|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Is there a system which does not require some form of police or law enforcement? Policing is a recent thing in the history of civilization. A society without the extreme inequality we have would not have anywhere near the crime we do in the first place. quote:See, "tear down capitalism" is a step needed before "abolish the police". I do have to ask, though, is there a system of government which does NOT try to maintain the status quo which that government currently exists under? All I can think of is anarchy, which may sound great to some people, right up until they're the ones which end up under the burning bus.
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 00:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 19:12 |
|
|
evilweasel posted:in addition to not getting paid, this is why no lawyers will work for trump: I mean not really. He is saying they brought cartons and spread the contents around on the floor. Not that they were in cartons while in his possession.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 00:05
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:They're both slogans and neither are strategies. Strategies consist of more than three words. Defunding the police is absolutely a strategy, as is abolition. The problem is the intractable instiutional racism and brutality in American policing. The solution is to either get rid of them, and/or defund them. That's a strategy. Now you're looking for how we get there. Lets look at Los Angeles again! 1) Elect a reform-minded sheriff. Result: Ooops he's a fascist who literally reversed consequences for bad cops that everybody agrees were bad cops 2) Pass Measure J, mandating funding for non-carceral strategies. Result: It's basaically stalled as the city slow-rolls it in perpetuity. 3) Elect a reformist DA(Gascon). Result: Opposed at every level of government and multiple recall attempts. Police and deputies are openly in contempt. 4) $150mm reduction in police budget Result: It's back and bigger than it was quote:I'm not going to waste both our times by proposing steps I think would work. I don't have enough knowledge to give an informed answer. My question is why you think some kind of instant mass abolishment of the police would both be possible and would have a positive effect? Ah, you're not actually informed on this subject, but you're happy to criticize other people. Neat!
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 00:12
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/AP/status/1565131880072085505 Sarah Palin just ate poo poo in Alaska. Dems pick up one new house seat AND Alaska sends the first Native American to Congress 
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 01:20
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:https://twitter.com/AP/status/1565131880072085505 It wound up not actually being super close: https://twitter.com/Redistrict/status/1565130008187863040?s=20&t=OgACOCjgoiMaO5mNX2TWjw there will be another election in november with the same three candidates, plus a libertarian. in theory, there's no reason the result should be different. in practice: if palin voters strategically switch to the more palatable republican, he probably gets elected in november - it's a quirk of IRV that he lost (the spoiler effect is not entirely eliminated in IRV and Palin basically acted as a spoiler)
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 01:22
|
|
|
cr0y posted:I mean not really. He is saying they brought cartons and spread the contents around on the floor. Not that they were in cartons while in his possession. i am sure that his lawyers are going to try to coach him to repeat that like a trained parrot, when they realize that interpretation in a week or two, but it's not the logical interpretation of what he wrote. he's saying he didn't dump them on the floor like a slob, he had them all in cartons properly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 01:24
|
|
|
nine-gear crow posted:https://twitter.com/AP/status/1565131880072085505 To be fair, this is partially the result of the jungle primary and two Republicans running. There's going to be a lot of pressure for Begich to drop out or for people to more strategically vote with their second choice in the ranked vote system. Peltola only got 39% of the first round vote and Palin has a better shot at the general in November (she was only down by about 3 points after the ranked choice kicked in and it is likely that Alaska's midterm electorate will be redder). If Palin goes down twice, then that will be hilarious. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Sep 1, 2022 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 01:25
|
|
|
This is why Republicans are scared shitless of RCV.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 01:27
|
|
|
OK this is a very bizarre excerpt from that articlequote:She will be the first Democrat to hold the seat since the late U.S. Rep. Nick Begich, who was seeking reelection in 1972 when his plane disappeared. Begich was later declared dead and Young in 1973 was elected to the seat.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 01:31
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:To be fair, this is partially the result of the jungle primary and two Republicans running. There's going to be a lot of pressure for Begich to drop out or for people to more strategically vote with their second choice in the ranked vote system. Peltola only got 39% of the first round vote and Palin has a better shot at the general in November (she was only down by about 3 points after the ranked choice kicked in and it is likely that Alaska's midterm electorate will be redder). If Palin goes down twice, then that will be hilarious. the correct thing is for palin to drop out. IRV simulates what happens if Begich drops out - he got knocked out and then his voters reallocated. the end result is, representative Peltola. him dropping out before the election probably doesn't change that - certainly not definitively change that. however, palin voters almost certainly broke nearly entirely for Begich (they're the hard-core republican voters) so if you knock palin out first, Begich almost certainly wins. but all you need is to pursuade enough palin first-balloters to rank begich first so that the final two is begich/pelota (palin gets knocked out as the third-place finisher) and begich probably wins
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 01:33
|
|
|
evilweasel posted:the correct thing is for palin to drop out. IRV simulates what happens if Begich drops out - he got knocked out and then his voters reallocated. the end result is, representative Peltola. him dropping out before the election probably doesn't change that - certainly not definitively change that. That is the likely the correct thing from the completely rational mathematics point of view. But, nobody in Alaska Republican politics is going to pressure Palin to endorse Begich who didn't already hate her. And anybody who was maybe legitimately on the fence isn't going to come out and say the Republican who got more votes should drop out and endorse the Republican who got fewer votes. Plus, a larger chunk of Palin's voters are the people who would absolutely flip poo poo about a move like that (and they wouldn't be entirely wrong). Palin just needs about 3% more of the first round votes or the second choice votes. There's a good chance she can get that in November.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 01:40
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That is the likely the correct thing from the completely rational mathematics point of view. But, nobody in Alaska Republican politics is going to pressure Palin to endorse Begich who didn't already hate her. And anybody who was maybe legitimately on the fence isn't going to come out and say the Republican who got more votes should drop out and endorse the Republican who got fewer votes. Plus, a larger chunk of Palin's voters are the people who would absolutely flip poo poo about a move like that (and they wouldn't be entirely wrong). Palin just needs about 3% more of the first round votes or the second choice votes. There's a good chance she can get that in November. well you certainly weren't wrong about Palin's reaction https://twitter.com/RebeccaPalsha/status/1565132891289681925?s=20&t=OgACOCjgoiMaO5mNX2TWjw
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 01:43
|
|
|
Discendo Vox posted:The language is different so it's not completely canned; what this likely means is a conservative entity (maybe Leandra's employer, maybe some other one, maybe, since she's a true believer who has some political operations background, herself) is offering her up to outlets as someone offering the contra position on the matter. Yeah, I figured as much. I thought it stuck out because WaPo framed the article as though they were talking to ordinary borrowers, but it seems likely that they got her name through political/media connections while explicitly searching for a "conservative with student debt who opposes the forgiveness" take for their article. I'm not saying it's a canned quote, I'm sure Leandra is a real person who really feels that way. I'm highlighting the fact that WaPo wanted to represent the "contra position", to the point of actively seeking out political operatives from the opposing party. They or may not have undermined that somewhat by noting her current job, but not enough to counteract the fact that they platformed her claims and repeated them uncritically. Rather than that, it seems like backroom discord to me: perhaps a disgruntled writer having her quotes pushed on them by editorial mandate? Discendo Vox posted:The article is not a focus group or a survey. Like many such articles on many subjects, the point is to give a range of different opinions on a common subject by people- in this case, people with the common trait of past student debt. The goal is not to set up a debate or present both sides, or to measure the amount of support for each side- it is to provide several different people, with different, explicitly stated backgrounds, stating different positions. Maybe Republicans believe what they say, maybe they don't. But regardless, a paid political operative for one party has extremely obvious incentives to slam the other party's major new political moves and policies, especially when the next election is just over two months away. This is why I called attention to her being in multiple articles in the first place: whether or not her opinion is real, she is actively working to get it magnified by shopping it out to as many mass-media outlets as possible, and likely has assistance in that matter. If her opinion didn't line up with the party line, she wouldn't be getting that assistance, and it's unlikely that any outlets would be interested in her take anyway. They know exactly what to expect when asking a Republican fundraiser and media figure for their opinion on a Biden policy...which means that they asked her because they wanted to hear that opinion. And providing a range of different opinions, by itself, doesn't mean much. There's tons of opinions out there! If the Washington Post wanted some really diverse opinions, they could have grabbed someone who thinks college should be mandatory, and then put them up against someone who thinks college is a liberal brainwashing program and should be abolished. Hell, why stop there? Why not ask the flat-Earthers or the lizard man conspiracy theorists what they think of college debt forgiveness? I'm sure we'd get some real diverse opinions that way! This is the classic opinion column curse: when the paper becomes concerned with providing a range of opinions, rather than providing high-quality information or getting a sense of where people in general stand, then that's really just the paper picking and choosing which opinions they feel deserve to be platformed. Doesn't mean they necessarily agree with all of the opinions they print...but it does mean that they think those opinions are especially worth showing to the readers. To reframe it in different terms, they're engaging in setting the Overton Window. They're picking and choosing which opinions their readers should hear, and which ones they shouldn't. They'll hedge it as they like, but they're implicitly setting the boundaries of what they consider acceptable discourse.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 02:24
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I would honestly like to know what a practical alternative to "fix the training" looks like. If I were in charge of the world, I'd do something more like the second one. Current police have a bunch of not-all-that-related-to-each-other functions that are grouped into one organization for historical reasons. I think breaking them apart would reduce abuse and is something that you could implement piecemeal by municipality. Off the top of my head, things that police currently do that should be broken apart: - Employ violence on behalf of the state. Stuff like arresting people, responding to 911 calls for things like "Guy brandishing a knife in the street" or domestic violence. I don't think you can actually get rid of that function (I don't think there has ever been a society without it), but you can silo it off and make it as small as possible. - Traffic control & enforcement. Somebody who spends their day writing speeding tickets or directing traffic around stalled cars doesn't need to have a gun or be trained to use force. Some cities already separate some of this from general policing where parking tickets are done by unarmed non-cops. - Investigating and prosecuting crimes, including crimes by the state violence people. There's no real overlap between "How to Apply State Sanctioned Violence" skills and "Investigate/Prosecute Crime" skills. If they're an entirely separate organization from State Sanctioned Violence, there would also likely be less rear end covering. Internal Affairs as a department of the police that investigates the police doesn't work. You want the people investigating & prosecuting police abuse to not have ever been police themselves and not see police as their coworkers who get the benefit of the doubt Foxfire_ fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Sep 1, 2022 |
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 02:48
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:They're both slogans and neither are strategies. Strategies consist of more than three words. I think you're onto something with "how do we get there from here". I also think your points are a bit stuck in a certain "preserving our way of life" trap. I don't want to accuse you of not being able to imagine existence without police, or being personally dependant on that reality... but your argument seems to fall somewhere within that. You don't have to, like ideaologically, "believe in anarchism" to know that human constructs of order and society are just things that exist because we choose to believe in and enforce them. One could argue most people don't want to fall completely into chaotic survival, I'd agree! But history shows that societies nations and systems do fail, and chaotic survival is a "truer" more powerful reality than what we've built. There are forces domestic and foreign that would endeavor to pull down our (USA) systems, or even the worldwide orders of power and organization. There are arguments based both in morality and science that our systems should or will fail. "Abolish the police" being a bridge too far really just brings into question whether the entire structure of our nation/world is something that should or needs to be preserved.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 02:48
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:That is the likely the correct thing from the completely rational mathematics point of view. But, nobody in Alaska Republican politics is going to pressure Palin to endorse Begich who didn't already hate her. And anybody who was maybe legitimately on the fence isn't going to come out and say the Republican who got more votes should drop out and endorse the Republican who got fewer votes. Plus, a larger chunk of Palin's voters are the people who would absolutely flip poo poo about a move like that (and they wouldn't be entirely wrong). Palin just needs about 3% more of the first round votes or the second choice votes. There's a good chance she can get that in November. Would the libertarian pick up a percentage of Begich voters?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 03:35
|
|
|
The cries of 'What about the people anarchy throws under the bus' ring pretty hollow since those are exactly the people who the police are already there to actively persecute, brutalise and murder. If the ex-police might be dangerous, then arrest them. Use all those terrorism laws. March them straight from the stations into the prisons. Bring in the Army, they'll love doing it. They know cops were never their friends.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 03:36
|
|
|
So given how the judge presiding over Trump’s special master request is a Federalist Society goon he appointed, is Trump likely to get one? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/31/us/politics/trump-justice-department-special-master.html
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 03:41
|
|
|
Eric Cantonese posted:So given how the judge presiding over Trump’s special master request is a Federalist Society goon he appointed, is Trump likely to get one? Probably a coin flip. Trump's judges have had a weird streak of telling him to eat poo poo as often as they go "Anything for Daddy!"
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 03:48
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:OK this is a very bizarre excerpt from that article This is clearly one of those circumstances where someone who's killable but otherwise doesn't age has to disappear every few decades and then reappear as their own offspring or nephew or whatever to throw off suspicion.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 04:24
|
|
|
Eric Cantonese posted:So given how the judge presiding over Trump’s special master request is a Federalist Society goon he appointed, is Trump likely to get one?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 04:51
|
|
|
Eric Cantonese posted:So given how the judge presiding over Trump’s special master request is a Federalist Society goon he appointed, is Trump likely to get one? One of the problems is they'd have to find a special master that has the proper clearances to actually see the stuff Trump hid away. The request is still so badly written and with stupid logic that I don't think any judge is going to grant it but it would lead to the possibility of Special Master Barack Obama.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 04:51
|
|
|
How are special masters chosen? The judge?
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 05:10
|
|
|
Ghost Leviathan posted:The cries of 'What about the people anarchy throws under the bus' ring pretty hollow since those are exactly the people who the police are already there to actively persecute, brutalise and murder.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 05:13
|
|
|
Youth Decay posted:One of the problems is they'd have to find a special master that has the proper clearances to actually see the stuff Trump hid away. The request is still so badly written and with stupid logic that I don't think any judge is going to grant it but it would lead to the possibility of Special Master Barack Obama. Oh my God, that would be amazing!
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 10:09
|
|
|
That SC lawmaker that made the news last week for regretting his abortion stance was lying, to the surprise of no one. it all lies all the way down. https://twitter.com/LEBassett/status/1565055298234380289 I really don't think they realize how much of a third rail they're touching here, given the results of the special elections that have already happened the last few months their voter suppression/gerrymandering plans are going to be seriously put to the test this fall.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 11:56
|
|
|
One awesome thing that happened in 2018 was the Library of Congress gaining the mandate to publish Congressional Research Service work product online, for free. For those unfamiliar, CRS is "nonpartisan shared staff to Congressional committees and members" -- in essence, a publicly funded thinktank. If this sounds dreadfully boring and irrelevant to you, then you understand why only absolute nerds like me got excited over this. With that said, it has tremendous potential as a resource to level the electoral playing field against incumbents (by allowing more challengers to engage in constituent service) and I really wish current progressive members would better serve that end by "commissioning" reports that can serve as a guide for campaigns who may not yet have the sort of dedicated, experienced policy staff that many incumbents do. An example of what is out there, here is the recently completed Metaverse 101 For Boomers: https://mobile.twitter.com/joejerome/status/1565088144088760320 Also, shoutout to this absolute legend mentioned in the comments of the Library of Congress' announcement of the website linked above: quote:This is wise of Congress and the LOC. I vividly recall, 40+ years ago working in a congressional office in which the legislative assistant commissioned a long paper from the (then) LRS, which he then submitted as his masters thesis at either GW or AU, then spun into fancier government jobs. I was appalled but too young to speak up. Perhaps abuses like that will now end. That young legislative assistant's name? Albert Einstein.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 12:52
|
|
|
Bellmaker posted:That SC lawmaker that made the news last week for regretting his abortion stance was lying, to the surprise of no one. it all lies all the way down. Or they don't see that as an actual risk. They've spent years building more than just those methods of seizing power. Further, if they don't win with the quiet, easy options outright violence is no longer off the table.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 12:54
|
|
|
bird food bathtub posted:Or they don't see that as an actual risk. They've spent years building more than just those methods of seizing power. Further, if they don't win with the quiet, easy options outright violence is no longer off the table. True. I think the fundamental GOP strategy of giving their base what they clamor for has by and large been successful, even if they're somewhat dealing with the intrusion and rise of the crazy people actually winning office and taking center stage. It's not half the country (yet) that are irredeemable monstrous assholes but it's a rock solid, unmovable, dug in 30% or 35% at a minimum and a large portion of the voters they've run off is somewhat offset by the gerrymandering and voting restrictions. To elaborate, take something like CPAC, which represents the far right extreme of the GOP base. It might be somewhat fringe but it's also troublingly mainstream and there's really no left wing equivalent that I can think of. Nor the Mike Lindell poo poo, Newsmax, Qanon, etc. It's a considerable amount of people when you think about it - or at least more than I'm comfortable looking at since all of them should be laughed out of the room - and doing mean things for a voting bloc of mean people who's only goal is to keep being more mean has some advantages for the Republicn party I think.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 13:19
|
|
|
This seems like the first "official" confirmation that remote learning has been a disaster for many kids. The declines were among just about every race, ethnic, geographic, and income demographic, but was worse among low income students and already low performing students. https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1565281771603873792 quote:The Pandemic Erased Two Decades of Progress in Math and Reading
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 14:14
|
|
|
I wonder if anyone will think to try funding schools and paying teachers decent wages.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 14:17
|
|
|
Tuxedo Gin posted:I wonder if anyone will think to try funding schools and paying teachers decent wages. Huh. Not sure about that concept. Let me ask my Aunt Nimby what she thinks about that...
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 14:17
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:This seems like the first "official" confirmation that remote learning has been a disaster for many kids. The declines were among just about every race, ethnic, geographic, and income demographic, but was worse among low income students and already low performing students. My wife tendered her resignation to the school she's at just last week; her 5th grade students are so far behind that they are essentially only able to perform 3rd grade level math with confidence, she's loaded up with 32 kids (teaching 4th and 5th grade math and science!), the school can't/won't hire an aid or an intervention specialist, and that swollen gently caress piece of poo poo Desantis let schools start putting cameras in classrooms
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 14:18
|
|
|
Tuxedo Gin posted:I wonder if anyone will think to try funding schools and paying teachers decent wages. To be fair, I don't think that would have helped much in this specific scenario since the loss occurred in just about every group and schools were closed for most of the time. School funding is also a tricky issue because some schools are underfunded, but the U.S. also spends more per student than the average OECD country by a large margin. Luxembourg and Norway are the only countries that spend more per student. So, it isn't as simple as they are short on cash.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 14:24
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:To be fair, I don't think that would have helped much in this specific scenario since the loss occurred in just about every group and schools were closed for most of the time. Schools should have spent a month rushing teachers through online education courses. I trained in some as part of my Master's and I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes required for many state's credentials going forward. It is a TOTALLY different skillset from face-to-face classroom education. And yeah, schools aren't "short on cash", they're just mostly short on cash that can be used for programs, supplies, and teachers (because it all goes to admin and extremely expensive grift contracts).
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 14:32
|
|
|
cat botherer posted:Policing is a recent thing in the history of civilization. A society without the extreme inequality we have would not have anywhere near the crime we do in the first place. Let's go back to the bygone days where outsiders to the community were shunned and barely able to function in society, and any groups of outsiders (Roma) were beaten
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 14:32
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Let's go back to the bygone days where outsiders to the community were shunned and barely able to function in society, and any groups of outsiders (Roma) were beaten
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 14:33
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Let's go back to the bygone days where outsiders to the community were shunned and barely able to function in society, and any groups of outsiders (Roma) were beaten I mean you do know that anti migrant, minority and roma violence are still conducted now. Just a lot of it is by the police or not investigated by the police.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 14:35
|
|
|
NJ banned single-use paper and plastic bags in stores but "forgot" to make an exception for online delivery orders or to require stores to take them back, so now people are accruing dozens upon dozens of reusable bags and have no idea what to do with them. I presume a Menendez owns the company that makes them or something because it's hard for me to believe that this incredibly obvious consequence was as unforeseeable as is claimed by some.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 14:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 19:12 |
|
|
eXXon posted:NJ banned single-use paper and plastic bags in stores but "forgot" to make an exception for online delivery orders or to require stores to take them back, so now people are accruing dozens upon dozens of reusable bags and have no idea what to do with them. Can you post the article or something because I'm not quite grasping what's going on.
|
|
#
?
Sep 1, 2022 14:54
|
|
