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And here I am feeling like the show is moving too fast.
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Sep 3, 2022 02:57
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Ever since Game of Thrones is the poisoned fruit that caused prestige TV to become synonymous with the serialized format I've accepted that I'm probably not going to get many shows with standalone episodes anymore. I was expecting LOTR to have a slow start since this entire season looks to be dedicated to establishing the show as a longterm project. With that concession out of the way I can find stuff to enjoy even if I'd prefer a TV show that gives me an hour of entertainment with a complete story. And there's good stuff to see so far. We just need to make an entire episode about Elrond and Durin being bros on a road trip of Middle Earth surveying the finest mineral deposits. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Sep 3, 2022 |
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Sep 3, 2022 03:06
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MrMojok posted:I just could somehow never get down with this idea. If elves can take down an oliphant single-handedly and also swim hundreds of miles through the open ocean, then it seems like a platoon-size unit of elves (~40) could probably wreck a battalion-size unit of orcs (~900) I think you are spot on. Those elves, who were capable of such feats, were also extraordinary among their own kind. They compare to other elves like Aragorn would compare to common men. Also keep in mind that silly stuff, like Legolas braining an Oliphaunt, is exclusive to the movies. Elves are not superheroes. They are a good chunk stronger, faster and more resilient than men, also they don't get sick, but they can still be struck down or die from exposure - the best example for that are the Noldor's significant losses during the crossing of the Helcaraxë -> https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Helcarax%C3%AB There are even some among the first men, like Húrin, whose martial prowess could rival that of even some lesser elf lords. Leaping over mountains or swimming thousands of miles across the sea is not among their power. The Balrog-slayers you were thinking of are Ecthelion of the Fountain and Glorfindel and both did not survive that fight, despite slaying their respective enemy. The mightiest warrior among the Noldor was probably Fingolfin, he even lasted a few rounds against Morgoth and actually wounded him, before he was slain. But he was one of a kind. For example Fingon (his oldest son) was slain by Balrogs during the Dagor Bragollach, proving that taking on a Balrog is a heroic feat and not something that any elf lord can do. Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Sep 3, 2022 |
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Sep 3, 2022 03:06
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 Oh hey there sea monster. There’s also a Cthulhu looking thing further east in the Sundering Sea on the map. Mahoning fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Sep 3, 2022 |
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Sep 3, 2022 03:09
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Gresh posted:If your show has hasn't hooked me within the first 2 episodes, then sorry, you failed. I just don't buy the excuse that this is a TV show and that "setup needed to happen" in a post-Game of Thrones world. Just look at the first two episodes of Game of Thrones(or even House of the Dragon) and all the many characters and plot lines it beautifully sets up in that with forward momentum. ROP is just a stilted and meandering slog, albeit an expensive pretty one. Could things turn around later? Maybe, but I hate that poo poo in a world with so much media to choose from that it makes me feel like I'm being conned and wasting my time. And that is absolutely fair, If you have really decided that you dont want to watch after 2 hours of viewing then I think that is fine. Pacing can be quite a difficult thing and what some might find acceptable, others wont, you cant win them all. Although I will say that frankly if you have an issue with the pacing of this show, please never read the books because they are so so much slower than this. One of the reasons the Peter Jackson trilogy works so well is because it cuts out huge amounts of stuff that would kill the pacing of the films stone dead, like say, a 17(iirc?) year time skip between Frodo getting the ring and setting off on his journey. What I find ridiculous is people throwing out 1/10 reviews complaining about petty poo poo like Galadrial being an adept fighter, or claiming that black characters go against the spirit of tolkien, like they have a single clue about what his reaction to that would have been. People are so polarized nowadays, Even if you didnt like the show, I am sure that there must have been some stuff that you would praise, people should be willing to acknowledge that and then judge it accordingly rather than declaring that its literally the worst thing ever broadcast. As it stands though, objectivity is out of the window and its just sad, really really sad. Its like The Last of Us 2 all over again. People who make kneejerk reactions and start slinging poo poo everywhere like monkeys. Edit: Also, Game of Thrones really wasnt as fleet footed to begin with as you are making out. There are lots of times where it meandered between plotlines, and the only reason it got away with the amount of scenes that would otherwise have killed the show stone dead, is because those scenes would typically have tits in them. What it did have, was one of the most intriguing first 5 minutes of television that I have ever seen and a killer cliffhanger at the end of its first episode. Perhaps thats what this show lacks on some level but there was more than enough breathtaking stuff inbetween for me to be intrigued. FiftySeven fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Sep 3, 2022 |
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Sep 3, 2022 03:12
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Gresh posted:If your show has hasn't hooked me within the first 2 episodes, then sorry, you failed. I just don't buy the excuse that this is a TV show and that "setup needed to happen" in a post-Game of Thrones world. Just look at the first two episodes of Game of Thrones(or even House of the Dragon) and all the many characters and plot lines it beautifully sets up in that with forward momentum. ROP is just a stilted and meandering slog, albeit an expensive pretty one. Could things turn around later? Maybe, but I hate that poo poo in a world with so much media to choose from that it makes me feel like I'm being conned and wasting my time. This coming out at the same time as House of the Dragon really makes this stark. The entire first episode I was bored out of my mind and wanting to just switch to watching HotD instead.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:17
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what this really needs is some levity. or a sexy pouting guy like in the Wheel of Time
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Sep 3, 2022 03:19
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Just rewatching now, realized that the entire Harfoot subplot takes place in Rhovanion, essentially due north of Mordor.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:22
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Tolkien's work is epic fantasy. Except for The Hobbit and some short stories it always takes a good amount of time before things start rolling. His work is much more akin to something like The Iliad, than to modern literature. There's countless places and names. A long list of who is who. As well as a ton of history and lore behind the setting. But once the table is prepared all of his works turn into a feast and I don't mind it at all if the show takes it's time. Also his writing is still a lot more speedy than Robert Jordan's... Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Sep 3, 2022 |
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Sep 3, 2022 03:23
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mistermojo posted:what this really needs is some levity. or a sexy pouting guy like in the Wheel of Time Dwarf spinoff.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:24
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FiftySeven posted:And that is absolutely fair, If you have really decided that you dont want to watch after 2 hours of viewing then I think that is fine. Pacing can be quite a difficult thing and what some might find acceptable, others wont, you cant win them all. Although I will say that frankly if you have an issue with the pacing of this show, please never read the books because they are so so much slower than this. One of the reasons the Peter Jackson trilogy works so well is because it cuts out huge amounts of stuff that would kill the pacing of the films stone dead, like say, a 17(iirc?) year time skip between Frodo getting the ring and setting off on his journey. For the past ~25 years (good god) I've run a fan-art site for a movie, and I've constantly experimented with various kinds of metrics-gathering and community features. One of which (this was in its heyday back around 2000-2005) was a 1-10 star rating on people's uploaded art. I learned very quickly a number of very useful things that taught me many things about people: - Users very, very seldom put an actual, properly-thought-out, sincere rating on something. Most of the time it is either 1 or 10, because they're trying to either pump up their friends or knife their enemies - Those few users who do give a reasonable rating tend to come in at around 7 for just about everything, no matter how amazing the quality or how much of a rank beginner piece it is; it's a nice comfortable number, especially when you don't want to be overly hurtful or overly effusive to people in your community who you're interacting with on a daily basis - The number of people who vote 10 tend to outnumber the people who vote 1 by a margin of about 30% - The end result of these factors is that every single piece of art in the system averages out over the course of gathering thousands of data points to a rating of 7.3, ±0.000001, and ranking art by the star rating becomes completely useless - (People who tend to get lower ratings than that get discouraged and leave the site, and people who get higher ratings get swollen egos and start acting like dipshits) - (1/10 star ratings are an extremely bad idea for a community art sharing site, and you'd be better off just doing a Like button and counting those) E: All of this is irrelevant to the quoted post except that I thought it might be funny to mention in light of the C-shaped review distribution lmao Data Graham fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Sep 3, 2022 |
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Sep 3, 2022 03:26
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MrMojok posted:I just could somehow never get down with this idea. If elves can take down an oliphant single-handedly and also swim hundreds of miles through the open ocean, then it seems like a platoon-size unit of elves (~40) could probably wreck a battalion-size unit of orcs (~900) An elf fought Morgoth in single combat and wounded him severely (though yeah Fingolfin died). Morgoth is a god. Elves can absolutely take on a bunch of orcs or swim a lot.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:29
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The show has a weird quality to it that I just can't get into. It felt less like watching a story and more like people doing a made-for-TV reenactment of a story (which I guess it technically is). I was expecting at the end of the episode it would cut to Jonathan Frakes saying, "Nope! Never happened!" Or maybe in the finale the camera will pull back and we'll see the characters doing some sort of community pageant on a high-school stage. Also the elves just standing in their boat and posing for the whole trip was loving hilarious.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:32
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Should have just been T-posing in the boat the whole journey e: or twerking
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Sep 3, 2022 03:35
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It's amusing to me how the surface of the sea was a raging maelstrom but halbrand was able to dive straight down after Galadriel like it was the calmest water.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:37
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WoodrowSkillson posted:black speech plays in the background more than once during the stranger scenes. One of the youtube videos I've seen mentions the fact that in the first episode when they are in the abandoned fortress Galadriel mentions its so evil and poo poo that the torches dont give off heat, and when Nori stumbles into the crater the stranger is in she feels no heat from the fire around her. I have a feeling the guy floating around the ocean with Galadriel ends up being the Witch King.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:38
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Arc Hammer posted:It's amusing to me how the surface of the sea was a raging maelstrom but halbrand was able to dive straight down after Galadriel like it was the calmest water. The commander in "Das Boot" explains it pretty well 
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Sep 3, 2022 03:39
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Halbrand will become a king of Men and pass into the shadow realm.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:39
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As someone who's read LOTR like a billion times but has never touched Sil/UT/etc I thought this was pretty bad. Agreed that it looks absolutely gorgeous, not just expensive but really spectacular. And seeing the glory days of Khazad-dûm was a total treat. Beyond that I found the writing really dull, everything is so solemn and portentious that you totally feel the weight of all these competing storylines. The Harfoots are obviously and wisely intended to be a counterpart to the more serious stuff but it just didn't work for me at all, I couldn't give a gently caress about any of these characters. The action scenes were of middling quality and there were a number of kinda jarringly discordant moments for me that didn't hit right. I do want to call out that the whole chunk at the beginning on Galadriel's pursuit of Sauron was a fuckin banger and had me legitimately stoked for what was to come. On the whole though I give it maybe 4/10. MaoistBanker posted:I highly doubt anyone is just gonna say "gently caress this, I'm out after two hours." quote:Payne and McKay knew the series was expected to run for five seasons and were able to plan elements of the final season, including the series' final shot, while working on the first. I guess I'm in, but barely
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Sep 3, 2022 03:39
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mistermojo posted:what this really needs is some levity. or a sexy pouting guy like in the Wheel of Time I am really hoping for nude hobbits
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Sep 3, 2022 03:45
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rivetz posted:As someone who's read LOTR like a billion times but has never touched Sil/UT/etc I thought this was pretty bad. Agreed that it looks absolutely gorgeous, not just expensive but really spectacular. And seeing the glory days of Khazad-dûm was a total treat. Beyond that I found the writing really dull, everything is so solemn and portentious that you totally feel the weight of all these competing storylines. The Harfoots are obviously and wisely intended to be a counterpart to the more serious stuff but it just didn't work for me at all, I couldn't give a gently caress about any of these characters. The action scenes were of middling quality and there were a number of kinda jarringly discordant moments for me that didn't hit right. Every series in the history of the world says they have it all planned out lol. Your sub-conscious really wants to make this work it seems and will latch onto anything even in the face of dissatisfaction.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:49
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Hryme posted:This is the description of younger Galadriel from Unfinished tales and letters: God, Galadriel rules forever. Hryme posted:and passing the last test departed from Middle-earth for ever." I love that moment in Fellowship where Galadriel suddenly pulls herself back from the brink, takes a moment where she seems almost physically staggered by how close she just came to convincing herself to take the ring, and says she will go into the west "and remain Galadriel" 
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Sep 3, 2022 03:49
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shirunei posted:Every series in the history of the world says they have it all planned out lol. Your sub-conscious really wants to make this work it seems and will latch onto anything even in the face of dissatisfaction. Plenty of show runners have poo poo planned out but none are ever guaranteed the entire series before they even begin. This is literally a first in the history of television as far as I know.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:51
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THEY HAVE A PLAN
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Sep 3, 2022 03:52
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rivetz posted:As someone who's read LOTR like a billion times but has never touched Sil/UT/etc I thought this was pretty bad. Agreed that it looks absolutely gorgeous, not just expensive but really spectacular. And seeing the glory days of Khazad-dûm was a total treat. Beyond that I found the writing really dull, everything is so solemn and portentious that you totally feel the weight of all these competing storylines. The Harfoots are obviously and wisely intended to be a counterpart to the more serious stuff but it just didn't work for me at all, I couldn't give a gently caress about any of these characters. The action scenes were of middling quality and there were a number of kinda jarringly discordant moments for me that didn't hit right. As someone who loves anything Tolkien I also have a hard time to get invested into the show. We already know where characters like Galadriel, Elrond or Gil-galad come from and where they will go to in a few thousand years and it's irritating me to see some of these characters act so much outside of their established personality. I find Arondir's arc way more interesting, cause he's a blank slate. Also I'm curious who the stranger will turn out to be. Loved Khazad-dûm, especially because of the amount of green, the terrace farming and the sunlight they let in. That makes it look much more like a home and less like the fortresses of previous movies that were just just stone, iron and treasure chambers. I'm still giving it the benefit of doubt, but if they screw up Númenor in the next episode I won't be happy. Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Sep 3, 2022 |
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Sep 3, 2022 03:53
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Mahoning posted:Plenty of show runners have poo poo planned out but none are ever guaranteed the entire series before they even begin. This is literally a first in the history of television as far as I know. Nah, Babylon 5 was the first show to truly do this.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:54
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I said come in! posted:Nah, Babylon 5 was the first show to truly do this. And that famously got every exploding curveball in the world thrown at it, and JMS had to keep reeling and re-forming around the gaping wounds like the T-1000 and somehow it worked
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Sep 3, 2022 03:55
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I was expecting this to be much worse but I really enjoyed it. Something about the combination of the music and delivery of the lore struck the same affect as the films and got me to geek out a bit by pausing so I could read some of the wikis. Even if the show deviates from the source material, it still gives me (a charlatan Tolkein fan) an excuse to learn more about such a rich fictional world. Beyond that, I thought the CGI was pretty good during the quick montages and the sweeping shots of middle earth/nature but a bit wonky during scenes involving characters walking and talking. This, combined with the costumes occasionally looking like leftovers from other streaming fantasy/scifi shows took me out of that sense of being back in that world. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season .
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Sep 3, 2022 03:55
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It helps that the soundtrack is by Bear McCreary. Howard Shore did a track or two as well apparently.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:57
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I said come in! posted:It helps that the soundtrack is by Bear McCreary. Howard Shore did a track or two as well apparently. Yeah, I saw his name listed as composing the main theme, I believe.
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Sep 3, 2022 03:59
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rivetz posted:As someone who's read LOTR like a billion times but has never touched Sil/UT/etc I thought this was pretty bad. Agreed that it looks absolutely gorgeous, not just expensive but really spectacular. And seeing the glory days of Khazad-dûm was a total treat. Beyond that I found the writing really dull, everything is so solemn and portentious that you totally feel the weight of all these competing storylines. The Harfoots are obviously and wisely intended to be a counterpart to the more serious stuff but it just didn't work for me at all, I couldn't give a gently caress about any of these characters. The action scenes were of middling quality and there were a number of kinda jarringly discordant moments for me that didn't hit right. pretty much agree, everything just had this mechanical feel to it, theres no eloquence to it and the LOTR film trilogy loving sings i may give it a few more episodes but if it doesn't get significantly better its adios for me and lol that prologue, the rights issues really shows because there was absolutely no other reason not to show Melkor and Ungoliant destroying the trees
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Sep 3, 2022 03:59
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I said come in! posted:It helps that the soundtrack is by Bear McCreary. Howard Shore did a track or two as well apparently. Shore only did the title score for the opening credits.
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Sep 3, 2022 04:00
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FiftySeven posted:Lets be real here, there are 2 issues here at play. Firstly, lots of people (hell, you might include me in this catagory) were primed for this to be bad from the beginning, and are not judging the show fairly. Second, there are some people who are basically outing themselves as either racist or sexist and are objecting to the presence of any characters who might be considered diverse or progressive. Its honestly pathetic, and its really helping show that there is an embarassingly large amount of people in the world right now who have got incredibly comfortable with being overt about their bigotry. FiftySeven posted:Perhaps, but lets be fair, the majority of those reviews are not worth a second of anyone's time. Review bombing is stupid and honestly I dont give a single gently caress about a company taking steps to make the practice pointless. Essentially my feelings on the subject. I gave it an 8/10, but I can see how some people could get to a 7, 6, or maybe even a 5 if they're that much of a purist but still a fan of adapted works. But anything below that is in danger of falling in bad faith territory, and to give it a 1 is something that is completely beyond the pale unless you had a very particular, very nasty axe of a particular shape to grind. Tolkien purists who didn't even like the movies are the exception, but would anything other than Tolkien getting resurrected and magically writing more please them?
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Sep 3, 2022 04:02
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I said come in! posted:Nah, Babylon 5 was the first show to truly do this. Even then, they weren’t guaranteed all 5 seasons. It very nearly did not get a 5th season.
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Sep 3, 2022 04:02
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Crapilicious posted:Tolkien purists who didn't even like the movies are the exception, but would anything other than Tolkien getting resurrected and magically writing more please them? I find most self proclaimed “Tolkien purists” to be that in name only as a lot of things they complain about in adaptations are things Tolkien himself was guilty of.
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Sep 3, 2022 04:05
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Gresh posted:pretty much agree, everything just had this mechanical feel to it, theres no eloquence to it and the LOTR film trilogy loving sings I think it really shows that they did not pick from Hollywood's A-list. Jackson's movies had actors like: Ian McKellen, Orlando Bloom, Sean Bean, Cate Blanchett, Christopher Lee(!!), Viggo Mortensen and a lot of other talented people who made stuff work and gave gravitas to dialogues and characters that would otherwise have been corny or goofy.
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Sep 3, 2022 04:08
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Arc Hammer posted:Halbrand will become a king of Men and pass into the shadow realm. Yeah, if not the Witch King, he's certainly on that Nazgûl train.
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Sep 3, 2022 04:09
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I hope the show makes room for more sea-soaked elves in gauzy shifts.
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Sep 3, 2022 04:16
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Hammerstein posted:I think it really shows that they did not pick from Hollywood's A-list. Jackson's movies had actors like: Ian McKellen, Orlando Bloom, Sean Bean, Cate Blanchett, Christopher Lee(!!), Viggo Mortensen and a lot of other talented people who made stuff work and gave gravitas to dialogues and characters that would otherwise have been corny or goofy. Almost everything about Jackson's trilogy owns though so the bar is just crazy high. I'm just glad the show is better than the Hobbit.
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Sep 3, 2022 04:29
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To be fair that's not difficult. There's three hours of fantastic footage in the Hobbit trilogy but you uave to sift through ten hours of Alfred in a corset to get all of it.
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Sep 3, 2022 04:31
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