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Yeah the arrow thing is basically "this character not being a perfect rational actor is a plothole" levels of silliness. At that distance and with him running about the place I'm surprised any of them hit him.
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Sep 6, 2022 15:41
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the emotional payoff of "daemon was motivated to end the situation purely out of spite for his brother" was completely fine but I just think it could have been conveyed in a slightly less ridiculous manner. One thing I like about this show compared to GoT is that we are already prepped to accept targs as emotional actors so there's a lot more plot armour available but I just didn't quite buy the way it was played off here.
Jezza of OZPOS fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Sep 6, 2022 |
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Sep 6, 2022 16:05
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Gresh posted:Caraxes is probably the best dragon design put to film. Love it! I'm an avowed GOT dragon hater and I thought his design ruled. Last battle stunk. Very latter season GOT vibes. Though in fairness Blackwater might be the only good battle from GOT.
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Sep 6, 2022 16:10
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He's hosed anyways - he was barehanding the crab greyscale man. RIP
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Sep 6, 2022 16:20
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Vintersorg posted:He's hosed anyways - he was barehanding the crab greyscale man. RIP Yeah I couldn’t help but wonder if this will end up being a thing
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Sep 6, 2022 16:22
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Jezza of OZPOS posted:I'm having a good time watching this show but watching matt smith get shot at a billion times and shrug off the few couple of shots that actually connected absolutely was an eyeroll moment for me Yeah, I didn't like that. I took him getting his beat in the tournament in episode 1 to mean this main character isn't some invincible badass. Now I'm taking it to mean he's an invincible badass but Cole is supposed to be even more of one. I like the show so far, but hope we don't get too much of that.
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Sep 6, 2022 16:50
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Vintersorg posted:He's hosed anyways - he was barehanding the crab greyscale man. RIP Targs have some level of disease immunity that varies. Not universal and not a spoiler that I know of either; they just almost never get sick when everyone else does, although it can happen.
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Sep 6, 2022 17:16
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wilderthanmild posted:Yeah, I didn't like that. I took him getting his beat in the tournament in episode 1 to mean this main character isn't some invincible badass. Now I'm taking it to mean he's an invincible badass but Cole is supposed to be even more of one. There's a vanishingly unlikely chance that they could take this opportunity to show characters having more nuance than "god of combat, eater of souls" and "useless, will die with harsh glance". Like Daemon and Cristan Cole are both good because they're expressly not tournament fighters and in so much as they win it's because they're not following "the rules" and fighting more like it's a real fight, hence Daemon's trick with the lance and Cristan beating Daemon was actually because Daemon wasn't expecting a "fair" fight. Then they could use this level of characterization throughout the rest of the show to have different fighters developing differently as they gain more real-world combat experience in different environments and learning different lessons. They could even have some of that stuff mirror interior character traits as a metaphor. One of my favorite things about Justified (besides it being up there with Mad Men in terms of giving you an excuse to drink bourbon) is that Raylan isn't just the best at fighting. He's specifically the best at his very specific quickdraw thing and being smart about where he has gun battles. In terms of actual marksmanship, there's the sniper dude who is legit better at any of the "normal" things like accuracy or rifles or anything that's not cowboy high noon pistol dueling. And at least from my memory of the first couple seasons, whenever Raylan gets into a straight-up fair fistfight he gets his rear end laid the gently caress out (which is why a solid chunk of his fighting is "hit hard in face with butt of gun while surprised"). It'd be nice to have to something more interesting then everyone being a D&D fighter that just rolls attacks until they beat their opponent's AC and a mandated generic fight choreography happened. Combat could be cool on screen violence and also serve as a greater metaphor for the intra- and inter-character conflict that has like stakes and meaning. But if they did that people would probably just call it anime bullshit or something instead.
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Sep 6, 2022 17:33
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I like that someone may not be a tourney duelist yet is fine or good in actual combat. The books had that with characters like Loras, who could joust and duel, but odds are that if he faced Ned on the field, Ned could have beaten him. There's also the chance that some characters' fighting prowess is a load of crap, based on who trained them or some chance victories. Put Daemon up against Knights in a tourney and he'll cheat to win. Put him against pirates in a battle and he'll cheat to win. It is kind of doofy though that we see all of these generals and lords talking genuine strategy and how unwinnable the expedition is, then Daemon just wins with a trick play like it's the Mighty Giants. GoT always tries to act like it's the one Fanta series that GETS military strategy then has these types of scenes. As a character moment and establishing of stakes, I likes it. It just requires some suspension of disbelief, which is a big ask after GoT.
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Sep 6, 2022 17:53
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Pennsylvanian posted:It is kind of doofy though that we see all of these generals and lords talking genuine strategy and how unwinnable the expedition is, then Daemon just wins with a trick play like it's the Mighty Giants. This seems to be the strategy they were discussing though. They said they needed to give them something enticing enough to come out of the caves and that Daemon was the only thing that could work.
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Sep 6, 2022 17:59
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Pennsylvanian posted:GoT always tries to act like it's the one Fanta series that GETS military strategy then has these types of scenes. I'll give them this -- it's better than putting the catapults in front of the infantry and having your ace light cavalry charge blindly at an enemy with no formation to disrupt or morale to break
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Sep 6, 2022 18:20
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Yeah I feel out of all of the crap season 8 got, that the Battle of Winterfell strategy could have entire books written about its badness.PostNouveau posted:This seems to be the strategy they were discussing though. They said they needed to give them something enticing enough to come out of the caves and that Daemon was the only thing that could work. Funny that they use the same strategy I do in Total Warhammer when I run an army with a tank lord. Pennsylvanian fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Sep 6, 2022 |
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Sep 6, 2022 18:39
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PostNouveau posted:This seems to be the strategy they were discussing though. They said they needed to give them something enticing enough to come out of the caves and that Daemon was the only thing that could work. Yup. It was so risky they thought he wouldn't do it. Then King Goon offered to help so it became the only plan.
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Sep 6, 2022 18:39
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Pattonesque posted:I'll give them this -- it's better than putting the catapults in front of the infantry and having your ace light cavalry charge blindly at an enemy with no formation to disrupt or morale to break Oh god I forgot how angry I still am about this
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Sep 6, 2022 18:40
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“Better than the battle of Winterfell” is not exactly high praise. I’d rather them offscreen battles like GOT did early on, rather than make a ridiculous premise for one.
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Sep 6, 2022 18:43
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wilderthanmild posted:Yeah, I didn't like that. I took him getting his beat in the tournament in episode 1 to mean this main character isn't some invincible badass. Now I'm taking it to mean he's an invincible badass but Cole is supposed to be even more of one. Rhaenys > Cole > Boar = Daemon > Crabmen
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Sep 6, 2022 18:43
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Boars just hate the royal family and have it out for them
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Sep 6, 2022 18:46
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I spent the whole hunt episode thinking the King was gonna get too drunk and killed by a boar or stag or something. When he was clearly nursing a wicked hangover during the kill scene I thought it was gonna get free and ram him.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:05
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Great episode, minus the stormtrooper archer aim at Daemon, and also him not being slowed down at all after taking 3 arrows. I'm fine with them not showing the crab man battle, but I was disappointed they killed him off so soon. I love how the king just keeps pounding the wine with every marriage proposal he gets. You can tell he is loving sick of it all.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:36
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wilderthanmild posted:I spent the whole hunt episode thinking the King was gonna get too drunk and killed by a boar or stag or something. When he was clearly nursing a wicked hangover during the kill scene I thought it was gonna get free and ram him.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:44
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unlimited shrimp posted:This is an old argument for why the quality of GoT declined so starkly between the early and later seasons. I would also like more social commentary and less soap opera, but at least this time around the show hasn't promised anything more than palace intrigue from the jump. Cursed-rear end take from someone who probably clapped when TLJ wasted half of its runtime to say "wait, war bad?" when one of the sides is led by Dracula and had blown up five planets like yesterday.
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Sep 6, 2022 20:05
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In regards to the arrows: I think we’ve all been tricked by Hollywood, especially Elves on TV, because I actually think those archers did very well just getting the arrows near him as much as they did. As another poster pointed out the fact that they were aiming at one, very fast, target from that far away and actually hit him was very impressive. All-in-all that plan didn’t involve so much of Daemon’s luck not to get hit, it was more so of the archers’ luck to hit Daemon.
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Sep 6, 2022 20:08
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Darko posted:Targs have some level of disease immunity that varies. Not universal and not a spoiler that I know of either; they just almost never get sick when everyone else does, although it can happen.
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Sep 6, 2022 20:09
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Tom Tucker posted:Oh god I forgot how angry I still am about this the funny thing is that you could do the basic story beats of the Battle of Winterfell more or less unchanged but make Jon and Dany actually competent military commanders and it'd make the whole thing a million times more effective. Like imagine the Dothraki wheeling about out of range pouring fire or dragonglass arrows into the horde, a fire trench system set up to funnel the undead into a single location, a thousand archers on the walls, catapults firing nonstop from minute one, and infantry desperately trying to hold the gate while the dragons duke it out in the sky and it doesn't matter because the horde is still that overwhelming. That would have been amazing!
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Sep 6, 2022 20:12
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Arrows also lose velocity at long range which is why war bows are only capable of piercing plate armor at very close distances. Sure they were firing from an elevated position but they were also a far distance away. Also, it's not like hundreds of guys were firing volleys at him- I counted and there were 12 archers. Hitting a moving target at that distance isn't easy, even in a volley. Something I liked is that some of the shots missed by a lot, which is what would happen when you have 12 guys trying to anticipate where a guy will be in the 6 seconds it would take for your arrow to reach him, 300 feet away. When he finally does take a couple hits, it's because he'd stopped to grapple with an enemy and became a stationary target. That's pretty excellent direction IMO. The scene was fine in my opinion. Bows are not rifles and the strong ones that would be used in combat against people were even less accurate due to the strong draw weight needed to be a threat to anyone in armor. Also, the director went out of his way to show Crab man constantly scanning the ridge line, anticipating the dragon. He wasn't surprised by it- he expected it. What he didn't expect was Daemon to so recklessly put his own life at risk by taking on a bunch of his men alone, which yeah I get that it's a bit of a trope but I feel it's earned. This was Daemon at his best, motivated purely out of desire to be seen as his own man, capable of literally fighting his own battles. The men he's killing are sailors and thieves (pirates) not hardened soldiers. He's wielding a valyrian steel sword and wearing high quality plate. It was fine. E: ok there are like 20 archers total, not 12. A later, wider shot shows more on the ridge. That same shot also shows that they are more like 500 feet away, which makes it even less likely that they'd be able to hit Daemon. FLIPADELPHIA fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Sep 6, 2022 |
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Sep 6, 2022 20:18
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Pennsylvanian posted:Yeah I feel out of all of the crap season 8 got, that the Battle of Winterfell strategy could have entire books written about its badness. There's easily several books worth out there in the internet, Bret Deveraux's take is my fav though (and he has a lot more excellent detailed breakdowns from a medieval history perspective too, the Loot Train logistics series is highly recommended)
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Sep 6, 2022 20:59
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Arrows also lose velocity at long range which is why war bows are only capable of piercing plate armor at very close distances. Sure they were firing from an elevated position but they were also a far distance away. Also, it's not like hundreds of guys were firing volleys at him- I counted and there were 12 archers. Hitting a moving target at that distance isn't easy, even in a volley. Something I liked is that some of the shots missed by a lot, which is what would happen when you have 12 guys trying to anticipate where a guy will be in the 6 seconds it would take for your arrow to reach him, 300 feet away. When he finally does take a couple hits, it's because he'd stopped to grapple with an enemy and became a stationary target. That's pretty excellent direction IMO.
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Sep 6, 2022 21:03
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I think they do need to tone down reminding viserys that he's king. I think he knows
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Sep 6, 2022 21:18
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If I were Viserys I’d just be drunk-weeping and over-sharing with Strong then doing whatever he said that guy is the best.
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Sep 6, 2022 21:54
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Jezza of OZPOS posted:I'm having a good time watching this show but watching matt smith get shot at a billion times and shrug off the few couple of shots that actually connected absolutely was an eyeroll moment for me The Crab Feeder kind of forgot about plot armor
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Sep 6, 2022 22:26
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RIP to the Crab Feeder, who never got a single line, and is now the king of being paid scale.
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Sep 6, 2022 22:32
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Tom Tucker posted:If I were Viserys I’d just be drunk-weeping and over-sharing with Strong then doing whatever he said that guy is the best. Strong is a true bro and a smart man which means he's probably gonna get super-murdered
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Sep 6, 2022 22:54
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sure okay posted:RIP to the Crab Feeder, who never got a single line, and is now the king of being paid scale. He's only given one line in the books: "Yee-claw!!!!!" 
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Sep 6, 2022 23:02
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I was hoping for Allicent Hightower nudity before the time skip. Not looking likely (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 7, 2022 00:10
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Pattonesque posted:Strong is a true bro and a smart man which means he's probably gonna get super-murdered Yeah fuckin' RIP he's gonna cross Otto or something and get knifed in bed
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Sep 7, 2022 00:16
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Captain Splendid posted:He's only given one line in the books: the books are terrible
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Sep 7, 2022 00:33
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ghouldaddy07 posted:I was hoping for Allicent Hightower nudity before the time skip. Not looking likely 
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Sep 7, 2022 00:43
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ghouldaddy07 posted:I was hoping for Allicent Hightower nudity before the time skip. Not looking likely So when she was playing a 15 year old, or when she was like 11 months pregnant?
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Sep 7, 2022 00:48
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ghouldaddy07 posted:I was hoping for Allicent Hightower nudity before the time skip. Not looking likely So this is a post you chose to make
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Sep 7, 2022 00:55
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I was hoping for some crab feeder nudity swinging that stone wiener around.
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Sep 7, 2022 01:17
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