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Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

i wanna see chuchu knock someone the gently caress out

Judging by her character profile, we can at least be reassured that that's a 'when' question rather than an 'if' one.

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ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Can Chuchu Panlunch defeat Biscuit Kruger?

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

ImpAtom posted:

Can Chuchu Panlunch defeat Biscuit Kruger?

Probably she’s a pilot while he was support

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



MonsterEnvy posted:

Probably she’s a pilot while he was support

That's Biscuit Griffon. Biscuit Kruger is from Hunter X Hunter. (And in hand to hand, Biscuit would probably demolish Chu Chu when he was alive. We see in "Brother" that his bulk isn't fat. Dude's got the Wilson Fisk diet going on.)

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010



Bloody Pom posted:

That is a very big gun for such a skinny-looking MS. I approve.

The actual gunpla makes it look pretty chunky. Looks good!

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012

Cao Ni Ma posted:

The actual gunpla makes it look pretty chunky. Looks good!

The Gunpla also confirms that it has a fully-articulated robotic penis that it uses to steady its gun in combat. Nika's engineering style is... unique.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

chiasaur11 posted:

That's Biscuit Griffon. Biscuit Kruger is from Hunter X Hunter. (And in hand to hand, Biscuit would probably demolish Chu Chu when he was alive. We see in "Brother" that his bulk isn't fat. Dude's got the Wilson Fisk diet going on.)

Chu chu would win because her anime will actually have an ending.

muike
Mar 16, 2011

ガチムチ セブン

Darth Walrus posted:

The Gunpla also confirms that it has a fully-articulated robotic penis that it uses to steady its gun in combat. Nika's engineering style is... unique.

tell me you've never worshiped the ex-s before without telling me you've never worshiped the ex-s before

Arc Hammer
Mar 4, 2013

Got any deathsticks?

Gaius Marius posted:

Chu chu would win because her anime will actually have an ending.

I want her to have a freight train sound effect whenever she charges another suit. Choo Choo spacian motherfuckers!

Bloody Pom
Jun 5, 2011



Darth Walrus posted:

The Gunpla also confirms that it has a fully-articulated robotic penis that it uses to steady its gun in combat. Nika's engineering style is... unique.

Holy poo poo. It's a mecha-sized M56 Smartgun :hellyeah:

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



Bloody Pom posted:

Holy poo poo. It's a mecha-sized M56 Smartgun :hellyeah:

"You always were an rear end in a top hat, Chu Chu."

(Also, the discussion of Biscuit Griffon made me remember that he's got basically the same proportions as Ryu Jose. It's just that he's surrounded by the NBA All Stars, so he looks short and wide rather than massive.)

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

chiasaur11 posted:

"You always were an rear end in a top hat, Chu Chu."

(Also, the discussion of Biscuit Griffon made me remember that he's got basically the same proportions as Ryu Jose. It's just that he's surrounded by the NBA All Stars, so he looks short and wide rather than massive.)

Mika and Atra were NBA All-Stars? Well, maybe Mika was back in the 1940s, when basketball was quite a different game.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



tsob posted:

Mika and Atra were NBA All-Stars? Well, maybe Mika was back in the 1940s, when basketball was quite a different game.

Mikazuki was a last minute substitution after the regular player for the position came down with an unexpected case of bullet to the kneecap.

Bloody Pom
Jun 5, 2011



tsob posted:

Mika and Atra were NBA All-Stars? Well, maybe Mika was back in the 1940s, when basketball was quite a different game.

Severe childhood malnutrition will do that to you, Mika just makes up for the height disparity by being absolutely yoked. Kid can out-pullup even Space Guts.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

Waffleman_ posted:

^ Harry Potter did not invent school houses

Oh, I know. It's based on the sociopathic british school system, which apparently Rowling wa snostalgic for.

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004

Bloody Pom posted:

Severe childhood malnutrition will do that to you, Mika just makes up for the height disparity by being absolutely yoked. Kid can out-pullup even Space Guts.

I mean he’s got more to pull up so

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"
Jeturk House?

More like Jerk House! :smuggo:

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
wait a second. wfm is set in space, and chuchu is a ms pilot. how does she get a helmet on?

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

wait a second. wfm is set in space, and chuchu is a ms pilot. how does she get a helmet on?

Her helmet has special holes

super-redguy
Jan 24, 2019

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

wait a second. wfm is set in space, and chuchu is a ms pilot. how does she get a helmet on?

Same way as Cosmo.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

wait a second. wfm is set in space, and chuchu is a ms pilot. how does she get a helmet on?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJP_8T1YPGI

Any questions?

grassy gnoll
Aug 27, 2006

The pawsting business is tough work.
Chuchu seems neat but that name makes me have chair-related flashbacks.

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012




Yes! Several!

Meanwhile, in the waiting, I decided to see what the odds were of a Gundam show or film being good over the decades.

I already ran the numbers for the 2012-2022 era (75 good hours, 69 bad hours, and 6.5 hours of G-Reco), so I went back further to break it down decade by decade. There's a few small things (like ZZ Frag) left off here, including all the compilation films, and a few things more I couldn't decide on, mostly due to lack of experience, but it's a start, at least. (A likely contentious start.)

Time is divided into "episodes" to ballpark runtime. It's cheating, but it gets things done faster.

1972-1982:
Mobile Suit Gundam: 43 episodes, good.


In terms of percentages, we're starting off strong at 100 percent good Gundam. It's a logical product of limited selection, but the original show is still one of the best. With great characters, clever plots, and an astonishingly low budget, Gundam's run for the first listed decade of its existence was a winner, only partially due to not existing for the bulk of the decade.

It's all downhill from here.

1982-1992:
Zeta Gundam: 50 episodes, good
ZZ Gundam: 47 episodes, bad
Char's Counterattack: 4 episodes, good
SD Gundam: 5 episodes, bad (categorized individually, some would be good, but going episode by episode makes this even more maddening, so I'm skipping out on that particular complication. )
SD Gundam Gaiden: 4 episodes, bad
War in the Pocket: 6 episodes, excellent
F91: 2 hours, bad
Stardust Memories: 13 episodes, bad.

Total: 133 episodes. 45 percent good, 55 percent bad.

I'll admit right now, there's a lot here that I could be swayed on. If watching or rewatching more ZZ and Stardust sells me on them, this could quite easily pivot over to a positive. There's a lot of good Gundam here, even with how hard an act to follow the original was, but a lot of the SD stuff was painful, and F91 just doesn't come together, despite its many virtues.

Gundam was all UC and SD in those days, and almost all Tomino. That wouldn't last.

1992-2002:
Victory Gundam: 51 episodes, bad
G Gundam: 49 episodes, good
Gundam Wing: 49 episodes, bad
08th MS team: 12 episodes, good
Gundam X: 39 episodes, bad
Endless Waltz: 3 episodes, bad
Turn A Gundam: 50 episodes, good
Gundam Evolve: 7.5 episodes, good.

Total: 260 episodes (rounding). 45 percent good, 55 percent bad.

Look, sometimes you gotta shoot from the hip, even if the decisions seem arbitrary. This decade wound up about the same as the last one. Some great stuff, some bad stuff, a lot of weird stuff, and even most of the stuff I think isn't good is at least interesting, with G and Wing showing that Gundam could have mainstream success even without Tomino (which was good, because he needed some distance to clear his head enough for Turn A).

Unfortunately, the worst was yet to come.

2002-2012:
Gundam SEED: 50 episodes, bad
SD Gundam Force: 52 episodes, bad
IGLOO: 9 episodes, bad
SEED Destiny: 50 episodes, bad
Stargazer: 3 episodes, good
Gundam 00: 50 episodes, good
SD Gundam Sangokuden: 52 episodes, ???
Awakening of the trailblazer: 4 episodes, bad
Builders Beginning G: 3 episodes, bad

273 episodes. 19 percent good. 62 percent bad. Even if Sangokuden is, unlike every other SD show I've watched, excellent, it's not enough to save the decade. Between Gundam SEED's main run and 00's weaker back half (saved by an excellent final episode, and condemned by the movie), it was a rough time to be a Gundam fan, especially since my arbitrary cutoffs and dividing lines leave out Unicorn for (ugh) IGLOO as the only UC content. It was a dark time. And it was about to lead into AGE.

Fortunately for everyone, Unicorn was also starting off. Love it or hate it, it provided a massive boost to Bandai's financials, keeping Gundam in good shape for Build, Origins, Iron Blooded Orphans, G-Reco, and all the other films, shows, and shorts that filled the last decade. I already summed it up, but to keep it quick...

2012-2022:
314 episodes. 47 percent good. 44 percent bad. More Gundam content than ever came out in the last decade, and (on average) it was better than it had been in a long time. Sure, there was a lot of dire stuff (Build Divers, AGE, SD Gundam World Heroes, SD Gundam Sangoku Soketsuden...) but there was a lot of good too, including two of the best Gundam movies in theaters, and a surprisingly decent net drama (which, like G-Savior, is not counted here). Witch will either close out the era in glory or ring in the new to a dire tone, but, on the whole, the cliche is true. It's a good time to be a Gundam fan.

...But that means we need to sum things up.
1,023 episodes. (Or about 500 hours, give or take. Mostly take.)
51 percent bad.
42 percent good.

...So, on average, Gundam isn't very good, and hasn't been since 1992. But there's so much Gundam, there's going to be something to like, and probably a lot of somethings. Life is about risk, and if you can't take a SD Gundam Gaiden from time to time, you'll never get to enjoy a Hathaway.

And hey, everyone's got different tastes. Maybe you'll like Wing overall, or think ZZ's neat, or love X enough to not mind the initial formula and the weak main villains. There's no one right way to like Gundam, and as long as you're getting something out of it (even amusement at how bad a show is) then it's worth the hassle.

...Also, excluding SD Gundam means that Gundam is 55 percent good. So maybe the moral of this story is just to not watch SD Gundam.

tsob
Sep 26, 2006

Chalalala~

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

wait a second. wfm is set in space, and chuchu is a ms pilot. how does she get a helmet on?

She undoes her...braids? Same as anyone with long hair putting on a helm of any kind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnoG0P2KZ0w

Hair is really deformable.

War and Pieces
Apr 24, 2022

DID NOT VOTE FOR FETTERMAN
Did you just say Victory Gundam was bad?? Say that again and I'll decapitate your mother with a motorcycle

super-redguy
Jan 24, 2019

Methodology and taste in Gundam aside, I think the biggest thing -- which is also "yeah, there's probably a Gundam for everyone" -- is that even respective Gundam shows are lands of contrast, with ups and downs in quality. Like I think there's a good middle stretch of Zeta that's kinda boring, ZZ's Dublin Arc is some peak Gundam, and I think everything in Destiny up to around Break the World is actually pretty good. And even some of the bad Gundams have a lot of good points or fun casts or great sequences (everybody loves the Freedom reappearing over Orb in SEED, iconic moment). I also do respect what Victory was trying to say even if Tomino kneecapped himself in the process.

Just gotta approach Gundam with a clear mind and see what vibes and what doesn't vibe with you. Whether it's good or not doesn't really matter and at the end of the day you just gotta enjoy the stuff you wanna enjoy, drop the stuff you don't like, et cetera et cetera. Big franchise with uneven batting average, after all.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

wait a second. wfm is set in space, and chuchu is a ms pilot. how does she get a helmet on?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Dxym0Mw58

chiasaur11
Oct 22, 2012



super-redguy posted:

Just gotta approach Gundam with a clear mind and see what vibes and what doesn't vibe with you. Whether it's good or not doesn't really matter and at the end of the day you just gotta enjoy the stuff you wanna enjoy, drop the stuff you don't like, et cetera et cetera. Big franchise with uneven batting average, after all.

Massive. (Which is part of why it's so uneven)

The closest competition for Gundam, Macross, has under 200 episodes in total. Gundam's managed more than that in the last ten years. And depending on how you feel about 7, Macross could be argued to have the worse batting average of the two.

It's not surprising that a lot of Gundam isn't to everyone's taste. It's more surprising just how much has been successful to wildly successful.

(The original, Zeta, ZZ, Char's Counterattack, Wing, G, SEED, SEED Destiny, 00, Build Fighters, Iron Blooded Orphans, Unicorn, Hathaway...)

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

chiasaur11 posted:

Massive. (Which is part of why it's so uneven)

The closest competition for Gundam, Macross, has under 200 episodes in total. Gundam's managed more than that in the last ten years. And depending on how you feel about 7, Macross could be argued to have the worse batting average of the two.

It's not surprising that a lot of Gundam isn't to everyone's taste. It's more surprising just how much has been successful to wildly successful.

(The original, Zeta, ZZ, Char's Counterattack, Wing, G, SEED, SEED Destiny, 00, Build Fighters, Iron Blooded Orphans, Unicorn, Hathaway...)

I don't think you can really measure Gundam as a whole averaged-out Thing tbh; There's no consistency between project leads, or even the writing/tone/etc, so you can only really judge them on their own individual works. A good episode of Build Fighters isn't the same as a good episode of Iron Blooded Orphans, for example.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007
the only consistent element is a piloted mech with a v-fin, and even for that there are exceptions.

Cleretic
Feb 3, 2010


Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!
Yeah, judging Gundam as a whole isn't like judging a lot of western franchises as a whole, because Gundam is so much more willing than all of them to just take a big, weird, disconnected swing and do something completely new with the franchise.

The closest is maybe something like the Justice League, which has also gone in a bunch of weird directions over the years, but even there it holds so much to its core that the deviations are the exception; it's very rare indeed that there's a Superman story that completely redefines the entire concept of 'Superman'. Meanwhile Gundam's become really known for not bothering to stick to that gospel of Gundam being the UC in/around the One Year War.

super-redguy
Jan 24, 2019

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

the only consistent element is a piloted mech with a v-fin, and even for that there are exceptions.

The real consistent element is that every time I watch a Gundam I feel the urge to shell out money for model kits.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

wait a second. wfm is set in space, and chuchu is a ms pilot. how does she get a helmet on?

She could always Char it and not wear a helmet.

Cao Ni Ma
May 25, 2010



grassy gnoll posted:

Chuchu seems neat but that name makes me have chair-related flashbacks.

Tales of Woe
Dec 18, 2004

if people really think X is bad then i guess i do have to try victory and seed and age to make sure im not missing anything, since i thought X was like, blatantly very good

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

x has some pacing issues and kinda weak villains but the villains being weak feels like its partly the point

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Tales of Woe posted:

if people really think X is bad then i guess i do have to try victory and seed and age to make sure im not missing anything, since i thought X was like, blatantly very good

SEED is okay-to-decent, SEED Destiny is where it goes down the toilet.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012

Tales of Woe posted:

if people really think X is bad then i guess i do have to try victory and seed and age to make sure im not missing anything, since i thought X was like, blatantly very good

Everyone's tastes are going to be different and they'll latch onto different series really hard. X has really had it's ups and downs in terms of how much the general fandom has liked it, but it's fallen pretty far in people estimation as newer series have come out and people have put less stock in how Gundam could've been saved in the west if they'd aired X instead of MSG.

Endorph posted:

x has some pacing issues and kinda weak villains but the villains being weak feels like its partly the point

Eh, an ineffectual villain doesn't have to be a boring villain and X is filled with boring villains. The Frost's get the most criticism for being the final bosses, but the minor villains are also exceptionally bad. Nobody is going to bat for Bloodman or whoever the SRA guy is. They don't really have the weird quirks that Tomino would give them like M'Quve's obsession with vases and Kycillia, or the weird psychological hangups that Ramba Ral, Scirocco, or Char have, or even the over the topness that Treize or Azreal have. They're just kind of there

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

i would take bloodman over paptimus tbh in that at least he doesnt chew through half the female cast like a paper shredder

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

gimme the GOD drat candy posted:

wait a second. wfm is set in space, and chuchu is a ms pilot. how does she get a helmet on?

https://twitter.com/lowproteinhighf/status/1566385853580312577/photo/1

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