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slurm posted:DOJ won't touch him once he declares an intent to run, right? That's the end of investigations etc. The memo that Garland reiterated is "no new investigations of candidates without the AG's approval." Importantly, 1. There is already an investigation open 2. Garland approved that investigation
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Aug 31, 2022 17:35
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slurm posted:DOJ won't touch him once he declares an intent to run, right? That's the end of investigations etc. And set the precedent for “one weird trick” to avoid doj prosecution?
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Aug 31, 2022 17:35
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slurm posted:DOJ won't touch him once he declares an intent to run, right? That's the end of investigations etc. When Garland "renewed" the Barr memo, it said any investigation would need signoff from him. He's already approved this one. Running for President will not be a magic shield.
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Aug 31, 2022 17:40
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DeathSandwich posted:Regarding the last quote: How do the feds not also go after the lawyers as co-conspirator at that point? Assuming the attorneys knew the contents of the containers they would actively be aiding and abetting the crime. The implication of the wording is that several of Trumps lawyers may have committed Obstruction of Justice with these sworn statements and dishonest court filings.
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Aug 31, 2022 17:41
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ElegantFugue posted:I believe that turned out to be legalese for specifically "cannot be appointed to public office" while excluding any specific limitation on "can be elected to public office," which it turns out is an important difference. Also the idea that a federal law could add any limitations to who can be president, beyond what the Constitution already defines, is incredibly unlikely to survive the slightest court challenge.
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Aug 31, 2022 17:45
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slurm posted:DOJ won't touch him once he declares an intent to run, right? That's the end of investigations etc. garland addressed this in detail previously https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pV1nIICFxw&t=222s
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Aug 31, 2022 17:53
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Class3KillStorm posted:Doesn't at least one of the Federal laws that Trump is being accused of breaking include a penalty of "may be prevented from holding public office" (or something to that effect)? I remember there being someone online discussion videos around that being a potential consequence a few weeks ago. If that's the case, and if this goes to trial and if he gets found guilty (both of those being big "ifs" right now, I'll grant), couldn't the judge slap him with a writ or whatever that says "The plaintiff may never again hold any public office in the United States" as part of the sentencing or whatever? The presidency is not included in that prohibition, because Congress does not have the authority to pass an ordinary law restricting people from being president. The list of things that make someone ineligible to be president is written directly into the Constitution, so modifying that list requires a Constitutional amendment too. slurm posted:DOJ won't touch him once he declares an intent to run, right? That's the end of investigations etc. No? There's not really any reason to think that at this point. If the DOJ was going to consider a presidential candidate untouchable, they wouldn't have bothered with this in the first place, because Trump was obviously going to run again in 2024.
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Aug 31, 2022 17:53
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-Blackadder- posted:Keep in mind that all the big Republican donors made a beeline from Trump to DeSantis months ago and DeSantis is now on track to raise more money than any gubernatorial candidate in history. Call me crazy, but Desantis running and winning would probably be worse than Trump. Dude is an out and out homicidal monster and revels in it, trying to genocide LGBT people via denying them healthcare under christian nationalism/extremism and basically wanting to be the Viktor Orban of America. He'd absolutely deny LGBT work protections, purge them from public positions, and deny them medicaid support for transitioning at the very least. Since medicaid support is usually used as a guideline for private insurance coverage he'd go whole hog on trying to deny them healthcare overall on a national level as well through the medicaid denial. Likewise, he doesn't hesitate to break the law and fire people for not following blatantly illegal orders, and would probably try a more socially acceptable soft coup all of his own via replacing the government via the Schedule F soft coup plan Trump and the extremist part of the GOP cooked up and never managed to get into play. Trump by contrast is someone even the GOP hates. Even if they fall behind him I have to wonder how much practical support he would even get in office. Archonex fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Aug 31, 2022 |
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Aug 31, 2022 18:15
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Archonex posted:Call me crazy, but Desantis running and winning would probably be worse than Trump. Dude is an out and out homicidal monster and revels in it, trying to genocide LGBT people via denying them healthcare under christian nationalism/extremism and basically wanting to be the Viktor Orban of America. He'd absolutely deny LGBT work protections, purge them from public positions, and deny them medicaid support for transitioning at the very least. Since medicaid support is usually used as a guideline for private insurance coverage he'd go whole hog on trying to deny them healthcare overall on a national level as well through the medicaid denial. yeah, but he also has way way less charisma then trump and probably won't bring over the fence sitters and enough moderates like trump did in 2016. dudes to much of an open mean dickhead and he doesnt have the 80s dickhead charm that trump sorta had. it will also be harder if trumps also trying to run and also biden is still doing pretty good popular poo poo.
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Aug 31, 2022 18:29
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah, but he also has way way less charisma then trump and probably won't bring over the fence sitters and enough moderates like trump did in 2016. dudes to much of an open mean dickhead and he doesnt have the 80s dickhead charm that trump sorta had. it will also be harder if trumps also trying to run and also biden is still doing pretty good popular poo poo. I mean, Trump was an openly mean dickhead and the christian extremists loved him for it. They're in politics to hurt minorities and see them exterminated by the state. It's literally what they lobby on and have their think tanks design policies around.
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Aug 31, 2022 18:32
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah, but he also has way way less charisma then trump and probably won't bring over the fence sitters and enough moderates like trump did in 2016. dudes to much of an open mean dickhead and he doesnt have the 80s dickhead charm that trump sorta had. it will also be harder if trumps also trying to run and also biden is still doing pretty good popular poo poo. Not saying he can't win, but he feels more like the new Scott Walker than the new Trump and draws the same appeal, just with the MAGA era GOP.
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Aug 31, 2022 18:32
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Killer robot posted:Not saying he can't win, but he feels more like the new Scott Walker than the new Trump and draws the same appeal, just with the MAGA era GOP. He's also gone all in on stealing the vote come the next election. He's busily fabricating claims of a voter fraud epidemic to justify future attempts at him trying to steal the next presidential election by rigging the vote so that there is an alternative set of electors that will just give the state to him if he runs. Dude is absolutely a genocidal threat to trans people and also a threat to the safety and future freedom of the people of the country as a whole. Archonex fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Aug 31, 2022 |
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Aug 31, 2022 18:36
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DeSantis winning will also mean that public education will be on the chopping block. He’s notoriously anti-education and pro-corporation.
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Aug 31, 2022 18:42
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Desantis was grown in a lab to appeal to the kind of online Republican commentator who supports Trump but doesn’t want him to run again because they think he'll lose. Those people get a lot of credence from savvy nonpartisan POLITICO Writers but I'm not sure they actually reflect Republican voters (for one thing, the voters think Trump will win if he runs again). Also Desantis is clearly running which is an edge this early on. Not that Desantis can't win, but the campaign hasn't started and a lot of analysts are pushing for him out of their own interests.
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Aug 31, 2022 19:20
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Archonex posted:I mean, Trump was an openly mean dickhead and the christian extremists loved him for it. They're in politics to hurt minorities and see them exterminated by the state. It's literally what they lobby on and have their think tanks design policies around. Yeah, chuds will vote for that in a heartbeat, others won’t. Killer robot posted:Not saying he can't win, but he feels more like the new Scott Walker than the new Trump and draws the same appeal, just with the MAGA era GOP. James Garfield posted:Desantis was grown in a lab to appeal to the kind of online Republican commentator who supports Trump but doesn’t want him to run again because they think he'll lose. Those people get a lot of credence from savvy nonpartisan POLITICO Writers but I'm not sure they actually reflect Republican voters (for one thing, the voters think Trump will win if he runs again). Also Desantis is clearly running which is an edge this early on.
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Aug 31, 2022 19:35
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Deteriorata posted:Why? There's no reason they have to. Trump may think they will stop, but the DoJ has made no claims to that effect. They’ve explicitly said they’re going to pursue justice irregardless.
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Aug 31, 2022 21:10
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slurm posted:DOJ won't touch him once he declares an intent to run, right? That's the end of investigations etc. It's also not clear what the doj will do after the election. They could certainly start new investigations of elected officials at that time, or they could decide that the people electing some chuffnugget means they'll never get a prosecution because of jury weighting. It's... nice of the doj to declare such a hiatus, but that's also not mandated in law. If a candidate starts flagrantly violating federal laws tomorrow, then Garland can certainly approve a new investigation.
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Aug 31, 2022 22:04
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If they do intend to wait until after the midterms, what would be awesome would be if Dems held the House, gained Senate seats for a real non-Manchinema majority, and then two days later the DOJ indicted Trump on espionage and obstruction. Can you even IMAGINE watching all the chud heads going POP POP POP (can’t seem to find the head exploding emoji)
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Aug 31, 2022 22:19
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MrMojok posted:If they do intend to wait until after the midterms, what would be awesome would be if Dems held the House, gained Senate seats for a real non-Manchinema majority, and then two days later the DOJ indicted Trump on espionage and obstruction.  I've never raised children, but a friend pointed out the remarkable similarities of stuffing secret documents in magazines and basically every nook and cranny of the entire resort, in comparison to kids and toddlers. Fear, shame, attention getting, claiming ownership, playing a game... Anything that's the exact opposite of the behavioral patterns expected of a past leader of a superpower republic. Can they even get 45 in court without immediately finding him in contempt for all the whining and shouting? They basically need to cart him in there like H Lector with a muzzle. (Okay I'm bring perhaps too cruel, since I rarely watched any of his broadcasts.)
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Aug 31, 2022 22:57
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I can't imagine them being able to seat a usable jury for him, but I'm just some guy without any legal experience, so maybe there are ways to solve that puzzle.
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Aug 31, 2022 23:11
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They can hold the trial in DC and sourcing a jury there is probably about as likely a place as any to put together a decent one
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Aug 31, 2022 23:17
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He will also likely be on trial for multiple crimes in multiple courtrooms in front of different juries. If one jury hangs, retry it and meanwhile the next one might not.
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Aug 31, 2022 23:20
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raminasi posted:I can't imagine them being able to seat a usable jury for him, but I'm just some guy without any legal experience, so maybe there are ways to solve that puzzle. That's correct. Protocols do exist for infamous cases, in which you gotta pick a jury because no change of venue is appropriate. This is a bad example but it's the first one that comes to mind: seating a jury for OJ.
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Aug 31, 2022 23:24
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on a state level, fulton county in georgia is going to have no problems putting together a jury
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Aug 31, 2022 23:24
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DeSantis absolutely can win in 2024.
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Aug 31, 2022 23:37
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God he is so loving stupid. "I DECLASSIFIED THE DOCUMENTS THAT THE FBI PLANTED AND ALSO THEY WERE IN CARTONS AND NOT BOXES I KNOW BECAUSE I HAD THEM BUT ALSO THE FBI PLANTED THEM AND I DIDNT HAVE THEM. "
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Sep 1, 2022 00:12
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I think the “DeSantis is weak, actually” posts are 100% purestrain cope and all hinge on Republicans willing to choose a vacuum than someone trying to be parallel to Trump and Democrats willing to be as energized to opposing him as they are for Trump.
Automata 10 Pack fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 01:22
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Have any actual lawyers weighed in on whether it was really an admission of guilt that Trump said the documents were in boxes?
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Sep 1, 2022 01:40
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Charliegrs posted:Have any actual lawyers weighed in on whether it was really an admission of guilt that Trump said the documents were in boxes? How the hell is it not an admission of guilt? He was supposed to act surprised and shocked that not all the documents were turned over, and that his underlings must have messed up. Hes instead admitting he knew he had them.
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Sep 1, 2022 01:47
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Rigel posted:How the hell is it not an admission of guilt? He was supposed to act surprised and shocked that not all the documents were turned over, and that his underlings must have messed up. Hes instead admitting he knew he had them. Because on a legal level not everything is always what it seems to us non lawyers. And defense lawyers have ways of arguing what looks like straight up admissions of guilt into something completely benign. So, I'm interested to see what a real lawyers take would be on Trump's admission of guilt to see if, on a legal level, he really did screw himself over or it can easily be argued that it wasn't an admission of guilt and that non lawyer people are blowing it out of proportion.
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Sep 1, 2022 02:01
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Charliegrs posted:Have any actual lawyers weighed in on whether it was really an admission of guilt that Trump said the documents were in boxes? His passports were mixed in with the classified documents. How does your passport get mixed in with documents you don’t have or didn’t know were there? It’s kind of hard to miss the yellow and red cover folders.
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Sep 1, 2022 02:04
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*competent* lawyers can argue $X They keep stepping in rakes and aren't going to be able to make this situation better. The smartest thing they could do is sit still in a dark closet somewhere. The defense team is actively making the legal situation worse.
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Sep 1, 2022 02:16
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Charliegrs posted:Have any actual lawyers weighed in on whether it was really an admission of guilt that Trump said the documents were in boxes? The only thing that's unquestionably an admission of guilt is a guilty plea. Anything else can be explained away by a sufficiently savvy defense lawyer with a client who's sufficiently charismatic and sufficiently cooperative. It's extremely unlikely that Trump is going to totally destroy his case in a single tweet. If tweets end up mattering at all, it'll be through the lawyers sorting through hundreds of tweets over a series of weeks or months to create evidence of trends and inconsistencies. But in the end, I don't think anything he posts on Truth Social is going to hurt him as much as the clear video evidence that he tried to deceive the government. The government already knows that Trump still had the documents, and they wouldn't be moving forward unless they had sufficient leads on evidence that Trump personally knew about still having the documents. Trump saying it is funny because it contradicts his own attempts to claim it's a witchhunt on social media, but that's just embarrassing, it doesn't have a real impact on the court cases.
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Sep 1, 2022 02:38
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Trump is none of those but he's rich and white and an ex president so, same difference.
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Sep 1, 2022 02:47
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BiggerBoat posted:DeSantis absolutely can win in 2024. No, he is Jen Bush 2.0 Edit: JEB!
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Sep 1, 2022 03:03
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https://mobile.twitter.com/Acyn/status/1565154301101703175 Trump's crack team of lawyers found a new defense
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Sep 1, 2022 03:12
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BiggerBoat posted:DeSantis absolutely can win in 2024. I don't have a horse in this fight and personally think it's waaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to try and weigh odds of success 2 years out for elections, but my dude, you gotta acknowledge that you living in one of the most blood-red parts of Florida might give you an ever so slightly biased sample size when it comes to judging DeSantis's chances in a national race. Edit : Wait, Trump has responded to the DoJ's motion from yesterday and y'all haven't even said anything???? What are you even doing. This is loving hilarious and awful. Link : https://openargs.com/wp-content/uploads/2022.08.31-Trump-reply.pdf Edit 2 : the reply goes out of its way to not call Biden "the president" and instead says "chief executive" loving lmao Xiahou Dun fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 03:13
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Don asking the important questions on Truth
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Sep 1, 2022 03:22
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Xiahou Dun posted:I don't have a horse in this fight and personally think it's waaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to try and weigh odds of success 2 years out for elections, but my dude, you gotta acknowledge that you living in one of the most blood-red parts of Florida might give you an ever so slightly biased sample size when it comes to judging DeSantis's chances in a national race. I mean, strictly speaking, DeSantis absolutely can win if he runs. No idea what the chances are, but he'll get a non-zero amount of the vote just for having an R next to his name. It's more a question of how toxic he would be to the non-Floridians when he gets to the national stage.
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Sep 1, 2022 03:23
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Xiahou Dun posted:I don't have a horse in this fight and personally think it's waaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to try and weigh odds of success 2 years out for elections, but my dude, you gotta acknowledge that you living in one of the most blood-red parts of Florida might give you an ever so slightly biased sample size when it comes to judging DeSantis's chances in a national race. This is amazing. They are asserting that the fact that the records are ‘presidential records’ completely overcomes any notion of national secrets. Combined with that they use president to refer to Trump in the present tense and it’s like they are insisting that Trump is the president and so has a right to presidential records.
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Sep 1, 2022 03:49
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