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Bar Ran Dun posted:for the people making the decisions it is. i think people are misreading your past few posts. when you say morality/moral war justification, you are using it from point of view of officers/staff/politicians/ruling class, correct? and same with the bottom line of this most recent post?
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Sep 5, 2022 13:09
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Praying on every step of the nomograph like it’s a rosary as I help draft the Bde fire plan. 
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Sep 5, 2022 13:19
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that figure is incredible. is it just presented just like that or does the context make it less nonsense? i wish i could see inside the mind of whoever made it to see if they think it's real good or if they just wanted to make one for the hell of it or needed to fill space.
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Sep 5, 2022 13:41
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crepeface posted:the US somehow just accidently causing untold suffering over and over Uncle Sam's Oops! All War Crimes
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Sep 5, 2022 13:46
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Cuttlefush posted:that figure is incredible. is it just presented just like that or does the context make it less nonsense? i wish i could see inside the mind of whoever made it to see if they think it's real good or if they just wanted to make one for the hell of it or needed to fill space.
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Sep 5, 2022 14:12
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A Buttery Pastry posted:i don't see the issue with it? isn't it just basic probability plotted unto a graph? now you might claim that each weapon fired isn't an independent event, or that the probability of fulfilling the task by a single weapon is just gonna be something you pull out of your rear end, but that sounds like the kind of thing some egghead who doesn't know what war is would say. the plotting isn't the issue at all. if the context is that it's a purposefully generic base example of what such a nomogram would look like and the "P1 or M1" and "Pn/Mn" stuff (did they just decide to use a slash instead of typing or? is that a division symbol? why are there even two weapons?) is explained then it's not actually incredible. the generic euphemisms of 'fulfilling task' is pretty funny on its own. so is all probabilities being listed as both decimal and percentage as if those were important to include while leaving the figure description as vague as possible. if it's just a toy for illustrative purposes that's one thing. something gave me the assumption that it was intended to actually be used in that state for some toy exercises with no further elaboration and the user is left fingering from probability curve to probability curve while muttering in confusion. not sure if that's what FF meant now that I wrote this up. probably not. whoops.
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Sep 5, 2022 14:58
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weirdly enough reference charts used in a professional setting sometimes assume that you have training in the relevant field and understand the jargon
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Sep 5, 2022 15:00
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Cerebral Bore posted:weirdly enough reference charts used in a professional setting sometimes assume that you have training in the relevant field and understand the jargon  You have to calculate the P, probability of the mission being accomplished by a given weapon system and M, average value of damage inflicted on the enemy by the weapon system. P1 and M1 are values for a single weapons system, Pn and Mn are the values for a group. That’s the sort of thing that goes into staff work, and you’re right it relies on you being able to either reference the literature or make an estimate for the effectiveness and lethality of a system and difficulty of the assigned task. Which funnily enough, can be represented in a nomograph. 
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Sep 5, 2022 15:21
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Cerebral Bore posted:weirdly enough reference charts used in a professional setting sometimes assume that you have training in the relevant field and understand the jargon yeah for sure. that's why asked if the context made it less nonsense. found the source for it and the accompanying text looks like it explains everything. http://www.xenophon-mil.org/archivevoro2/newnorms.htm ctrl+f (17) Determination of Quantity of Various Weapons, Reconnaissance, Support, Communications etc. for Task Performance Frosted Flake posted:
yeah, i thought you were pointing it out as a silly warfighter plot. the text clears things up. just misinterpreted why you posted it and thought it was to be dunked on. it's neat, actually Cuttlefush has issued a correction as of 15:28 on Sep 5, 2022 |
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Sep 5, 2022 15:22
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calculate ‘p’
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Sep 5, 2022 22:22
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Turtle Watch posted:I hope you stop sinning and stop having blood on your hands. I exist and to exist is to be separate , thus sin is a state before it is act. But someday that’ll happen, God willing. Frosted Flake posted:Who did their best here? to some extent me. to a more general sense the nation collectively. I know all the things I directly facilitated by doing SOLAS work. it’s complicated, an example: remember the blockade in Israel of the boats trying to aid the Palestinians. I approved the loading and securing of vessels on both sides of that event. Cuttlefush posted:i think people are misreading your past few posts. when you say morality/moral war justification, you are using it from point of view of officers/staff/politicians/ruling class, correct? yes and partially my own having been on that track in the past. I’d like to turn it into something else.
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Sep 6, 2022 22:53
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There’s a difference between being on Bde staff, in emulation of Saints Martian of Tours and Ignatius of Loyola, and actually being a NatSec ghoul. Trying not to be lovely, while it can veer into Befel ist Befel territory, is very different from actually planning the Project For a New American Century, or regime change in Syria, which is patently immoral at face value. I mean, they got the oldest Christian church in the world destroyed, and that was one of hundreds.
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Sep 6, 2022 23:24
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if we're bringing religion into it I like the bit in City of God where Augustine is suggesting that maybe the sack of Rome just might have been divine punishment for the whole empire business; and mocks the people claiming that Rome only fought justified defensive wars by saying that any nation that was so cursed to be surrounded by such implacable enemies that the only way to defend itself is to conquer most of the known world must have done something to offend God in the first place
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Sep 6, 2022 23:43
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Anyhow the problem isn't with theories of just war in a vacuum, the problem is that the US is a gangster state and absolutely cannot be trusted to make decisions on behalf of other people. The only actually existing exception to this was against the Nazis and even that ended up with Hiroshima
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Sep 6, 2022 23:48
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StashAugustine posted:must have done something to offend God in the first place as the Man in Black says, sooner or later God will cut you down. but you can’t talk about the recent US without religion because of Obama and the relevance of Niebuhr’s thought. it’s also hard to talk about fascism without it.
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Sep 6, 2022 23:49
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City of God is fantastic, and yeah Roman legal justifications seem like this hilarious and distant thing, but in the 19th century the British Empire perfected using some idiot British trader or adventurer getting killed as an excuse to send in the gunboats and Bengal Lancers. The GWOT even now is technically defensive - the dozen plus ongoing undeclared military interventions all use the 9/11 AUMF.
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Sep 6, 2022 23:54
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StashAugustine posted:Anyhow the problem isn't with theories of just war in a vacuum, the problem is that the US is a gangster state and absolutely cannot be trusted to make decisions on behalf of other people. The only actually existing exception to this was against the Nazis and even that ended up with Hiroshima america went to save the nazis from russia and give them high fives
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Sep 6, 2022 23:54
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Obama strikes me as a howling void of personal ambition, I’m not sure how Niebuhr is connected, other than Obama’s repeated discovery that gosh! there were just so many things he couldn’t change (and didn’t try).
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Sep 6, 2022 23:58
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Frosted Flake posted:Obama strikes me as a howling void of personal ambition, I’m not sure how Niebuhr is connected, other than Obama’s repeated discovery that gosh! there were just so many things he couldn’t change (and didn’t try). everything you need to know about Niebuhr is contained in the letter he sends MLK in place of actually marching alongside him he agrees with the cause King fights for, of course! but offering him anything more material than an 'attaboy' is just... a step further than he's able to take, right now. the gospel of neoliberalism in a sentence: "sucks to be you i guess lol"
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Sep 7, 2022 00:03
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:everything you need to know about Niebuhr is contained in the letter he sends MLK in place of actually marching alongside him I’m curious what you think about this essay, Reinhold Niebuhr During the Time of the White Compromise, because on top of what you describe, which seems to be a theology of neoliberalism as you said, his relationship with black people in Detroit reminds me of Obama’s visit to Flint. Obviously there are no easy answers to the lumpenproletariat, but I don’t know what to make of: “It has been a rare experience to meet with these white and colored leaders and talk over our race problems. The situation which the colored people of the city face is really a desperate one, and no one who does not spend real time in gathering the facts can have any idea of the misery and pain which exists among these people, recently migrated from the south and unadjusted to our industrial civilization. Hampered both by their own inadequacies and the hostility of a white world they have a desperate fight to keep body and soul together, to say nothing of developing those amenities which raise life about the brute level” Which is summarized in the essay as “Niebuhr ’s biographer, Fox, surmises that Niebuhr must not have seen black people as part of the industrial struggle between labor and owners, or perhaps believed they were not yet developed enough to participate.“ That seems to be about how the Democrats have felt about the urban black population since Clinton at least, other than they’ve sided with the owners. “His Christian prophecy was so completely rooted in his reading of the industrial conflict between skilled white workers and their employers—in his hope that the American worker could join with enlightened professional people to form a Labor Party on the British model—that it had no place for the black struggle for equality” Substitute Labor for New Labour, and remove workers from the coalition, leaving only enlightened professional people, and that’s the Democrats under Obama. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 00:44 on Sep 7, 2022 |
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Sep 7, 2022 00:42
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the thing he's most famous for is the Serenity Prayer, which is a beautiful, noble sentiment that happens to include a truly vile bonus prize. "grant me the courage to change what can be changed, the serenity to accept what I cannot, and the wisdom to know the difference." it's a great thing to ask for, if you believe that there's somebody out there who's got the power to hand it to you. but if you grant that when you ask that question nobody is going to answer, you're just setting up your own perspective on how to handle the challenges the world puts in front of you. and so, Niebuhr's great utility for the powerful is that he offers them a way to look at telling MLK "I'm not going to lift a finger for your doomed crusade, good luck tho" as ~wisdom and serenity~, as opposed to being a coward and collaborator. Lord, grant me the courage to drone strike the weddings that can be drone striked, the serenity to accept throwing immigrant children into dog cages, and the wisdom to understand I have always made the best of all possible choices, because I'm occasionally troubled by pangs of conscience.
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Sep 7, 2022 01:10
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:Lord, grant me the courage to drone strike the weddings that can be drone striked, the serenity to accept throwing immigrant children into dog cages, and the wisdom to understand I have always made the best of all possible choices, because I'm occasionally troubled by pangs of conscience. Quit subtweeting aoc
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Sep 7, 2022 01:26
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StashAugustine posted:if we're bringing religion into it I like the bit in City of God where Augustine is suggesting that maybe the sack of Rome just might have been divine punishment for the whole empire business; and mocks the people claiming that Rome only fought justified defensive wars by saying that any nation that was so cursed to be surrounded by such implacable enemies that the only way to defend itself is to conquer most of the known world must have done something to offend God in the first place St. Augustine: Rome deserved 8/27, kid.
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Sep 7, 2022 01:43
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:St. Augustine: Rome deserved 8/27, kid. Alaric did nothing wrong
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Sep 7, 2022 02:21
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This was blowback for refusing to let them settle Dacia.
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Sep 7, 2022 04:42
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The Proscribed were no angels
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Sep 7, 2022 05:08
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Out of the blue I asked, “Have you ever read Reinhold Niebuhr?” Obama’s tone changed. “I love him. He’s one of my favorite philosophers.” So I asked, What do you take away from him? “I take away,” Obama answered in a rush of words, “the compelling idea that there’s serious evil in the world, and hardship and pain. And we should be humble and modest in our belief we can eliminate those things. But we shouldn’t use that as an excuse for cynicism and inaction. I take away ... the sense we have to make these efforts knowing they are hard, and not swinging from naïve idealism to bitter realism.”
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Sep 7, 2022 16:08
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Obama may actually be the devil, just not in the way Republicans throught
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Sep 7, 2022 16:32
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:everything you need to know about Niebuhr is contained in the letter he sends MLK in place of actually marching alongside him “As Reinhold Niebuhr taught us” I mean ur an idiot. Also who was sending African American clergy to go study with Ghandi , and created active non violent resistance movement. I mean you’re dumb, but this is really dumb. when he was in Detroit he was a militant drilling communist, until he visited Russia under Stalin. Frosted Flake posted:Obama may actually be the devil, just not in the way Republicans throught if he’d read Tillich instead it’d have been obvious as early as 08 the GOP was becoming a fascist party.
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Sep 8, 2022 16:19
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That and it’s hard to not be a socialist after the social decision.
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Sep 8, 2022 16:22
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Bar Ran Dun posted:if he’d read Tillich instead it’d have been obvious as early as 08 the GOP was becoming a fascist party. lol
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Sep 8, 2022 18:01
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StashAugustine posted:Anyhow the problem isn't with theories of just war in a vacuum, the problem is that the US is a gangster state and absolutely cannot be trusted to make decisions on behalf of other people. The only actually existing exception to this was against the Nazis and even that ended up with Hiroshima to be fair imperial japan was also a gangster state
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Sep 8, 2022 18:12
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Stairmaster posted:to be fair imperial japan was also a gangster state japan has been run by gangsters since 1192
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Sep 8, 2022 19:51
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https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/sta...ingawful.com%2F The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. -Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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Sep 8, 2022 23:01
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perfidious Chinese magnets?! who knows what sorts of communist electromagnetic waves they would give off
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Sep 8, 2022 23:09
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loving f35s, how do they work
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Sep 9, 2022 02:26
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OhFunny posted:https://twitter.com/AZmilitary1/sta...ingawful.com%2F aren't basically all rare earth elements mined in china?
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Sep 9, 2022 02:30
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evilpicard posted:loving f35s, how do they work they don’t
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Sep 9, 2022 02:48
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I watched the movie "top gun Maverick" and curiously they made a point of flying old generation FA18/e (single seat) and FA18/f (dual seat) fighter bombers. They were like, "woof this mission would obviously be perfect for the f35-rear end" but for plot reasons we will have to use previous gen planes. Thinking critically, it must be because they didn't want to disclose the secret f35 tactics that cannot be disclosed to the movie viewing public. Yet. Those places got that dawg in 'em for sure.
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Sep 9, 2022 08:00
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palindrome posted:I watched the movie "top gun Maverick" and curiously they made a point of flying old generation FA18/e (single seat) and FA18/f (dual seat) fighter bombers. when they tried to render a CGI f35 it crashed the computer
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Sep 9, 2022 08:17
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