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Bugblatter posted:I don't recall him being ugly? He's dirty and unkempt do to trudging around in the wilds as a ranger, the line about him and gold refers to the fact that he is heir to the thrown despite not being dressed like a fancy king. Sam straight up calls him an ugly sonofabitch to his face like a boss Charles 1998 posted:I didn't even know Galadriel was a demi god. I just thought she was determined because of how many close family and friends have died over centuries of war. Like how Batman has no super powers, he is just determined due to the loss of his parents. Naw this is just people being marvel-brained. In tolkien's works outside of nebulous 'magic' like influencing people or (very rarely) exploding pinecones/fireworks, there is very little in the way of 'superpowers'. Being one of the first born and seeing the light of the trees doesn't literally give people superpowers by soaking in the gamma radiation. Tolkien treats these people as just being essentially what legends are made of. They were capable of mighty acts that affected the world at large, because it was a 'legendary' time. Earendil fighting Ancalagon the black (the mightiest dragon to have ever lived) does not include him, like, blocking the dragon's claw over his head with a sword, or grabbing his tail and swinging him around like a cat. These are fights that lasted days, because that's what makes a good legend. I really hope there is very little of 'power level' brought into these stories, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Sep 6, 2022 16:55
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PostNouveau posted:What the gently caress is a Noldor and what the gently caress is a Calaquendi? And people wonder why old fans get defensive when new media comes out and new people jump in and call them dorks.
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Sep 6, 2022 16:57
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Hammerstein posted:Swimming across the Atlantic is reserved for Marvel comics, such feats have no place in Tolkien's work.
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Sep 6, 2022 17:02
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Necrothatcher posted:It wouldn't be a Tolkien adaptation without weird nerds spending paragraphs grousing about the most unbelievably inconsequential minutia. no no no you gotta trust them that everything that they type out would translate perfectly 1 for 1 into a visual media
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Sep 6, 2022 17:08
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Pioneer42 posted:And people wonder why old fans get defensive when new media comes out and new people jump in and call them dorks. the only people who get called dorks are the old fans that have a stick up their rear end wheezing about very dumb details that nobody truly cares about hth
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Sep 6, 2022 17:09
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Pioneer42 posted:And people wonder why old fans get defensive when new media comes out and new people jump in and call them dorks. Ah you must be used to it by now! This stuff is very interesting context for the new show, but it's pretty impenetrable to start from zero. I can see why the movies just skipped it all. Galadriel? Yeah she's a real powerful elf, don't ask any follow ups.
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Sep 6, 2022 17:12
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Bugblatter posted:Yeah, pretty bullshit how Frodo got to Bree in like a day just for the sake of pacing. Hobbiton to Rivendell seems to be like a few days’ journey. Gandalf getting from Hobbiton to Minas Tirith in what seems to be a very short time ruins the sense of scale… and a bunch of other complaints I recall reading when Fellowship came out. easy solution here: simple white text on a black background somewhere on the scene that says it's been x days/weeks/months/years since the previous scene 
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Sep 6, 2022 17:16
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PostNouveau posted:Ah you must be used to it by now! Compartmentalization is the real key. The difficult spot talking to others about this show for me is whether things not explicitly included in the show can be assumed to have happened--or happened the same way--in the world of the show. There's going to be a range of interpretations there as the worldline of the show develops.
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Sep 6, 2022 18:07
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Pioneer42 posted:Compartmentalization is the real key. The difficult spot talking to others about this show for me is whether things not explicitly included in the show can be assumed to have happened--or happened the same way--in the world of the show. There's going to be a range of interpretations there as the worldline of the show develops. The rights issues probably get in the way too. Someone was saying Elrond has important parents, but they don't have the rights to them, so now in this show maybe Elrond doesn't have important parents, because everyone is treating him like he's just another dude at court who writes the king's speeches.
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Sep 6, 2022 18:18
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PostNouveau posted:The rights issues probably get in the way too. Someone was saying Elrond has important parents, but they don't have the rights to them
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Sep 6, 2022 18:22
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Asema posted:easy solution here: simple white text on a black background somewhere on the scene that says it's been x days/weeks/months/years since the previous scene Yes do the typewriter scene location and date thing
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Sep 6, 2022 18:22
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Turin Turambar posted:I think doing heroic feats like '...and she swam for 4 days and 4 nights straight' would be totally normal for a old, powerful elf (and one in a heroic fantasy tale) like her. I think we can reconcile both points of view saying crossing the ocean would mean having to swim for two weeks so she indeed would have drowned eventually. Crossing the Helcaraxë could be a two or three month voyage, maybe? So it doesn't contradict anything. No doubt about that, swimming for a few days, even a week, should be no problem for the typical Noldor and certainly not for someone from a great lineage like Galadriel. But the actual distance, in the lore, as I pointed out in my effort post on page 38, is that we are talking about thousands of miles and not a few hundred max. But anyway, as mentioned earlier, the South Landers on the raft and Miriel being queen are proof that time and distance have been compressed drastically for story-telling purpose. I can live with that if the coming episodes are good.
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Sep 6, 2022 18:25
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Also I think a bigger issue with the "did she swim 1000 miles or what" question is, if they meant it to read that she had swum that distance, they could have made it clearer. Like from a storytelling standpoint, call it out, emphasize it, make a big deal of the feat. Don't make it possible to just sort of assume it was a mistake that you made as a filmmaker.
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Sep 6, 2022 18:45
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I admit that I'm most interested in the Harfoots and the Stranger because even though I'm pretty sure that it's going to be a Big Deal eventually, right now it's a small scale story of different beings groping toward understanding each other.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:18
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Everyone posted:I admit that I'm most interested in the Harfoots and the Stranger because even though I'm pretty sure that it's going to be a Big Deal eventually, right now it's a small scale story of different beings groping toward understanding each other. That's the nice thing about Tolkien and there are hints that the writers might have gotten this right. Namely that small things can have big effects. A small moth can be a messenger to a great eagle. Two small hobbits can rouse an army of Ents. A small thing like the One Ring can bring about the end of all the free people. Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Sep 6, 2022 |
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Sep 6, 2022 19:30
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I’m a longtime Tolkien nerd and spent many hours in my youth reading and rereading the novels and all the posthumously released writings, and I liked the two episodes we got so far. From my POV it’s just rad to get more content that plays in this universe at all. So what if it’s fanart? I love me some pro-quality fanart. anyway I already pay for Amazon Prime so it’s functionally free to me, I see the departures from canon and I can’t find it in me to get worked up about them.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:34
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There seem to be a great many people across the internet willing to take up that burden for you.
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Sep 6, 2022 19:47
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I made a huge nerdy effortpost in this thread but it wasn't complaining about the show. I do think the show is sort of weird and has a weird pacing and exposition and my issues with it have nothing to do with the books, but it's like a bunch of pretty wallpapers in succession, at worst I'll watch this for the comedy value like true blood. But I have no investment in it so I can see someone being more of a Tolkien fan being disappointed. I'll try to take whatever fun I can from this.
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Sep 6, 2022 20:01
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Elentor posted:I made a huge nerdy effortpost in this thread but it wasn't complaining about the show. I do think the show is sort of weird and has a weird pacing and exposition and my issues with it have nothing to do with the books, but it's like a bunch of pretty wallpapers in succession, at worst I'll watch this for the comedy value like true blood. As a not-that-much of a specific Tolkien fan I like it pretty well. Since I've seem the last two episode, I'm finding myself really looking forward Friday now with an actual "C'mon, get here. I want to see what happens next!" that I don't really feel for She-Hulk or Star Trek: Lower Decks even though I like them as well.
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Sep 6, 2022 20:18
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Elentor posted:I made a huge nerdy effortpost in this thread but it wasn't complaining about the show. I do think the show is sort of weird and has a weird pacing and exposition and my issues with it have nothing to do with the books, but it's like a bunch of pretty wallpapers in succession, at worst I'll watch this for the comedy value like true blood. I'll quote this post because it did not get enough love: Data Graham posted:It's all just kind of a weird framing for a show that by necessity needs to have weak, humble, flawed POV characters so they can grow and develop, but the Silmarillion and back-nine Legendarium are by their nature full of lordly world-striding personages whose very glances move mountains from the moment we first hear about them. Making a direct port of this portion of the Silmarillion would have basically been impossible, and would have made a boring as gently caress tv show with dizzying timelines and a cast of characters larger than any show ever. In order to make this a tv show they had to make big changes. I'm happy with the ones I've seen so far, and I really love that they've added a bit of mystery even for Tolkien dorks like myself.
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Sep 6, 2022 20:27
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:Making a direct port of this portion of the Silmarillion would have basically been impossible, and would have made a boring as gently caress tv show with dizzying timelines and a cast of characters larger than any show ever. In order to make this a tv show they had to make big changes. I'm happy with the ones I've seen so far, and I really love that they've added a bit of mystery even for Tolkien dorks like myself. I feel like the only way you could really adapt (parts of) the Silmarillion would be as a hideously expensive opera with super elaborate costumes and some kind of gimmick stage. For the show, it felt like less of an issue in the second episode, but the dialogue in the first episode felt really bad to me.
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Sep 6, 2022 20:46
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Randarkman posted:I feel like the only way you could really adapt (parts of) the Silmarillion would be as a hideously expensive opera with super elaborate costumes and some kind of gimmick stage. I mean the LOTR musical was basically that - a Silmarillion production would be on a whole other level. (It did have one really fun Hobbit number though).
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Sep 6, 2022 20:47
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An adaptation of the Silmarillion only works if you adapt individual threads from the story to work as your primary narrative. You could certainly make a show about the Children of Hurin, of Beren and Luthien, or even a spanning epic following the Sons of Fëanor. But you need to focus on one area, because otherwise you'll get bogged down in minutiae. Making a show about The Silmarillion in full would be like trying to make a show about the entirety of World War 1 with a logical beginning middle and end. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Sep 6, 2022 |
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Sep 6, 2022 20:51
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I think the only possible way to make a faithful adaptation of the Silmarillion would be as a very long opera a la Wagner’s Ring Cycle. Which would own, but have little mainstream appeal As a drama nerd and professional technical artist, I’ll always maintain that stage can pull off a lot of “special effects” that CG VFX will always struggle with by virtue of the unspoken agreement the audience makes to fill in the gaps with their own imagination. this, however, is done in exchange for being able to see actual flesh and blood humans perform the story in the same room. The audience will seldom enter into such an agreement for a prerecorded performance Xibanya fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Sep 6, 2022 |
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Sep 6, 2022 21:06
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I think this is the prove it show for amazon and the estate. If they do this well and it does well I'm pretty sure all the complaints and rights will be in different off shooting shows like how Game of Thrones has spin off after spin off after spin off.
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Sep 6, 2022 21:06
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I never thought upsetting somebody in TVIV calling them a dork would make them 100% not mad enough to get me a new avatar over a post I did not make. Goons I guess.
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Sep 6, 2022 21:07
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I'm a moderate tolkien nerd by the standards of the internet(serious tolkien nerd by the standards of people who have lives) and I liked the show. Super pretty, good action, characters were engaging. Galadriel actress is very good.
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Sep 6, 2022 21:08
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Xibanya posted:I think the only possible way to make a faithful adaptation of the Silmarillion would be as a very long opera a la Wagner’s Ring Cycle. Which would own, but have little mainstream appeal I feel like that would be perfectly in character for Silmarillion though. It should be obscure and niche. poo poo, have all the singing be in high elvish also. And like I think you are also saying, make it a proper opera, no regular dialogue or talk-singing. Do the creation of the world as just God directing all the Valar to sing or however it goes and Melkor trying to do his own thing, literally creating disharmony.
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Sep 6, 2022 21:15
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Randarkman posted:I feel like that would be perfectly in character for Silmarillion though. It should be obscure and niche. poo poo, have all the singing be in high elvish also. And like I think you are also saying, make it a proper opera, no regular dialogue or talk-singing. Do the creation of the world as just God directing all the Valar to sing or however it goes and Melkor trying to do his own thing, literally creating disharmony. Like I said I’d totally go see it. If it was like an annual festival the way The Ring Cycle often is I’d be all over that poo poo. However it wouldn’t make all the money so is unlikely to ever be made given how expensive the rights would be
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Sep 6, 2022 21:18
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I'm not in a great place right now so I'm going to touch that hot iron: I am actually disappointed that they cast black actors as elves or Numenoreans or whatever (still haven't really watched either episode all the way through) because it's a tic in American media that bugs me. There are actually people who we know are black and brown whose story appears in the appendices, living near Mr. Black Elf that everybody got so mad/horny about. They're the Haradrim, and they have an interesting story in the 2nd age as people who are living with an increasingly hostile Mordor to their northeast and an increasingly hostile Numenor on their northwest and are not strong enough to fight either of them. They end up having the Numenorian colony of Umbar founded on their doorstep, where the Numenoreans extract tribute and eventually slaves that they sacrifice to Morgoth as Sauron corrupts them. Then you have the people of Khand, who are pretty much the same people as the Southlands guys? who are supposed to be dark-skinned too. I don't know as much about them, but they end up more under Sauron's thumb than the Haradrim. So Arondir(?) and his human girlfriend are kind of race-swapped I guess? So you actually have your pick of black or brown characters, and a story that explains why they are so hostile to Numenor and its successor kingdoms in Arnor, Gondor, and Umbar, and serious peril and political quandaries that they will encounter, plus a good perspective on the fall of Numenor as it appeared to the common human of Middle-Earth. This is a pretty annoying American trope in my opinion where you have stuff like Bridgerton or Hamilton that instead of actually telling stories about black or brown people you insert them into white roles in casting instead. Like there are a million interesting stories to tell about black people in the early 19th century but none of them are about attending gentry balls in regency England. Retelling the American revolution with a black Lafayette is a lot more marketable and tame than the Haitian revolution with Toussaint Louverture at the center, and doing the former instead of the latter means the actual black revolutionaries' stories are not being told. And that's not great? I get that people like to see themselves represented in media and it is an American production so of course you're going to have a range of American actors, but by doing a story about the rise of Mordor and the fall of Numenor and skipping the black and brown characters who actually live there and have to deal with Sauron and evil Numenorian colonialists you're missing an interesting story and also a connection to the movies where the guys from Harad are extremely mad about Gondor for unknown reasons. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Sep 6, 2022 |
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Sep 6, 2022 22:08
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That sure is a post alright
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Sep 6, 2022 22:19
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WoodrowSkillson posted:black speech plays in the background more than once during the stranger scenes. In the subtitles he was noted to be speaking Maia. IIRC Sauron did speak that but so did Gandalf.
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Sep 6, 2022 22:21
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Sorry my mind is kinda in a state of shock right now that post cannot be real please tell me that's from reddit or some other weird place that cannot be your actual opinion
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Sep 6, 2022 22:22
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We call tell black and brown and indigenous stories, but also we can cast those actors into roles like these in a fantasy show. You can do both things. There's zero reason that elves have to all be white. There's zero reason that dwarves or hobbits have to be. Less than zero, as harfoots are canonically brown.
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Sep 6, 2022 22:23
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Asema posted:I never thought upsetting somebody in TVIV calling them a dork would make them 100% not mad enough to get me a new avatar over a post I did not make. Happens weirdly regularly now. TVIV dorks are like fine china plates, extremely fragile and worth lots of money, apparently 
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Sep 6, 2022 22:26
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Infinite Karma posted:The 'rights' arbitrage is so bizarre in modern filmmaking. "We want to adapt the Silmarillion, let's negotiate for film/TV rights." "$300 million." "Jeez, that's a lot, how about we painstakingly go through every bit of the estate and have you say yes/no to which parts we can use ahead of time, knowing that it won't include the actual LotR trilogy?" "Perfect, $250 million if you want to do that."  Rights Wars are always so confusing and so lovely for art.
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Sep 6, 2022 22:27
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 FAKE Nerds!
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Sep 6, 2022 22:39
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:FAKE Nerds!
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Sep 6, 2022 22:48
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Jesus I hate people so much
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Sep 6, 2022 22:50
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It's me, I'm the guy who cares about youtube click bait and imdb review scores.
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Sep 6, 2022 22:51
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