl and learning math. I was literally told by multiple guidance counselors that 'girls aren't good at math' and it was fine to not understand anyway since I'd never need to know more than how to balance a checkbook. I must ask: did you wind up good at math? 
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Aug 30, 2022 21:26
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Math is just applied philosophy.
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Aug 30, 2022 21:39
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Gadfly posted:So what answer are we telling people who whine that they had to sacrifice to make payments on their student loans for 20 years to get them paid off? I'm reading a lot of resentment from folks that are just bitter they had to forgo a lot of "leisure" kind of activities, single moms raising kids, or buying houses and stuff. It's bad that they had to spend 20 years paying off those loans, and they should be glad that younger generations don't have to go through that same suffering. Making things better inherently means that young people won't have to face the same suffering that older people did. When it comes to loans, "personal responsibility" goes both ways: every loan comes with a chance that it won't be paid back, and it's the responsibility of the bank to hedge against that risk with reasonable and prudent loan policies. Instead, they lobbied the federal government to subsidize and guarantee those loans, and then went hog wild with grossly irresponsible lending. The student loan crisis reached its current magnitude because schools, banks, and the government all acted incredibly irresponsibly. And those three groups are far more responsible for unreasonable financial decisions than an 18-year-old who's never had to pay rent and has never had a full-time long-term job.
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Aug 30, 2022 21:45
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evilweasel posted:it is worth pointing out that demand for tradespeople is somewhat inelastic (i.e. it doesn't really change that much based on price) so if you create a big new program to train people for trades, you don't wind up with a ton of new people making what skilled tradespeople make now. instead you glut the market and have a bunch of people who don't have skills that can easily be applied elsewhere. Why does this only apply to the "educated"? You don't think builders are going to start companies and employ other builders? For example, if an asphalt guy decides to start a company doing that he needs people in the office, obviously, but he also needs experienced guys to scope jobs and do quotes, as well as cover remedials, do training and onboarding, supply runs and negotiating, he's going to need paving guys and equipment guys and mechanics and once all those positions are filled he's still going to need a bunch of guys to go out and do the asphalt. Same for a plumbing company, or an electrical company, etc. What gives the "highly educated" the ability to fit the market in ways that people in trades don't? I'm guessing you have no idea how much crossover there is. Personal example, I started in logging, before I moved to climbing and general arb work. When the company shut down me and a couple others stayed in the industry before I went into roading and then moved to the power board, one guy went to do building maintenance on skyscrapers, one went into site management and traffic control and one went into heavy machinery at a mine. Suggesting that training people for a specific trade will limit their career flexibility is completely asinine.
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Aug 30, 2022 21:52
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This disconnect will exist as long as the business of school is job training. I agree with all of the professors who think the point of higher education is to give you a broad education but the business that most higher education is selling to people is "you need this poo poo for a job".
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Aug 30, 2022 22:08
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Gumball Gumption posted:This disconnect will exist as long as the business of school is job training. I agree with all of the professors who think the point of higher education is to give you a broad education but the business that most higher education is selling to people is "you need this poo poo for a job". I just think that general ed designed to keep stemlords from becoming Nazis should not become an impediment to people actually becoming career humanities scholars, as happened to me.
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Aug 30, 2022 22:12
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Dick Trauma posted:I must ask: did you wind up good at math? Nope. Though I did get an A when I had to take a remedial college algebra course taught by a woman! (Seriously she was awesome, first time I ever understood some of those concepts. I even applied what I learned to figure out how to scale down a dosage of ibuprofen for my then infant when all we had was the toddler pain reliever!)
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Aug 30, 2022 22:18
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