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For every Hellstar there is there are like five dozen weird and janky suboptimal mechs to pick from. There is no end to the weird stuff you can play with if you move beyond intro tech. In fact, if your aim is to try to find good ways to use and play junk designs, there is far more choice.
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Sep 5, 2022 02:14
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If your 'Mech has more than one gun, more than the base number of heat sinks, and isn't capable of overheating by at least 4, then your 'Mech is boring and sucks and you can do better This is true for every kind of heat sink
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Sep 5, 2022 02:40
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One game shop I played at banned Masakaris because every munchkin loved the idea of a 4 CERPPC machine that could attempt headshots. Before CV came about, we kinda sorta tried a bid system like outta the fiction, but it didnt work very well. I thought the most overpowered Mechs from the 3050 era were the goddamned Dashers. They were like superpowered Jenners, just running around and carving up assault Mech backs.
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Sep 5, 2022 02:48
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Yeah it would not be an exaggeration to say that the best part of post 3025 tech is that it opens up new and different ways to be bad, as opposed to 3025’s “you didn’t boat medium lasers”. Look at the Archangel. I mean it’s not BAD bad, but it’s far more interesting than it is optimal. Stuffed with advanced tech and cyborg perks and nearly forgets to bring any guns.
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Sep 5, 2022 02:49
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PeterWeller posted:I'm a mild 3025 grog. I don't mind playing with 3050 and later tech, but I prefer sticking to the basic stuff and having to struggle to balance accuracy, heat, and mobility. Sounds like you need to field more Hellbringers my friend We have such variants to show you 
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Sep 5, 2022 03:15
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General Battuta posted:Yeah it would not be an exaggeration to say that the best part of post 3025 tech is that it opens up new and different ways to be bad, as opposed to 3025’s “you didn’t boat medium lasers”. I stopped paying attention to BattleTech for a while and the first 'mech I looked at when I came back was the Archangel Invictus. Seeing it was 100 tons with two guns and a melee weapon made me think they completely redid the BattleTech rules. However, the Archangel Dominus is probably my all-time favorite 100 tonner, though I am also a weirdo who likes the AS7-K Atlas and the TDK-7KMA Thunder Hawk (aka the only thing stopping artillery from being a close quarters weapon is your state of mind.)
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Sep 5, 2022 03:15
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Blood of Kerensky 3 is dedicated to the men and women of Operation Desert Storm 
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Sep 5, 2022 03:16
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My favorite 100 tonner is the King Crab variant that uses a 400 XXL and Composite Structure with a Supercharger to go 4/6[8] with two LB-20Xs and a Plasma Rifle. The candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
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Sep 5, 2022 03:51
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Strobe posted:The suggestion that double heat sinks removed the heat management aspect of the game is the weirdest way to admit that you don't play the fun 'mechs that absolutely exist in later eras. The problem isn't with double heat sinks, it's engine double heat sinks. Because you get ten free heat dissipation simply by checking a box on your record sheet, not using them is simply a wrong decision. That's another reason that 3039 is the best era, prototype DHS don't go in the engine.
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Sep 5, 2022 05:19
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My favorite 100 ton 'Mech is the Diomede. Because I find it incredibly amusing that the developers cheekily snuck a pair of MML-7s onto an IndustrialMech for 'demolition' purposes
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Sep 5, 2022 05:22
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Defiance Industries posted:The problem isn't with double heat sinks, it's engine double heat sinks. Because you get ten free heat dissipation simply by checking a box on your record sheet, not using them is simply a wrong decision. That's another reason that 3039 is the best era, prototype DHS don't go in the engine. Single heat sinks are boring and lame, the fact that double are better doesn't really matter for whether the heat management aspect is still present in later eras. It definitely is, and 20 free engine heat dissipation instead of 10 is completely irrelevant to that, except in as much as your 'Mech can be much cooler and more dangerous while still overheating in exciting ways.
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Sep 5, 2022 05:54
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What'd be even better is if there was an Inner Sphere-exclusive engine that also provided like 5 free tons of capacity. It'd be nice to have fewer heavy IS 'Mechs that fail to cause PSRs on a typical salvo in medium range brackets
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Sep 5, 2022 06:32
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BattleMaster posted:For every Hellstar there is there are like five dozen weird and janky suboptimal mechs to pick from. There is no end to the weird stuff you can play with if you move beyond intro tech. In fact, if your aim is to try to find good ways to use and play junk designs, there is far more choice. Honestly my preference has always been to just use stock designs as much as possible, with modded versions kind of to a minimum (and I pretty much never do full custom designs unless it's for something I can't find an existing design for that makes sense). I even try to stick to the given configurations for Omnis in the Tech Readouts. Having to deal with the hand you're given is a lot more interesting, and can give some factions some additional flavor (like FedSuns autocannon spam or Marik lasers over PPCs).
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Sep 5, 2022 09:00
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Bottom Liner posted:I picked up the starter set and the clan invasion box at B&N on clearance, should I bother learning the game that way or dive in to the "full" game and which one of those is even the standard mode? This poo poo is daunting! The question is, which starter did you buy? If you bought the most basic box (with 2 plastic mechs), then there's no point in learning that game. It won't be compatible with the Clan Invasion box rules. If you bought "A Game of Armored Combat" then the rules in that box are the real core rules for the game and you don't need to upgrade for awhile. There are two core rulebooks worth mentioning at this point in your journey. Total Warfare and the Battlemech Manual. They have mostly the same mech rules in them, but TW also has tanks and infantry and BMM just has mechs and slightly more mech rules than TW, but nothing essential to the game you'll be missing out on by buying TW. It depends entirely on if you want combined arms or not.
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Sep 5, 2022 10:58
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Atlas Hugged posted:The question is, which starter did you buy? If you bought the most basic box (with 2 plastic mechs), then there's no point in learning that game. It won't be compatible with the Clan Invasion box rules. It’s the bigger set with ~8 mechs. I mostly just want to build some cool army lists and play 2p games with a friend, so it sounds like this and Invasion will be plenty for a while. Thanks for the help!
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Sep 5, 2022 16:17
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Defiance Industries posted:The problem isn't with double heat sinks, it's engine double heat sinks. Because you get ten free heat dissipation simply by checking a box on your record sheet, not using them is simply a wrong decision. That's another reason that 3039 is the best era, prototype DHS don't go in the engine. Yeah, if I could go back to 80-whatever and make DHS outside-engine only or make engines take up more slots with DHS installed it'd be a no-brainer. But the ship has sailed, and the DHS world is waaaay more fun than the SHS world. Gimmie the 3150 oddballs where robots have smatterings of clantech and weirdo systems like Chameleon or Blue Shield
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Sep 5, 2022 16:38
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Ferro-Lamellor armor's real good. A step in the right direction towards balancing weapons.
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Sep 5, 2022 17:13
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It's not that I don't like playing with 3050+ designs. It's just that I prefer sticking to the basics. I like when even most of the optimal designs are pretty janky and busted.
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Sep 5, 2022 18:30
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Out of curiosity is the clan-IS divide as pronounced in Alpha Strike as it is in classic?
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Sep 5, 2022 18:40
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AnEdgelord posted:Out of curiosity is the clan-IS divide as pronounced in Alpha Strike as it is in classic? Alpha Strike has balanced the Clan/IS divide pretty gracefully, because Alpha Strike uses set range brackets (so the Clans don't really have an advantage), weapons don't give any bonuses ToHit, and because a 'mech's structure reduced based on how many of their internals are taken up by ferro/endo/xl engines. So Clan 'Mechs get a big damage bump over their IS counterparts, but are super fragile to compensate. They're also expensive (because the points cost of a unit is determined more by damage potential and speed than armor). As a general rule, IS 'Mechs are chonky and durable and Clan 'Mechs are usually playing rocket tag. Later IS designs that decide they also want to try playing rocket tag are usually good enough at it that sneaking one or two of them into an otherwise beefy force works really well. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Sep 5, 2022 |
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Sep 5, 2022 18:57
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The ilClan era is also pretty good about dealing with the IS/Clan divide, since by that point in the setting, things have become integrated enough that you have IS powers manufacturing clan-spec gear (albiet at a high price tag) and Clan powers using IS equipment (for supply reasons), plus Clan Rich Bitches (Sea Fox) selling stuff to everyone, so you are far more likely to encounter units that use a mixture of both regardless of what side of the conflict they are on.
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Sep 5, 2022 21:08
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PeterWeller posted:It's not that I don't like playing with 3050+ designs. It's just that I prefer sticking to the basics. I like when even most of the optimal designs are pretty janky and busted. Broaden your definition of "optimized" beyond highest number of headcap opportunities per mech and this is true past 3025 too. Honestly every single take about post-3025 by 3025 diehards that isn't "I like a simpler game" sound like they either heard something about it once from someone unhappy and took it as gospel truth, or they've made a decision based entirely on stereotypes.
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Sep 5, 2022 22:25
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FishFood posted:I'm almost done listening to Blood Will Tell and I've liked it a lot so far, partially because it doesn't really have bad guys. If anything, our protagonist Danai is kind of the villain, given how lovely the Confederation is. The book doesn't shy away from portraying that, but also does a good job showing why people would buy into their system. There's a great scene where Danai is touring a hydroelectric dam on Sian and talks to the people who built it and work there. They talk about how proud they are to be a part of something that improves the lives of other people on the planet and it made me kind of emotional which I wasn't expecting from a loving Battletech book. Sounds a lot like Principles of Desolation then, which I think was Jason Schmetzer's first BattleTech book. Only problem both times was the Republic was in the "antagonist" role, even though they weren't really antagonists, they were just in the way of the Capellan invasion and refusing to roll over.
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Sep 5, 2022 23:55
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Bottom Liner posted:It’s the bigger set with ~8 mechs. I mostly just want to build some cool army lists and play 2p games with a friend, so it sounds like this and Invasion will be plenty for a while. Thanks for the help! Yeah you are set for awhile. The rules in that box aren't "simplified" the way they are in the more basic starter: they just don't cover every possible aspect of Battletech the way the full rules do. You'll even be able to add more mechs to it so long as you don't get too fancy with tech. Just look up any mech design you might be interested in to see if it has equipment that your rulebook(s) doesn't cover.
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Sep 6, 2022 00:02
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Sounds a lot like Principles of Desolation then, which I think was Jason Schmetzer's first BattleTech book. Only problem both times was the Republic was in the "antagonist" role, even though they weren't really antagonists, they were just in the way of the Capellan invasion and refusing to roll over. That's ... what an antagonist is. They are the person or force that opposes a protagonist.
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Sep 6, 2022 00:21
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I was going to say, an antagonist doesn't have to be a villain, they're not synonymous. I love a good villain as much as the next person, but they aren't necessary for a good story.
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Sep 6, 2022 00:42
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Strobe posted:Broaden your definition of "optimized" beyond highest number of headcap opportunities per mech and this is true past 3025 too. I dunno, that's not how I define optimized anyway, and I don't think 3050+ gear adds much complexity to the basic game beyond giving you more options. I've been playing on-and-off since TRO3050 was brand new, so I'm not just listening to some grogs' hearsay. TRO3050 and 3055 Clan mechs are my second favorite batch of mechs to play with, but my favorites are OG Inner Sphere mechs with their particular set of foibles.
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Sep 6, 2022 01:02
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Defiance Industries posted:That's ... what an antagonist is. They are the person or force that opposes a protagonist. Yeah, you're right, I was going more for what fishfood meant, villainous versus antagonist. Honestly was rooting for the Capellans to fail in both books, but that wasn't going to happen.
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Sep 6, 2022 02:04
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In the 3100s when the tech bases are mixed, how do they handle IS Mechs with Clan weapons? Are they just extra-expensive, or just handwaved away with "trade/plunder"?
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Sep 6, 2022 06:30
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Clantech is basically all just Star League prototypes that the Clans put their names on. After a hundred years they've built up the infrastructure necessary to produce it. (Naturally it only took Defiance Industries about twenty)
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Sep 6, 2022 07:28
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GD_American posted:In the 3100s when the tech bases are mixed, how do they handle IS Mechs with Clan weapons? Are they just extra-expensive, or just handwaved away with "trade/plunder"? It's a little of A and a little of B. Clantech tends to be more expensive, either because they need specialized materials/factories to make or because getting the actual technical knowhow tends to be very hard and costly because the Clans aren't overly eager to trade that knowledge (though I do recall one TRO mentioning a company being initially reluctant to work for the Clans until they offered to share the specs for Clantech Gauss Rifles, for example) and Reverse Engineering is expensive, and for any faction that has no, or limited ability to produce their own, they often have to resort to trading with Clan Sea Fox to get what they need. The IS would probably be further along, but a bunch of Crazy Phoneline Operators with Guns and a Cargo Cult Religion decided to wake up one morning and choose violence.
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Sep 6, 2022 11:44
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GD_American posted:In the 3100s when the tech bases are mixed, how do they handle IS Mechs with Clan weapons? Are they just extra-expensive, or just handwaved away with "trade/plunder"? A big part of it is less its 'clan tech' and more that a piece of equipment is built to 'clan specifications'. They need certain equipment/material/conditions to build a clan spec piece of equipment that makes it costs way more than building it to IS spec. Naturally this means its still limited because supplying armed forces is not about having the best gear but the most mass producible and cost effective.
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Sep 6, 2022 23:59
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It should be noted the fiction has not been entirely consistent with the tech levels. A lot of Dark Age fiction made the point that the Inner Sphere basically had access to plenty of Clan-spec tech, and that the only thing the Clans had as an advantage was their training regimens/not demilitarizing as much as the IS (Also, Warships). Then when Catalyst took over, you started seeing the more muddled "okay so sometimes IS powers have access to Clan tech, sometimes they don't". At least that's the impression I've gotten.
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Sep 7, 2022 14:22
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Crazy Joe Wilson posted:It should be noted the fiction has not been entirely consistent with the tech levels. A lot of Dark Age fiction made the point that the Inner Sphere basically had access to plenty of Clan-spec tech, and that the only thing the Clans had as an advantage was their training regimens/not demilitarizing as much as the IS (Also, Warships). Then when Catalyst took over, you started seeing the more muddled "okay so sometimes IS powers have access to Clan tech, sometimes they don't". At least that's the impression I've gotten. I feel it's less the actual factions and more the manufacturers for said factions. I'm sure if, say, the FedSuns had their way, every manufacturer would have a primer on 'how to build Clan-spec XL Engines', but corporations being corporations, they jealously guard every technological advancement they can from the competition while engaging in massive corporate espionage schemes to steal their opponent's secrets. Thus a given faction might only have a few sites belonging to a few companies capable of manufacturing a certain item because REEEEEEEEE STAY AWAY FROM MUH PROFITS.
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Sep 7, 2022 14:48
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I could see them rebranding Clantech as something like C31 Tech to differentiate
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Sep 7, 2022 14:59
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Inner Sphere warfare also (historically) targets production sites and infrastructure in a way that Clan warfare doesn't. If you're a Clan you just trial your opponent for control of their sweet XXL engine factory. If you're Inner Sphere you blow it up (or, earlier, nuke it). This means that the infrastructure required to make Clantech may be intrinsically more vulnerable in the Inner Sphere, since a lot of it depends on space-based manufacturing. You might not want to pin your logistics on stuff you can only get from a few relatively vulnerable factories an opponent like the Blakists would happily sabotage or outright destroy.
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Sep 7, 2022 15:47
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I'd just like to say I've been working my way through Redemption Rites and I'm really liking it. The Clan Protectorate playing both sides in the FWL-Wolf war also makes more sense now. Glad when novels explain what sourcebooks just list. Also, I have the Black Marauder short story collections coming. Looking forward to some BattleTech Horror fiction.
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Sep 7, 2022 17:54
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GD_American posted:I could see them rebranding Clantech as something like C31 Tech to differentiate DI's Clan lasers follow their standard naming conventions but use a C (so the ER LL is a Defiance C9L) so you may be on to something
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Sep 7, 2022 18:39
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I vote we start calling IS-made Clan-spec weapons 'Blamtech'
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Sep 8, 2022 13:26
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Played my first ever proper game of BT yesterday! My opponent was a 30-year veteran. Real nice guy and we’ll be playing more. I took Blackjack/Battlemaster/Thunderbolt while my opponent went with Charger CGR-1A5/Catapult/Hunchback. Thundebolt delivered, Battlemaster slightly underperformed, Blackjack served the role I’d envisioned for it (eat the Catapult LRMs while the big boys handle the real business). My veteran opponent threw very poorly including losing nearly all initiative rolls and failing a number of PSRs on the Charger. The Battlemaster kicked it in the leg and then it basically spent the rest of the game sitting on its rear end and getting kicked a bunch by the BM and Thunderbolt. Boy did it soak up some damage, though.  Later I was able to blast off Catapult’s LRMs and one leg and that was basically it. With the Charger gone, the Catapult essentially crippled and my BM and TB still in decent health my opponent conceded defeat  I had a bunch of fun and several rules I’d misunderstood or just not read well enough are now clear. Also, I really like how 80% of the game revolves around movement, facing, distance and target priority - it’s all about responding to the situation and trying to get the most out of your mechs at that moment. Wanna play more!
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Sep 8, 2022 17:09
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