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So to be clear, there were already young boys on board?
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Sep 4, 2022 12:53
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I mean getting all those explosives inside the boy without anybody noticing was pretty impressive. I like to think I'd have noticed if my family members were ticking like cartoon clocks, or had Semtex earrings & lit sticks of dynamite in their ears or whatever.
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Sep 4, 2022 12:54
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so I could say that I finally figured out what this god damned cube is doing. Get well Lowtax.
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HopperUK posted:That's a horrible joke considering children died in that explosion. Imperialist ghoul tried using children as human shield
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Sep 4, 2022 14:46
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H2Eau posted:What the gently caress?! I'm Tasmanian and don't think I've ever heard about this. Have you got any more details?? Unfortunately no - he died a good fifteen years back and the memory is pretty hazy. I’ll have a dig about in case my people still have his sons number though.
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Sep 4, 2022 15:18
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Rascar Capac posted:The answer is it took a lot of work. It's worth remembering that Jeffrey Epstein was also from a working class background, and was able to become even more important. Yeah I think it's useful for these high level creeps to have a hungry fixer like Epstein or Savile, someone whose power and influence is contingent on their serving their betters. They'll never give up the game as long as their status depends on it.
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Sep 4, 2022 16:51
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HopperUK posted:That's a horrible joke considering children died in that explosion.
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Sep 4, 2022 17:17
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Less bloodlust for (alive or alrady deceased) children in this thread please thank you
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Sep 4, 2022 17:28
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Terrible Opinions posted:Tragic in the same way Goebbels' children's deaths were. Just out of curiosity how responsible do you believe the 4 year old was for the crimes of Nazi Germany?
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Sep 4, 2022 20:44
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Terrible Opinions posted:Tragic in the same way Goebbels' children's deaths were. You believe that children are responsible for the crimes of their fathers?
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Sep 4, 2022 20:49
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Terrible Opinions posted:Tragic in the same way Goebbels' children's deaths were. ...very? Exactly how much control over the actions and character of Nazi Germany do you think children younger than preschool-age have? Ravenfood has a new favorite as of 20:55 on Sep 4, 2022 |
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Sep 4, 2022 20:53
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Ravenfood posted:...very? Exactly how much control over the actions and character of Nazi Germany do you think children younger than preschool-age are? To be fair, the oldest one was 12, so in the spirit of compromise, I'm willing to reframe my question, so he only has to answer how the oldest one was complicit.
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Sep 4, 2022 20:54
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The Saddest Rhino posted:Less bloodlust for (alive or alrady deceased) children in this thread please thank you Where do undead children fall on this spectrum? Are they fair game?
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Sep 4, 2022 21:37
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worst thing about saville was the whole media timeline of - oh hey now he's dead we can finally talk about how saville had been noncing kids dead or alive for years with the explicit knowledge and assistance of at least dozens of people - this was the case because a large proportion of celebrities and related jobs were also active paedophiles/complicit in enabling abuse and a bunch are still alive/powerful/active - heh oh and politicians too, and there's little reason to think anything changed - dont worry though cause there will be an extensive investigation into establishment and media paedophile rings that would never get sidelined, buried utterly and forgotten about like it didn't exist - *sudden and absolute unerring silence on that particular issue forevermore* there was a vanishingly quick peek behind the curtain but that was it, like ghislane maxwell who is gonna go down for selling kids to loving nobody, don't ask about that DesperateDan has a new favorite as of 22:01 on Sep 4, 2022 |
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Sep 4, 2022 21:59
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Kruger made a joke in poor taste but the attack was absolutely justified considering how many millions of children in the third world the British Empire and the royal family of which Mountbatten was a part of murdered and starved (including my own ancestors), they're just more of an unnamed mass of brown people so posters cant feel as "icky" about that.
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Sep 4, 2022 22:00
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spincube posted:I mean getting all those explosives inside the boy without anybody noticing was pretty impressive. I like to think I'd have noticed if my family members were ticking like cartoon clocks, or had Semtex earrings & lit sticks of dynamite in their ears or whatever. Mr Kojima, please, calm down
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Sep 4, 2022 22:58
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christmas boots posted:Just out of curiosity how responsible do you believe the 4 year old was for the crimes of Nazi Germany?
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Sep 4, 2022 23:03
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Punkin Spunkin posted:Kruger made a joke in poor taste but the attack was absolutely justified considering how many millions of children in the third world the British Empire and the royal family of which Mountbatten was a part of murdered and starved (including my own ancestors), they're just more of an unnamed mass of brown people so posters cant feel as "icky" about that. Your insinuation here that as one of the people who objected to the joke, I feel 'less icky' about a genocide than I do about the murder of some posh children, is pretty loving gross. That's without getting into the issue of whether the murder of innocents is ever 'justified' which I think is an arguable point. I am from an Irish family, my father was sent to England when he was 16 to get him away from the IRA recruiters. 'My ancestors' were also victim to British-led genocide and oppression. There is no need whatsoever to suggest that the reason someone feels those kids shouldn't have been killed is that they don't care about 'a mass of brown people'.
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Sep 4, 2022 23:31
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Terrible Opinions posted:Not responsible at all, same as Mountbatten's grandkids. It's a tragedy but one entirely of their parent's making. In each case they were among the last victims of their mass murdering relatives. Fair enough I thought you were going a different direction with that one
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Sep 5, 2022 00:01
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HopperUK posted:That's without getting into the issue of whether the murder of innocents is ever 'justified' which I think is an arguable point.  (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 5, 2022 00:06
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What the gently caress is wrong with all of you? Quit it.
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Sep 5, 2022 03:02
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DesperateDan posted:worst thing about saville was the whole media timeline of An overarching panel inquiry was announced by the Home Secretary, Theresa May, in July 2014, to examine how the country's institutions had handled their duty of care to protect children from sexual abuse.[161] It was to be led by an independent panel of experts, and was to be chaired by Baroness Butler-Sloss. On 14 July it was announced that Baroness Butler-Sloss was standing down, and that a new chair would be appointed.[162] On 5 September it was announced that it would be chaired by Fiona Woolf[163] but on 31 October 2014 she too resigned from the role.[164] On 4 February 2015 May announced that the inquiry would be chaired by Justice Lowell Goddard, a New Zealand High Court judge, and would be given new powers as a statutory inquiry.[165] Dame Goddard resigned the chair of the Inquiry on 4 August 2016
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Sep 5, 2022 07:55
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Lampsacus posted:An overarching panel inquiry was announced by the Home Secretary, Theresa May, in July 2014, to examine how the country's institutions had handled their duty of care to protect children from sexual abuse.[161] It was to be led by an independent panel of experts, and was to be chaired by Baroness Butler-Sloss. Repeated discoveries of conflict of interest when friends and family members came up in the investigation. Maybe I'm being cynical about an inquiry into sex trafficking among the most powerful people in the world, but it seems like maybe the aristocracy shouldn't be investigating itself.
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Sep 5, 2022 08:55
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BrianRx posted:Repeated discoveries of conflict of interest when friends and family members came up in the investigation. That is not very British of you, friend
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Sep 5, 2022 10:54
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HopperUK posted:That is not very British of you, friend Good news, with the beggaring of British institutions, there will no longer BE a market for child sex trafficking!
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Sep 5, 2022 12:13
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Good to learn many goons think it was a necessary, perhaps even cool, act to throw my 4-year-old grandma into a concentration camp because France had a colonial empire at the time. drat posh kids. I ain't shedding tears. I am very woke.
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Sep 5, 2022 15:56
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what the gently caress are you talking about
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Sep 5, 2022 16:30
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Let's just drop any more insinuations of children being guilty or deserving death for being born into the wrong family, please.
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Sep 5, 2022 17:20
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In an attempt to move on, I highly recommend the book Five Days At Memorial if you want well-researched insight into how absolutely awful Katrina was. In particular it talks about Dr Anna Pou, who may or may not have administered lethal doses of morphine, midazolam, and lorazepam to patients who they did not think they could evacuate. As someone who's worked in medicine it's deeply disturbing, because the systemic failures (e.g., the emergency generators were in the basement, which promptly flooded) set up a situation in which there was no good option. Temperatures within the building were up to 110°, and there was no electricity for days, meaning vent-dependent patients needed someone to breathe for them using a bag. So many things could have been prevented with better planning but weren't, and the result was a nightmare scenario.
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Sep 5, 2022 17:25
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Whoa As a lurker of this thread I am suddenly unnerved
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Sep 5, 2022 20:05
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TorpedoFish posted:In an attempt to move on, I highly recommend the book Five Days At Memorial if you want well-researched insight into how absolutely awful Katrina was. seconding this.
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Sep 6, 2022 01:11
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just loving lmao if your forebearers didn't endure unspeakable trauma exclusively to provide a cudgel for use in online arguments
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Sep 6, 2022 02:41
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Samovar posted:Good news, with the beggaring of British institutions, there will no longer BE a market for child sex trafficking! The Ministry of Buggery
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Sep 6, 2022 20:19
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a mysterious cloak posted:The Ministry of Buggery The Department of Diddling.
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Sep 6, 2022 20:37
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An interview from 2012 with Issei Sagawa, a Japanese cannibal that murdered and ate a Dutch student when they where both studying in France in the 80's, he walked free after a couple of years in a mental institution due to a legal technicality when they moved him back to Japan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BosZxa1bYcE Video does contain some   pictures in black and white, a cut up and dismembered body of the woman in question, it's short flashes but be warned.
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Sep 6, 2022 21:13
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Jesus christ thread. I'm setting status to "researching a topic" just to see about pulling up from a wild nosedive.
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Sep 6, 2022 21:45
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Droogie posted:Jesus christ thread. Help us, Droogie-wan Kenobi; you’re our only hope!
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Sep 6, 2022 23:31
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Regarding nosedives, fuselage is an inherently unnerving word for me because I only see it in context of something terrible happening to it and the people inside
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Sep 7, 2022 09:23
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Busket Posket posted:Help us, Droogie-wan Kenobi; you’re our only hope! I was excited to see a flurry of posts after returning from a forums hiatus and then immediately disappointed with the discussion. So I guess congrats? It made me start thinking about an idea I had that spans archeological drama and several modern deaths. I actually submitted a couple of FOIA requests for this one. I've never done that before. So we'll see how long a giant but mostly rural county takes to field that. Be the change and all that.
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Sep 7, 2022 18:32
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Okay here's an actual effort post, because I don't think we've talked about the world's worst-ever industrial disaster here! I'm not as good a writer as Droogie but hopefully this is soul-crushing enough. The bad guy is capitalism of course Bhopal is a city in Madhya Pradesh, in central India. Today it’s one of the cleanest, greenest cities in India, and with a population of nearly 2 million, it’s in the top 20 largest. It’s an industrial city, and several large multinationals have manufacturing plants there. One company which no longer has a presence in Bhopal is Union Carbide. Union Carbide (UCC) was founded in 1917, and today is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Dow Chemical. Throughout their history they’ve mined and manufactured and refined all sorts of chemicals. Through industrial success and acquiring other companies, UCC became a very large company, and at one point in the 90s, it was almost certain you had something their commercial divisions made, including plastic bags and batteries. Union Carbide India Limited (UCIL) was founded in 1934 and was majority owned by UC. In 1969 they built a factory in Bhopal to make Sevin, a pesticide. Disclaimer: My background is in public health, not chemistry, so I can talk about things which are really bad for you, but can’t really talk about exactly why. Regardless, Sevin (like most chemical pesticides) isn’t very healthy for humans. Today it’s been identified as a likely human carcinogen in the US. It’s banned in the EU. It’s a cholinesterase inhibitor, a class of chemicals which have several uses including pesticides, a few anti-Alzheimers drugs, and also biochemical weapons such as VX and Novichok. By the time the factory was built, the dangers of Sevin, many of the chemicals used to make it, and some of the byproducts of the manufacturing process were undeniably known.  One of the chemicals used to create Sevin is methyl isocyanate (MIC). To make it, first you take phosgene, which was used as a chemical weapon in WWI and killed tens of thousands of people. Now get some monomethylamine – that’s what Walter White used to cook meth in Breaking Bad. Mix them together and you get MIC. If you have a body made of flesh, MIC is very bad news. It’s extremely toxic, and it’s the sort of toxin where once it’s in you, the only treatment is supportive care and maybe somehow you’ll survive, but if you get a high dose, it’s almost certainly fatal. It’s extremely irritating so if exposed, your eyes will burn and water at about 2 PPM. If you breathe in that concentration you’ll probably experience chest pain, coughing, asthma-like airway constriction, and irritation to the skin and mucous membranes (which is all of you). You will be having a very bad time. At higher concentrations, about 20 PPM, you’ll start getting a buildup of fluid in your lungs as the tissues get damaged. Your lungs may start to bleed. The tiny little alveoli in your lungs, where oxygen and carbon dioxide are actually exchanged, will start to break down, filling with fluid and collapsing. When this happens, you cannot breathe, and when you cannot breathe, you die. There were a handful of fatalities from exposure at the plant in the first decade of operation, and by the early 80s, at least one local journalist was publishing warnings about the potential for a large-scale disaster. Nothing changed, and there were more fatalities and repeated chemical leaks in the first few years of the 1980s. By 1984 there were 3 underground storage tanks holding MIC at the Bhopal plant. Each was certified to safely hold 30 tons of MIC, which left the tank half-empty. The remainder of the tank was filled with nitrogen, which kept impurities out of the tank and kept the tanks pressurized so MIC could be easily pumped out. The safety issues continued. In October of 84, one of the three MIC tanks (E610) failed and was no longer able to properly keep proper pressure. There were 42 tons of MIC in E610 when it failed, and without the proper pressurization, none of that could be pumped out of the tank. Another maintenance failure around that time was that of the flare tower, which burned off excess gasses. Throughout November there was a production shutdown to try and address maintenance and safety issues, but ultimately production restarted without meaningful repairs. E610 remained full of 42 tons of MIC, and the flare tower remained inoperative. Staff reported that many safety systems didn’t work, pipes were corroded, air scrubbers were off-line, and a steam boiler used to clean the pipes was inoperative. It’s not 100% clear what happened, but on the night of December 2, 1984, water was introduced into tank E610. Thus began an exothermic reaction between the MIC, the water, and various contaminants from damaged and ill-maintained pipes. By 11 PM, the pressure inside E610 reached 10 PSI. Multiple employees saw that, noted it, and dismissed it as a faulty gauge. By 11:30, some workers were beginning to feel the irritating effects of MIC, and started looking for a leak. One small leak was found around 11:45. The supervisor on duty instructed the employees to keep looking, and said that it would be addressed at 12:30 or so, after their break. At 12:40 AM, the pressure in the tank was about 40 PSI. One employee witnessed a concrete slab above the top shatter as a relief valve blew. The pressure in the tank continued to increase, up to 55 PSI. An alarm was sounded at 12:50 AM. The plant had two separate siren systems: one was internal to the plant, for employee safety, and the other facing the town of Bhopal to warn residents of any hazards. The two systems were not linked. The public-facing siren was sounded briefly and then, as the plant had always done in the case of previous leaks, turned off to avoid spreading panic. The plant was soon evacuated with employees moving upwind of the plant – away from the city of Bhopal. By about 1:30 AM, roughly 30 tons of MIC were released into the air and blown downwind towards Bhopal. At 1 AM, residents of a nearby suburb contacted the police to report some sort of chemical leak. The police contacted the plant at about 1:20, and were told that everything was fine. At about 2:10, with more and more toxic gas filling the air, the police again called the plant, and they were told by the few staff who remained on-site that they didn’t know what was going on. A hospital in the city contacted the plant and was told that the leak was ammonia. Then they were told that it was phosgene. Then they were told, in as many words, that it was “MIC”. The hospital staff had no idea what MIC was, nor what to do about it, and by now you may be seeing a trend in the helpfulness of the plant operators. The leak slowed and then stopped around 2 AM. At about 2:30 AM, the public-facing siren finally sounded properly, 90 minutes after the internal siren had alerted employees to the danger. By that point, most residents of Bhopal were well aware that there was a leak, because they had begun to feel the effects. Many woke up coughing with their face and throat and nose stinging. They began to have abdominal pain and vomiting. The faster they tried to run from the toxic cloud, the more they inhaled. MIC is twice as heavy as air and the air was thick and clouded with it. Children inhaled more of the gas than their parents. People began dying within minutes encountering the substance, and within hours the streets of Bhopal, particularly the slums closest to the factory, were covered in bodies. Babies. Children. Adults. Grandparents. It’s estimated that at least 3,800 died in those first hours, in their homes or in the streets, trying to escape. Some people never even woke up; others were overcome and died literally running for their lives. Choking on their own fluids, coughing up blood, unable to see through their own tears, people fell dead. The number of people who died is a matter of considerable debate: UCC put their damage control team into action immediately and even today there’s no consensus. The Indian government believes that at least half a million people were exposed to the gas, including 200,000 children. At least 170,000 people sought treatment in the surrounding hospitals during the disaster. Conservative estimates put the total deaths due to the accident at 10,000; many say it is more like 15,000. Hundreds of thousands of people were eventually compensated by the Indian government for injuries. It’s impossible to know how many lives were cut short and how many lives were irreversibly damaged. There was a delay in closing the plant, as the only safe way to get rid of the remaining MIC on site was to process it into the end product. This was done under government supervision and with the city evacuated on December 18, and then production ceased. The plant was officially closed by the state government in July of 1985, and UCIL began some halfhearted cleanup efforts, which they would engage in on-and-off for the next nine years. In 1994, Union Carbide sold its majority share of UCIL to another company, which renamed UCIL Eveready Industries, and continued the halfhearted cleanup efforts until the state government took over ownership of the inoperative plant in 1998. The site is still not fully remediated. Union Carbide engaged in the predictable corporate rear end-covering, eventually paying a few hundred million dollars in damages, and putting the profit from the sale of UCIL in a trust for survivors that came out to about $100 million. The then-CEO of UCC, Warren Anderson, was charged with manslaughter days after the accident for his role in the disaster. He flew to India and was booked into custody, but was allowed to post bail for the equivalent of about $2000 USD. He was allowed to fly back to the United States and refused to return to India. The US refused to extradite him, stating that was inadequate evidence against him. He retired in 1986, maintained a number of residences in the United States partly to avoid subpoenas from Indian courts, and died in a nursing home in Florida in 2014, having never again returned to India. 
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Sep 8, 2022 01:38
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More like Lord Mountblownthefuckup
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Sep 8, 2022 01:58
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