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Danann posted:my one and only plan is to construct socialism with <nation> characteristics Victoria 3: Socialism with British characteristics.
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Aug 31, 2022 03:12
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Danann posted:my one and only plan is to construct socialism with <nation> characteristics Excited to form a communist paradise as the Papal States
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Aug 31, 2022 03:56
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Rynoto posted:Honestly the most fun in V2 was playing a country as absolutely aggressive and regressive as possible, crushing revolts until there's a couple million communists pop up to overthrow your government. It was one of the better features of V2 where if you gave your people everything they wanted they just became boring liberals and conservatives whereas if you went hardcore PartyLine you got the FunStuff. It's also pretty fun to slowly dole out reforms so that by the end of the game you have the best social democracy on the planet but the conservative party has been in charge the whole time.
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Aug 31, 2022 04:06
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Can I form Monarcho-Communism?
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Aug 31, 2022 04:12
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Horsebanger posted:Can I form Monarcho-Communism? Monarcho-Communism is old news. Have you heard of StashAugustine posted:Excited to form a communist paradise as the Papal States Papo-Communism? Seriously though I am pretty sure Council Republic is incompatible with monarchy or theocracy, though I think you might be able to have, like, worker owned businesses without that.
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Aug 31, 2022 04:59
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papal communism honestly sounds rad as hell
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Aug 31, 2022 05:39
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Communionism
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Aug 31, 2022 05:51
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Gamerofthegame posted:We'll see how this current system works, but I personally kind of predict it'll turn the game kind of like Imperator in the way that everyone starts to feel and play the same, with the fronts removing a sense of tactics and defensive terrain, etc, that prompts your nation building and how you do things. So it'll be more about just your internal country, which everyone runs on the same internal markets with a few fluff buildings and mostly universal resources. Different starting laws and cultural stuff, sure, but in an era about change that's not going to last. I think the luster of the war system will wane within the first play through. Still, we'll see actually touching it, ofc. See you say this, and it's possible that the underlying systems are weak enough that most tags do end up homogenous, but I have no clue how moving little army men around prevents it. If the underlying economic systems are bad then all the EU4 combat would do is add a microtax that could distract you from the game being bad.
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Aug 31, 2022 06:53
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Vagabong posted:See you say this, and it's possible that the underlying systems are weak enough that most tags do end up homogenous, but I have no clue how moving little army men around prevents it. If the underlying economic systems are bad then all the EU4 combat would do is add a microtax that could distract you from the game being bad.
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Aug 31, 2022 07:00
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If you preorder you get remastered versions of the Victoria 2 soundtrack. gently caress I'm going to do it
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Aug 31, 2022 07:42
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Lady Radia posted:papal communism honestly sounds rad as hell The Pope announces a Crusade on Property. At the same time, thousands of miles away, Thomas Nasts' eye begins to twitch involuntarily...
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Aug 31, 2022 07:49
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VostokProgram posted:If you preorder you get remastered versions of the Victoria 2 soundtrack. gently caress I'm going to do it It had better come with ear-shattering construction sounds as well.
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Aug 31, 2022 08:13
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I'm much more worried about indirect control disappearing in inventions and capitalists deciding to build useless stuff than war becoming handshfree.
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Aug 31, 2022 08:14
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I hope the pre-order music blasts out on max volume every time you load up the game.
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Aug 31, 2022 08:34
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ilitarist posted:I'm much more worried about indirect control disappearing in inventions and capitalists deciding to build useless stuff than war becoming handshfree. Please donate to my gofundme for a Clipper Factory
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Aug 31, 2022 08:35
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When you become lassez-faire, you become a slave to the algorithm.
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Aug 31, 2022 08:40
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I know the capitalists were horrible. But totalitarianism being a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural was the point and a grand choice. I'm worried that it will feel like Stellaris, where completely different societies play the same but in a totalitarian society you'll need 20% more policemen to get 20% more production or something. Of course, I'm basing my assumptions on a vague understanding of the game. It just worries me a little.
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Aug 31, 2022 08:50
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One of the worst things about Stellaris on release was that it tried to please everybody and be every game mushed together. Internal politics, economy, pops, building infrastructure, war, ship mechanics, different modes of travel, etc. Whether you want more detailed combat or not, I’m pretty sure Vicky 3 will be a better game because it isn’t trying to wear as many hats.
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Aug 31, 2022 09:19
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I think one thing to keep in mind about the warfare system is that so far the stream only showed off a small nation fighting small wars, with only one general and one admiral to move around. The system as described seems designed for handling larger wars, where you start having to decide which generals to assign where to do what keeping in mind not only which general is right for the role but also where their troops are drawn from, what political effects might result from a general becoming a war hero, which fronts you want to focus on, etc etc. it’s possible that a major Great Power war would give the system much more meat to chew on than the equivalent of Great Britain beating up the Lenape. I’ll also note that the economy seems to tie into war in interesting ways - I was struck by how a small brushfire war nevertheless drove up debt to nearly half of the Dutch credit limit, causing consequences and constraints on their actions for almost the entire rest of the stream. I note also that this seemed somewhat self-inflicted - they opted to promote their general so they could mobilize and deploy the entirety of their army, but they probably could have knocked over Brunei with only half the army for less cost. The war itself may have been straightforward, but the knock-on effects were not and I don’t know if they were actually drawing much real benefit from their conquest by the end of the stream. Lady Radia posted:papal communism honestly sounds rad as hell Taiping Tianguo with Western characteristics.
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Aug 31, 2022 09:22
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I hope for one of these dev streams they run through the US Civil War as a closer look at how the new war system functions. Hopefully without either war breaking out and your painfully constructed armies being ruined or just totally cheesing it and never recruiting any Dixie soldiers in the first place.
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Aug 31, 2022 09:34
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Speaking of, there should be an achievement for being a victorious Taiping Heavenly Kingdom and having independent Deseret in your market. Call it "Prophet Sharing Agreement".
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Aug 31, 2022 09:37
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I cannot believe they got pizza delivered in the middle of the stream haha. As if it wasn't already awkward enough. I'm watching now and it's the classic Paradox mix of charming and frustrating. It's so nice that the devs get to show off their game, but given they are not accomplished streamers I wish they'd come up with a bit more of a plan beforehand on how they were going to do things, because right now they are all over the place and the squabbling is a bit painful. It's fun for those of us who've been following development anyway, but I have a couple of friends who I'm hoping to get hooked on this game and I don't really think this gives the best impression so I'm holding off on sending it to them. Maybe a better format would be to have one dev playing and explaining what they're doing to a non-dev? Rather than two devs trying to explain different things at the same time. But I know how hard it is to do this stuff so congrats to Paradox on showing off the game, it looks great. Will the youtuber crowd will get their hands on the game soon? It will be good to get some slick introductions to the mechanics from those guys.
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Aug 31, 2022 09:40
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Just let one of the many Youtubers who make a living streaming map games do a video. Call it community engagement, you don't even have to pay them.
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Aug 31, 2022 09:41
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Tomn posted:I’ll also note that the economy seems to tie into war in interesting ways - I was struck by how a small brushfire war nevertheless drove up debt to nearly half of the Dutch credit limit, causing consequences and constraints on their actions for almost the entire rest of the stream. I note also that this seemed somewhat self-inflicted - they opted to promote their general so they could mobilize and deploy the entirety of their army, but they probably could have knocked over Brunei with only half the army for less cost. The war itself may have been straightforward, but the knock-on effects were not and I don’t know if they were actually drawing much real benefit from their conquest by the end of the stream. But I think the biggest issue was actually how many construction industries they built, and the fact that they kept them on iron frame buildings for so long when they had to import all their iron. The dev who wasn't Wiz wanted to build a construction industry in every state for the incredibly small bonus to construction speed, and in the process more than doubled the nationwide cost of construction. It wasn't a great investment when they then needed to spend more than half the time turning construction off to balance the budget. Also there were multiple times when they were switching up production methods Wiz had to tell him to pay attention to the warning that there weren't enough resources to run everything on the new production method. And like, I get it. Victora 3 is a game of piling up little bonuses to make your factories better, and it feels great to click a bunch of upgrade buttons, but I do wish someone with a better instinct for balancing the budget was in the driver's seat in future streams. That said, I think mismanaging the economy and then figuring out what they could do to fix it was a pretty good demonstration of the kind of robust economic gameplay we can expect from the game, so I don't think it was actually a bad thing to have someone making all those mistakes in this introductory stream.
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Aug 31, 2022 12:34
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Mantis42 posted:Speaking of, there should be an achievement for being a victorious Taiping Heavenly Kingdom and having independent Deseret in your market. Call it "Prophet Sharing Agreement". 
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Aug 31, 2022 13:21
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Demiurge4 posted:I hope the pre-order music blasts out on max volume every time you load up the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4_xa8C5Jvg
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Aug 31, 2022 15:00
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i managed to find a bunch of the albums they used in Vicky 1 at a library so you bet that's gonna be blasting when I load this up (also falalan because it's not a paradox game without it)
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Aug 31, 2022 15:34
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ilitarist posted:I'm much more worried about indirect control disappearing in inventions and capitalists deciding to build useless stuff than war becoming handshfree. Isn't indirect inventions pretty much replicated by technology spreading automatically without player being able to stop it completely?
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Aug 31, 2022 16:29
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It's different. In Victoria 2 after researching a technology, you get random inventions based on circumstances. This felt like a good compromise. Innovation is driven by circumstances, not by a royal decree about what the academy of sciences should focus on. It also led to a lot of frustration and randomness (a minor who lucked out and invented some art thing gets an absurd amount of prestige) and I understand why would they change their system. We'll see how this one plays.
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Aug 31, 2022 16:38
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Vicky 2 inventions were a neat idea but in practice I was mostly annoyed by the pop-up spam for 1 prestige or whatever.
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Aug 31, 2022 17:12
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There's also the issue where most of the inventions gave little stacking percentage boosts and then you gas warfare, where if the rng is feeling mean you end up losing every battle against any slightly modern nation until defences for it finally pop
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Aug 31, 2022 18:56
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I am highly looking forward to taking one of my ridiculous continent-spanning evil empires of the blood god that I create in CK3 using cheat mods, and watching them crumble to dust once they get converted into this game.
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Aug 31, 2022 19:11
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One thing I noticed in the stream is that production method micro has a large potential to be the new annoying micro. It looks so easy to forget to change production methods, to change too much, and generally it looks like it will suck up a lot of time despite having fairly optimal solutions for each situation. It would be nice to have a little automation there, have an AI you can mostly trust to adjust production methods based on your local resource prices. Do you have enough affordable iron to switch from wood to iron construction, then it does so, otherwise it jumps back down to wood. No other vicky game had this level of granular per-factroy micro management, it's cool in theory when you have a tiny country with 10 buildings, but I can't imagine managing a world spanning empire's exact production methods. Maybe they'll introduce more easy one-click options. Like to convert only the amount you currently have the resources for, or to randomly convert 50% or 25% or so on. Because right now its either all, per state, or per-factory.
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Aug 31, 2022 19:15
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Is there no "change production for everyone applicable" checkbox? Hard to believe.
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Aug 31, 2022 19:21
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Baronjutter posted:One thing I noticed in the stream is that production method micro has a large potential to be the new annoying micro. It looks so easy to forget to change production methods, to change too much, and generally it looks like it will suck up a lot of time despite having fairly optimal solutions for each situation. It would be nice to have a little automation there, have an AI you can mostly trust to adjust production methods based on your local resource prices. Do you have enough affordable iron to switch from wood to iron construction, then it does so, otherwise it jumps back down to wood. I figure if you definitely have enough you can convert all your factories which is already easy, and if you don't definitely have enough you'll want to be micro-ing it. Or else not bothering and letting things be until the raw resources become comfortably available for your whole country. Basically if you don't like the micro, just don't worry about it and switch it on and off for whole industries and you'll be fine, from what I've seen. ilitarist posted:Is there no "change production for everyone applicable" checkbox? Hard to believe.
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Aug 31, 2022 19:25
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In the stream they were really really struggling with the interface too, with wiz constantly having to remind them where to click and what menu things are in. It's quite possible the "micro" for production methods and such isn't as bad as the stream made it seem.
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Aug 31, 2022 19:27
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Eiba posted:There definitely is. The idea of automating changes would just be to squeeze out efficiency a little bit more. I get someone feeling obligated to do that if they're really into optimization, but you really won't ever have to I don't think. Stellaris frustrates me with the need to give out obvious orders. Like any mining or research space facility that can be built should be built. I understand all of the buildings that can be upgraded should be upgraded cause even if you don't have enough people to fill them they raise the productivity of people already there. There are maintenance considerations but I never feel like I'm making a choice there, just cookie clicking. From what I've seen Victoria 3 doesn't have this issue and there's automatic expansion button for industries that you want to expand indefinitely. From what I've seen on the stream production methods are not something you want to upgrade ASAP so there's an interesting choice to when to switch.
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Aug 31, 2022 19:35
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Baronjutter posted:In the stream they were really really struggling with the interface too, with wiz constantly having to remind them where to click and what menu things are in. It's quite possible the "micro" for production methods and such isn't as bad as the stream made it seem. This was apparently because it got reworked relatively recently, so the extra confusion was from knowing how to do things but not where.
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Aug 31, 2022 19:36
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ilitarist posted:From what I've seen on the stream production methods are not something you want to upgrade ASAP so there's an interesting choice to when to switch. Especially if they need things you aren't yet producing or can import reasonably, ie unlocking intensive farming but you haven't spun up chemical plants to produce fertilizer yet.
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Aug 31, 2022 19:36
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I do love how the global economy evolves as new production technology requires new resources no one yet produces because there was no previous demand. You see this naturally evolving complexity as the global industrial base grows and advances with previous resources building upon the latest development.
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Aug 31, 2022 19:53
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