USCE Summer 2022: You can't change the crisis settings.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE Summer 2022: You can't change the crisis settings.

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Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

It appears that the delivery companies are going full malicious compliance.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 14:55

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# ? May 25, 2024 20:23

Mooseontheloose: May 13, 2003

Paracaidas posted:

One awesome thing that happened in 2018 was the Library of Congress gaining the mandate to publish Congressional Research Service work product online, for free.

For those unfamiliar, CRS is "nonpartisan shared staff to Congressional committees and members" -- in essence, a publicly funded thinktank. If this sounds dreadfully boring and irrelevant to you, then you understand why only absolute nerds like me got excited over this. With that said, it has tremendous potential as a resource to level the electoral playing field against incumbents (by allowing more challengers to engage in constituent service) and I really wish current progressive members would better serve that end by "commissioning" reports that can serve as a guide for campaigns who may not yet have the sort of dedicated, experienced policy staff that many incumbents do.

The CRS is an amazing service and have some of the best researchers in the world. I love using their reports and they are written so well.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 14:58

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Andrew Yang is still on his public sadomasochistic tour to try and promote the Forward Party.

After getting embarrassed and caught without having any specific policies last time, you'd think he would be more prepared this time, right?

You would be incorrect.

The interviewer asks the absolute most basic questions and Yang completely falls apart attempting to answer each and every one of them.

Yang even pulls an unironic "abortions for some, tiny American flags for others."

quote:

Annie Lowrey: What is the Forward Party?

Andrew Yang: The Forward Party is a unifying popular movement to try and restore American democracy. There are a group of structural problems that we�re trying to address�a few ways to meaningfully extract ourselves from the polarization we�re seeing and experiencing.

Almost 50 percent of both Republicans and Democrats now view the other side as corrupt and a threat to the country, which makes comity and bipartisanship and working together actually not just unpalatable, but something that gets punished politically. The polarization is being amplified by the way our party primaries are set up and the noncompetitive nature of almost 90 percent of the congressional districts in the country.

There is one-party rule in the vast majority of cities around the country, and up to 70 percent of the 500,000 local races around the country are either uncontested or uncompetitive. Most Americans aren�t experiencing what we think of as either a functioning democracy or even a two-party system.

Lowrey: I am sitting in California, where Democrats hold every statewide elected office.

Yang: There�s just one party in control! If you imagine yourself, let�s say, as a rural Democrat or a Republican in many blue cities, you have no meaningful say.

quote:

Lowrey: You say that Forward wants to represent rural Democrats and city-dwelling Republicans. Which policies are you pushing with this centrist party?

Yang: I want to stress that it is the mechanics [of the electoral system] that could improve matters. The only Republican senator who voted to impeach Donald Trump who is on the ballot this November is Lisa Murkowski. She made it through her primary. That was in large part because Alaska had a different process in place. There was a nonpartisan open primary where anyone could vote for anyone. That changed her incentives, because she didn�t have to go through a party primary. If we can make a process change that rewards legislators for serving 51 percent of their communities, as opposed to 10 to 15 percent, that can dramatically affect policy.

Lowrey: But which policies?

Yang: That is one of the more interesting communications challenges for something like Forward. We�re so accustomed to something falling on a left-right political spectrum. You frame it as a centrist party, which does describe a lot of the people that are drawn to Forward. But we�re trying to set up a system where the majority will of the American people actually gets reflected in policy.

quote:

Lowrey: Just to be clear, you are not defining the policy center. You�re not setting out any policies as you�re setting this party up. There isn�t a tax proposal or a health-care proposal that captures the will of the people unrepresented by the two parties. What does Forward stand for?

Yang: We stand for what people want to see in their own lives, in their family�s lives, and in their own community. The principles that we are championing are free people, thriving communities, in a vibrant democracy. And it is true that people in Mississippi will pursue those things in a different way than people in California. And we think that�s great.

quote:

Lowrey: What about Medicaid expansion? Is the Forward Party for the expansion of Medicaid to all adults in poverty?

Yang: I personally would be for anything that�s going to help people and families. I would guess that the vast majority of the people that are drawn to Forward would similarly be in favor. But we�re not as a movement going to apply litmus tests in that way.

quote:

Lowrey: Are there policy positions that would make a politician unwelcome to run under the Forward banner?

Yang: If they were for things that run afoul of the principles of free people, thriving communities, and vibrant democracy. And we�re emphasizing the last pillar, because we do think American democracy is eroding and disintegrating before our eyes.

quote:

Lowrey: Here�s a quote from an op-ed you wrote with David Jolly, a former Republican congressman, and Christine Todd Whitman, the former governor of New Jersey, also a Republican. Both are now in Forward�s leadership:

Most Americans don�t agree with calls from the far left to confiscate all guns and repeal the Second Amendment, but they�re also rightfully worried by the far right�s insistence on eliminating gun laws. On climate change, most Americans don�t agree with calls from the far left to completely upend our economy and way of life, but they also reject the far right�s denial that there is even a problem. On abortion, most Americans don�t agree with the far left�s extreme views on late-term abortions, but they also are alarmed by the far right�s quest to make a woman�s choice a criminal offense.

In all three cases, the �centrist� position there is the mainstream Democratic position. Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez does not run the party, and the veto point among Democrats is a West Virginian who founded a coal business. Democrats don�t want to confiscate guns. They�re not talking about permitting abortion in all circumstances.

quote:

Lowrey: Why is Forward a party, not a PAC or a think tank?

Yang: Because so many Americans have been eager for a genuine choice on the ballot. We can improve matters! We�re in a country where 50 percent of Americans self-identify as independents and 62 percent say they want a third party. If we were just another nonprofit saying, �Oh, there should be these reforms,� they would not happen. The way we�re going to make it happen is by fighting for the reforms in both blue and red states, but also presenting people a meaningful actual choice in their politics where they live.

Lowrey: The vast majority of independents are already reliable voters for one or the other party. Pew puts the number of true independents, with no political lean, at 7 percent.

Yang: If you take an independent voter and say, �Hey, does this person lean one way or the other?,� odds are that they probably do. But if you ask that same voter, �Would you like a choice that�s distinct from these two choices?,� they say yes.

quote:

Lowrey: I know that you know about Duverger�s law, which suggests that without a system of proportional representation, politics tends to become dominated by two parties. How do you plan to overcome that? Ross Perot runs. He gets one in five, one in six, votes. He gets zero votes in the Electoral College.

Yang: We prefer ranked-choice voting. That would enable there to be a winner with majority appeal, and no spoiler effects to be concerned about. Ranked-choice voting has been demonstrated to help women candidates and candidates from underrepresented communities. It is pro-moderation, making it harder for someone who can really animate 25 percent of people to win.

quote:

Lowrey: In practice, how would a third-party option make ranked-choice voting more likely?

Yang: Say there�s a critical mass of voters�Forward voters, who might be registered Republicans or Democrats or independents�coming together. There are two candidates in a race, a Democrat and a Republican. And Forward says, �We�ll get behind anyone for ranked-choice voting, because it�s better for reducing extremism.� One says yes. The other says no. You have an enormous win, whether there�s a Forward candidate on the ballot or not! Or maybe both candidates say yes. I am incredibly excited about this, because it shows we can make a positive change in the functioning of democracy without having a candidate win or even run in a particular race.

Lowrey: In 2016, Gary Johnson and Jill Stein got 5 percent of the vote in Michigan, which Trump won by less than one percentage point. How do you think about the possibility of Forward tipping a close presidential election one way or another?

Yang: Our focus is on the 506,000 locally elected officials around the country where, again, the vast majority of Americans do not have a meaningful voice. Why do people jump to the presidential? I get it because, hey, I ran for president. But this is not where Forward�s attention is, nor is it where my attention is. Our genuine mission is to create meaningful choices for people in communities around the country.

quote:

Lowrey: You tweeted that the raid on Mar-a-Lago would raise the hackles of millions of Americans who would see it as unjust persecution. Could you unpack that for me? It seems the raid was justified by violations of the Espionage Act.

Yang: I said it would inflame and activate a group of Americans who would see it in a certain light. It doesn�t necessarily mean the raid was the wrong course of action.

quote:

Lowrey: What do you think should happen with Trump?

Yang: Trump, unfortunately, is the most visible manifestation of tendencies that are going to outlast his time on the political scene. There are now dozens of people who have seen Trump�s path and are trying to follow in his footsteps in various ways. Our goal has to be to build a modern, representative, resilient, democratic system that can not just resist Trump himself, but also will be able to make it through what comes after.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/andrew-yang-forward-party/671254/?utm_source=pocket_mylist

# ? Sep 1, 2022 14:59

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

nine-gear crow posted:

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1565131880072085505

Sarah Palin just ate poo poo in Alaska. Dems pick up one new house seat AND Alaska sends the first Native American to Congress

This is really great news on multiple levels

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:04

cr0y: Mar 24, 2005

Discendo Vox posted:

It appears that the delivery companies are going full malicious compliance.

This was my take. Delivery joints can't send out stuff in plastic bags so they are using (and probably charging the customer) for those reusable canvas bags.

In a sane world at the time of delivery the company would just take back a bunch of ones that the customer already has but :effort:

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:08

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

BonoMan posted:

Can you post the article or something because I'm not quite grasping what's going on.

NJ passed a law banning the use of disposal bags, full stop. When you order a delivery, the food items still have to be transported in some kind of overall containing device. Thanks to that law, you can no longer use disposal bags for this, so restaurants have started giving orders to deliverypeople in sturdier reusable bags. These are passed on to the customer to figure out what to do with and they're just piling up in people's homes. And if the customers throw them in the trash, that's worse than throwing out bags intended to be disposable, negating the entire purpose of the law.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:11

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

BonoMan posted:

Can you post the article or something because I'm not quite grasping what's going on.

Uh, okay. It's pretty much like I said. You can't buy single-use paper or plastic bags in NJ stores anymore. Since most delivery services like Instacart, Shipt, etc. buy their groceries in store (rather than packing them in the back storeroom or something that would make much more sense), they don't seem to have any choice besides buying reuseable bags to transport (online) delivery orders. Well, at least the workers don't; it's probably not illegal for Instacart to provide their ~~workers~~gig contractors with plastic bags but lol if you think they'd volunteer to do that themselves. It's easy to end up with dozens of these bags if you get groceries delivered regularly, and as far as I can tell, none of the major chains accept them in return (yet). They're much more energy-intensive to produce than single-use plastic bags (at least 10x more; I've seen estimates of 20-50), so the net effect is almost certainly overwhelmingly negative. Some of the reuseable bags are nominally recycleable (some NJ stores having recycling bins for soft plastics), but so are single-use bags.

Here's a pile of bags and the article:

quote:

Nicole Kramaritsch of Roxbury, N.J., has 46 bags just sitting in her garage. Brian Otto has 101 of them, so many that he�s considering sewing them into blackout curtains for his baby�s bedroom. (So far, that idea has gone nowhere.) Lili Mannuzza in Whippany has 74.

�I don�t know what to do with all these bags,� she said.

The mountains of bags are an unintended consequence of New Jersey�s strict new bag ban in supermarkets. It went into effect in May and prohibits not only plastic bags but paper bags as well. The well-intentioned law seeks to cut down on waste and single-use plastics, but for many people who rely on grocery delivery and curbside pickup services their orders now come in heavy-duty reusable shopping bags � lots and lots of them, week after week.

While nearly a dozen states nationwide have implemented restrictions on single-use plastic bags, New Jersey is the only one to ban paper bags because of their environmental impact. The law also bans polystyrene foam food containers and cups, and restricts restaurants from handing out plastic straws unless they�re requested.

Emily Gonyou, 22, a gig worker in Roselle Park who provides shopping services for people through Instacart, said she was surprised when she learned the delivery company had no special plans for accommodating the ban. �They pretty much said, �OK, do exactly what you�re doing, but with reusable bags,�� she said.

Ms. Gonyou said she goes through up to 50 reusable bags a day, many of which, she suspects, could end up in the garbage.

Compared to single-use plastics, the more durable reusable bags are better for the environment only if they are actually reused. According to Shelie Miller, a professor at the University of Michigan School for Environment and Sustainability, a typical reusable bag, manufactured from polypropylene, must be used at least 10 times to account for the additional energy and material required to make it. For cotton totes, that number is much higher.

The goal of bag bans is to reduce reliance on single-use plastics like the thin bags that became ubiquitous decades ago and which are manufactured from fossil fuels and can take many lifetimes to degrade in a landfill. Many, of course, don�t make it to landfills at all, but get swept away in the wind and end up stuck and flapping in tree branches, or else they pollute waterways and oceans. Paper bags are sometimes seen as an eco-friendly alternative because they are more recyclable and made from trees, a renewable resource, yet they take significantly more energy to produce.

The ban in New Jersey, which applies to grocery stores 2,500 square feet or bigger, is meant to encourage in-store shoppers to skip single-use plastic and paper entirely, and instead bring their own reusable bags.

But that, of course, doesn�t work for most online orders.

In the past three years or so, the nation has seen a major uptick in online grocery shopping. While some of those people have returned to in-person shopping as pandemic restrictions have eased, others formed a new habit. About 6 percent of food and beverage sales are online, according to an executive at Coresight Research, a retail advisory firm.

�There�s clearly a hiccup on this,� said Bob Smith, a New Jersey state senator and co-sponsor of the bill, �and we�re going to solve it.� Mr. Smith said that the legislature would most likely create an exception by amending the rule to allow paper bags for online orders.

A spokeswoman from Instacart said the company was making sure it was complying with state laws and was choosing the most cost-effective reusable bag option for their customers.

Major supermarkets in New Jersey declined to share numbers on what share of their customers shop online and how many reusable bags they�ve sold since the ban. Some, like Walmart and Target, allow customers to forgo reusable bags for store pickup orders, but the default for delivery is still reusable bags. A representative for Stop & Shop said the company was encouraging online customers to donate bags to local food banks.

Mr. Otto, the owner of 101 bags who also has the baby bedroom that�s too bright, said he still intended to get back to sewing a blackout curtain. �Haven�t found the time yet,� he said.

Lisa Budesheim, owner of 89 bags, joked that she was considering setting up a little box in her front yard inspired by those tiny lending libraries for books, except for bags.

And Kye Riddell, who does deliveries, said the garages of some of his elderly customers were heaped with bags. �We just keep delivering in new bags,� he said.

Dr. Miller said the bag situation in New Jersey was emblematic of a lot of environmental policies. �If we don�t pay attention to the unintended impacts of policies such as the plastic waste ban, we run into the potential of playing environmental Whac-a-Mole,� she said. �We solve one environmental problem only to create or exacerbate another problem.�

A few shoppers have found ways to avoid the ban altogether. Andie Ryder, 35, who works for several delivery services in the Glassboro area, never stopped using single-use plastic bags. Just before the bag law went into effect, she stashed away hundreds of the flimsy bags to transport groceries to her customers.

In an interview, Ms. Ryder had unflattering words for the bag ban. There are bigger problems to solve in the world, she said, only to be interrupted by her best friend, who interjected, �I don�t agree!�

Either way, for now Ms. Ryder has found a solution that works for her: One of the stores where she shops has a recycling bin, and when she sees the now-banned disposable bags in there, she snaps them up and replenishes her stash. �I�m a hoarder of bags,� she said.

Precambrian Video Games fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Sep 1, 2022

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:11

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

i cannot imagine what the logic behind trying to ban paper bags is, that seems just nutty

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:14

cat botherer: Jan 6, 2022; I am interested in most phases of data processing.

haveblue posted:

NJ passed a law banning the use of disposal bags, full stop. When you order a delivery, the food items still have to be transported in some kind of overall containing device. Thanks to that law, you can no longer use disposal bags for this, so restaurants have started giving orders to deliverypeople in sturdier reusable bags. These are passed on to the customer to figure out what to do with and they're just piling up in people's homes. And if the customers throw them in the trash, that's worse than throwing out bags intended to be disposable, negating the entire purpose of the law.

That's how many grocery stores are in WA. Just thick "reusable" bags. The mandated fee is 8 cents, so plenty of people just don't think anything of it and don't bring their own bags.

evilweasel posted:

i cannot imagine what the logic behind trying to ban paper bags is, that seems just nutty

Absolutely demented. It's like being back in the 90's.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:14

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Andrew Yang is still on his public sadomasochistic tour to try and promote the Forward Party.

After getting embarrassed and caught without having any specific policies last time, you'd think he would be more prepared this time, right?

You would be incorrect.

The interviewer asks the absolute most basic questions and Yang completely falls apart attempting to answer each and every one of them.

Yang even pulls an unironic "abortions for some, tiny American flags for others."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/andrew-yang-forward-party/671254/?utm_source=pocket_mylist

The interviewer rightly points out that they don�t even have actual policy positions and is openly wondering why this is a party and not some kind of PAC.

He�s so committed to this idea that there are like a hundred million �centrist� voters that just want someone who believes in nothing to vote for

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:19

Mischievous Mink: May 29, 2012

cat botherer posted:

That's how many grocery stores are in WA. Just thick "reusable" bags. The mandated fee is 8 cents, so plenty of people just don't think anything of it and don't bring their own bags.

In -most- grocery stores if you pay with food stamps they won't charge for the bags at all, either. Safeway always does for me though rip.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:21

Toebone: Jul 1, 2002; Start remembering what you hear.

People also started taking plastic shopping baskets home with them instead of buying a bag, so all the stores got rid of their shopping baskets.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:21

FLIPADELPHIA: Apr 27, 2007; Heavy Shit; Grimey Drawer

If Yang just came out and said that the Forward Party only exists to advocate for the single issue of advancing ranked choice voting, it might have some chance of success. Until that time, he's just going to keep being asked about policies and look like a dipshit when he continually dodges the question.

Ranked choice voting is actually pretty popular in certain areas.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:22

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

evilweasel posted:

i cannot imagine what the logic behind trying to ban paper bags is, that seems just nutty

I would still vastly prefer single-use plastic bags for deliveries, which presumably are also easier for workers. I just end up using them as garbage bags anyway.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:23

Toebone: Jul 1, 2002; Start remembering what you hear.

evilweasel posted:

i cannot imagine what the logic behind trying to ban paper bags is, that seems just nutty

Paper bags are more expensive than plastic. Grocery store chains lobbied to ban paper bags too so they wouldn't have to switch over, and can sell reusable bags at a markup instead.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:24

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

evilweasel posted:

i cannot imagine what the logic behind trying to ban paper bags is, that seems just nutty

I think the logic NJ was using is that by banning all disposable bags, people would all switch to reusable. If they left paper as an option, then nobody would change behavior and they would just paper instead.

A lot of states have banned plastic bags. But, NJ is the only one that has completely banned disposable bags of any kind.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:25

Riven: Apr 22, 2002

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Andrew Yang is still on his public sadomasochistic tour to try and promote the Forward Party.

After getting embarrassed and caught without having any specific policies last time, you'd think he would be more prepared this time, right?

You would be incorrect.

The interviewer asks the absolute most basic questions and Yang completely falls apart attempting to answer each and every one of them.

Yang even pulls an unironic "abortions for some, tiny American flags for others."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/andrew-yang-forward-party/671254/?utm_source=pocket_mylist

Lol, nobody will back or give a poo poo about someone trying to people-please by having no position in this day and age. If you stand for nothing, Yang, what�ll you fall for?

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:28

Cranappleberry: Jan 27, 2009

creating non-disposable bags has a higher carbon footprint than thin plastic ones. It may not lead to the same issue with tiny plastic pieces accumulating in the ocean or microplastics in drinking water, but it's still worse.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

I think the logic NJ was using is that by banning all disposable bags, people would all switch to reusable. If they left paper as an option, then nobody would change behavior and they would just paper instead.

A lot of states have banned plastic bags. But, NJ is the only one that has completely banned disposable bags of any kind.

even sturdy paper bags tend to tear easily quite due to anything with edges or something that's dense/heavy. Food delivery makes sense because the food is light enough, containers tend to be rounded plastic (and can be reused) or styrofoam. Paper bags can also be recycled.

Banning disposable plastic bags is not a full solution and it's fraught with problems of it's own but at least keeping paper bags won't make things worse.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:29

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

FlamingLiberal posted:

The interviewer rightly points out that they don�t even have actual policy positions and is openly wondering why this is a party and not some kind of PAC.

He�s so committed to this idea that there are like a hundred million �centrist� voters that just want someone who believes in nothing to vote for

Wrong. He gives plenty of policy positions when asked:

quote:

We stand for what people want to see in their own lives, in their family�s lives, and in their own community. The principles that we are championing are free people, thriving communities, in a vibrant democracy. And it is true that people in Mississippi will pursue those things in a different way than people in California. And we think that�s great.

quote:

I personally would be for anything that�s going to help people and families. I would guess that the vast majority of the people that are drawn to Forward would similarly be in favor.

quote:

Most Americans don�t agree with calls from the far left to confiscate all guns and repeal the Second Amendment, but they�re also rightfully worried by the far right�s insistence on eliminating gun laws. On climate change, most Americans don�t agree with calls from the far left to completely upend our economy and way of life, but they also reject the far right�s denial that there is even a problem. On abortion, most Americans don�t agree with the far left�s extreme views on late-term abortions, but they also are alarmed by the far right�s quest to make a woman�s choice a criminal offense.

See! If it helps people and families, then they are for it. They are against things that hurt people and families.

They also favor things that improve your community and foster freedom, while opposing things that destroy freedom and community.

Plus, they are against both extremes and favor policy somewhere in the middle (don't ask exactly where in between those two, though).

How can you not figure out what they stand for? How much more clear does Yang need to be!

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:33

BonoMan: Feb 20, 2002; Jade Ear Joe

eXXon posted:

Uh, okay. It's pretty much like I said. You can't buy single-use paper or plastic bags in NJ stores anymore. Since most delivery services like Instacart, Shipt, etc. buy their groceries in store (rather than packing them in the back storeroom or something that would make much more sense), they don't seem to have any choice besides buying reuseable bags to transport (online) delivery orders. Well, at least the workers don't; it's probably not illegal for Instacart to provide their ~~workers~~gig contractors with plastic bags but lol if you think they'd volunteer to do that themselves. It's easy to end up with dozens of these bags if you get groceries delivered regularly, and as far as I can tell, none of the major chains accept them in return (yet). They're much more energy-intensive to produce than single-use plastic bags (at least 10x more; I've seen estimates of 20-50), so the net effect is almost certainly overwhelmingly negative. Some of the reuseable bags are nominally recycleable (some NJ stores having recycling bins for soft plastics), but so are single-use bags.

Here's a pile of bags and the article:

Thanks for the condescending "uh okay" but my brain skipped over the online orders part. I was like "uh why aren't people just reusing them like they're supposed to?"

Yeah that's pretty dumb. I'd just offload the groceries and give the bag back to the driver to reuse, but I know that's probably not applicable for every situation.

I'm certain they'll create a quick legislative fix to it though.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:35

Randalor: Sep 4, 2011

Lowrey posted:

In all three cases, the “centrist” position there is the mainstream Democratic position. Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez does not run the party, and the veto point among Democrats is a West Virginian who founded a coal business. Democrats don’t want to confiscate guns. They’re not talking about permitting abortion in all circumstances.

I love this part, where he straight up says "The stuff your party is espousing IS the Democratic position." Just straight up "Why does your party exist anyways?" energy there. Yang is so determined to not hold an actual position on any policy that even something "crazy" like "We feel that there are matters too important to the citizens that the representatives should not have final say on. We want to have the people vote on important policies like abortion rights so their voices can be heard" is probably taking too much of a stance on something, despite it... kind of sounding like what he wants to say? I think? He's doing a good enough job of contorting his words that he could probably be in Cirque du Soleil.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:35

Leon Trotsky 2012: Aug 27, 2009; YOU CAN TRUST ME!*

_{*Israeli Government-affiliated poster}

Randalor posted:

I love this part, where he straight up says "The stuff your party is espousing IS the Democratic position." Just straight up "Why does your party exist anyways?" energy there. Yang is so determined to not hold an actual position on any policy that even something "crazy" like "We feel that there are matters too important to the citizens that the representatives should not have final say on. We want to have the people vote on important policies like abortion rights so their voices can be heard" is probably taking too much of a stance on something, despite it... kind of sounding like what he wants to say? I think? He's doing a good enough job of contorting his words that he could probably be in Cirque du Soleil.

He's just doing the intellectually lazy thing of saying, "Everyone else is intellectually lazy because they just follow their ideology/party regardless of the situation. I am an independent thinker because I make my decisions by doing the opposite of those ideologies/parties. Therefore, one end is the far left and the other is the far right and I will always be between them."

Usually, you do that in order to try and draw in non-political people who think like that or to show you are not a partisan if you are running in an election where your party has very low approval. For Yang, I think he just legitimately believes that this is his only remaining path in politics and buys into his own dumb marketing.

This isn't going to make him any money, it isn't going to help him politically, and it isn't making people adopt his ideas (because there are none!), so the only reason he could be doing this is if he is high on his own supply.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:41

Cranappleberry: Jan 27, 2009

BonoMan posted:

Thanks for the condescending "uh okay" but my brain skipped over the online orders part. I was like "uh why aren't people just reusing them like they're supposed to?"

Yeah that's pretty dumb. I'd just offload the groceries and give the bag back to the driver to reuse, but I know that's probably not applicable for every situation.

I'm certain they'll create a quick legislative fix to it though.

There should probably be some sort of rebate. Maybe turn them into a recycling place and you get a penny back per and then they hand them back to businesses.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:48

slurm: Jul 28, 2022; by Hand Knit

BonoMan posted:

Thanks for the condescending "uh okay" but my brain skipped over the online orders part. I was like "uh why aren't people just reusing them like they're supposed to?"

Yeah that's pretty dumb. I'd just offload the groceries and give the bag back to the driver to reuse, but I know that's probably not applicable for every situation.

I'm certain they'll create a quick legislative fix to it though.

I'm sure it's probably basically illegal to reuse anything bc of worries of bedbugs/monkeypox/whatever

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:48

DeadlyMuffin: Jul 3, 2007

cat botherer posted:

Policing is a recent thing in the history of civilization. A society without the extreme inequality we have would not have anywhere near the crime we do in the first place.

What makes you say this? People dedicated to enforcing laws seems to be thousands of years old. Maybe you're defining "police" in a different way?

Check out the "History" section here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:51

MixMasterMalaria: Jul 26, 2007

BonoMan posted:

Yeah that's pretty dumb. I'd just offload the groceries and give the bag back to the driver to reuse, but I know that's probably not applicable for every situation.

I don't think that every driver is going to want to take additional unpaid waiting for customers to unbag their groceries just to end up stuck with the bags themselves.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:53

haveblue: Aug 15, 2005; Toilet Rascal

Yeah one solution might be to have the delivery people pick up the old bags and return them to the store, but lol if you think instacart is going to pay them extra for this. You'd also need a different solution for drop-off deliveries made without interacting with the occupant

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:55

BonoMan: Feb 20, 2002; Jade Ear Joe

MixMasterMalaria posted:

I don't think that every driver is going to want to take additional unpaid waiting for customers to unbag their groceries just to end up stuck with the bags themselves.

Yeah I mean I assume this was one or two bags at a time. And that they'd reuse the bags themselves on their next delivery.

But your point still stands and it shouldn't be on them to solve it. I'm just sort of thinking out loud.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:55

Automata 10 Pack: Jun 21, 2007; Ten games published by Automata, on one cassette

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

He's just doing the intellectually lazy thing of saying, "Everyone else is intellectually lazy because they just follow their ideology/party regardless of the situation. I am an independent thinker because I make my decisions by doing the opposite of those ideologies/parties. Therefore, one end is the far left and the other is the far right and I will always be between them."

Usually, you do that in order to try and draw in non-political people who think like that or to show you are not a partisan if you are running in an election where your party has very low approval. For Yang, I think he just legitimately believes that this is his only remaining path in politics and buys into his own dumb marketing.

This isn't going to make him any money, it isn't going to help him politically, and it isn't making people adopt his ideas (because there are none!), so the only reason he could be doing this is if he is high on his own supply.

I disagree, I think embarrassing himself like this does actually help his career. It keeps his name in our heads and gets him on TV. Do that enough and somehow that�ll legitimize you enough to get in on the sweeter grifts. American politics y�all.

Automata 10 Pack fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Sep 1, 2022

# ? Sep 1, 2022 15:59

PhazonLink: Jul 17, 2010

the nj bag thing seems like growing pains ,nott hinking far enough for ripple effects, grocery stores and food places not being nimble enough to see a new thing they need to do ; accept relatively clean bags bag, and just send them off toi bulk laundry and then back to reuse. seems like it should be resolved soon.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 16:00

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

PhazonLink posted:

the nj bag thing seems like growing pains ,nott hinking far enough for ripple effects, grocery stores and food places not being nimble enough to see a new thing they need to do ; accept relatively clean bags bag, and just send them off toi bulk laundry and then back to reuse. seems like it should be resolved soon.

Considering that NJ is one of what, 30+ states? that still don't do glass bottle returns, I wouldn't hold my breath.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 16:04

Tiny Timbs: Sep 6, 2008

haveblue posted:

Yeah one solution might be to have the delivery people pick up the old bags and return them to the store, but lol if you think instacart is going to pay them extra for this. You'd also need a different solution for drop-off deliveries made without interacting with the occupant

They�re not going to do this. They�re not going to wait any longer than is necessary to drop off the delivery so they can get to the next one.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 16:05

slurm: Jul 28, 2022; by Hand Knit

PhazonLink posted:

the nj bag thing seems like growing pains ,nott hinking far enough for ripple effects, grocery stores and food places not being nimble enough to see a new thing they need to do ; accept relatively clean bags bag, and just send them off toi bulk laundry and then back to reuse. seems like it should be resolved soon.

What's the cost of sorting and transportation and laundry and making the bags able to withstand industrial laundry vs a paper bag?

# ? Sep 1, 2022 16:11

koolkal: Oct 21, 2008; this thread maybe doesnt have room for 2 green xbox one avs

On the bright side, Amazon drivers will now be able to poo poo into reusable bags on their trucks while in NJ instead of having to poo poo into thin plastic ones or pooper scoopers.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 16:14

BonoMan: Feb 20, 2002; Jade Ear Joe

slurm posted:

What's the cost of sorting and transportation and laundry and making the bags able to withstand industrial laundry vs a paper bag?

Yeah banning paper bags is just a huge wtf.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 16:20

small butter: Oct 8, 2011

So why do you think Trump took classified documents, then fought the DoJ about it, and then hid them and lied about them before the raid?

Could something be there that incriminates him in something? If so, don't other departments have access to these documents (since someone besides Trump typed them up), and thus the evidence of these crimes?

If only he has access, why hide them? Why not just burn them?

Could this simply be Trump being so dumb that he simply felt entitled too keep some classified-yet-dumb documents (letters to and from Kim Jong-un) for ego or sentimental purposes? I'm just trying to parse the stupidity of not handing over the documents right away

# ? Sep 1, 2022 17:35

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

School funding is also a tricky issue because some schools are underfunded, but the U.S. also spends more per student than the average OECD country by a large margin. Luxembourg and Norway are the only countries that spend more per student. So, it isn't as simple as they are short on cash.

Yeah the average doesn't really give you the whole picture.

Somehow we spend a poo poo-ton of money but teachers are treated like poo poo and schools are falling apart.

America.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 17:47

Cranappleberry: Jan 27, 2009

eXXon posted:

Considering that NJ is one of what, 30+ states? that still don't do glass bottle returns, I wouldn't hold my breath.

pushing recycling of product containers onto the end-user is bullshit but there should be a massive, subsidized recycling apparatus for all types of plastic, glass, paper, metal and etc that are recyclable of all varieties and shapes.

Many places don't have infrastructure to recycle oddly shaped glass bottles or different colors of glass, nor most plastics (which is why there aren't multiple segregated containers to sort them). Some recycling companies won't even bother to tell their customers this and end up throwing most of it into the trash. Welcome to America. USA USA

# ? Sep 1, 2022 17:47

TheDisreputableDog: Oct 13, 2005

NJ resident here, the bag situation sucks. Even a smallish food order will now be delivered in a big cardboard box, which is a pain in the balls to break down and recycle. The box under my sink that used to be full of plastic bags is now full of semi-reusable bags and they get tossed regularly.

# ? Sep 1, 2022 17:48

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# ? May 25, 2024 20:23

slurm: Jul 28, 2022; by Hand Knit

Jaxyon posted:

Yeah the average doesn't really give you the whole picture.

Somehow we spend a poo poo-ton of money but teachers are treated like poo poo and schools are falling apart.

America.

Is this because of our hideously inefficient land use?

# ? Sep 1, 2022 17:48

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE Summer 2022: You can't change the crisis settings.

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