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WoodrowSkillson posted:its the music of the ainur and i feel like i must be a rube or something cause it legit surprised me that they did something so cool that nearly everyone beyond Tolkien nerds would miss Yeah I thought it was very elegantly done, just kind of cut off abruptly.
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Sep 6, 2022 00:25
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On the topic of Celeborn not being around in the show, as someone who likes Celeborn I’m glad he’s not been mentioned because a good spouse is someone who’s always got your back, so if he’s around they either have a protagonist who always has someone in their corner (not great for dramatic tension), show Celeborn as being a bad spouse (character assassination), or have to dedicate a lot of screen time to their relationship conflicts (not what we’re here to see) of course if I get proved wrong later lol
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Sep 6, 2022 00:55
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Celeborn and her in the book spend a significant amount of time apart anyway so this is not unusual, the issue sis she obviously would not return to Valinor without him, so the show is not having her already married and that's fine. The important part of the their relationship to the story is them building Lothlorien together. So I'm fine with in say, season 3, him becoming an important character. Also they should bring back Lee Pace as Thranduil.
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Sep 6, 2022 01:00
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Celeborn and her in the book spend a significant amount of time apart anyway so this is not unusual, the issue sis she obviously would not return to Valinor without him, so the show is not having her already married and that's fine. The important part of the their relationship to the story is them building Lothlorien together. So I'm fine with in say, season 3, him becoming an important character. Umm she does return to Valinor without him in LOTR.
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Sep 6, 2022 01:03
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sweet geek swag posted:Umm she does return to Valinor without him in LOTR. yes that's a very different set of circumstances though and he follows after a few years
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Sep 6, 2022 01:05
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Celeborn and her in the book spend a significant amount of time apart anyway so this is not unusual, the issue sis she obviously would not return to Valinor without him, so the show is not having her already married and that's fine. The important part of the their relationship to the story is them building Lothlorien together. So I'm fine with in say, season 3, him becoming an important character. I agree with all this. Furthermore I would watch a show solely about Lee Pace’s Thranduil being a catty bitch
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Sep 6, 2022 01:08
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Xibanya posted:I agree with all this. Furthermore I would watch a show solely about Lee Pace’s Thranduil being a catty bitch
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Sep 6, 2022 01:24
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Xibanya posted:I agree with all this. Furthermore I would watch a show solely about Lee Pace’s Thranduil being a catty bitch Real Housewives of the Woodland Realm
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Sep 6, 2022 01:27
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adhuin posted:Pretty much. They could have literally skipped the whole thing and give Galadriel some other reason to visit Numenor. I initially assumed that we are way earlier in the timeline, because Sauron has not shown himself openly yet and neither have the Rings of Power been forged. But then I learned that we get a young Isildur in this season and that Miriel will be queen of Numénor. Meaning the show takes place in the "xenophobic fascists" era of Numênor and that the writers cut a few thousand years. In early to mid Numénor Galadriel would have been welcome as ambassador or simply as visitor, in end stage Numénor not so much. Still it irks me that their story vehicle turns Gil-galad into a petty politician who wants Galadriel out of the picture, while at the same time ruining the whole meaning of Valinor. Namely from "birthright and elf paradise", to some kind of Botany Bay for undesirables.
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Sep 6, 2022 06:15
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I think they're probably going to get most of the events in order, but have it all happen in 10 or 20 years. So it might be that she is welcome and they show the downfall as 100% the result of Sauron's influence. I expect her arc for this season is going to begging for Numenorean help to come fight Sauron while they treat her with the same scepticism that the elves do.
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Sep 6, 2022 06:20
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I'm expecting the last two episodes to be Ar Phaerazon invading middle earth to liberate the southlands and take Sauron back to Numenor. But I also think that they're going to have the cult of sauron already working on Numenor before they sail to Middle Earth and bringing Sauron back to the island will just accelerate the downfall.
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Sep 6, 2022 06:24
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I don't think he's coming back this season or at least not until the last episode. E: In fact I think I'll go out on a limb and say they don't even forge the rings an Annatar is who shows up or is revealed towards the end of the season. Funky See Funky Do fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Sep 6, 2022 |
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Sep 6, 2022 06:28
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End it on a cliffhanger with the Numenorians routing an orc army and then we get a shot revealing Sauron in his fair form then cut to black. Then start season 2 with you expecting a big battle but sauron surrenders.
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Sep 6, 2022 06:34
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At what point does "Nori eating things" stop being part of the show and start becoming it's own fetish?
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Sep 6, 2022 06:42
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF_fldVFbpU Adding this to the list of things I didn't expect to find tonight. A homemade anime op about the House of Fëanor.
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Sep 6, 2022 06:45
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Know what always irked me a bit about the movies and now in the new show? (except for my usual rants) I didn't like that the elven armies look so uniform and homogenous. Several of these warriors should be 1000 years or older, yet they all look alike. I would expect that an immortal would develop personal quirks over the centuries. Display the heraldry of their house or clan, maybe have some small trophies or charms on their armor or shield. A bit of a variation in their weapons - ofc you would have spear/sword/ or bowmen, but I would expect at least some of them to maybe field family heirlooms that were passed on from ancestors who fell in battle or left for Valinor. Considering how many named weapons and other legendary gear are mentioned in the source material, it seems like a missed opportunity. Ofc that would require a lot more work when it comes to costumes or cgi. And I also cannot name a precedent from the lore, but I always thought that it would make sense. Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Sep 6, 2022 |
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Sep 6, 2022 09:54
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yeah i really hate that too and it's why seeing the sons of feanor would have been interesting, since they're all clearly described as different guys (maedhros is well meaning but stubborn, maglor is a dreamer, curufin is a psychopath, celegorm is a dumb brute, caranthir is a hothead), and who also all look different
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Sep 6, 2022 10:10
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I always wanted to see the visuals of Fingon's blue-and-silver banner clearly marking out his vanguard or Turgon's army of Gondolin appearing out of nowhere looking like nobody else on the field.
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Sep 6, 2022 10:35
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Data Graham posted:I always wanted to see the visuals of Fingon's blue-and-silver banner clearly marking out his vanguard or Turgon's army of Gondolin appearing out of nowhere looking like nobody else on the field. Maybe when/if Bezos gets the right to do The Silmarillion in a few years?
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Sep 6, 2022 16:04
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They've got some awkward chronology if we're starting with Tar-Miriel as Ruling Queen (Regent? is she married to Ar-Pharazon?) -- Sauron needs to have dominion in Middle Earth (the Elves aren't even sure he's _around_ so that's going to take some time) -- I assume that will take some time (a few seasons?) -- then Numenor captures him, etc.
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Sep 6, 2022 16:59
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This is a nice short outline of Numenor’s gradual fall that I think encapsulates the serious concerns I have regarding the time compression undermining the whole point. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcv-xRwzP2E
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Sep 6, 2022 17:13
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alcaras posted:They've got some awkward chronology if we're starting with Tar-Miriel as Ruling Queen (Regent? is she married to Ar-Pharazon?) -- Sauron needs to have dominion in Middle Earth (the Elves aren't even sure he's _around_ so that's going to take some time) -- I assume that will take some time (a few seasons?) -- then Numenor captures him, etc. We also get Isildur in the coming episodes, despite the Rings of Power not even having been forged yet. Meaning that he's born thousands of years too early. I was really hoping we would get a great "Glory days of Numénor" story, in the mold of Jason and the Argonauts, about the days when they were great explorers and seafarers and were kind to the people of ME.
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Sep 7, 2022 11:14
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https://twitter.com/deathbybadger/status/1567425842526945280?s=20
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Sep 7, 2022 14:23
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This is brilliant. Meanwhile... I took the release of the show as a sign that it's time to upgrade my ancient paperbacks of Tolkien's works to some nice hardcover editions. I wanted to post these here, in case someone is in the same boat and wants some guidance. The 2004 LOTR edition is really nice, it's not illustrated except for a large foldable facsimile of the Book of Marzabul and 2 rather simplistic maps made by Christopher Tolkien. Maybe the typeset could be a bit larger for my taste but it's printed on the same thin, silky paper that some really old leatherbound classics that I own (Shakespeare, Schiller and others) are printed on and that makes up for that drawback. There are newer editions ofc, but the fancy one from 2021 has a cover in a rather garish red and the *really fancy one* that is coming in 2 months seems even worse, while this here is more subtle.  The Silmarillion's paper feels more like standard printer paper, although the book cover with the inlay of Maglor throwing the last Silmaril into the sea, looks and feels great. The typeset might be a tiny bit larger than in the LOTR book and it has colored illustrations, as well as a very nice map of Beleriand.  Both books come with sturdy sleeves and the bindings also appear robust. If you are interested in buying the same book, I put the ISBN-10 numbers into the comments section of the gallery. Below is the link to the gallery on Imgur: https://imgur.com/gallery/7evY4LK I bought some more stuff, which I can post later. Although my native language is Austrian-German I really prefer to read these books in English. All the German translations have some issues, which is a shame because there are at least 2 very beautiful editions available. The older translation by Margaret Carroux is the one I prefer, but some consider it a bit "dry". There is a newer translation by Wolfgang Krege and he tried to modernize the language a little, so that it appeals more to younger readers. But that ended up with Sam calling Frodo "Chef" in German, which translates into "Boss" in English. And the Nazgûl became "lange Kerle in grauen Hemden", "tall guys in gray shirts". Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Sep 8, 2022 |
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Sep 7, 2022 17:46
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Hammerstein posted:This is brilliant. I knew about the Chef bit and about the wagging leaves, but that last bit… The Carroux translation is one of the better ones overall, she actually consulted Tolkien about a lot of the names.
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Sep 7, 2022 20:54
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I thought Valinor was like an actual land and not loving an ascension to heaven. Dear lord this show already…
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Sep 7, 2022 21:24
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jeeves posted:I thought Valinor was like an actual land and not loving an ascension to heaven. I mean it basically is heaven for elves? There's gods and maiar and poo poo living there.
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Sep 7, 2022 21:26
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jeeves posted:I thought Valinor was like an actual land and not loving an ascension to heaven. you basically needed to ascend there when the valar updated flat earth into 3d
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Sep 7, 2022 21:27
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I've preordered the Silmarillion edition with Tolkien's own illustrations I posted the link to a couple of pages back, and I've already got the matching LOTR edition. It's lovely, and I really like seeing how Tolkien visualised things. Now all I want is a Hobbit in the same format. But I still have my manky old 3-vol A-format Unwin editions for stuffing into a bag to read on the road or wherever. https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-lord-of-the-rings/j-r-r-tolkien/9780008471286 https://www.waterstones.com/book/the-silmarillion/j-r-r-tolkien/christopher-tolkien/9780008537890
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Sep 7, 2022 21:28
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So Finrod was also named Nóm, meaning "wisdom" by Béor's people. In the earliest versions of Elvish that Tolkien wrote, the language was Gnomish, and the Noldor were Gnomes. Was Tolkien making a bit of a callback to his original form of Elvish by naming Finrod as Nóm, which sounds like Gnome?
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Sep 7, 2022 21:32
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ChubbyChecker posted:you basically needed to ascend there when the valar updated flat earth into 3d Minor point, but it was not the Valar who did that, and it should not have happened yet in the show's time frame.
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Sep 7, 2022 21:32
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jeeves posted:I thought Valinor was like an actual land and not loving an ascension to heaven. i thought the depiction of valinor was okay actually
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Sep 7, 2022 21:34
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Pioneer42 posted:Minor point, but it was not the Valar who did that, and it should not have happened yet in the show's time frame. ah yes, eru and the show isn't canonical
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Sep 7, 2022 21:36
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i don't really mind Lore Changes that much, i liked the shadow of war games just because they had fun with an idea. i don't mind that they're not going to dwell on the reign of ar-gimilzor or the balchoth or whatever but i don't like poor characterization and crap dialogue. the show's got poorly written dialogue and cliched shoehorned plot points, that's the problem i have with it. elrond as a speechwriter, durin and him as cop buddies, gil galad as a politician, galadriel as an action hero out for revenge. these are stock tv show characters with tolkien names slapped on
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Sep 7, 2022 21:37
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Shibawanko posted:i don't really mind Lore Changes that much, i liked the shadow of war games just because they had fun with an idea. i don't mind that they're not going to dwell on the reign of ar-gimilzor or the balchoth or whatever yeah, agreed
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Sep 7, 2022 21:40
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Why did they make The Southlands ie. Mordor look like generic european heartland? Why not at least use some characteristics from khand/harad? Just change the landscape to more steppe-like and have some more horses. You know, make the world a bit more diverse?
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Sep 8, 2022 04:55
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Shibawanko posted:i don't really mind Lore Changes that much, i liked the shadow of war games just because they had fun with an idea. i don't mind that they're not going to dwell on the reign of ar-gimilzor or the balchoth or whatever I'm already worried what they will do to Isildur and Elendil in the coming episodes. Shibawanko posted:i thought the depiction of valinor was okay actually In looks it's too similar to the Grey Havens and Lindon, I expected that shot of Valinor to be a little more glorious. Taller towers, greater spires and so on... But what's worse was Galadriel's childhood. These elf kids grow up in a land where the Valar and their Maiar servants live. These kids should have had the benefit of an upbringing that not just encompasses wisdom and various arts, but also kindness and compassion. Yet they behave like highschool bullies, who have nothing better to do than to throw rocks at a paper boat made by a princess from one of the great houses. This is way too ordinary and way too humanized. I'm worried that the writers don't really get Tolkien, and treat elves as "Humans with pointy ears, who actually shower twice a week". Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Sep 8, 2022 |
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Sep 8, 2022 06:22
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Mordekai posted:Why did they make The Southlands ie. Mordor look like generic european heartland? Why not at least use some characteristics from khand/harad? Just change the landscape to more steppe-like and have some more horses. You know, make the world a bit more diverse?
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Sep 8, 2022 07:13
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Hammerstein posted:I'm already worried what they will do to Isildur and Elendil in the coming episodes. Like, Feanor grew up in a land where the Valar and their Maiar servants lived and look how that turned out.
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Sep 8, 2022 07:59
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Ravenfood posted:You do remember how loving lovely the elves can be, right? If anything I was just happy Valinor and the elf children weren't floating around being ethereal and compassionate and wise at each other, since, well, *points at all of the Silmarillion* No doubt, but that wasn't my point. Also Galdriel was born ~100 years before Melkor started spreading lies in Valinor. My point was that the scene is too ordinary and too much like human highschool drama. They should have come up with something better than "Kids throwing rocks" and "Girl hits bully"...
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Sep 8, 2022 08:28
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